am sure this has been argued to death too but..if Jim Rice goes in, how can Andre Dawson be kept out? I know the whole low-OBP thing hurts his case, but the guy had power, speed and defense..i think he belongs in…

Frankly, I think the waiting period should be ten years or more.

maybe missed it on the earlier Rickey Henderson thread but, is he a top-10 all-time player?? I would say Yes…

Red Sox signed Saito for their pen, now have three Japanese players..hope that doesn’t mean 3 times as many games on tv here! Lucky for me that Matsui is still the most popular player in Japan, despite Ichiro being much much better…should get at least 50 Yanks games on tv over the year, maybe more.

McGriff also compares favorably to Rice too. That’s the problem with Rice. He is like a flood gate. It’s really a shame.

Of course, I still think that Fred McGriff is too easily forgotten.

Ironically, I think Mattingly could be helped by the offensive explosion at the end of his career, especially because so many people will simply attribute it to steroids. Not only does absence make the heart grow fonder, but time seems to cloud the memory. Who knows…in another 8 years, people may be talking about how Donnie Baseball was a slick glove who was one of the most feared hitters in his prime. They might also talk about how his work ethic and passion for the game was in contrast to the self absorbed, juiced up players that followed. If the NY writing contingent is as successful as their Boston brethren, the campaign could work.

What hurts Mattingly even more (v. Rice) than time (which makes people forget Rice’s decline) is that the end of Mattingly’s career coincided with the offensive explosion. His numbers just look so weak when compared with McGwire and Bagwell, and even Palmiero or McGriff (134 OPS+, 493 HR).

Consider the following comparison:

Rice: 9,058 PAs; OPS+ 128; .298/.352/.502 in a hitter’s park; 8 All Star appearances; 3.15 MVP shares (1 award); 5 top-10 OPS+ finishes ( 1 first place finish)

Mattingly: 7,721 PAs; OPS+ 127; .307/.358/.471 in a pitcher’s park; 6 All Star appearances; 2.22 MVP shares (1 award); 5 top-6 OPS+ finishes (2 first place finish)

Anecdotally, Rice was voted the best hitter in the game by his peers in 1979, while Mattingly was voted the best player in the game by his peers in 1986 and 1987.

Basically, Rice and Mattingly were equally productive hitters, but Rice gets an edge for about two more seasons worth of PAs. Of course, Mattingly was a 9-time gold glover, while Rice was a bad right fielder. Also in small samples (80 PAs for Rice vs. 25 PAs for Mattingly), Mattingly was excellent in his lone post season, while Rice was very bad in two of his three post seasons.

To make a long story short, there is really no way to argue that Rice is a Hall of Famer, while Mattingly is not. It seems that 15 years has made people forget Rice’s rapid decline and flaws as a player, so I guess there is a chance that the same will take place for Mattingly.

It would be better if the HoF sought to tighten its standards, but unless the voting process is revamped, its continued dilution is inevitable.

Teixeira is joing the Yankees at the exact point Mattingly’s back stunted his career, so the comparison isn’t linear, but I don’t think you can expect Teixeira to match Mattingly’s best 6 seasons.

And I say that even though Mattingly was my most favoritist player by far growing up.

But the only player i remember the janlks hiding was ….