Joe Torre lost credibility with me each and every time he refused to accept any accountability for his decisions, and he should have been fired after blowing a 3-0 game lead against the Red Sox in ’04. I remember countless times where he actually managed straight into the opponent’s strengths, instead of exploiting their weaknesses. And he played favorites too, all of the time, which lead to other “niceties” such as a consistently abysmal defense in the outfield because he never had the courage to climb Bernie Williams and Gary Sheffield’s asses for not hustling out there day after day. This “behavior” spilled over into the way Bobby Abreu and Robinson Cano played every day too, including last year under Girardi! It’s going to take years to get rid of all the bad habits Yankee players exhibited on a day to day basis under Torre, and we’re seeing that manifest itself now.

Let’s face facts. He was a bum with Atlanta, St. Louis, and the Mets as their manager. With the Yankees winning four titles in his first five years with acquired talent he had virtually no say on, 12 years with what amounts to as an unlimited budget, which he conveniently and personally exploited as well, ultimately, all he was best at was playing favorites, and serving as Jeter’s personal batboy and greedily trying to maintain the status quo of top dollar for mediocrity and unsuccessful campaigns! Oh, and like Dave Winfield and Derek Jeter before him, Torre created a useless charity by which he and his family can funnel monies devoid of taxation back into his and his family’s coffers! I’ve been to http://www.joetorre.org, and while I am against all forms of physical and mental abuse, Joe Torre is far from a victim and his website is worthless in terms of exhibiting any real aid to those afflicted with his cause. He got yelled at as a child! Oh noes, the trauma! I would argue that both he and his brother turned out very well despite his protests to the contrary. If we didn’t get yelled at in this country, we wouldn’t have the best military on the planet! Try getting through any boot camp without being yelled at. The truth is, you can’t! The whole idea behind the yelling is to instill a sense of urgency or seriousness to the given situation. Being yelled at also raises your heart rate to induce additional difficulty at attempting the task at hand while NOT being comfortable and contented. The underlying asset being if you can accomplish the task at hand under such duress, such productivity will become second nature, even if it’s killing another human being. Those who are best at what they do don’t rely on being comfortable all of the time for success. Reality is while playing the Red Sox at The Fens, there is no such thing as being comfortable, ever! Playing comfortably was the mantra of Joe Torre, and is precisely why he failed miserably at motivating his players throughout his tenure! I’d rather my players have a chip on their shoulder, whether real or perceived! Look how that worked in 1998 after Sandy Alomar placed a rather large boulder squarely on Mariano Rivera’s and the rest of the Yankees’ shoulders in 1997! Or are you going to try and convince me that ’98 was so great due to Joe Torre’s leadership? That’s laughable and nothing could be further from the truth. They would have destroyed any team in 1998, with Torre or without! That’s the kind of motivation they had. Playing comfortably might work at the Country Club, or at Kapalua playing golf with your buddies, but it’s a philosophy doomed to failure in MLB or other major professional sports. Playing comfortably yields no sense of urgency, no sense of consequences, and that’s why the Yankees failed to execute. When the pressure was on, they were more preoccupied with comfort than success, period. Do you think Michael Phelps was comfortable down the stretch of his 100M Butterfly race in Beijing? You would be grossly mistaken if you thought he was. He merely handled being severely uncomfortable a bit better than his fellow competitors! How about Tiger Woods’ famous U.S. Open victory last summer at Torre Pines? Are we supposed to believe that he was comfortable during that historic result over not four, but rather five days plus an additional playoff under Open conditions? Not as such… I know better!

The facts are that there aren’t any homes where anger or adversity never dwells. If you’re looking for growing up in a Donna Reed or Leave it to Beaver environment, try Hollywood! Anger is a basic human emotion we all feel when situations arise that don’t go our way. Some have learned to handle their anger without lashing out at friends, loved ones, or just plain objects, while others have not. We are not all blessed with enough money to wash all of our troubles away. I would argue that it’s these soft Joe Torre types, which are the main reasons for the ills in our culture! Funny how we never heard about all the vulgar heckling from fans, coaches, managers, and teammates during his playing days in St. Louis, or how “proper” it was for Gibson to intimidate players by throwing at heads as Torre caught him during his first couple of years there! He “survived” all of those instances without any “emotional scarring”! Honestly, I’d rather be yelled at than have 98 MPH cheese hurled at my dome! The Yankees used to pride themselves on hustle and grit and determination, and it’s their relentless method of coming after you again and again that made the Yankees historically great! RSN calls it being a “Dirt Dog”. We have no such players on the Yankees today, only a manager, who played like that every day during his career. Dirt Dogs don’t pout. That’s all Jeter, Mo, Posada, and Pettitte did last year as they called Torre consistently to bitch and moan about how Girardi wasn’t playing favorites the way “Daddy” did for 12 years! I’ll say it again. It’s going to take years to get all of the Joe Torre out of this team!

And yes, with all of those great teams during the Torre years, they could have hired anyone else in baseball and chances are they would have won MORE during those twelve years than just the four titles! We’ll never know, but they probably would not have done worse.

This is what you get when you go outside of the organization for help. Joe Torre was never a Yankee, not even when he was managing for them, and this petty bullshit “tell-all” is merely two folks on a revenge campaign because they are no longer affiliated with the team in the Bronx. Honestly, I’m surprised Tim McCarver or Don Zimmer or Mel Stottlemyre wasn’t allowed to chime in within a Forward in this book so we all can read their rehashed anti-Yankee laments as well… Carl Pavano, Ed Whitson, Hideki Irabu anyone? 1980’s Yogi? Even he, as great as he was, was not bigger than the Yankees. At least he was actually a Yankee to begin with!

I guess Torre’s days with the Dodgers and MLB in general are just about over because of that ever-present and damning “accountability thing” and he does actually need significant funds in order to maintain the Hawaiian lifestyle he greedily accepted while managing the Yankees and still enjoys today, hence the book! Here’s to one of the local volcanoes spewing forth lava straight into his living room at his Hawaiian “estate”! While Hawaii is a great place to visit, it’s truly the arrogance of man to attempt to own property on top of a volcanic mountain range in the middle of the Pacific Ocean! He probably got tired of all the yelling by fans in Florida during many of his golf games and it’s a bit more “comfortable” playing golf in the seclusion of Kapalua in Hawaii! (LOL)

How ironic he was willing to accept any and all accolades for Yankee successes during his tenure, but every time he failed miserably, we got the proverbial “That’s baseball.” excuse.

It’s pathetic and this will surely keep Clueless (and Classless) Joe out of any running for a day at the new Yankee Stadium, a posted #6 in the new Monument Park, and maybe even the HoF and deservedly so! And I’m afraid he dragged a real Yankee in Don Mattingly into all of this. If you think Donnie Baseball made a wise decision following Torre to L.A., ask his wife and sons! In fact, I can’t wait for some rookie to ask for and be given #6. It would be a fitting end to the Joe Torre era with the Yankees for someone who loathed rookies so much both as a player and as a manager!

Joe Torre was a bum before becoming the manager with the Yankees, he was a bum during his tenure in the Bronx, and he’s a bum now, desperate for still more notoriety and credit for those four titles in five years.

It’s over, it’s been over, and will remain over, no matter how many books disgruntled folks write.

I may read it, but only from the library. I would never do anything that would financially reward people for attempting to tarnish the Yankees whether deserved or not. These clowns are not larger than the game, and they are certainly not larger than the Yankees nor will they ever be!

Respectfully submitted,

PJ

What, exactly, does ‘move on’ mean in the context of discussing a hugely important period in your own life (and the life of the game)? Does it mean ‘don’t speak, don’t speak!’ (referencing ‘Bullets Over Broadway’ of course)? Why? Because the Yankees were so good to/for him? He wasn’t, to NY? They buy silence for life? When was THAT ever part of a contract? Don’t get me wrong, if Torre had chosen to say ‘I will not discuss my years in NY, I regard them as good, personal memories’ that would have been a remarkable thing to do. But I’m not sure where the OBLIGATION to do that arises.

If the book emerges as nasty and mean-spirited, we’ll all draw certain conclusions about Torre and perhaps about our own mythologizing of his virtues. That, to a degree, will be a risk he takes with a book. He’s banked a lot of goodwill over the years in the sport, and it would be a surprise to me if he spent it, even for a major royalty advance.

But I also don’t see frankness about his own judgements as to players on his team and others, as to owners and GMs, as being automatically mean or a failure to ‘get over it’ – as if telling his version is a sin to history. I’m interested in reading Joe Torre’s version of his time in the Bronx, myself and I get bored by bland sports books.

Some of this reaction, it seems to me, is a fear that Rodriguez and that mythic ‘team chemistry’ may be damaged by a manager who ought to still be HELPING the Yankees. That feels pretty fragile, for those worrying, and – if it happens – for a team of alleged adults.

I’ll wait to see the book, and will try to put the undoubtedly sensationalized clippings and reports in context. If it feels genuinely nasty or cheap, I’ll draw conclusions about Torre, which feels fair to me – and could well make me feel glum. But I don’t see any logic to treating alleged frankness as wrong before we even see it.

This feels like this winter’s version of Roger on the Hill. Something to get the juices flowing.

It’s time to move on. Give it up. Stop letting Verducci manipulate you. Stop being so jealous of the greatest player you ever were in contact with (on the field or managing). It was your job to resolve clubhouse issues and get through to all players on your team (not just DJ and Mo), not drop a player to 8th in the order and then later write a book dredging up old issues to make a buck. You are a sad man, a hack. If I were a Dodgers fan, I’d be very annoyed.

Signed,

A Yankees fan.

..and Manny Ramirez still sits unsigned…could he possibly still end up in the Bronx??

have a good one, we’ll argue about why Rush (the band, not Limbaugh though hate him too) sucked big time!

jeter should reach 1,500 runs this season. nice!

[70] No sake, just Monday!!

but, i agree w/ mattpat – i’m quite happy his baseball talent is on my team. he might be an idiot as a person, but his skill is undeniably unreal and i hope he rakes this year!

jazz tokyo – your reference numbers tonight are funny as hell! they’re all like 1 or 2 off! what’s that horace silver song – “too much sake?” !!!! ; )

I think Alex Rodriguez is a bit of a jackass. I think he’s totally concerned with making sure that everyone is talking about Alex Rodriguez. I think he’ll say and do whatever he thinks is necessary to reach that goal. So when he is all over the back page and the front page and page six, I can’t feel sorry for him. He got his wish.

That doesn’t mean I don’t want him on the team.

i have herbie’s “sextant” cd, which is before Thrust and is pretty spacey, iirc. he went under “mwandishi” at that time.

i really don’t know how much average seats are at Turner. i don’t go that often and when i do, i just don’t really pay attention to that, so i can’t remember. it’s nothing outrageous or egregious though and it’s really a lovely place to see a ballgame.

[64] the Japanese fans tend to just follow their heroes and not really get obsessed with the team..so lots of BoSox, Yanks and Mariners hats for now. If Yu Darvish ends up with Royals (fantasy, i know) they’ll buy the KC hats..this drives the Brit soccer fans here crazy as you see people here who have no idea where Middlesborough is but they’ll have a jersey of the Japanese player on the team..I think it’s fine though, the usual Brit over-reaction to complain about things is tiresome

How much are the average tickets at Turner??

Yup, Torre’s presence would have compensated for the injuries to Posada, Matsui, Wang, Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy, and the Yankees would have cruised into the playoffs for yet another first round out.

To put it in your own terms, perhaps you’re still blind by the rings.

but yeah, the States really are huge and GA is the biggest state east of the mississippi. it’s equidistant from here to drive to miami or chicago! crazy…

[60] yeah, that cancer comment was a bit much. definitely overboard…

You’ll have to be chapter president of the Banter, Southern Region. Take everyone for some real Southern food after the game! I’d start a Far-East branch but recently seen more BoSox hats since the Matsuzaka signing…

Sweet.