Comments on: News of the Day – 12/12/08 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Wed, 22 May 2013 19:35:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65396 williamnyy23 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:10:06 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65396 [18] I am sure I am in the minority, but I am glad they wrapped it up, especially at 82mn instead of 92mn. 16mn per year seems more in line with the market. Of course, now AJ has to stay healthy. [18] I am sure I am in the minority, but I am glad they wrapped it up, especially at 82mn instead of 92mn. 16mn per year seems more in line with the market. Of course, now AJ has to stay healthy.

]]> By: sonyahennystutu http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65395 sonyahennystutu Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:01:34 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65395 We signed AJ , 5 years 81.5mm according to mlbtraderumors.com We signed AJ , 5 years 81.5mm according to mlbtraderumors.com

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65394 williamnyy23 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:04:55 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65394 [15] I don't believe that signing Burnett would preclude the Yankees from going after Teixeira. With $86mn off the books, AJ+C.C.+Tex would be only $60-65mn, which leaves $20mn+ for raises and contract escalations. If an unnamed Yankee official states it's Burnett or Tex, that's either a bogus quote or one designed to mislead. Instead, I think the issue with Tex is more along the lines of signing him this year or another offensive player next year (e.g., Matt Holliday). [15] I don’t believe that signing Burnett would preclude the Yankees from going after Teixeira. With $86mn off the books, AJ+C.C.+Tex would be only $60-65mn, which leaves $20mn+ for raises and contract escalations.

If an unnamed Yankee official states it’s Burnett or Tex, that’s either a bogus quote or one designed to mislead.

Instead, I think the issue with Tex is more along the lines of signing him this year or another offensive player next year (e.g., Matt Holliday).

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65393 ms october Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:14:39 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65393 sorry to repeat some of what you answered in 14 william, but i took forver to submit sorry to repeat some of what you answered in 14 william, but i took forver to submit

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65392 ms october Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:13:30 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65392 i agree with your basic premise william and as i stated in comment 11, it is pretty apparent that the yanks don't want to go in the season with someone with innings limits and perhaps injury questions in joba plus one of the trio i mentioned. but again, i will go back to why 5 years from burnett. as sonyahennystutu wrote in 13, is sheets that much more a risk? maybe, as it seems there are concerns over the medical records. as william stated, and i agree with this too, it comes down to a money issue - but that seems to have another impact. some conventional wisdom seems to think that becuase of the large contracts being given to pitchers, that is precluding financial capability of getting much needed offense. is aj burnett (or whomever) worth a deal if his contract keeps the team from signing dunn or manny or someone like crawford next year (i omit tex and holliday becuase they will be so much more expensive)? i agree with your basic premise william and as i stated in comment 11, it is pretty apparent that the yanks don’t want to go in the season with someone with innings limits and perhaps injury questions in joba plus one of the trio i mentioned.
but again, i will go back to why 5 years from burnett. as sonyahennystutu wrote in 13, is sheets that much more a risk? maybe, as it seems there are concerns over the medical records.
as william stated, and i agree with this too, it comes down to a money issue – but that seems to have another impact. some conventional wisdom seems to think that becuase of the large contracts being given to pitchers, that is precluding financial capability of getting much needed offense.
is aj burnett (or whomever) worth a deal if his contract keeps the team from signing dunn or manny or someone like crawford next year (i omit tex and holliday becuase they will be so much more expensive)?

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65391 williamnyy23 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:11:19 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65391 [13] Thank you. I actually think the Yankees were leaning toward Sheets until they reviewed his medical records (talk of AJ died down and then picked up before and after that event). Also, Girardi had a quote that indicated to me that Sheets may be dealing with a lingering injury that he was planning on pitching through (the quote was something like "he was very honest about his body"). Based on those assumptions, I think the Yankees look at Burnett as someone who could miss 10-15 starts in a season, but Sheets as someone who could miss an entire season. [13] Thank you. I actually think the Yankees were leaning toward Sheets until they reviewed his medical records (talk of AJ died down and then picked up before and after that event). Also, Girardi had a quote that indicated to me that Sheets may be dealing with a lingering injury that he was planning on pitching through (the quote was something like “he was very honest about his body”). Based on those assumptions, I think the Yankees look at Burnett as someone who could miss 10-15 starts in a season, but Sheets as someone who could miss an entire season.

]]> By: sonyahennystutu http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65390 sonyahennystutu Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:53:17 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65390 As always William nice analysis [12] and I agree. I wonder though - between Sheets and AJ, which is the bigger risk for the bigger potential reward? Unless those rumors of red flags on Sheets' medical records are true, it seems like AJ for 5 years is a bigger risk than Sheets for 2 or 3, especially since it seems Sheets can be had for equal or less $ per year. As always William nice analysis [12] and I agree. I wonder though – between Sheets and AJ, which is the bigger risk for the bigger potential reward? Unless those rumors of red flags on Sheets’ medical records are true, it seems like AJ for 5 years is a bigger risk than Sheets for 2 or 3, especially since it seems Sheets can be had for equal or less $ per year.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65389 williamnyy23 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:48:46 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65389 [9] A lot of people still really like Phil Hughes. I wouldn't even think of giving up on him just yet. I think (hopefully) he still figures prominently in the Yankees long-term plans. Like or not, the absolutely minimum deal for a quality pitcher is probably three years, but four is now pretty standard (I could cite dozens of example of pitchers not even as good as AJ who have signed four year deals). Regardless of what you think about Burnett, I definitely don't think you can simply pencil in 2 youngsters. For starters, Joba and Hughes, whom I think will both eventually be in the rotation, have significant innings limits. At best, I don't think you can think of them as more than one starter. Ideally, if the Yankees sign Pettitte, his departure next season would open up the second slot for what hopefully will be the eventual progression of Joba and Phil. Because Wang and C.C. are the mainstays for at least three seasons, all scenarios require a 4th pitcher. Basically, I think it makes sense for that slot to be a high risk/reward guy like Burnett because: (1) If he stays healthy, he could be very effective; (2) if he gets hurt, the worst case is you wind up with Aceves/IPK in the rotation, which is no worse than going with that arrangement from the outset. Basically, it comes down to a money issue. Obviously, it would hurt to waste $17mn per seasons, but those are the risks you take when you are trying to be more than just a contender. [9] A lot of people still really like Phil Hughes. I wouldn’t even think of giving up on him just yet. I think (hopefully) he still figures prominently in the Yankees long-term plans.

Like or not, the absolutely minimum deal for a quality pitcher is probably three years, but four is now pretty standard (I could cite dozens of example of pitchers not even as good as AJ who have signed four year deals).

Regardless of what you think about Burnett, I definitely don’t think you can simply pencil in 2 youngsters. For starters, Joba and Hughes, whom I think will both eventually be in the rotation, have significant innings limits. At best, I don’t think you can think of them as more than one starter. Ideally, if the Yankees sign Pettitte, his departure next season would open up the second slot for what hopefully will be the eventual progression of Joba and Phil. Because Wang and C.C. are the mainstays for at least three seasons, all scenarios require a 4th pitcher. Basically, I think it makes sense for that slot to be a high risk/reward guy like Burnett because: (1) If he stays healthy, he could be very effective; (2) if he gets hurt, the worst case is you wind up with Aceves/IPK in the rotation, which is no worse than going with that arrangement from the outset.

Basically, it comes down to a money issue. Obviously, it would hurt to waste $17mn per seasons, but those are the risks you take when you are trying to be more than just a contender.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65388 ms october Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:07:56 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65388 i agree whith your overall take shaun, especially on the attempts to lower phil's value, but now that the yanks got cc - they don't have to sign someone like lowe or burnett to a long term deal. but it seems they pretty clearly do not want to start the year with any of hughes, aceves, or kennedy in the rotation - which seems to be the motivating force to get either burnett or lowe, which i guess comes back to your point that the long term deals is what the standard is. i guess i just can't get over 5 years for burnett. most reports have atl at 4 yrs - if the yanks really want him they could also go 4 but with more money. i agree whith your overall take shaun, especially on the attempts to lower phil’s value, but now that the yanks got cc – they don’t have to sign someone like lowe or burnett to a long term deal.
but it seems they pretty clearly do not want to start the year with any of hughes, aceves, or kennedy in the rotation – which seems to be the motivating force to get either burnett or lowe, which i guess comes back to your point that the long term deals is what the standard is.
i guess i just can’t get over 5 years for burnett.
most reports have atl at 4 yrs – if the yanks really want him they could also go 4 but with more money.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65387 Shaun P. Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:36:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65387 [9] Long-term deals for free agent pitchers are just the cost of doing business, unless you have a guy coming off an injury of some type (i.e., Jon Lieber way back when). Perrotto's remark suggests to me that other teams, many of which have long coveted Hughes, are spreading those kinds of remarks around to drive his value down, and thus make him more easily obtainable. He was all of 22 last year, and he sucked in his 34 innings in the majors (SMALL SAMPLE SIZE). But in his time in the minors, he's given up all of 8 home runs in 310 innings, struck out more than a batter per inning (348), and has a K:BB of almost 5:1 (77 walks). 3rd or 4th starter my ass. Fortunately Cash isn't stupid. The quotes Joel Sherman got were the most interesting to me, because the bullpen philosophy has certainly been to get guys who get Ks. [9] Long-term deals for free agent pitchers are just the cost of doing business, unless you have a guy coming off an injury of some type (i.e., Jon Lieber way back when).

Perrotto’s remark suggests to me that other teams, many of which have long coveted Hughes, are spreading those kinds of remarks around to drive his value down, and thus make him more easily obtainable. He was all of 22 last year, and he sucked in his 34 innings in the majors (SMALL SAMPLE SIZE). But in his time in the minors, he’s given up all of 8 home runs in 310 innings, struck out more than a batter per inning (348), and has a K:BB of almost 5:1 (77 walks). 3rd or 4th starter my ass. Fortunately Cash isn’t stupid.

The quotes Joel Sherman got were the most interesting to me, because the bullpen philosophy has certainly been to get guys who get Ks.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65386 ms october Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:01:50 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65386 [8] guess they have lived and learned. although before burnett opted out were they going to give him much of an extension or just more money? [6] you know the more i think of it, i am really thinking either hughes or wang is not in the long term plans. diane's quote from perrotto about hughes is obviously just one person, but i wouldn't be surprised if hughes is moved this year for a position player - especially in season if he does well in aaa. or, if the yanks let wang walk after his arb years are up. maybe i am totally off on this, but the long term deals to burnett or lowe just don't make sense. [8] guess they have lived and learned.
although before burnett opted out were they going to give him much of an extension or just more money?

[6] you know the more i think of it, i am really thinking either hughes or wang is not in the long term plans.
diane’s quote from perrotto about hughes is obviously just one person, but i wouldn’t be surprised if hughes is moved this year for a position player – especially in season if he does well in aaa.
or, if the yanks let wang walk after his arb years are up.
maybe i am totally off on this, but the long term deals to burnett or lowe just don’t make sense.

]]> By: Mattpat11 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65385 Mattpat11 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:49:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65385 [7] Its not as AJ's injury risk is radically different than it was three years ago... And Dayton Moore will be receiving a fruit basket for his quality service. [7] Its not as AJ’s injury risk is radically different than it was three years ago…

And Dayton Moore will be receiving a fruit basket for his quality service.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65384 ms october Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:41:21 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65384 [3] [4] i think the blue jays mean they wouldn't give him 5 years now. which is why they and most of us can't understand why the yanks would. matt - what did you send drayton moore for signing farns? i just hope cashman is pursuing a bat under the radar. [3] [4] i think the blue jays mean they wouldn’t give him 5 years now.
which is why they and most of us can’t understand why the yanks would.

matt – what did you send drayton moore for signing farns?

i just hope cashman is pursuing a bat under the radar.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65383 Shaun P. Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:39:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65383 You know, maybe we're looking at Burnett the wrong way. Maybe we should see his frequent DL trips as a plus, not a minus. Ideally, a team wants to get about 950 innings out of its starters: about 800 out of the first four (so an average of 200, though (broken down its probably something like 230-200-190-180), and then about 150 innings out of the 5th starter. The rotation has CC (230), Wang (200), and Joba (limited to ~140) in it right now. If the Yanks do sign two more pitchers, where does Hughes go? AAA . . . until there's an injury. Signing Burnett = time for Hughes in the majors. QED. (To be honest, I'd prefer if they signed just one more free agent starter - and a bat - and made Hughes the 5th starter, then got creative and used Aceves in a Mendoza-type role (bullpen long man/spot starter) to cover for Joba and Hughes. But if they insist on signing two free agent starters . . .) You know, maybe we’re looking at Burnett the wrong way. Maybe we should see his frequent DL trips as a plus, not a minus.

Ideally, a team wants to get about 950 innings out of its starters: about 800 out of the first four (so an average of 200, though (broken down its probably something like 230-200-190-180), and then about 150 innings out of the 5th starter.

The rotation has CC (230), Wang (200), and Joba (limited to ~140) in it right now. If the Yanks do sign two more pitchers, where does Hughes go? AAA . . . until there’s an injury. Signing Burnett = time for Hughes in the majors.

QED.

(To be honest, I’d prefer if they signed just one more free agent starter – and a bat – and made Hughes the 5th starter, then got creative and used Aceves in a Mendoza-type role (bullpen long man/spot starter) to cover for Joba and Hughes. But if they insist on signing two free agent starters . . .)

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65382 Rich Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:26:55 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65382 I wish the Yankees would use the money to sign Texeira instead of Burnett, but the value of the Canadian dollar has tanked v. the value of the US dollar since September. That's the real reason that Toronto can't compete for Burnett's services. I wish the Yankees would use the money to sign Texeira instead of Burnett, but the value of the Canadian dollar has tanked v. the value of the US dollar since September. That’s the real reason that Toronto can’t compete for Burnett’s services.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65381 williamnyy23 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:07:38 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65381 [3] I thought the same thing. Also, as things turned out, I think the Blue Jays got a pretty fair deal. They wound up paying him $9mn per season, so they basically got the short end in 2006, broke even in 2007 and came out ahead in 2008 (all based on innings). Interestingly, if Burnett does wind up being injured over the next two seasons, it would be a prefect illustration of how opt outs can help a team. In this case, the Blue Jays would save the $26mn they would have paid him over the next two season by virtue of Burnett opting out. [3] I thought the same thing. Also, as things turned out, I think the Blue Jays got a pretty fair deal. They wound up paying him $9mn per season, so they basically got the short end in 2006, broke even in 2007 and came out ahead in 2008 (all based on innings).

Interestingly, if Burnett does wind up being injured over the next two seasons, it would be a prefect illustration of how opt outs can help a team. In this case, the Blue Jays would save the $26mn they would have paid him over the next two season by virtue of Burnett opting out.

]]> By: Mattpat11 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65380 Mattpat11 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:56:32 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65380 Uhm, the Blue Jays did give him five years. Was that supposed to be a joke that went over my head? Uhm, the Blue Jays did give him five years. Was that supposed to be a joke that went over my head?

]]> By: sonyahennystutu http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65379 sonyahennystutu Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:16:18 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65379 The Pettite situation intrigues me. While I'm sure it's more nuanced than this, from my perspective the guy simply owes us. We signed him to a generous 1 year deal last year, and days later he was outed as a cheater. We stood behind him - not only organizationally but individually, with some of our most respected team leaders publicly coming out in support, and we more or less bought the excuse/apology he gave - presumably because of his consistent aw shucks god fearing good guy demeanor (and the 4 rings...) Personally I think he's a fool - both karmically and economically - if he does not take the $10mm. I agree with the quote above - in today's world, particularly given his 2nd half performance - he's certainly not worth the $10mm IMO. I want him back, but only at a price. And I still want us to get Sheets. The Pettite situation intrigues me. While I’m sure it’s more nuanced than this, from my perspective the guy simply owes us. We signed him to a generous 1 year deal last year, and days later he was outed as a cheater.

We stood behind him – not only organizationally but individually, with some of our most respected team leaders publicly coming out in support, and we more or less bought the excuse/apology he gave – presumably because of his consistent aw shucks god fearing good guy demeanor (and the 4 rings…) Personally I think he’s a fool – both karmically and economically – if he does not take the $10mm. I agree with the quote above – in today’s world, particularly given his 2nd half performance – he’s certainly not worth the $10mm IMO.

I want him back, but only at a price. And I still want us to get Sheets.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2008/12/12/news-of-the-day-121208/#comment-65378 RIYank Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:06:00 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=5726#comment-65378 I bet Dianagramr loves Ivan Nova. I bet Dianagramr loves Ivan Nova.

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