Comments on: First Things First

By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO

Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:02:45 +0000

[27] this could then be called the “Kirby Puckett” rule..i LOVED Kirby when he played, but he is in on emotion for sure…

am sure this has been argued to death too but..if Jim Rice goes in, how can Andre Dawson be kept out? I know the whole low-OBP thing hurts his case, but the guy had power, speed and defense..i think he belongs in…

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:53:56 +0000

[26] The reason for the five year waiting period between retirement and ballot is to allow emotions to subside, and for a player’s career to be put in proper historical context. I have no problem with more players being voted in later, so long as there is a rational basis for doing so.

Frankly, I think the waiting period should be ten years or more.

By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO

Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:47:48 +0000

[21] Oh yes, Crime Dog McGriff was a great great player..though the whole HOF argument thing gets a bit old..for me, if you aren’t in right away then you probably shouldn’t be in at all…

By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO

Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:46:11 +0000

[0] I hope Tex can hit 1/3rd as good as puffy-faced era Bonds…

maybe missed it on the earlier Rickey Henderson thread but, is he a top-10 all-time player?? I would say Yes…

Red Sox signed Saito for their pen, now have three Japanese players..hope that doesn’t mean 3 times as many games on tv here! Lucky for me that Matsui is still the most popular player in Japan, despite Ichiro being much much better…should get at least 50 Yanks games on tv over the year, maybe more.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:26:04 +0000

[22] McGriff was better than Rice, even if the MVP voters selected otherwise. His peak years were as good or slightly better, he was more consistent longer, and he put up the better (all important) counting stats.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:22:05 +0000

[22] Of course, Hernandez’ greatest obstacle is he dropped off the ballot, but I have a feeling he’ll be a popular Veteran’s committee nominee.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:21:00 +0000

[21] Yep…Hernandez is another player who I think merits inclusion if Rice is indeed Hall worthy. Hernandez is hampered by relatively low counting stats though, so his obstacle is probably greater than Mattingly. Also, he was never deemed the “best in the game”, which seems to carry weight with some voters.

McGriff also compares favorably to Rice too. That’s the problem with Rice. He is like a flood gate. It’s really a shame.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:13:58 +0000

[18][19] Maybe more advanced defensive metrics, assuming they develop, will help players like Mattingly. What about Keith Hernandez: 128 OPS+, lots of GG, five full seasons of 140+ OPS+, one MVP, one second place MVP finish.

Of course, I still think that Fred McGriff is too easily forgotten.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:13:18 +0000

[18] We can hope, but Tex doesn’t have to be better than Mattingly to be a success. While I think there is a small chance he could surpass the bar, it is a stretch to say he should.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:08:34 +0000

[17] Right…I added the pitcher’s/hitter’s park in case anyone wasn’t aware of OPS+.

Ironically, I think Mattingly could be helped by the offensive explosion at the end of his career, especially because so many people will simply attribute it to steroids. Not only does absence make the heart grow fonder, but time seems to cloud the memory. Who knows…in another 8 years, people may be talking about how Donnie Baseball was a slick glove who was one of the most feared hitters in his prime. They might also talk about how his work ethic and passion for the game was in contrast to the self absorbed, juiced up players that followed. If the NY writing contingent is as successful as their Boston brethren, the campaign could work.