Comments on: Keep ‘Em Coming Back http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Thu, 23 May 2013 23:26:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177247 RIYank Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:14:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177247 By a "late start" I meant a late arrival in the Major Leagues. I know they were being conservative with him, but in this case I think it's cost Youk (and maybe the Sox) some first rate years out of a first rate career. By a “late start” I meant a late arrival in the Major Leagues. I know they were being conservative with him, but in this case I think it’s cost Youk (and maybe the Sox) some first rate years out of a first rate career.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177246 monkeypants Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:07:46 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177246 [24] His start was not late, but development at the MLB level has not been as amazing as some in the media project. He has had exactly one superstar season, last year at age 29. The other years were just not THAT impressive for a corner IF. He's following a pretty standard curve for a very good--not great--player: steady improvement in numbers until c. 28 peak. Maybe he's peaking a year or two later, but that is not so unusual. I predict an equally steady decline on the other side of 30. He'll always have OBP, but I doubt that he keeps slugging c. 600 for very long. [24] His start was not late, but development at the MLB level has not been as amazing as some in the media project. He has had exactly one superstar season, last year at age 29. The other years were just not THAT impressive for a corner IF. He’s following a pretty standard curve for a very good–not great–player: steady improvement in numbers until c. 28 peak. Maybe he’s peaking a year or two later, but that is not so unusual. I predict an equally steady decline on the other side of 30. He’ll always have OBP, but I doubt that he keeps slugging c. 600 for very long.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177245 monkeypants Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:04:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177245 [22] [23] For the record, I don't think that Wang's done. I just think that they cannot risk burning a few games on what amounts to rehab at the MLB level. All on the hope that his first two innings represent the "real Wang" this season, rather than the other, crappier innings. I am convinced that he was really, really not ready to come back at the beginning of the season, and his subsequent handling has only made matters worse. It is similar to stretching him out as they did with Joba last year. But correct me if I'm wrong--didn't they stretch Joba...in the pen? Wouldn't it be better to put Wang on a more or less fixed schedule out of the BP, pitching 2 then 3 then 4 innings in relief? [22] [23]

For the record, I don’t think that Wang’s done. I just think that they cannot risk burning a few games on what amounts to rehab at the MLB level. All on the hope that his first two innings represent the “real Wang” this season, rather than the other, crappier innings. I am convinced that he was really, really not ready to come back at the beginning of the season, and his subsequent handling has only made matters worse.

It is similar to stretching him out as they did with Joba last year. But correct me if I’m wrong–didn’t they stretch Joba…in the pen? Wouldn’t it be better to put Wang on a more or less fixed schedule out of the BP, pitching 2 then 3 then 4 innings in relief?

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177244 Raf Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:43:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177244 <b>I wonder why nobody points that out in evaluations of Boston’s management of their farm system…</b> Youklis spent a year @ every level after he was drafted, eventually getting the call to Boston in 2004. I don't think it's a late start as much as the organization being conservative with their player. I wonder why nobody points that out in evaluations of Boston’s management of their farm system…

Youklis spent a year @ every level after he was drafted, eventually getting the call to Boston in 2004. I don’t think it’s a late start as much as the organization being conservative with their player.

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177243 The Hawk Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:36:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177243 Yeah I don't see how you could watch that game yesterday and decide Wang's done. Early on, his sinker looked really good. Lots of foul balls hit into the dirt, beside the ground ball outs. It may be that his situation will cost the team, as getting him back to 100% vs Boston (or any ML team really) is a hardly optimal, but keeping him in the pen isn't optimal either. It's similar to them stretching Joba out last season, though here they have the advantage of being fairly sure of what they'll have at the end of the process. Yeah I don’t see how you could watch that game yesterday and decide Wang’s done. Early on, his sinker looked really good. Lots of foul balls hit into the dirt, beside the ground ball outs. It may be that his situation will cost the team, as getting him back to 100% vs Boston (or any ML team really) is a hardly optimal, but keeping him in the pen isn’t optimal either.

It’s similar to them stretching Joba out last season, though here they have the advantage of being fairly sure of what they’ll have at the end of the process.

]]> By: Horace Clarke Era http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177242 Horace Clarke Era Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:20:11 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177242 It is REALLY rare for players to utterly lose it. It happens, but we notice those, because it is unusual, and it tends to involve really young guys who had a hot debut then fade, or older guys falling faster than expected (Papi, Andruw). Wang is in his prime. It really does look like an injury + need to gain stamina. I agree with getting him out of the pen, but would have preferred 2 more 80-100 pitch outings in the minors. Still, he was fine in first three innings, then tired, it looks - against a very good offense. I have no sense, myself, that he's done. I agree that rehab/lengthening starts are not best done in a pennant race. I think the Manny revelations do hang heavily (in their silence) over Papi's fall-off ... but what interests me this morning is just how MUCH, if we believe it was drugs, those drugs DID! There was a link here I followed awhile back where some guy did the science to assert that steroids just don't help much. It impressed me at first glance, but less and less so now. And is anyone pondering the amazing drop-off in a HUGE number of players' power numbers this year? Guys who hit 20 hrs, sitting on 1 or 3 at the 1/3 mark? The Unit? One more tip of the hat ... it is silly to point out he just 'stuck around' ... you NEED 20 seasons of 15 wins to do this. That's sticking around! Break in at 22, and you are 42 years old (see, OYF, I can do math over coffee!). The guys who did it younger had great teams behind them, or 4 man rotations. It is REALLY rare for players to utterly lose it. It happens, but we notice those, because it is unusual, and it tends to involve really young guys who had a hot debut then fade, or older guys falling faster than expected (Papi, Andruw). Wang is in his prime. It really does look like an injury + need to gain stamina. I agree with getting him out of the pen, but would have preferred 2 more 80-100 pitch outings in the minors. Still, he was fine in first three innings, then tired, it looks – against a very good offense. I have no sense, myself, that he’s done. I agree that rehab/lengthening starts are not best done in a pennant race.

I think the Manny revelations do hang heavily (in their silence) over Papi’s fall-off … but what interests me this morning is just how MUCH, if we believe it was drugs, those drugs DID! There was a link here I followed awhile back where some guy did the science to assert that steroids just don’t help much. It impressed me at first glance, but less and less so now. And is anyone pondering the amazing drop-off in a HUGE number of players’ power numbers this year? Guys who hit 20 hrs, sitting on 1 or 3 at the 1/3 mark?

The Unit? One more tip of the hat … it is silly to point out he just ‘stuck around’ … you NEED 20 seasons of 15 wins to do this. That’s sticking around! Break in at 22, and you are 42 years old (see, OYF, I can do math over coffee!). The guys who did it younger had great teams behind them, or 4 man rotations.

]]> By: rbj http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177241 rbj Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:17:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177241 Wang's first two innings were vintage. I think he'll continue to come back and be a big factor in the second half. Just no more starts in NL parks. Wang’s first two innings were vintage. I think he’ll continue to come back and be a big factor in the second half. Just no more starts in NL parks.

]]> By: Chyll Will http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177240 Chyll Will Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:59:24 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177240 My feeling is that it's still too early to count Wang out of the future and even, yes, Big Papi; with him, I'd keep an eye on how he responds during the Boston series; I have a good idea what most folks are <i>not</i> saying about him and not trying to stir up even more shyddit, especially after the Manny Discovery, but bottom line for me is, if he can't get up for New York, whom always seem to cajole him into a hot streak one way or another, then Boston's far more likely to make a move on him than we are (or should) on Wang (oops, I broke it; I don't want it anymore). Trading Wang? I hope not, that would be compounding your own mistakes, unless you know you've thoroughly pissed him off to the point he never wants to come back here after the season anyway (Either way, if I'm Wang's agent, the bungles this year have either cost the the team big money or big talent next year). My feeling is that it’s still too early to count Wang out of the future and even, yes, Big Papi; with him, I’d keep an eye on how he responds during the Boston series; I have a good idea what most folks are not saying about him and not trying to stir up even more shyddit, especially after the Manny Discovery, but bottom line for me is, if he can’t get up for New York, whom always seem to cajole him into a hot streak one way or another, then Boston’s far more likely to make a move on him than we are (or should) on Wang (oops, I broke it; I don’t want it anymore). Trading Wang? I hope not, that would be compounding your own mistakes, unless you know you’ve thoroughly pissed him off to the point he never wants to come back here after the season anyway (Either way, if I’m Wang’s agent, the bungles this year have either cost the the team big money or big talent next year).

]]> By: PJ http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177239 PJ Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:50:36 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177239 [18] They are too busy going on and on ad nauseum about the Yankees' failed farm system... you know, the one that produced Aceves, Chamberlain, Coke, Hughes, Pena, Robertson, Melancon, Cervelli, Cabrera, Gardner, and Cano, not to mention Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Posada and Williams... Get on board, the "new core train!" I mean, how much "core" do you really need than <i>that</i>? I will happily take all of those guys, thanks! : ) [18] They are too busy going on and on ad nauseum about the Yankees’ failed farm system… you know, the one that produced Aceves, Chamberlain, Coke, Hughes, Pena, Robertson, Melancon, Cervelli, Cabrera, Gardner, and Cano, not to mention Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Posada and Williams…

Get on board, the “new core train!” I mean, how much “core” do you really need than that? I will happily take all of those guys, thanks!

: )

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177238 RIYank Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:19:06 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177238 [15] Wow, I can't believe Youkilis is thirty. He hasn't hit free agency yet! He got such a late start -- I wonder why nobody points that out in evaluations of Boston's management of their farm system... [15] Wow, I can’t believe Youkilis is thirty. He hasn’t hit free agency yet! He got such a late start — I wonder why nobody points that out in evaluations of Boston’s management of their farm system…

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177237 monkeypants Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:38:22 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177237 [15] I remain highly skeptical. I think that, as a result of consecutive injuries and being rushed back from MiL, he is lost for the year as a starter--unless the Yankees build a big lead can afford to use real games as extended spring training. I would rather see them do the reverse of their current plan: use Wang to shadow Hughes/Joba, and if the team builds a lead, they can begin to restrict the kids' innings and work in Wang. Of course, he goes out and throws up goose eggs for five innings next time against Boston, I will be happily be proven wrong. [15] I remain highly skeptical. I think that, as a result of consecutive injuries and being rushed back from MiL, he is lost for the year as a starter–unless the Yankees build a big lead can afford to use real games as extended spring training. I would rather see them do the reverse of their current plan: use Wang to shadow Hughes/Joba, and if the team builds a lead, they can begin to restrict the kids’ innings and work in Wang.

Of course, he goes out and throws up goose eggs for five innings next time against Boston, I will be happily be proven wrong.

]]> By: The Mick536 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177236 The Mick536 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:32:08 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177236 Is Alex still in his spring training phase or does he just not have enough youth to get around on inside pitches? Is Alex still in his spring training phase or does he just not have enough youth to get around on inside pitches?

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177235 williamnyy23 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 10:54:26 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177235 For three innings, Wang looked pretty good to me too. The fact that he tired around 50 pitches or so shouldn't really come as a surprise. It will probably take another outing for two until he can be expected to go 100 strong pitches. Unfortunately, that means he'll face Boston beforehand, but I think the Yankees needed to re-establish Wang as soon as possible. What the Yankees have to hope is this game gets played tonight because otherwise it will force Wang AND Pettitte into the Boston series, which would not exactly be a good thing. [4] Boston still has a good lineup, but it is very top heavy with Bay and Youkilis now, and Youk keeps coming down with nagging injuries. At 30 years old and with his body type, these lingering injuries for Youk might become commonplace. For three innings, Wang looked pretty good to me too. The fact that he tired around 50 pitches or so shouldn’t really come as a surprise. It will probably take another outing for two until he can be expected to go 100 strong pitches. Unfortunately, that means he’ll face Boston beforehand, but I think the Yankees needed to re-establish Wang as soon as possible.

What the Yankees have to hope is this game gets played tonight because otherwise it will force Wang AND Pettitte into the Boston series, which would not exactly be a good thing.

[4] Boston still has a good lineup, but it is very top heavy with Bay and Youkilis now, and Youk keeps coming down with nagging injuries. At 30 years old and with his body type, these lingering injuries for Youk might become commonplace.

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177234 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:47:39 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177234 [13] Dunn hitting at the New YS would be scary...hope they get Matt Holliday and waste a huge contract on him instead. [13] Dunn hitting at the New YS would be scary…hope they get Matt Holliday and waste a huge contract on him instead.

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177233 thelarmis Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:08:02 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177233 [12] i hope they don't get Adam Dunn.... off to bed... [12] i hope they don’t get Adam Dunn….

off to bed…

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177232 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:03:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177232 I don't like Wang vs Beckett at all next week, but CC vs. Wakefield is nice, and Joba vs Penny is certainly in our favor..but as usual, it's going to come down to the wire. Next move to Boston: what do they do with Papi and who do they get by trade? I don’t like Wang vs Beckett at all next week, but CC vs. Wakefield is nice, and Joba vs Penny is certainly in our favor..but as usual, it’s going to come down to the wire. Next move to Boston: what do they do with Papi and who do they get by trade?

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177231 thelarmis Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:56:12 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177231 it's true! but i got back on a metal kick there for a bit. still on it somewhat, my i'm up to my ears in Blue Note now - literally & figuratively!!! : ) yeah man, it's gonna be a tough 10-day stretch coming up. hopefully we continue to play solid ball and make some waves in the division. we can start putting teams in the rear view mirror. it’s true! but i got back on a metal kick there for a bit. still on it somewhat, my i’m up to my ears in Blue Note now – literally & figuratively!!! : )

yeah man, it’s gonna be a tough 10-day stretch coming up. hopefully we continue to play solid ball and make some waves in the division. we can start putting teams in the rear view mirror.

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177230 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:46:28 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177230 [9] hah, you been on a Blue Note kick since I joined the Bx Banter last year!! But that's a GOOD thing :) Classic Mingus on this morning, "Blues & Roots". Ready for the Tampa series? CC vs Price tomorrow AM, on live tv here, can't wait [9] hah, you been on a Blue Note kick since I joined the Bx Banter last year!! But that’s a GOOD thing :)

Classic Mingus on this morning, “Blues & Roots”.

Ready for the Tampa series? CC vs Price tomorrow AM, on live tv here, can’t wait

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177229 thelarmis Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:43:07 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177229 [8] nice! i'm spinning some Three Sounds right now. on a HUGE blue note kick!!! : ) [8] nice! i’m spinning some Three Sounds right now. on a HUGE blue note kick!!! : )

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/04/keep-em-coming-back/#comment-177228 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:39:47 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20001#comment-177228 [7] Hey man, got some good jazz things developing here, a link up with this new york crew that does interenet radio..stand by for details! Big Unit..awesome...considering that he had such a late start, it's truly an impressive landmark.. [7] Hey man, got some good jazz things developing here, a link up with this new york crew that does interenet radio..stand by for details!

Big Unit..awesome…considering that he had such a late start, it’s truly an impressive landmark..

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