Comments on: Clash of the Titans http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Tue, 21 May 2013 16:22:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: seamus http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196669 seamus Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:58:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196669 woot! We got Hirsch!!! woot! We got Hirsch!!!

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196668 thelarmis Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:45:02 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196668 [36] you watch yer ass!!! ; ) HA!!! you didn't know the devil had baby blue eyes, huh?! : ) great minds drink alike. wanna go for a beer tomorrow night?! anyway, i've gotta leave NOW to go teach. unfortunately, i'll miss most of the game. but i hope to make it home to watch the end on espn, before i split for slices... i sure hope to come home to a comfy Yankee lead!!! [36] you watch yer ass!!! ; )

HA!!! you didn’t know the devil had baby blue eyes, huh?! : )

great minds drink alike. wanna go for a beer tomorrow night?!

anyway, i’ve gotta leave NOW to go teach. unfortunately, i’ll miss most of the game. but i hope to make it home to watch the end on espn, before i split for slices…

i sure hope to come home to a comfy Yankee lead!!!

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196667 Rich Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:44:02 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196667 Again, discount <i>everything</i> a GM says before the trading deadline. Again, discount everything a GM says before the trading deadline.

]]> By: cult of basebaal http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196666 cult of basebaal Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:39:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196666 [35] DAMN YOUR EYES, NOSTRALARMIS!!!!! I was just logging in to post that trade with a header of "HOLD THE PRESSES!!!!" I should have known better than to try and get the drop on you ... =) [35] DAMN YOUR EYES, NOSTRALARMIS!!!!!

I was just logging in to post that trade with a header of “HOLD THE PRESSES!!!!”

I should have known better than to try and get the drop on you …

=)

]]> By: thelarmis http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196665 thelarmis Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:37:35 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196665 STOP THE PRESSES!!!! Yankees obtained RHP Jason Hirsch from Colorado for a PTBNL. He was sent to AAA. STOP THE PRESSES!!!!

Yankees obtained RHP Jason Hirsch from Colorado for a PTBNL. He was sent to AAA.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196664 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:21:51 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196664 [32] I don't think that is an *entirely* unreasonable position. The Jays are always trapped, it seems, between being buyers and sellers. If they really think they have something with the younger guys, maybe the best thing would be for them to try to make a run next year. This would be easier, of course, if they hadn't made such awful, awful deals with Rios and Wells. [32] I don’t think that is an *entirely* unreasonable position. The Jays are always trapped, it seems, between being buyers and sellers. If they really think they have something with the younger guys, maybe the best thing would be for them to try to make a run next year. This would be easier, of course, if they hadn’t made such awful, awful deals with Rios and Wells.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196663 ms october Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:16:59 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196663 [32] you'll get a reaction out of me! i despise lyle overbay , and i am not even sure why. i even had a conversation about me despising him with some random jay fan at the game i went to this year who must have thought i was some wacko. his ops+ is nice this year (120 ) but he is so overarted it is gross and i believe no one is called a professional hitter more than him. [32] you’ll get a reaction out of me!

i despise lyle overbay , and i am not even sure why.
i even had a conversation about me despising him with some random jay fan at the game i went to this year who must have thought i was some wacko.
his ops+ is nice this year (120 ) but he is so overarted it is gross and i believe no one is called a professional hitter more than him.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196662 RIYank Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:11:14 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196662 I was kind of kidding about Overbay. I was hoping to get a reaction from Mattpat. (He and I shared a month of aghast perplexity three years ago when some pundits thought the Jays suddenly became contenders with the acquisition of Lyle Overbay.) Check this out from <a href="http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/jays_gm_thinks.html" rel="nofollow">Joel Sherman</a>. <blockquote> "I would have to talk to ownership, but I personally would be less inclined to trade him in the offseason," Ricciardi said when reached by phone by the Post. "I would think let's put our best foot forward in 2010. We expect to get our injured pitchers back (such as Shaun Marcum and Jesse Litsch) and let's try to win.'</blockquote> Speaking, of course, of Halladay. I was kind of kidding about Overbay. I was hoping to get a reaction from Mattpat. (He and I shared a month of aghast perplexity three years ago when some pundits thought the Jays suddenly became contenders with the acquisition of Lyle Overbay.)

Check this out from Joel Sherman.

“I would have to talk to ownership, but I personally would be less inclined to trade him in the offseason,” Ricciardi said when reached by phone by the Post. “I would think let’s put our best foot forward in 2010. We expect to get our injured pitchers back (such as Shaun Marcum and Jesse Litsch) and let’s try to win.’

Speaking, of course, of Halladay.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196661 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:11:04 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196661 [28] Aha! I posted the following on July 8 (Boom Squad, comment #13): <blockquote> The guys who might attract attention from the Jays this year are Overbay and Barajas. Overbay is truly overrated, but he’s having a good season and (IIRC) his splits v. RHP are pretty nice. Barajas is having a decent season and surely there is at least one competitive team that could use him as a starter or back-up. Both are 32 and can’t be important in the Jays’ future. That is, unless Ricciardi is even a worse GM than I think he is. </blockquote> [28]

Aha! I posted the following on July 8 (Boom Squad, comment #13):

The guys who might attract attention from the Jays this year are Overbay and Barajas. Overbay is truly overrated, but he’s having a good season and (IIRC) his splits v. RHP are pretty nice. Barajas is having a decent season and surely there is at least one competitive team that could use him as a starter or back-up. Both are 32 and can’t be important in the Jays’ future.

That is, unless Ricciardi is even a worse GM than I think he is.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196660 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:06:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196660 Meanwhile, the defense is bailing out Halladay against the Mariners right now. Meanwhile, the defense is bailing out Halladay against the Mariners right now.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196659 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:06:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196659 [28] I personally think there is every chance they do. He's 32 or so, right? And he hasn't really hit like a 1B, but he is having a really nice season. He's a perfect lure to swindle some desperate team. (To be fair, he does have really nice career splits. Maybe a team like the Sox could use him in a platoon. I don't think he fits the Yankees.) There is no way, unless Ricciardi is really the fool I accuse of him of being, that Overbay is part of the Jays future in any meaningful way. Also, didn't I predict, about two weeks ago, that they would trade Overbay? I mean this for real...I'll have to check the archives. [28] I personally think there is every chance they do. He’s 32 or so, right? And he hasn’t really hit like a 1B, but he is having a really nice season. He’s a perfect lure to swindle some desperate team. (To be fair, he does have really nice career splits. Maybe a team like the Sox could use him in a platoon. I don’t think he fits the Yankees.) There is no way, unless Ricciardi is really the fool I accuse of him of being, that Overbay is part of the Jays future in any meaningful way.

Also, didn’t I predict, about two weeks ago, that they would trade Overbay? I mean this for real…I’ll have to check the archives.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196658 RIYank Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:01:14 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196658 You don't think there's any chance the Jays would part with Lyle Overbay, do you? You don’t think there’s any chance the Jays would part with Lyle Overbay, do you?

]]> By: boslaw http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196657 boslaw Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:42:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196657 [26] I keep mentioning Wells because it seems like if you're going to try to entice them by taking salary off their hands, they'd probably rather part with Wells than Rios, but I'd certainly take Rios over Wells if I could get away with it. [25] I guess you're right about Mo, Po, Jeter's contracts - I hadn't done any research on it. I guess that makes me feel even more strongly that they should do the Halladay + wells/rios deal now if they can get away with it under my proposal (melky/garnder, joba/hughes, + 1 or 2 prospects). I'd love to win the WS again while jeter, po & mo are still on the team as starters. [26] I keep mentioning Wells because it seems like if you’re going to try to entice them by taking salary off their hands, they’d probably rather part with Wells than Rios, but I’d certainly take Rios over Wells if I could get away with it.

[25] I guess you’re right about Mo, Po, Jeter’s contracts – I hadn’t done any research on it. I guess that makes me feel even more strongly that they should do the Halladay + wells/rios deal now if they can get away with it under my proposal (melky/garnder, joba/hughes, + 1 or 2 prospects). I’d love to win the WS again while jeter, po & mo are still on the team as starters.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196656 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:23:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196656 [23] Alex Rios is worrisome in his own right, considering that his numbers have declined the last couple of years. But he is only 28, and his production is currently no worse than Melky/Gardy. [23] Alex Rios is worrisome in his own right, considering that his numbers have declined the last couple of years. But he is only 28, and his production is currently no worse than Melky/Gardy.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196655 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:21:51 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196655 [23] <i>Jeter, ARod, PO, MO, etc., will seriously start breaking down. Then, we’ll have a bunch of immovable contracts and no realistic way to fill those gaps,</i> In a few years, MO, Po and Jeter are no longer under contract. In a few years there will only be a couple of big, immovable contracts: A-Rod, Teix, and CC. Am I missing someone? [23] Jeter, ARod, PO, MO, etc., will seriously start breaking down. Then, we’ll have a bunch of immovable contracts and no realistic way to fill those gaps,

In a few years, MO, Po and Jeter are no longer under contract. In a few years there will only be a couple of big, immovable contracts: A-Rod, Teix, and CC.

Am I missing someone?

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196654 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:17:59 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196654 [20] Similarity scores are a pretty flawed tool, but the similarity scores for Halladay support your position. Here are the top ten: 1. Roy Oswalt (955) 2. Denny McLain (944) 3. Tim Hudson (937) 4. Vic Raschi (935) 5. Jack McDowell (925) 6. Larry Jansen (924) 7. Preacher Roe (920) 8. Sal Maglie (917) 9. Mark Buehrle (917) 10. C.C. Sabathia (915) A few contemporary guys, so we don't know how well they will age. A few who flamed out, and a few who pitched well into their late thirties. [20] Similarity scores are a pretty flawed tool, but the similarity scores for Halladay support your position. Here are the top ten:

1. Roy Oswalt (955)
2. Denny McLain (944)
3. Tim Hudson (937)
4. Vic Raschi (935)
5. Jack McDowell (925)
6. Larry Jansen (924)
7. Preacher Roe (920)
8. Sal Maglie (917)
9. Mark Buehrle (917)
10. C.C. Sabathia (915)

A few contemporary guys, so we don’t know how well they will age. A few who flamed out, and a few who pitched well into their late thirties.

]]> By: Horace Clarke Era http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196653 Horace Clarke Era Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:14:51 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196653 I wouldn't touch Wells, I'd jump to get Rios with Doc. Obviously it turns on cost, not both of JobaPhil. You'd think adding Rios would make it cost us more players, but it might not - he's 10 million off the Blue Jays books. They WOULD want Melky or Gardner ... they don't care Gardy's hurt for awhile. Plus one of our minor league blue chippers and probably another, along with Phil or Joba. (Actually there ARE no minor league blue chippers, just big dreams.) And, as with Tex, this has to factor in Boston getting Halladay otherwise ... at least as the current (4 pm) reports, since Philly took Cliff Lee. Bosox with Doc and Beckett as a 1/2 get very scary. They MAY be backing off Roy and going for Victor M ... the Varitek era ends, if so. I wouldn’t touch Wells, I’d jump to get Rios with Doc. Obviously it turns on cost, not both of JobaPhil. You’d think adding Rios would make it cost us more players, but it might not – he’s 10 million off the Blue Jays books. They WOULD want Melky or Gardner … they don’t care Gardy’s hurt for awhile. Plus one of our minor league blue chippers and probably another, along with Phil or Joba. (Actually there ARE no minor league blue chippers, just big dreams.)

And, as with Tex, this has to factor in Boston getting Halladay otherwise … at least as the current (4 pm) reports, since Philly took Cliff Lee. Bosox with Doc and Beckett as a 1/2 get very scary. They MAY be backing off Roy and going for Victor M … the Varitek era ends, if so.

]]> By: boslaw http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196652 boslaw Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:09:44 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196652 I'm just not convinced that our rotation, as it stands, will get us to the World Series this year. Halladay, I think, would be a difference maker on that point, and really, isn't that the point? In a few yrs, (probably sooner than later) Jeter, ARod, PO, MO, etc., will seriously start breaking down. Then, we'll have a bunch of immovable contracts and no realistic way to fill those gaps, and our chances at the WS will become slimmer, so why not go for broke and win it all while you can. It's not like we have a huge stable of prospects that will keep us in contention. I love the idea of building up the farm system, but I also think you use the farm system to your greatest advantage when you use it to give you a difference maker for a WS run. The Red Sox and Rays are not that far behind, and I'd put both of their starting rotations ahead of ours over the next 3 yr period. I’m just not convinced that our rotation, as it stands, will get us to the World Series this year. Halladay, I think, would be a difference maker on that point, and really, isn’t that the point? In a few yrs, (probably sooner than later) Jeter, ARod, PO, MO, etc., will seriously start breaking down. Then, we’ll have a bunch of immovable contracts and no realistic way to fill those gaps, and our chances at the WS will become slimmer, so why not go for broke and win it all while you can. It’s not like we have a huge stable of prospects that will keep us in contention.

I love the idea of building up the farm system, but I also think you use the farm system to your greatest advantage when you use it to give you a difference maker for a WS run. The Red Sox and Rays are not that far behind, and I’d put both of their starting rotations ahead of ours over the next 3 yr period.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196651 monkeypants Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:00:15 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196651 [20] Does "every indication" that he's a safe bet include going on the DL this season? Again, you're probably correct that he will age well, but I am not convinced that he will be worth the pile of prospects and cash that it will take to get him. I agree with Cashman's approach of not "paying twice" for the same player. He should hold firm unless the price comes way down, and fill pitching holes via free agency and internally. [20] Does “every indication” that he’s a safe bet include going on the DL this season? Again, you’re probably correct that he will age well, but I am not convinced that he will be worth the pile of prospects and cash that it will take to get him. I agree with Cashman’s approach of not “paying twice” for the same player. He should hold firm unless the price comes way down, and fill pitching holes via free agency and internally.

]]> By: boslaw http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/29/clash-of-the-titans/#comment-196650 boslaw Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:57:04 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22103#comment-196650 Monkeypants - I acknowledged that adding Halladay wouldn't solve our rotation hole next year. We'll still have at least one hole (and maybe 2 if we trade both Joba & Hughes, which I'm not advocating). However, I'd still feel more comfortable having CC, Halladay, AJ, Hughes/Joba, fill in the blank as opposed to CC, AJ, Hughes, Joba, fill in the blank. Yes, he's 32, but Halladay has shown every indication (as much as any player can) that he'll be a safe bet through his 30's. He's been a work horse. I would count on him as much as any other 32 yr old to age well. Monkeypants – I acknowledged that adding Halladay wouldn’t solve our rotation hole next year. We’ll still have at least one hole (and maybe 2 if we trade both Joba & Hughes, which I’m not advocating). However, I’d still feel more comfortable having CC, Halladay, AJ, Hughes/Joba, fill in the blank as opposed to CC, AJ, Hughes, Joba, fill in the blank.

Yes, he’s 32, but Halladay has shown every indication (as much as any player can) that he’ll be a safe bet through his 30′s. He’s been a work horse. I would count on him as much as any other 32 yr old to age well.

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