The Bronx Terminal Market? I think we are talking past each other because the Bronx Terminal Market is not my idea of commerce. or the past 30 years, the BTM has been a sea of corruuption and decay. Besides, wholesale ethnic foods are not the kind of commerce that appeals to a wide customer base. Now, the new BTM project, which boasts “18 acres of land and approximately 1 million new square feet of retail space, featuring well-known, brand-name national retailers” could very well attract Yankee fans, especially if there is favorable tax treatment.

Urban development doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It requires cooridnated investment by companies as well as inducements by municipalities.

And that was happening while the Dodgers were there. It happened while the Yankees were in the Bronx.

perhaps with greater development and infrastructure in the area, there may be expanded commerce.

I don’t know if we’re talking past each other, but there is currently plenty of opportunity for commerce available. Certainly there was with the Bronx Terminal Market, and several other shopping centers within reasonable distance of the stadium.

You may think that’s insignificant, but I am sure the hundreds of people who make a living off of them think differently.

And I’m sure the thousands who don’t think differently as well…

As for whether Yankee fans shop in the surrounding businesses around the Stadium, the answer is Yes and in large numbers. From souvenir shops to delis to bars and other service oriented establishments, thousands of fans spend money in the immediate neighborhood. Now, they don’t stroll down the the Grand Concourse to shop for clothes, but perhaps with greater development and infrastructure in the area, there may be expanded commerce. Regardless, the businesses linked to the Stadium do benefit. You may think that’s insignificant, but I am sure the hundreds of people who make a living off of them think differently.

Yes I have. Been to the site of Crosley, Nickerson, Forbes Fields, and Jarry Park, among others.

The problems those particular areas went through have little to do with the departure of the Giants and Dodgers. But I’m sure the housing currently in place serves a useful purpose.

You aren’t fully considering the situation if you think the loss of YS could easily be replaced (also, comparing YS to the Expos and Boston Braves suggests a misunderstanding of the context).

I may be misunderstanding something, but my point is that if the Yankees were to leave the Bronx tomorrow, there’d be gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments, but life will go on. New York City withstood the loss of the Giants (baseball and football), Dodgers, Jets and Giants, and we can name a bunch of other cities that have lost “major league” teams that have managed to survive.

You honestly don’t think 4mn people coming into the area on 81 dates has an economic impact?

Of course it does. But how many of them actually shop there? How many of that 4M don’t even see the nabe, funneling in and out of the subway stations or garages to their destination?

Yankee Stadium isn’t far from Concourse Village, & the 3rd Ave & Southern Blvd shopping districts. You have the courthouse, a main branch of the post office and Hostos there. Mott Haven was/is being redeveloped.

As I stated in [1], the waived tax revenue is probably just over $5mn per year. Considering that the investment would not have been made without the PILOTs, this is a small price to pay to attract over $1bn in investment into a region that definitely needs it. The alternative would have been to have the Yankees remain in the old place (at an increasing maintenance cost to the city that could have exceeded the $5mn cost) or see them leave the Bronx. I think either option would be more expensive than the $5mn revenue waiver.

As for the jobs, I think you’re wrong. While Bordsky claimed that the new Stadium will only create 15 jobs, the Yankees claim that number is 1,000. Intuitively, 15 more jobs just doesn’t make any sense when you consider the increased amenities and full-year installations. Also, it ignores the very real construction jobs that have been in place for 2+ years. According to the Yankees, construction of the new Stadium has employed 6,000 people, 25% of whom are Bronx residents. Also, over $132mn in contracts have been awarded to Bronx-based businesses. What’s more, the Yankee Stadium project is bringing improved infrastructure and increased visibility that will provide leverage to the other construction projects underway in the Bronx.

I can understand why some people would be sensitive about the notion of a profitable business feeding at the public trough, but I think most of those arguments belie a complete misunderstanding of the finances involved. The Brodskys of the world have seized on an issue that gets a lot of play, but their arguments have little substance.

[18] The Yankees are investing $1bn in the South Bronx because they could invest in the Yankees in any other part of the region. It seems as if you think “investment” must be a charitable endeavor? Unless you think the South Bronx would be better off if the Yankees moved to Manhattan or New Jersey, then their decision to stay is an investment in the area.

[19] Have you ever been the site of the former Ebbets Field? I don’t think the Flatbush area of Brooklyn has moved on successfully. The former site of the Polo Grounds probably hasn’t fared much better. I guess they could building another housing project in place of Yankee Stadium, but something tells me that wouldn’t bring prosperity to the Bronx. You aren’t fully considering the situation if you think the loss of YS could easily be replaced (also, comparing YS to the Expos and Boston Braves suggests a misunderstanding of the context).

As for the MTA station, it would not have been built without the new YS…how can I say that? Well, it has been long proposed, but is only now being built.

[21] You honestly don’t think 4mn people coming into the area on 81 dates has an economic impact? Many businesses make a disproportionate amount of revenue in a condensed time frame, so it would not be unusual if many area businesses inch toward the black thanks to those 81 home games. I would imagine that all the surrounding businesses benefit greatly from the influx of potential customers. Just do a search on the economic impact of the 1994 strike for an illustration.

Given that the Stadium is open at least 81 times a year, that should come as no surprise. I don’t think it was the case either, when the Yanks were barely drawing 2M people

Which is perfectly fine, but WRT infrastructure, I would say the former Sedgewick & Jerome-Anderson Ave lines, as well as the NY Central Putnam terminus would have served the area fine. Who knows, it’s a possibility that if the Yanks werent there, these structures would still exist?

FWIW, I remember the plans for the Metro North station being on the books in the 80′s

Maybe you are right and the South Bronx could easily replace the Yankees, but many in the community disagree.

All I have to go on is history.

Brooklyn & Manhattan may miss the Dodgers and Giants, but they’ve moved on. Boston may miss the Braves, but they moved on. Go to Montreal, and you’d never know the Expos played there. They’ve moved on (many would say while they were still there). I don’t think New York and the Yankees would be unique in this regard.

While I won’t dispute that the billion dollars invested in the South Bronx (SoBro? HA!) is a good thing, I can say with a degree of certainty that looking around the boroughs, had the Yankees moved in the 60′s – 70′s -80′s or whenever, The Bronx would’ve found something to do with that land, whether it’s housing, parkland, mixed use development, whatever

Chyll, even the restaurants in the area – except for those right across the street – don’t depend on the Stadium. It might help business sometimes, but it’s the courts and the shopping that keep them going.