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	<title>Comments on: Musical Chairs: The Outfield and DH</title>
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	<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/</link>
	<description>Baseball Blog by Alex Belth about the Yankees</description>
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		<title>By: The Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82469</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82469</guid>
		<description>If they can&#039;t get Sabathia, they should go after Texeira for sure. Those are the two best players available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they can&#8217;t get Sabathia, they should go after Texeira for sure. Those are the two best players available.</p>
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		<title>By: Chyll Will</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82465</link>
		<dc:creator>Chyll Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[40] Yeah, I heard about that.  I give all the credit to mehmattski &gt;;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[40] Yeah, I heard about that.  I give all the credit to mehmattski &gt;;)</p>
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		<title>By: Bum Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bum Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82464</guid>
		<description>@32

Manny was average in LA. That tell me more than his unique stats playing the ugly wall in Boston.

We don&#039;t know if Jorge would be below average at 1B. He started his career at 2B. He could just as easily be average there. And that&#039;s only if he can&#039;t be a C/DH. Cause, again, over the course of a six to eight year contract for Teixieira, at least Jeter and A-Rod will need time at 1B too.

To throw back at you: &quot;And God knows what will happen to&quot; Teixeira’s &quot;fielding over the next&quot; 6-8 &quot;years&quot;. Yeah, I&#039;ll take a three year contract, with a better offensive player, than a 6-8 year contract with a 1B.

It&#039;s not that I&#039;m advocating re-signing Abreu. It&#039;s just that the best possible free agent OF (Holliday) next year is not as likely to be better than Manny or Dunn. And yet he&#039;ll require a longer contract than either of them. The Yanks should be looking at upgrading the OF this year, because next year the opportunity isn&#039;t as good. If that means carrying Damon, Nady, Matsui, Manny, and Dunn, then so be it. Damon&#039;s range is still good enough for CF. Put Dunn in LF or 1B if Swisher doesn&#039;t recover. Manny goes into RF. Matsui is the DH. And Nady is a part-timer. Now that&#039;s assuming everyone stays healthy or no one is traded. That&#039;s a big assumption. 

Then in 2010-2011, Dunn and Manny are at the corners. If Holliday can be had he takes over in RF. Gardner or Jackson in CF. That&#039;s a pretty solid group for the OF and DH slots and only Holliday would be signed past 2012. As he ages, he shifts to LF. 1B remains free for Jorge and Jeter then A-Rod and Montero. That&#039;s flexibility.

&quot;Doesn’t speed and defense have any value to you?&quot;

In it&#039;s proper place. Speed and defense only goes so far. An aging, and powerless, Carl Crawford ain&#039;t it. 


&quot;You want Dunn and Manny in the same OF?&quot;

Sure, why not? They bring in more runs with their bats than they give up with their gloves. That&#039;s much preferable to an OF of Crawford, Jackson, and Magglio as you were previously suggesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@32</p>
<p>Manny was average in LA. That tell me more than his unique stats playing the ugly wall in Boston.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know if Jorge would be below average at 1B. He started his career at 2B. He could just as easily be average there. And that&#8217;s only if he can&#8217;t be a C/DH. Cause, again, over the course of a six to eight year contract for Teixieira, at least Jeter and A-Rod will need time at 1B too.</p>
<p>To throw back at you: &#8220;And God knows what will happen to&#8221; Teixeira’s &#8220;fielding over the next&#8221; 6-8 &#8220;years&#8221;. Yeah, I&#8217;ll take a three year contract, with a better offensive player, than a 6-8 year contract with a 1B.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that I&#8217;m advocating re-signing Abreu. It&#8217;s just that the best possible free agent OF (Holliday) next year is not as likely to be better than Manny or Dunn. And yet he&#8217;ll require a longer contract than either of them. The Yanks should be looking at upgrading the OF this year, because next year the opportunity isn&#8217;t as good. If that means carrying Damon, Nady, Matsui, Manny, and Dunn, then so be it. Damon&#8217;s range is still good enough for CF. Put Dunn in LF or 1B if Swisher doesn&#8217;t recover. Manny goes into RF. Matsui is the DH. And Nady is a part-timer. Now that&#8217;s assuming everyone stays healthy or no one is traded. That&#8217;s a big assumption. </p>
<p>Then in 2010-2011, Dunn and Manny are at the corners. If Holliday can be had he takes over in RF. Gardner or Jackson in CF. That&#8217;s a pretty solid group for the OF and DH slots and only Holliday would be signed past 2012. As he ages, he shifts to LF. 1B remains free for Jorge and Jeter then A-Rod and Montero. That&#8217;s flexibility.</p>
<p>&#8220;Doesn’t speed and defense have any value to you?&#8221;</p>
<p>In it&#8217;s proper place. Speed and defense only goes so far. An aging, and powerless, Carl Crawford ain&#8217;t it. </p>
<p>&#8220;You want Dunn and Manny in the same OF?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, why not? They bring in more runs with their bats than they give up with their gloves. That&#8217;s much preferable to an OF of Crawford, Jackson, and Magglio as you were previously suggesting.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82461</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82461</guid>
		<description>[41] I agree, and he only needs 5 Wins. I did think it was interesting that at 45, the MoFo put up much better numbers then Andy.

[39] There are a number of clutchy type stats and if you look at them all, some players seem more clutch then others. Whether this is just random coincidence or there is something to it, I can&#039;t say.

That said, over his career, ARod&#039;s &#039;Clutch&#039; OPS is better then his OPS. But not last year. And there can be no doubt that ARod, and especially Giambi, failed in many, many RISP situations. When you consider how many games we scored under 4 runs, I&#039;m afraid ARod and Jason have to take a lot of responsibility. And I say this as a fan of both players.

Actually, I think CC stays on the West Coast, and hopefully, we can bribe Tex to come to NY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[41] I agree, and he only needs 5 Wins. I did think it was interesting that at 45, the MoFo put up much better numbers then Andy.</p>
<p>[39] There are a number of clutchy type stats and if you look at them all, some players seem more clutch then others. Whether this is just random coincidence or there is something to it, I can&#8217;t say.</p>
<p>That said, over his career, ARod&#8217;s &#8216;Clutch&#8217; OPS is better then his OPS. But not last year. And there can be no doubt that ARod, and especially Giambi, failed in many, many RISP situations. When you consider how many games we scored under 4 runs, I&#8217;m afraid ARod and Jason have to take a lot of responsibility. And I say this as a fan of both players.</p>
<p>Actually, I think CC stays on the West Coast, and hopefully, we can bribe Tex to come to NY.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Corcoran</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82460</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Corcoran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82460</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908&amp;cp=1#comment-82455&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OYF&lt;/a&gt;, RJ won&#039;t come back to the Bronx. He hated it here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908&#038;cp=1#comment-82455" rel="nofollow">OYF</a>, RJ won&#8217;t come back to the Bronx. He hated it here.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Fair</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82459</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Fair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82459</guid>
		<description>[37] Chyll.  Didjya see this?   http://tinyurl.com/5pfbr8
 Man.  When&#039;s p&#039;s and c&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[37] Chyll.  Didjya see this?   <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5pfbr8" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5pfbr8</a><br />
 Man.  When&#8217;s p&#8217;s and c&#8217;s?</p>
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		<title>By: The Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82458</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82458</guid>
		<description>[33] 

I&#039;ve read time and again in regards to A-Rod (and others) that they had a good OPS when I watch nearly every game and know that he was not as effective as OPS-wielding defenders suggest. I just don&#039;t think OPS is definitive as to a player&#039;s value anyway, and that&#039;s not even getting into extra-statistical &quot;intangibles&quot; (which are actually sometimes quite tangible). 

Putting that aside for a moment, my experience with A-Rod last year for most of the year was that he cherry-picked an awful lot. Before the season was down the drain, I know for instance that he hit a hell of a lot of meaningless home runs. I mean, a home run is always nice, but it&#039;s like the one he hit vs Cleveland in the 2007 ALDS game 4. It looks on paper like  it might have been meaningful but anyone watching the game knows it wasn&#039;t. Similarly, he had a lot of HRs in 08 when the Yanks were up or down by a lot.

This may be a slippery slope to bringing up that old chestnut &quot;clutch&quot;, but it is what it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[33] </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read time and again in regards to A-Rod (and others) that they had a good OPS when I watch nearly every game and know that he was not as effective as OPS-wielding defenders suggest. I just don&#8217;t think OPS is definitive as to a player&#8217;s value anyway, and that&#8217;s not even getting into extra-statistical &#8220;intangibles&#8221; (which are actually sometimes quite tangible). </p>
<p>Putting that aside for a moment, my experience with A-Rod last year for most of the year was that he cherry-picked an awful lot. Before the season was down the drain, I know for instance that he hit a hell of a lot of meaningless home runs. I mean, a home run is always nice, but it&#8217;s like the one he hit vs Cleveland in the 2007 ALDS game 4. It looks on paper like  it might have been meaningful but anyone watching the game knows it wasn&#8217;t. Similarly, he had a lot of HRs in 08 when the Yanks were up or down by a lot.</p>
<p>This may be a slippery slope to bringing up that old chestnut &#8220;clutch&#8221;, but it is what it is.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82457</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82457</guid>
		<description>[29] We&#039;ve already been through this in a previous thread.  A-Rod had a fine season, just about average or slightly above average for him. He *may* have a better season next year, when he&#039;s a year older, but I wouldn&#039;t want to rely on that.

Swisher + Nady are a most likely a downgrade offensively from Giambi 2008 + Abreu 2009; at best it&#039;s break even.

Posada (IF he can catch) is a huge improvement over Molina, though he gives back some on defense. Cano 2009  MAY be an improvement on Cano 2008, but by how much?  Frankly, I am skeptical about Cano&#039;s improvement.  He is going to be 26 next season, and his offensive performance has declined the last two years from his (so far) peak in 2006. Is he going to learn K-zone judgement at this point?  Even Long claimed that he still needed to improve in this area, and that is not a skill that is usually picked up at this stage. He&#039;ll be better this year--he can&#039;t be much worse--but I wonder if he hasn&#039;t already peaked.

And what about possible or even likely decline from Damon, Jeter, and Matsui?

I go back to my prediction at [8}: the offense is going to be trouble next year without the addition of at least one big bat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[29] We&#8217;ve already been through this in a previous thread.  A-Rod had a fine season, just about average or slightly above average for him. He *may* have a better season next year, when he&#8217;s a year older, but I wouldn&#8217;t want to rely on that.</p>
<p>Swisher + Nady are a most likely a downgrade offensively from Giambi 2008 + Abreu 2009; at best it&#8217;s break even.</p>
<p>Posada (IF he can catch) is a huge improvement over Molina, though he gives back some on defense. Cano 2009  MAY be an improvement on Cano 2008, but by how much?  Frankly, I am skeptical about Cano&#8217;s improvement.  He is going to be 26 next season, and his offensive performance has declined the last two years from his (so far) peak in 2006. Is he going to learn K-zone judgement at this point?  Even Long claimed that he still needed to improve in this area, and that is not a skill that is usually picked up at this stage. He&#8217;ll be better this year&#8211;he can&#8217;t be much worse&#8211;but I wonder if he hasn&#8217;t already peaked.</p>
<p>And what about possible or even likely decline from Damon, Jeter, and Matsui?</p>
<p>I go back to my prediction at [8}: the offense is going to be trouble next year without the addition of at least one big bat.</p>
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		<title>By: Chyll Will</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82456</link>
		<dc:creator>Chyll Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82456</guid>
		<description>[36] Meh.  I&#039;ll believe it more when Andy or his agent speak for themselves (agenstspeak aside).  Doesn&#039;t look like Andy would have anything to gain by jumping on a Dodger deal this early anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[36] Meh.  I&#8217;ll believe it more when Andy or his agent speak for themselves (agenstspeak aside).  Doesn&#8217;t look like Andy would have anything to gain by jumping on a Dodger deal this early anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/11/25/musical-chairs-the-outfield-and-dh/comment-page-1/#comment-82455</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=4908#comment-82455</guid>
		<description>From MLBTradeRumors, and 2 comments:
Pettitte Considering Dodgers
By Tim Dierkes [November 25 at 5:40pm CST]

According to Ken Rosenthal, free agent lefty Andy Pettitte spoke to Joe Torre multiple times about the possibility of signing with the Dodgers.  Rosenthal notes that Pettitte has a history of leaving when he doesn&#039;t feel wanted, and the Yankees are taking a laid-back approach toward him this winter.  Still, the Yankees remain Pettitte&#039;s first choice.  Rosenthal does not see Pettitte returning to Houston.  

&quot;Randy Johnson: 2008 ERA+ 117. 2009 salary: $8M?
Andy Pettitte: 2008 ERA+ 98. 2009 salary: $13M?
Add into the fact that Johnson is chasing win #300, would definitely only require a 1 year deal&quot;

&quot;Unit in a heart beat. Pettitte has never been as good as his reputation and Johnson is a legitimate box office draw that will easily pay for himself, which is something The Parking Lot Attendant likes.&quot;

Logical, but scary.
Will the Yankees let Andy walk AGAIN?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From MLBTradeRumors, and 2 comments:<br />
Pettitte Considering Dodgers<br />
By Tim Dierkes [November 25 at 5:40pm CST]</p>
<p>According to Ken Rosenthal, free agent lefty Andy Pettitte spoke to Joe Torre multiple times about the possibility of signing with the Dodgers.  Rosenthal notes that Pettitte has a history of leaving when he doesn&#8217;t feel wanted, and the Yankees are taking a laid-back approach toward him this winter.  Still, the Yankees remain Pettitte&#8217;s first choice.  Rosenthal does not see Pettitte returning to Houston.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Randy Johnson: 2008 ERA+ 117. 2009 salary: $8M?<br />
Andy Pettitte: 2008 ERA+ 98. 2009 salary: $13M?<br />
Add into the fact that Johnson is chasing win #300, would definitely only require a 1 year deal&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Unit in a heart beat. Pettitte has never been as good as his reputation and Johnson is a legitimate box office draw that will easily pay for himself, which is something The Parking Lot Attendant likes.&#8221;</p>
<p>Logical, but scary.<br />
Will the Yankees let Andy walk AGAIN?</p>
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