Comments on: Yankee Panky: Less Is Mo? http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Fri, 24 May 2013 13:30:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172478 RIYank Thu, 21 May 2009 21:58:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172478 [57] There are dues? I may be in big financial trouble. Hey, who's going to drop in to South Side Sox blog and point out that the <a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_05_21_minmlb_chamlb_1&mode=gameday" rel="nofollow">Twins really aren't very good?</a> [57] There are dues?
I may be in big financial trouble.

Hey, who’s going to drop in to South Side Sox blog and point out that the Twins really aren’t very good?

]]> By: cult of basebaal http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172477 cult of basebaal Thu, 21 May 2009 21:48:38 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172477 Hey HCE, I take back what I wrote after the game a couple of days ago, you can totally show up at the end of games and make reasonable posts, anytime you want, you totally pay your dues in the asylum before 1st pitch ... Hey HCE, I take back what I wrote after the game a couple of days ago, you can totally show up at the end of games and make reasonable posts, anytime you want, you totally pay your dues in the asylum before 1st pitch …

]]> By: SteveAmerica http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172476 SteveAmerica Thu, 21 May 2009 20:42:40 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172476 this really has to be the most inane "conversation' i've ever witnessed. And the outrage around it frickn stupefying. this really has to be the most inane “conversation’ i’ve ever witnessed. And the outrage around it frickn stupefying.

]]> By: SteveAmerica http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172475 SteveAmerica Thu, 21 May 2009 20:40:06 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172475 Brett Tomko gave up Mac's 62nd homer. Ok. That's relevant to what? Brett Tomko gave up Mac’s 62nd homer. Ok. That’s relevant to what?

]]> By: Bum Rush http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172474 Bum Rush Thu, 21 May 2009 20:34:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172474 Now "discussion" may mean different things to you guys, but throwing plain shit against the wall to see what sticks is a waste of time. Worrying about 14 versus 4 pitches, and pretending there's some significance now or in the future, is an utter waste of time. Sorry, but I believe there are facts and then there's bullshit. I've been reading a lot of bullshit lately in the comment section. Let's argue about facts, not a hypothetical riding an assumption buck naked behind a postulate. Can't be as simple as: Eight game streak! If you want to bitch there's a clear target: Angel Berroa. Now “discussion” may mean different things to you guys, but throwing plain shit against the wall to see what sticks is a waste of time. Worrying about 14 versus 4 pitches, and pretending there’s some significance now or in the future, is an utter waste of time.

Sorry, but I believe there are facts and then there’s bullshit. I’ve been reading a lot of bullshit lately in the comment section. Let’s argue about facts, not a hypothetical riding an assumption buck naked behind a postulate.

Can’t be as simple as: Eight game streak!

If you want to bitch there’s a clear target: Angel Berroa.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172473 RIYank Thu, 21 May 2009 20:31:38 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172473 I knew there must be a way to do [50] that, thanks Diane. I owe you an anagram. I'm sure you've noticed that "VERAS" = "SAVER". Irony. I owe you a better one than that. I knew there must be a way to do [50] that, thanks Diane. I owe you an anagram.

I’m sure you’ve noticed that “VERAS” = “SAVER”. Irony. I owe you a better one than that.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172472 RIYank Thu, 21 May 2009 20:27:44 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172472 [45] [49] Let's face it, we're all a bit delusional and insane when we put on our fan hats. We act and actually feel as if it was really, really important whether Nick Swisher comes out of a slump, we're crushed when Mo blows a save, we're furious at Girardi's stupid move... you have to be a little delusional, don't you? That's part of the fun. But yeah, civil, that's a huge part of it. Baiting Mattpat, contradicting williamnyy23, teasing weeping, those are some of my favorite Banter activities, but they wouldn't be fun if we stopped being, I dunno, respectful...? Civil. Something like that. Toward each other, I mean. Not toward Kyle Farnsworth. [45] [49] Let’s face it, we’re all a bit delusional and insane when we put on our fan hats. We act and actually feel as if it was really, really important whether Nick Swisher comes out of a slump, we’re crushed when Mo blows a save, we’re furious at Girardi’s stupid move… you have to be a little delusional, don’t you? That’s part of the fun.
But yeah, civil, that’s a huge part of it. Baiting Mattpat, contradicting williamnyy23, teasing weeping, those are some of my favorite Banter activities, but they wouldn’t be fun if we stopped being, I dunno, respectful…? Civil. Something like that.

Toward each other, I mean. Not toward Kyle Farnsworth.

]]> By: Diane Firstman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172471 Diane Firstman Thu, 21 May 2009 20:27:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172471 [49] "After all, we’re a community, right?" ================ Hmmm .... why do I think of THIS scene when reading that? :-) http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene%203 [49]
“After all, we’re a community, right?”
================
Hmmm …. why do I think of THIS scene when reading that? :-)

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene%203

]]> By: Diane Firstman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172470 Diane Firstman Thu, 21 May 2009 20:22:53 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172470 [47] Here's a log of every Rivera save opportunity in which he pitched more than 1 inning: http://www.bb-ref.com/play-index/shareit/T2x6 enjoy! [47]
Here’s a log of every Rivera save opportunity in which he pitched more than 1 inning:
http://www.bb-ref.com/play-index/shareit/T2x6

enjoy!

]]> By: Will Weiss http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172469 Will Weiss Thu, 21 May 2009 20:21:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172469 [45] Agreed, HCE. Too often we get caught up in trying to prove each other right and see who has better argumentative skills. I like stirring the pot, as long as well keep it civil. After all, we're a community, right? [45] Agreed, HCE. Too often we get caught up in trying to prove each other right and see who has better argumentative skills. I like stirring the pot, as long as well keep it civil. After all, we’re a community, right?

]]> By: Diane Firstman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172468 Diane Firstman Thu, 21 May 2009 20:15:56 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172468 [46] Its now 20-0 Twins (waiting to attempt PAT). [46]

Its now 20-0 Twins (waiting to attempt PAT).

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172467 RIYank Thu, 21 May 2009 20:14:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172467 [44] Can you provide some numbers? Because I just looked at Mo's Baseball Cube pitching log for 2008, and I don't see anything like what you're claiming. I looked at every appearance of more than 1.0 inning, and it's, well, it's not just impressive, it's actually Mo-like. His ERA was 0.35, he had .85 K/IP (that may be a bit below his godly norm), and his WHIP was under 0.5. I think I'd take that. [44] Can you provide some numbers? Because I just looked at Mo’s Baseball Cube pitching log for 2008, and I don’t see anything like what you’re claiming. I looked at every appearance of more than 1.0 inning, and it’s, well, it’s not just impressive, it’s actually Mo-like. His ERA was 0.35, he had .85 K/IP (that may be a bit below his godly norm), and his WHIP was under 0.5.

I think I’d take that.

]]> By: Diane Firstman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172466 Diane Firstman Thu, 21 May 2009 20:05:14 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172466 Bottom of the 6th .... Twins 16, ChiSox 0 White Sox IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA Colon 2.0 7 8 1 2 1 2 4.23 Broadway 3.1 7 6 5 2 2 0 5.06 Gobble 0.1 1 2 2 0 0 1 10.13 How fast can Peavy get to Chicago? Bottom of the 6th …. Twins 16, ChiSox 0

White Sox IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Colon 2.0 7 8 1 2 1 2 4.23
Broadway 3.1 7 6 5 2 2 0 5.06
Gobble 0.1 1 2 2 0 0 1 10.13

How fast can Peavy get to Chicago?

]]> By: Horace Clarke Era http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172465 Horace Clarke Era Thu, 21 May 2009 19:58:00 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172465 Will, I KNOW you didn't intend to stir things up, and even if you had, discussion is what this place is all about. It is a baseball chat site, and a civilized one. I draw the line, and walk away when people start using language like 'delusional' or 'insane' (!) or 'Your fingers move but no one can hear what you are saying.' It stops being a discourse right around there. It forces either amping the rhetoric the other way, or ... walking away. I did try, a couple of days ago, to make some pretty mild general points to Bum Rush, but it isn't my job, and they didn't 'take' anyhow. Maybe because it isn't my job. Will, I KNOW you didn’t intend to stir things up, and even if you had, discussion is what this place is all about. It is a baseball chat site, and a civilized one. I draw the line, and walk away when people start using language like ‘delusional’ or ‘insane’ (!) or ‘Your fingers move but no one can hear what you are saying.’

It stops being a discourse right around there. It forces either amping the rhetoric the other way, or … walking away. I did try, a couple of days ago, to make some pretty mild general points to Bum Rush, but it isn’t my job, and they didn’t ‘take’ anyhow. Maybe because it isn’t my job.

]]> By: OsRavan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172464 OsRavan Thu, 21 May 2009 19:51:35 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172464 I've been noticing for a while now that Mo isnt capable of going 2 innings anymore. You see a *noticeable* drop off in the second inning. He is still GREAT for 1 inning. But he CAN NOT GO TWO!!!!!! Even when he manages to get a 2inning save these days he is walking on tightropes. And how many of his 2 inning saves have been blown? More then I can count. Just compare his numbers in the 9th inning when its his second inning versus when its his first. The numbers speak for themselves. 1 inning he is among the best in the game. 2.... mediocre at best. And here is my problem with the people that argue that you should bring the closer in for the 8th inning if thats when the most pressure is. Let's say you are right. I'm on the fence on whether you are... but lets say you are right and statistically thats the smart thing to do. The problem is... whether it is smart or not... Girardi *cant* not bring mo out for the 9th if mo pitches in the 8th. This may be stupid. But its also the reality of the situation. There would be a media/fan riot if girardi stopped pitching mo in the 9th inning and made him the 8th inning guy. Because stupid or not, the implication would be a slight to mo because mo wouldnt be the "closer' then. So the reality of the situation is... if mo comes in for the 8th he is going to stay for the 9th. Regardless of what should happen..thats what *is* going to happen. Because to do otherwise in the modern game is to imply that mo isnt the closer anymore. So. If mo cant pitch two innings effectively anymore...but is great for one (something I believe.) And if you bring mo in for the 8th he will have to come out to pitch the 9th.... Than logic tells us the smart thing to do is NOT bring mo out in the 8th inning. Even if that is the pressure one. I’ve been noticing for a while now that Mo isnt capable of going 2 innings anymore. You see a *noticeable* drop off in the second inning. He is still GREAT for 1 inning. But he CAN NOT GO TWO!!!!!! Even when he manages to get a 2inning save these days he is walking on tightropes. And how many of his 2 inning saves have been blown? More then I can count. Just compare his numbers in the 9th inning when its his second inning versus when its his first. The numbers speak for themselves. 1 inning he is among the best in the game. 2…. mediocre at best.

And here is my problem with the people that argue that you should bring the closer in for the 8th inning if thats when the most pressure is. Let’s say you are right. I’m on the fence on whether you are… but lets say you are right and statistically thats the smart thing to do. The problem is… whether it is smart or not… Girardi *cant* not bring mo out for the 9th if mo pitches in the 8th.

This may be stupid. But its also the reality of the situation. There would be a media/fan riot if girardi stopped pitching mo in the 9th inning and made him the 8th inning guy. Because stupid or not, the implication would be a slight to mo because mo wouldnt be the “closer’ then.

So the reality of the situation is… if mo comes in for the 8th he is going to stay for the 9th. Regardless of what should happen..thats what *is* going to happen. Because to do otherwise in the modern game is to imply that mo isnt the closer anymore.

So. If mo cant pitch two innings effectively anymore…but is great for one (something I believe.) And if you bring mo in for the 8th he will have to come out to pitch the 9th….

Than logic tells us the smart thing to do is NOT bring mo out in the 8th inning. Even if that is the pressure one.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172463 RIYank Thu, 21 May 2009 19:47:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172463 [36] johnny s.l., that's approximately what I was saying in [12] is the only legit argument for leaving Mariano in the game. I didn't say I agreed, because I'm not sure the extra stress is so low as to be essentially costless, but it's a reasonable way to look at it. (And I didn't realize he only threw 10 pitches in the ninth -- that helps the case.) Will [25], it's always better to have Mo finish a game than anyone else... if there's no cost. But generally there is a cost in future availability. So you do have to think about how much benefit there is in letting him finish the game. Last night, the benefit was extremely small. Maybe the cost was also very small, in which case I don't have a problem with it. [36] johnny s.l., that’s approximately what I was saying in [12] is the only legit argument for leaving Mariano in the game. I didn’t say I agreed, because I’m not sure the extra stress is so low as to be essentially costless, but it’s a reasonable way to look at it. (And I didn’t realize he only threw 10 pitches in the ninth — that helps the case.)

Will [25], it’s always better to have Mo finish a game than anyone else… if there’s no cost. But generally there is a cost in future availability. So you do have to think about how much benefit there is in letting him finish the game. Last night, the benefit was extremely small. Maybe the cost was also very small, in which case I don’t have a problem with it.

]]> By: Will Weiss http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172462 Will Weiss Thu, 21 May 2009 19:43:01 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172462 [29] Thanks Diane. I don't have edit capabilities once a story has been published. [29] Thanks Diane. I don’t have edit capabilities once a story has been published.

]]> By: Will Weiss http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172461 Will Weiss Thu, 21 May 2009 19:39:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172461 Great comments everyone. I appreciate the feedback and the discourse. My intent was not to spur a hate match amongst some of you. Keep reading, keep up the feedback on both sides. Great comments everyone. I appreciate the feedback and the discourse. My intent was not to spur a hate match amongst some of you. Keep reading, keep up the feedback on both sides.

]]> By: Horace Clarke Era http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172460 Horace Clarke Era Thu, 21 May 2009 19:24:53 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172460 Okay, Bum, 'delusional' it is. Yup. Got it. I like to spend my time here making things up. Forgive me. Please. I hang my head in most abject shame. I have been so utterly out-argued. May never have the chutzpah to post again. Okay, Bum, ‘delusional’ it is. Yup. Got it. I like to spend my time here making things up. Forgive me. Please. I hang my head in most abject shame. I have been so utterly out-argued. May never have the chutzpah to post again.

]]> By: jonnystrongleg http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/05/21/yankee-panky-less-is-mo/#comment-172459 jonnystrongleg Thu, 21 May 2009 19:13:57 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=19258#comment-172459 [37] They never came to the red light since Mariano had no trouble in the 9th. It took him 10 pitches. This debate might have teeth if Mariano threw a lot of pitches, but he didn't. Those who have no faith in Girardi have no trouble imagining him letting Rivera labor, those who do can imagine him yanking him after a pre-set pitch limit. I can buy either, but it didn't happen that way, so there's no practical difference between 4 and 14. [37] They never came to the red light since Mariano had no trouble in the 9th. It took him 10 pitches. This debate might have teeth if Mariano threw a lot of pitches, but he didn’t. Those who have no faith in Girardi have no trouble imagining him letting Rivera labor, those who do can imagine him yanking him after a pre-set pitch limit. I can buy either, but it didn’t happen that way, so there’s no practical difference between 4 and 14.

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