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	<title>Comments on: Observations From Cooperstown&#8211;Swisher, Cano, McLain, and Tresh</title>
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	<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/</link>
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		<title>By: JL25and3</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64090</link>
		<dc:creator>JL25and3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64090</guid>
		<description>Hudson&#039;s 2008 season ended with wrist surgery.  That&#039;s a big warning flag to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hudson&#8217;s 2008 season ended with wrist surgery.  That&#8217;s a big warning flag to me.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64089</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64089</guid>
		<description>Tokyo,

Is it too early to give up Cano? Probably.  Is it *wayyy* too early? I&#039;m not sure I agree with that assessment.  His offensive numbers have declined three consecutive years and he&#039;s entering into his age 26 season.  Yeah, maybe he gets better, but we may very well have seen the best of Cano already.  And whatever he does, within a couple of years he will already begin to enter the years typically associated with decline phase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tokyo,</p>
<p>Is it too early to give up Cano? Probably.  Is it *wayyy* too early? I&#8217;m not sure I agree with that assessment.  His offensive numbers have declined three consecutive years and he&#8217;s entering into his age 26 season.  Yeah, maybe he gets better, but we may very well have seen the best of Cano already.  And whatever he does, within a couple of years he will already begin to enter the years typically associated with decline phase.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64088</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64088</guid>
		<description>OPS+ takes into account home ballpark, so Kemp&#039;s 109+ in Dodger Stadium *should* be comparable to Cano&#039;s in Yankee Stadium. Plus, Cano&#039;s career numbers have been much better on the road (.817 OPS)  than at the Stadium (.788 OPS).  So, he has not really benefitted from playing at YS.

All this is to say, you&#039;re right--Cano is probably a more valuable commodity than Kemp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OPS+ takes into account home ballpark, so Kemp&#8217;s 109+ in Dodger Stadium *should* be comparable to Cano&#8217;s in Yankee Stadium. Plus, Cano&#8217;s career numbers have been much better on the road (.817 OPS)  than at the Stadium (.788 OPS).  So, he has not really benefitted from playing at YS.</p>
<p>All this is to say, you&#8217;re right&#8211;Cano is probably a more valuable commodity than Kemp.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Empire</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64087</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Empire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64087</guid>
		<description>Why sell Cano low though?  If the Yanks had traded Cano after 2007 maybe they could have gotten Matt Kemp AND Billingsley.  I&#039;d prefer to stay the course with him and have the new coach give him the red-ass everyday.  Unless Cano was juiced to the gills from 2005-2007 and got off the juice in 2008 then I&#039;d gamble on a rebound season for 2009.

We also might want to consider that Cano is a second baseman with a lifetime 109 OPS+ and Kemp is an outfielder with a lifetime 109 OPS+  Granted, Kemp plays in Dodger Stadium (more of a pitcher&#039;s park) and Cano was a lefty in Yankee Stadium, but considering the leagues they&#039;re in this maybe the stats are a wash.  Outfielders with those numbers are in larger supply than second basemen with those numbers.

Still I have to admit that I really like Kemp, who is also a couple of years younger than Cano.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why sell Cano low though?  If the Yanks had traded Cano after 2007 maybe they could have gotten Matt Kemp AND Billingsley.  I&#8217;d prefer to stay the course with him and have the new coach give him the red-ass everyday.  Unless Cano was juiced to the gills from 2005-2007 and got off the juice in 2008 then I&#8217;d gamble on a rebound season for 2009.</p>
<p>We also might want to consider that Cano is a second baseman with a lifetime 109 OPS+ and Kemp is an outfielder with a lifetime 109 OPS+  Granted, Kemp plays in Dodger Stadium (more of a pitcher&#8217;s park) and Cano was a lefty in Yankee Stadium, but considering the leagues they&#8217;re in this maybe the stats are a wash.  Outfielders with those numbers are in larger supply than second basemen with those numbers.</p>
<p>Still I have to admit that I really like Kemp, who is also a couple of years younger than Cano.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64086</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64086</guid>
		<description>isn&#039;t it still wayyy too early to give up on Cano??

I&#039;m with Mattpat11..if they sign AJ it will be Pavano-lite...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t it still wayyy too early to give up on Cano??</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Mattpat11..if they sign AJ it will be Pavano-lite&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: RollingWave</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64085</link>
		<dc:creator>RollingWave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64085</guid>
		<description>O-dog&#039;s career outside of Chase field has been pretty mediocare at best. one can look at his blue Jay&#039;s day&#039;s stats or his road stats in his D-back times and see the problem . for those wanting him, I&#039;m fairly sure your hoping for the 3 strait season of .800-.810 ish OPS version over the last 3 year... but with if his true talent level is closer to the .710-.770 version of his Blue Jay&#039;s days? given that he&#039;s also comming off a pretty serious injury and is entering his age 31 season and most likely seeking 3 year+ deals, i&#039;m perplaxed on why so much backing for him. he&#039;s a good upgrade if say... your stuck with Luis Castillo, a guy that could neither field nor hit nor stay healthy and is old and costing money. but clearly, that&#039;s not the case with Cano. who has shown that he could field and hit and is young on a affordable contract, albeit often showing different length of frustrating non-chalant.

In another word, unless what we&#039;re getting is extremely good, (which i doubt)  then I&#039;ll pass. no one is truely untradable, but my true value of Cano is clearly not his present value, and we&#039;re not dieing to get him off the team.

Jake Peavy suffer from a similar problem as O-dog. the combination of park / league / division makes him a bit scary . SG and Hardball times both ran the number and conclud that there&#039;s a very good chance that Peavy&#039;s really not as worthwhile as he first appear .  he&#039;s still good, but even a reasonable regression would leave him only just about worth his money, and your throwing in a ton of player on top of that.

If anything, the Yanks should still sign Teix and CC, if they really need to save money, save it on the back end rotation, lock up the best players, for the lesser players there are always ways to figure something out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O-dog&#8217;s career outside of Chase field has been pretty mediocare at best. one can look at his blue Jay&#8217;s day&#8217;s stats or his road stats in his D-back times and see the problem . for those wanting him, I&#8217;m fairly sure your hoping for the 3 strait season of .800-.810 ish OPS version over the last 3 year&#8230; but with if his true talent level is closer to the .710-.770 version of his Blue Jay&#8217;s days? given that he&#8217;s also comming off a pretty serious injury and is entering his age 31 season and most likely seeking 3 year+ deals, i&#8217;m perplaxed on why so much backing for him. he&#8217;s a good upgrade if say&#8230; your stuck with Luis Castillo, a guy that could neither field nor hit nor stay healthy and is old and costing money. but clearly, that&#8217;s not the case with Cano. who has shown that he could field and hit and is young on a affordable contract, albeit often showing different length of frustrating non-chalant.</p>
<p>In another word, unless what we&#8217;re getting is extremely good, (which i doubt)  then I&#8217;ll pass. no one is truely untradable, but my true value of Cano is clearly not his present value, and we&#8217;re not dieing to get him off the team.</p>
<p>Jake Peavy suffer from a similar problem as O-dog. the combination of park / league / division makes him a bit scary . SG and Hardball times both ran the number and conclud that there&#8217;s a very good chance that Peavy&#8217;s really not as worthwhile as he first appear .  he&#8217;s still good, but even a reasonable regression would leave him only just about worth his money, and your throwing in a ton of player on top of that.</p>
<p>If anything, the Yanks should still sign Teix and CC, if they really need to save money, save it on the back end rotation, lock up the best players, for the lesser players there are always ways to figure something out.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64084</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64084</guid>
		<description>As I type this, Nate Silver is being interviewed on MSNBC&#039;s &#039;Hardball with Chris Mathews&#039;. &#039;Hardball&#039; is the best political talk show around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I type this, Nate Silver is being interviewed on MSNBC&#8217;s &#8216;Hardball with Chris Mathews&#8217;. &#8216;Hardball&#8217; is the best political talk show around.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64083</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64083</guid>
		<description>A little off topic, but I&#039;m really glad to see Tony Pena promoted to Bench Coach. While I have never given that much value to coaches, I think it&#039;s obvious that losing Larry Bowa was a bummer. Pena is a savy guy and a great catching coach. 

And while it&#039;s not mentioned, Pena could be Joe Jr&#039;s replacement if he isn&#039;t up for the job. However, with Pena as Bench Coach, I see him as being as valuable, as Zim was to Torre. I think we will see better on field managing in 2009, as I believe Girardi will consider Pena&#039;s opinion, and sometimes defer to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little off topic, but I&#8217;m really glad to see Tony Pena promoted to Bench Coach. While I have never given that much value to coaches, I think it&#8217;s obvious that losing Larry Bowa was a bummer. Pena is a savy guy and a great catching coach. </p>
<p>And while it&#8217;s not mentioned, Pena could be Joe Jr&#8217;s replacement if he isn&#8217;t up for the job. However, with Pena as Bench Coach, I see him as being as valuable, as Zim was to Torre. I think we will see better on field managing in 2009, as I believe Girardi will consider Pena&#8217;s opinion, and sometimes defer to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Markusen</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64082</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Markusen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64082</guid>
		<description>Another second base option I should have mentioned is Felipe Lopez, who had a very strong finish for the Cardinals. Originally a shortstop, he&#039;s a better fit defensively at second base and is a switch-hitter with some power. He&#039;ll be be 29 in May, so still a relatively young player.

I hope that Sabathia and these other big name free agents don&#039;t start treating these Yankee offers as if they consisted of confederate money, the way that they did in the early 1990s, when Gene Michael was desperately trying to sign people like Greg Maddux. If the Yankees do indeed offer $144 million, they should be able to expect a reply within a reasonable amount of time. If not, take the offer off the table, move on to the next free agent, and tell Sabathia&#039;s agent we&#039;ll be in touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another second base option I should have mentioned is Felipe Lopez, who had a very strong finish for the Cardinals. Originally a shortstop, he&#8217;s a better fit defensively at second base and is a switch-hitter with some power. He&#8217;ll be be 29 in May, so still a relatively young player.</p>
<p>I hope that Sabathia and these other big name free agents don&#8217;t start treating these Yankee offers as if they consisted of confederate money, the way that they did in the early 1990s, when Gene Michael was desperately trying to sign people like Greg Maddux. If the Yankees do indeed offer $144 million, they should be able to expect a reply within a reasonable amount of time. If not, take the offer off the table, move on to the next free agent, and tell Sabathia&#8217;s agent we&#8217;ll be in touch.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattpat11</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64081</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattpat11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64081</guid>
		<description>I think AJ is definitely a Yankee. And when the Yankee front office is SHOCKED when AJ Burnett only pitches in 19 games next year, I&#039;ll flip my shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think AJ is definitely a Yankee. And when the Yankee front office is SHOCKED when AJ Burnett only pitches in 19 games next year, I&#8217;ll flip my shit.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64080</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64080</guid>
		<description>This is a smart move, as the Yanks need to know FAST if they are getting CC or not. If they don&#039;t get CC, I believe they go after Tex.
But what does it mean if CC turns this offer down? I don&#039;t think anyone offers more. Is he counting on the Yanks bidding against themselves? Would he take this risk to try and squeeze another $5-$10m out of NY?

The only thing that might have been better, would be to offer $144, as a final offer, with a 48 hour window to accept. That&#039;s an AAV of $24m/yr. It&#039;s worth a few extra million to get this done THIS week. Once CC is in the bag, it makes the rest of the off-season strategy much easier.

And in reality, if the Yanks don&#039;t get CC, it gives AJ, Lowe, et al more leverage in their dealings with the Yankees, and the Yanks willultimately pay more for them they if they had CC already signed.

Also, I read somewhere that Lowe wants 5 years. Is that insane? Would any AL team offer more then 3? And even 3 seems risky. Most pundits seem to think AJ is definitely a Yankee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a smart move, as the Yanks need to know FAST if they are getting CC or not. If they don&#8217;t get CC, I believe they go after Tex.<br />
But what does it mean if CC turns this offer down? I don&#8217;t think anyone offers more. Is he counting on the Yanks bidding against themselves? Would he take this risk to try and squeeze another $5-$10m out of NY?</p>
<p>The only thing that might have been better, would be to offer $144, as a final offer, with a 48 hour window to accept. That&#8217;s an AAV of $24m/yr. It&#8217;s worth a few extra million to get this done THIS week. Once CC is in the bag, it makes the rest of the off-season strategy much easier.</p>
<p>And in reality, if the Yanks don&#8217;t get CC, it gives AJ, Lowe, et al more leverage in their dealings with the Yankees, and the Yanks willultimately pay more for them they if they had CC already signed.</p>
<p>Also, I read somewhere that Lowe wants 5 years. Is that insane? Would any AL team offer more then 3? And even 3 seems risky. Most pundits seem to think AJ is definitely a Yankee.</p>
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		<title>By: rbj</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64079</link>
		<dc:creator>rbj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64079</guid>
		<description>Apparently there is a Yankee offer to CC.  Just heard the news, IIRC the opening bid is 6 years $140 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently there is a Yankee offer to CC.  Just heard the news, IIRC the opening bid is 6 years $140 million.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveAmerica</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/14/observations-from-cooperstown-swisher-cano-mclain-and-tresh/#comment-64078</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveAmerica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4372#comment-64078</guid>
		<description>the idea of replacing Cano with the O-dog, makes me happy. I doubt it will happen but it sure is fun to ponder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the idea of replacing Cano with the O-dog, makes me happy. I doubt it will happen but it sure is fun to ponder.</p>
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