Comments on: Plenty of Nuthin’

By: Dan M

Dan M — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:17:34 +0000

48. brockdc, again, you can't look at this deal in isolation. Before this deal was dead (which it officially is) I'm sure the Yanks were looking at getting another outfielder to play right, like Pena or Huff. They wouldn't just make this one deal and leave it at that.

By: Simone

Simone — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:03:34 +0000

47. brockdc,
I just don't see anything way of getting back the bunch of players that the Yankees need to make the playoffs without trading the young players that the other teams covet. Maybe Cashman can be more creative, but it is better that Sheffield goes than Cano or Wang.

By: brockdc

brockdc — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:24:47 +0000

46. Simone,

Sorry, but I disagree. Our offense is already butt terrible at hitting with runners in scoring position - which is a key reason why we're losing so many close games. Sheff is the best clutch hitter on a team that includes A-Rod and Jeter. He is intimidating to opposing pitchers and gives this team an edge. He is old, but, at 32, Cameron's career has most likely leveled off.

And then...AND THEN...who plays right? I'm all for improving this team, but robbing Peter to pay Paul won't do.

By: Simone

Simone — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:44:06 +0000

45. I understand the reluctance to part with Sheffield and his bat will be tough to lose, but the Yankees aren't making the playoffs with the team as it formulated so they need to make a move in addition to hoping that the starters pitch better. Right now Sheffield is the only real chip of value that they have to trade and now that Matsui and Jorge's bats have woken up and Giambi is chipping in, the offense will be able to withstand losing Sheffield.

By: Dan M

Dan M — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:23:37 +0000

44. As for RF, I'd bet that if the Yanks did trade Sheff for Cameron, they'd also try to get Aubry Huff (who's definitely leaving TB this summer). And, remember, all I meant was to offer reasons why they would "contemplate" making the trade - not why they should actually pull the trigger.

By: Dan M

Dan M — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:16:38 +0000

43. Correct, no one is going. This is "I need concessions and tax breaks from the city" George, and he doesn't want to blow it by being "Insane" George again.

By: uburoisc

uburoisc — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:12:04 +0000

42. Neither.

By: Beth

Beth — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:57:10 +0000

41. So, in seriousness, who's getting canned? Torre or Cashman? What's the over / under on the date?

By: uburoisc

uburoisc — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:49:07 +0000

40. Trading Sheff for Cameron and prospects is a bad deal, in my opinion. I'm fine with Bernie, Mat, and Sheff to close the season. Tweak till the end and then reload if necessary; we're still in this (amazingly) and a couple changes might make the difference: Woemack out, Bernie in LF, Giambi hitting again, RJ hitting his stride, Brown showing up, etc. I think the thing that really hurts this team is men left on base and some really bad pitching IQ.

By: jonm

jonm — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:35:47 +0000

39. Fred Vincy,

The comparison that you make with the Henderson deal is an outstanding one. The rumored player included with Cameron is Cairo and he's a spare part -- 3 win shares the rest of the year tops. The only other Met who I might take is Heilman who could go into the rotation, but even that strikes me as a risk.

By: tommyl

tommyl — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:32:55 +0000

38. Something I'm a bit confused about with this proposed trade is that you are trading a RF for a CF. Who do they anticipate playing everyday RF if Sheff goes? Surely not Sierra/Womack? That leaves either Crosby or Reese and I'd rather my OF be Matsui, Crosby, Sheff.

I still don't see why they don't just play Crosby in CF. He has to be better offensively than Womack and he can field relatively well.

Its refreshing though to at least see them not offering up prospects left and right as they do in most years. Most hope inducing comment of the day was by Swindell, saying he would be way less involved than Steinbrenner. Imagine, this payroll with Gene Michael and co. running the show...

By: Fred Vincy

Fred Vincy — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:17:58 +0000

37. Yes, but....

There has to be a way to get Womack out of the lineup without trading a Hall of Famer having a good year, even if he is 36.

For free, they could play Sheffield and Kevin Reese and it would be better than replacing Sheffield AND Womack with two Mike Camerons (combined projected annual VORP per BP 56 vs. 48). I'm not saying, of course, that Kevin Reese is the guy to save the team (though he would be an improvement over Womack), but giving up Sheffield is giving up period.

By: Dan M

Dan M — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:07:13 +0000

36. Of course you're not going to get one player that has equal VORP to Sheffield. But you could get a package of players, whether it be Cameron plus other parts or some other package, whose combined value is equal to or greater than Sheffield's. Think of it in Win Shares terms. If you add up Cameron's WS with, hopefully, another OF's WS, and thereby remove Womack's negative WS from the equation by limiting him to a UT/PR role, you can come out on the positive side of the ledger.

By: bronxbomber7

bronxbomber7 — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:48:51 +0000

35. It's all about pitching and not getting behind just about every game. Need to shore up that bullpen and maybe find a spot starter. Take a shot on Borowski for the buulpen who's been DFA'd by the Cubs- no real risk. Danny Graves would have been better than some of what we have.

There's got to be something better out there than Stanton and Quantrill as much I appreciate what Stanton did in the past for us. Proctor & Groom & F Rod ain't too trustworthy either.

Mariano is still the best closer in baseball. Gordon is still pretty reliable although he's been battling. Sturtze maybe a bit less reliable. That's all we got right now - 3 guys.

By: Fred Vincy

Fred Vincy — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:35:46 +0000

34. If the point were to give up on this year and trade Sheff for good prospects, that would be defensible. But, if we are still trying to make the playoffs this year, as we clearly are (and should be, since for all its flaws the team still has a fair shot at the wild card), there is no way in this world to get back anything like Sheff's value.

Baseball Prospectus has Sheff ranked 18th in the majors in Value Over Replacement, and you can be sure that no one like that is coming back. Winning trades concentrate value, not dissipate it.

Remember Ricky Henderson for Luis Polonia, Greg Cadaret, and Eric Plunk. That's Sheffield for Cameron and some arms -- an unmitigated disaster.

By: Larry

Larry — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:34:39 +0000

33. I'm sure a number of you already saw this, but it really can't be stressed enough how truly awful Womack has been. From the Verducci "all-bust" team article -

"OF: Tony Womack, New York Yankees. Joe Torre must want to be fired as Yankees manager. What other reason could there be for putting Womack into the lineup repeatedly? I'll say it again: Womack is the worst outfielder in 99 years. Like Guzman, he can't hit, but Womack can't field very well, either. Since May 27, Womack has one RBI, zero extra-base hits and one walk. Pathetic. For the year, he has five extra-base hits and 11 RBIs. The last time he hit a double was April 26. Give me Bubba Crosby, Bubba Smith, Bubba Gump ... anybody else."

Wow. Just, wow.

By: pmarcig

pmarcig — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:30:55 +0000

32. Fellas, I think the answers are here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=050628/yankees) if you haven’t seem them yet. Pretty funny. The scary thing is, you can’t help but think “you know, that might work.”

A highlight is this quip on Woe-mack: “Give Joe Torre a copy of the Yankee stat sheet with Tony Womack’s batting average (.239), on-base percentage (.273) and slugging percentage (.263) circled in red ink. Give Torre subtle reminder that those numbers make Womack the 790th best hitter in the majors leagues (out of 792), according to Baseball Prospectus.”

I guarantee you that I could get up there find a way to get on base 27% of the time.

By: JonathanC

JonathanC — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:21:12 +0000

31. How can you guys say you don't like this trade? You guys need a CF badly. How long are you going to watch Bernie/Womack butcher balls in CF? I watched them cost you 2 games over the weekend. And that was just this weekend! How long are you gonna to watch people go from 1st to 3rd on you?

Cam is no Sheff with the bat, that's a given. But, he has pop in his bat, can steal a base, and immediately gives you a TOP 5 CF in the American League. Also, he is great in the clubhouse, he could be the guy who's turns the Yanks from a group of superstar into a TEAM!

By: Simone

Simone — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:10:03 +0000

30. JohnnyC, you and I are on the same page right now. The Yankees aren't going to trade Sheffield for Cameron and Cairo straight up no matter what the media says. However, if the Mets hand over a couple useful prospects that would definitely work. Like i said before, the Marlins are also a possible landing spot for Sheffield.

People keep forgetting that Sheffield is 36 years old. While Sheffield comes from a family of great athletes and I would think that he has another good couple of years, he may fall over the cliff and be done by next year. Without a doubt, Sheffield will be scrambling for DH time with Giambi next season and his defense will be even worse. Now is the ideal time to trade him, while the Yankees can still get something of value in return.

By: JohnnyC

JohnnyC — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:54:23 +0000

29. You can't just send a ML veteran down unless its for an injury rehab. You have to get his permission. Why would even Tony Womack agree to go to AAA? He'd just as soon ask to be traded or released. Plus, the idea of George paying tens of millions to guys playing for Columbus doesn't strike me as being remotely realistic.