Comments on: Back For More http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:15:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: weeping for brunnhilde http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178039 weeping for brunnhilde Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:47:21 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178039 [347] I'm not disputing the conclusion that there is no "protection effect" (not here, anyway), but I do think it's more than just "sloppy language." Whatever term you want to use, it's a fundamentally unscientific premise!--unless it's the product of interviews or questionnaires of the pitchers in question. The author offers nothing whatever to substantiate his claim that some hitters are more feared than others and therefore should be chosen as test cases not just according to slugging percentage. I don't dispute that study after study has demonstrated your point, only that this study should *not* be considered sound evidence due to its patently unsound methodology. And thanks for the other link! [347] I’m not disputing the conclusion that there is no “protection effect” (not here, anyway), but I do think it’s more than just “sloppy language.” Whatever term you want to use, it’s a fundamentally unscientific premise!–unless it’s the product of interviews or questionnaires of the pitchers in question. The author offers nothing whatever to substantiate his claim that some hitters are more feared than others and therefore should be chosen as test cases not just according to slugging percentage.

I don’t dispute that study after study has demonstrated your point, only that this study should *not* be considered sound evidence due to its patently unsound methodology.

And thanks for the other link!

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178038 monkeypants Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:46:00 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178038 [347] Meanwhile, one of my comments is "awaiting moderation"--in it I cite three other studies. I'll try again, this time including only one link, which includes the three subsequent links: http://tinyurl.com/ltve9c [347] Meanwhile, one of my comments is “awaiting moderation”–in it I cite three other studies. I’ll try again, this time including only one link, which includes the three subsequent links:

http://tinyurl.com/ltve9c

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178037 monkeypants Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:43:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178037 [347] Well yes, sloppy language. The point is that in study after study, no one has found any consistent, measurable "protection effect." [347] Well yes, sloppy language. The point is that in study after study, no one has found any consistent, measurable “protection effect.”

]]> By: weeping for brunnhilde http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178036 weeping for brunnhilde Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:18:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178036 [345] I'm not trying to be a contrarian, but how can a study that purports to be scientific use a hitter's "reputation" as one of its two metrics? I mean, I'm not denying that pitchers are more afraid of some hitters than others, even despite comparable numbers, but what place does such an unscientific variable have in an otherwise scientific study? "Another classic protection situation. Joyner usually batted third with Dave Winfield cleanup, and there were some games in which Joyner batted second with Winfield third. When Winfield wasn't in the lineup, the batter behind Joyner was usually Dave Parker or Gary Gaetti, neither one of whom struck fear in the hearts of opposing pitchers." How does one substantiate such a thing? Again, not trying to be contrarian, but doesn't the reliance on whether or not a hitter strikes fear into opposing pitchers completely undermine the scientific credibility of the study? [345] I’m not trying to be a contrarian, but how can a study that purports to be scientific use a hitter’s “reputation” as one of its two metrics? I mean, I’m not denying that pitchers are more afraid of some hitters than others, even despite comparable numbers, but what place does such an unscientific variable have in an otherwise scientific study?

“Another classic protection situation. Joyner usually batted third with
Dave Winfield cleanup, and there were some games in which Joyner batted
second with Winfield third. When Winfield wasn’t in the lineup, the
batter behind Joyner was usually Dave Parker or Gary Gaetti, neither one
of whom struck fear in the hearts of opposing pitchers.”

How does one substantiate such a thing?

Again, not trying to be contrarian, but doesn’t the reliance on whether or not a hitter strikes fear into opposing pitchers completely undermine the scientific credibility of the study?

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178035 monkeypants Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:57:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178035 [343] If he's older than 35, his offensive peak looks even more suspicious (and this still does not explain the massive fall of). And I'm not buying that his tremendous offensive production is because of protection in the lineup, especially since everything I've read suggests that protection does not really exist. Fro example: http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/grabiner/protstudy.html [343] If he’s older than 35, his offensive peak looks even more suspicious (and this still does not explain the massive fall of). And I’m not buying that his tremendous offensive production is because of protection in the lineup, especially since everything I’ve read suggests that protection does not really exist. Fro example:

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/grabiner/protstudy.html

]]> By: weeping for brunnhilde http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178034 weeping for brunnhilde Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:01:18 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178034 [332] Actually, you left out the word "being." (Sorry, couldn't resist the pedantry.) [332] Actually, you left out the word “being.”

(Sorry, couldn’t resist the pedantry.)

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178033 The Hawk Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:36:28 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178033 I certainly didn't bring up Ortiz's age to discount steroid use, necessarily, but I think at the same time his being older is more likely than the idea that he's coming off the juice, or whatever. Again, not to say he wasn't juicing, but it seems the age thing is almost definitely true. They both could be, sure. I bet he's over 35. His offensive coming of age also just happened to coincide with hitting in front of Manny. Look what happened to Teixeira once A Rod came back. I certainly didn’t bring up Ortiz’s age to discount steroid use, necessarily, but I think at the same time his being older is more likely than the idea that he’s coming off the juice, or whatever. Again, not to say he wasn’t juicing, but it seems the age thing is almost definitely true. They both could be, sure.

I bet he’s over 35. His offensive coming of age also just happened to coincide with hitting in front of Manny. Look what happened to Teixeira once A Rod came back.

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178032 thelarmis Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:55:14 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178032 [340] i'm not positive, i think so. at first, there was all this bollocks that you had to buy tickets in blocks of SIX. that is just ridiculous. i went online yesterday and it seemed as though i could buy an individual ticket. there was a dugout seat for $75, with taxes/fees. of course, i'd be fine with a $5 nosebleed seat. i may wait a bit and just do that... [340] i’m not positive, i think so. at first, there was all this bollocks that you had to buy tickets in blocks of SIX. that is just ridiculous. i went online yesterday and it seemed as though i could buy an individual ticket. there was a dugout seat for $75, with taxes/fees. of course, i’d be fine with a $5 nosebleed seat. i may wait a bit and just do that…

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178031 RIYank Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:53:00 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178031 Oh, I wanted to say: my favorite plate appearance of the night was Cano's RBI walk. That was awesome. Nothing wrong with Swisher's bomb, of course. Oh, I wanted to say: my favorite plate appearance of the night was Cano’s RBI walk. That was awesome. Nothing wrong with Swisher’s bomb, of course.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178030 RIYank Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:52:08 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178030 [339] Lots of tickets available? [339] Lots of tickets available?

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178029 thelarmis Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:51:07 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178029 [337] yes. here in Atl. June 23, 24, 25. i hope to go Thurs the 25th. i teach the other 2 nights... [337] yes. here in Atl. June 23, 24, 25. i hope to go Thurs the 25th. i teach the other 2 nights…

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178028 thelarmis Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:50:25 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178028 [334] i'll head down to The Ted and pick it up for him! ; ) [334] i’ll head down to The Ted and pick it up for him! ; )

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178027 RIYank Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:50:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178027 We're playing the Braves this month, right? It's the AL East and then the NL. We’re playing the Braves this month, right? It’s the AL East and then the NL.

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178026 thelarmis Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:49:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178026 yikes, Soriano's OBP is .299 [333] yeah, it's a buzz here. the grievance won't fly. they didn't treat smoltz or glavine very well. frenchy might get gone soon. chipper is signed though. he had a great game today and the braves had a nice comeback win w/ their kid pitcher tommy hanson on the hill. it's gorgeous here - i should really get outta the house... yikes, Soriano’s OBP is .299

[333] yeah, it’s a buzz here. the grievance won’t fly. they didn’t treat smoltz or glavine very well. frenchy might get gone soon. chipper is signed though. he had a great game today and the braves had a nice comeback win w/ their kid pitcher tommy hanson on the hill.

it’s gorgeous here – i should really get outta the house…

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178025 RIYank Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:49:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178025 Jeez, I didn't notice that the YFSF bit was from The Onion. I'd be surprised if Ortiz really is older than he says. He grew up in a middle class family, there are genuine records. The Dominican is essentially a 3rd world country for the poor, but not for the middle class. Jeez, I didn’t notice that the YFSF bit was from The Onion.

I’d be surprised if Ortiz really is older than he says. He grew up in a middle class family, there are genuine records. The Dominican is essentially a 3rd world country for the poor, but not for the middle class.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178024 monkeypants Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:48:54 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178024 [333] They should just pay him the million and then still cut him. [333] They should just pay him the million and then still cut him.

]]> By: Chyll Will http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178023 Chyll Will Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:47:17 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178023 Wow, Atlanta's threatening to be a hotter mess than the Mutts... Glavine might file a grievance for being released on the eve of his comeback (and automatic $1 million payout). Braves front office seems to be scrambling a lot since Frank Wren became GM. Sad. Wow, Atlanta’s threatening to be a hotter mess than the Mutts… Glavine might file a grievance for being released on the eve of his comeback (and automatic $1 million payout). Braves front office seems to be scrambling a lot since Frank Wren became GM. Sad.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178022 ms october Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:43:45 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178022 [331] i left out the word from - they will do anything to keep his name from being linked to steroids - [331] i left out the word from – they will do anything to keep his name from being linked to steroids -

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178021 ms october Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:42:27 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178021 [325] yeah i agree - but i think it is funny that the ortiz lovers will do anything to keep his name linked with steroids alright hopefully the magic won't roll over again tonight and tomorrow andy pettite will pitch better and andy sonnastine will throw his usual crap [325] yeah i agree – but i think it is funny that the ortiz lovers will do anything to keep his name linked with steroids

alright hopefully the magic won’t roll over again tonight and tomorrow andy pettite will pitch better and andy sonnastine will throw his usual crap

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/06/07/back-for-more/#comment-178020 OldYanksFan Sun, 07 Jun 2009 20:42:03 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20077#comment-178020 http://www.theonion.com/content/news/manny_ramirez_to_david_ortiz_road http://www.theonion.com/content/news/manny_ramirez_to_david_ortiz_road

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