Comments on: Oh, Whatta Relief it is http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Thu, 20 Jun 2013 02:14:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: David http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50892 David Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:29:20 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50892 <p><b><a name="23" rel="nofollow"></a>23.</b>  Over the last 30 days, Cano's OBP is .377, which justifies batting him 2nd. </p> <p> I think Giambi's huge OBP should be moved up in the batting order, despite his slowness. Even leadoff wouldn't be ridiculous. </p> 23.  Over the last 30 days, Cano’s OBP is .377, which justifies batting him 2nd.

I think Giambi’s huge OBP should be moved up in the batting order, despite his slowness. Even leadoff wouldn’t be ridiculous.

]]> By: aboveavg http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50891 aboveavg Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:01:04 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50891 <p><b><a name="22" rel="nofollow"></a>22.</b>  I agree that Cano should learn to bunt but Matsui should never, EVER be asked to lay one down even if he had the ability to do so. </p> <p> And bunting is not easy, especially learning to place and/or deaden the ball. </p> 22.  I agree that Cano should learn to bunt but Matsui should never, EVER be asked to lay one down even if he had the ability to do so.

And bunting is not easy, especially learning to place and/or deaden the ball.

]]> By: Ben http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50890 Ben Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:18:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50890 <p><b><a name="21" rel="nofollow"></a>21.</b>  As for teachers, since Mariano is supposed to be the best centerfielder on the team, he's probably the best bunter too. Give him a bat and let him instill the almighty into Cano. </p> 21.  As for teachers, since Mariano is supposed to be the best centerfielder on the team, he’s probably the best bunter too. Give him a bat and let him instill the almighty into Cano.

]]> By: Ben http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50889 Ben Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:17:30 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50889 <p><b><a name="20" rel="nofollow"></a>20.</b>  It's a good point that there might not be the best teacher on the Yanks staff. I guess it just speaks to the kind of players they have in the organization right now that some of those scrappy fundamentals are just overlooked. Maybe there is a statistical reason, a la Moneyball's stolen base analysis, that bunting isn't stressed. It just seems to me that the Yanks success, or the Angels in 2002, or the Marlins in 2003, was based on so-called manufacturing of runs. </p> <p> I just like watching a team capable of playing small-ball. </p> 20.  It’s a good point that there might not be the best teacher on the Yanks staff. I guess it just speaks to the kind of players they have in the organization right now that some of those scrappy fundamentals are just overlooked. Maybe there is a statistical reason, a la Moneyball’s stolen base analysis, that bunting isn’t stressed. It just seems to me that the Yanks success, or the Angels in 2002, or the Marlins in 2003, was based on so-called manufacturing of runs.

I just like watching a team capable of playing small-ball.

]]> By: Oscar Azocar http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50888 Oscar Azocar Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:29:12 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50888 <p><b><a name="19" rel="nofollow"></a>19.</b>  If nobody on the coaching staff can do it, then maybe Jeter can give bunting lessons? </p> 19.  If nobody on the coaching staff can do it, then maybe Jeter can give bunting lessons?

]]> By: JohnnyC http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50887 JohnnyC Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:18:22 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50887 <p><b><a name="18" rel="nofollow"></a>18.</b>  Who do you suggest they practice bunting with? Sojo? Roy White? Joe Torre? Usually, when taking lessons, someone has to give them. Anyone have the Scooter's home number? </p> 18.  Who do you suggest they practice bunting with? Sojo? Roy White? Joe Torre? Usually, when taking lessons, someone has to give them. Anyone have the Scooter’s home number?

]]> By: Ben http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50886 Ben Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:15:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50886 <p><b><a name="17" rel="nofollow"></a>17.</b>  Anybody here have any real baseball playing experience? I was just wondering how hard it is to become a decent/good bunter? It may be more of a craft than I understand, but it seems pretty easy as compared to hitting HRs. If it's just a matter of practice, why isn't someone like Cano, or bernie, or Matsui practicing the shit out of the bunt. In my recollection, Girardi, Brosius, Paulie-O, Knoblach were all capable of laying out down if necessary. Any ideas on this? </p> 17.  Anybody here have any real baseball playing experience? I was just wondering how hard it is to become a decent/good bunter? It may be more of a craft than I understand, but it seems pretty easy as compared to hitting HRs. If it’s just a matter of practice, why isn’t someone like Cano, or bernie, or Matsui practicing the shit out of the bunt. In my recollection, Girardi, Brosius, Paulie-O, Knoblach were all capable of laying out down if necessary. Any ideas on this?

]]> By: dtrain http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50885 dtrain Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:43:14 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50885 <p><b><a name="16" rel="nofollow"></a>16.</b>  Jedi,</p> <p> I understand that the 2-hole is not a power spot. But I also know, as singledd points out too, that Bernie hits into a ton of DPs, as he has throughout his career. I also don't recall him being a particularly good bunter, and while he may still make contact, his low batting average means that he's making outs most of the time he does make contact. True, some of those outs could be productive outs when he moves a runner over, but a lot of them are going to be pop-ups and GIDPs. </p> <p> Bottom line, Bernie's not going to help very much no matter where he hits at this stage of his career, so I think the best move is to keep him at the bottom of the order to minimize his number of at bats. </p> 16.  Jedi,

I understand that the 2-hole is not a power spot. But I also know, as singledd points out too, that Bernie hits into a ton of DPs, as he has throughout his career. I also don’t recall him being a particularly good bunter, and while he may still make contact, his low batting average means that he’s making outs most of the time he does make contact. True, some of those outs could be productive outs when he moves a runner over, but a lot of them are going to be pop-ups and GIDPs.

Bottom line, Bernie’s not going to help very much no matter where he hits at this stage of his career, so I think the best move is to keep him at the bottom of the order to minimize his number of at bats.

]]> By: Clay Caviness http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50884 Clay Caviness Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:04:03 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50884 <p><b><a name="15" rel="nofollow"></a>15.</b>  Cano swings at a lot of pitches, sure, but he seems to have pretty good pitch recognition and only swings at pretty good pitches.</p> <p> He doesn't walk much, but it appears that's not due to swinging wildly and breaking balls off the plate (hi, Sori!) but instead putting a good pitch in play. </p> 15.  Cano swings at a lot of pitches, sure, but he seems to have pretty good pitch recognition and only swings at pretty good pitches.

He doesn’t walk much, but it appears that’s not due to swinging wildly and breaking balls off the plate (hi, Sori!) but instead putting a good pitch in play.

]]> By: Oscar Azocar http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50883 Oscar Azocar Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:16:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50883 <p><b><a name="14" rel="nofollow"></a>14.</b>  On a side note, I wanted to check out Cano's ability to make contact and see how bad he was. Believe it or not, Cano's actually a decent contact hitter, which is completely contradictory to his tendency to swing at everything:</p> <p> Cano: 33K, 8.6PA/K, 8.2AB/K<br /> Bernie: 34K, 9.4PA/K, 8.1AB/K<br /> Jeter: 66K, 6.8PA/K, 5.9AB/K</p> <p> The AB/K ratio is probably more relavant to analyze contact, since the PA's include other "non contact" situations such as BB, or HBP. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but Cano actually makes more contact than Jeter and just about as much contact as Bernie. </p> 14.  On a side note, I wanted to check out Cano’s ability to make contact and see how bad he was. Believe it or not, Cano’s actually a decent contact hitter, which is completely contradictory to his tendency to swing at everything:

Cano: 33K, 8.6PA/K, 8.2AB/K
Bernie: 34K, 9.4PA/K, 8.1AB/K
Jeter: 66K, 6.8PA/K, 5.9AB/K

The AB/K ratio is probably more relavant to analyze contact, since the PA’s include other “non contact” situations such as BB, or HBP. I didn’t believe it until I saw it, but Cano actually makes more contact than Jeter and just about as much contact as Bernie.

]]> By: Alex Belth http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50882 Alex Belth Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:06:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50882 <p><b><a name="13" rel="nofollow"></a>13.</b>  The A's are really something. They seem to surge in the second half each seaosn. If they make the playoffs this year, it'd be a real feather in Billy Beane's cap. Rich Harden is a really tough pitcher and I guess that kid Swisher is doing very well too. </p> 13.  The A’s are really something. They seem to surge in the second half each seaosn. If they make the playoffs this year, it’d be a real feather in Billy Beane’s cap. Rich Harden is a really tough pitcher and I guess that kid Swisher is doing very well too.

]]> By: singledd http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50881 singledd Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:03:08 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50881 <p><b><a name="12" rel="nofollow"></a>12.</b>  P.S. Anyone notice where the (dead-in-the-water) Oakland A's are in the WC standings? </p> 12.  P.S. Anyone notice where the (dead-in-the-water) Oakland A’s are in the WC standings?

]]> By: singledd http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50880 singledd Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:58:16 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50880 <p><b><a name="11" rel="nofollow"></a>11.</b>  make that less then 2 out... he he he </p> 11.  make that less then 2 out… he he he

]]> By: singledd http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50879 singledd Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50879 <p><b><a name="10" rel="nofollow"></a>10.</b>  jedi,<br /> While Bernie USED to be speedy, I don't think he is anymore (especially in CF). He has not had more then 5 SB since 2002. I don't know how slow Cano is, but my guess is he's faster then (bad knees Bernie).</p> <p> From a clinical standpoint, our 3 best HR hitters are ARod, Shef and Giambi. Therefore, we should have our best OBP guys in front of them. Since Giambi has a better OBP then Shef or ARod, he should be in front of them. That leaves us with:<br /> Jetes, Matsui, Giambi, ARod and Shef... follwed by any order. This however is not as 'even' as having Cano bat 2nd.</p> <p> While Matsui can hit HR's, he has a really nice left-field stroke when he needs a hit. Batting him second might allow him to concentrate on BA/OBP as opposed to RBI's.</p> <p> jeti... I love Bernie but he is not as reliable as he once was. He also leads the team in GIDP, although this may be a misleading percentage because it needs to be compared to how many ABs you have with less then 3 out and a man on first. It would be interesting to see:</p> <p> Jetes<br /> Matsui<br /> Shef <br /> Giambi<br /> ARod<br /> Posada<br /> Bernie<br /> Tino/Bubba<br /> Cano</p> <p> .... and while its a shame to waste some ABs for Cano, having him in front of Jetes would be nice.</p> <p> HOWEVER... it is really splitting hairs. </p> 10.  jedi,
While Bernie USED to be speedy, I don’t think he is anymore (especially in CF). He has not had more then 5 SB since 2002. I don’t know how slow Cano is, but my guess is he’s faster then (bad knees Bernie).

From a clinical standpoint, our 3 best HR hitters are ARod, Shef and Giambi. Therefore, we should have our best OBP guys in front of them. Since Giambi has a better OBP then Shef or ARod, he should be in front of them. That leaves us with:
Jetes, Matsui, Giambi, ARod and Shef… follwed by any order. This however is not as ‘even’ as having Cano bat 2nd.

While Matsui can hit HR’s, he has a really nice left-field stroke when he needs a hit. Batting him second might allow him to concentrate on BA/OBP as opposed to RBI’s.

jeti… I love Bernie but he is not as reliable as he once was. He also leads the team in GIDP, although this may be a misleading percentage because it needs to be compared to how many ABs you have with less then 3 out and a man on first. It would be interesting to see:

Jetes
Matsui
Shef
Giambi
ARod
Posada
Bernie
Tino/Bubba
Cano

…. and while its a shame to waste some ABs for Cano, having him in front of Jetes would be nice.

HOWEVER… it is really splitting hairs.

]]> By: jedi http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50878 jedi Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:13:28 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50878 <p><b><a name="9" rel="nofollow"></a>9.</b>  dtrain,</p> <p> bernie is a speedy contact hitter and puts the ball in play. But the whole point is to move jeter over and work the count, which cano has trouble doing. I don't think we should even have this convo if you think the second spot is made for a HR typical hitter. If anything, ideal hitters for the 2nd spot should be jeter and bernie, who represent contact and speed. Cano still needs to learn what "contact" means in the big lead level and I don't think youll earn any praise if you rebute he is a speedy 2b. Guy is slow as shit. </p> 9.  dtrain,

bernie is a speedy contact hitter and puts the ball in play. But the whole point is to move jeter over and work the count, which cano has trouble doing. I don’t think we should even have this convo if you think the second spot is made for a HR typical hitter. If anything, ideal hitters for the 2nd spot should be jeter and bernie, who represent contact and speed. Cano still needs to learn what “contact” means in the big lead level and I don’t think youll earn any praise if you rebute he is a speedy 2b. Guy is slow as shit.

]]> By: ChrisS http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50877 ChrisS Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:03:49 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50877 <p><b><a name="8" rel="nofollow"></a>8.</b>  I was watching the Kevin Brown game the other night at the bar, and the D-Backs game was on another TV. As I watched Brown give up that 3-run bomb to Vlad, I turned my head just in time to see Brad Halsey retire the side on about 4 pitches.</p> <p> Not relevant really to this thread, but it hurt a little to watch. </p> 8.  I was watching the Kevin Brown game the other night at the bar, and the D-Backs game was on another TV. As I watched Brown give up that 3-run bomb to Vlad, I turned my head just in time to see Brad Halsey retire the side on about 4 pitches.

Not relevant really to this thread, but it hurt a little to watch.

]]> By: dtrain http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50876 dtrain Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:49:27 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50876 <p><b><a name="7" rel="nofollow"></a>7.</b>  Jedi,</p> <p> I don't think it makes sense to bat Bernie 2nd. He's giving us nothing, why would you want to maximize his number of at bats? It's a damn shame that with a $200M payroll, his two-forty-something average and 6 HRs are the best we can send out there in the DH spot. </p> 7.  Jedi,

I don’t think it makes sense to bat Bernie 2nd. He’s giving us nothing, why would you want to maximize his number of at bats? It’s a damn shame that with a $200M payroll, his two-forty-something average and 6 HRs are the best we can send out there in the DH spot.

]]> By: Alex Belth http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50875 Alex Belth Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:25:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50875 <p><b><a name="6" rel="nofollow"></a>6.</b>  I think in theory Giambi batting in front of Rodriguez makes some sense, but I think his OBP is tempered by his base running. I don't really pretend to know much about this, but my guess is that he might clog the bases putting him in front of a good base runner like Rodriguez. But again, I'm not really sure. I wouldn't mind seeing Matsui bat second, Giambi fifth, and moving Cano. But right now, the line-up doesn't seem to be a real problem to me. </p> 6.  I think in theory Giambi batting in front of Rodriguez makes some sense, but I think his OBP is tempered by his base running. I don’t really pretend to know much about this, but my guess is that he might clog the bases putting him in front of a good base runner like Rodriguez. But again, I’m not really sure. I wouldn’t mind seeing Matsui bat second, Giambi fifth, and moving Cano. But right now, the line-up doesn’t seem to be a real problem to me.

]]> By: JohnnyC http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50874 JohnnyC Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:14:01 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50874 <p><b><a name="5" rel="nofollow"></a>5.</b>  Amen, Clay, but the team will have to win in spite of Torre's bizarre moves. That's just the way it is. Hopefully, they have enough stomach to do it. BTW, if Graman had been moved to the pen to be molded into a LOOGY, why does Torre refer to him and use him as the long man out of the pen? Methinks Torre is jonesin' for a Ron Villone or Eddie Guardado...so that he and Mel can turn him into every other lefty reliever who's crossed paths with them in the last 4 years. I love the way Joe communicates with his GM. </p> 5.  Amen, Clay, but the team will have to win in spite of Torre’s bizarre moves. That’s just the way it is. Hopefully, they have enough stomach to do it. BTW, if Graman had been moved to the pen to be molded into a LOOGY, why does Torre refer to him and use him as the long man out of the pen? Methinks Torre is jonesin’ for a Ron Villone or Eddie Guardado…so that he and Mel can turn him into every other lefty reliever who’s crossed paths with them in the last 4 years. I love the way Joe communicates with his GM.

]]> By: Clay Caviness http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50873 Clay Caviness Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:07:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2005/07/25/oh-whatta-relief-it-is/#comment-50873 <p><b><a name="4" rel="nofollow"></a>4.</b>  Yes, it was a successful road trip, all-in-all, but I think with some better bullpen management by Torre we would have had a good shot at 7-4 or 8-3. </p> 4.  Yes, it was a successful road trip, all-in-all, but I think with some better bullpen management by Torre we would have had a good shot at 7-4 or 8-3.

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