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	<title>Comments on: Yankee Panky: Toure de Farce</title>
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		<title>By: The Mick536</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197143</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mick536</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197143</guid>
		<description>I am so happy that you, in your professional and thorough manner, responded to this piece. I thought it was cheeky. Now, knowing who wrote it, I understand it better. While I collect and read books about the Yankess, good and bad, I have not picked up Robert&#039;s or Verducci&#039;s tomes.

Billy Martin was one of the Yankee gentlemen? How about Richardson and Gil? Heinrich. Bobby Brown. Some gentlemen in the 60s and 70s too. I loved Dave Winfield, in case there is any question. So many good guys I used to cheer. 

Is this Knobloch stuff on the level?

Moreover, how about his Papi news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so happy that you, in your professional and thorough manner, responded to this piece. I thought it was cheeky. Now, knowing who wrote it, I understand it better. While I collect and read books about the Yankess, good and bad, I have not picked up Robert&#8217;s or Verducci&#8217;s tomes.</p>
<p>Billy Martin was one of the Yankee gentlemen? How about Richardson and Gil? Heinrich. Bobby Brown. Some gentlemen in the 60s and 70s too. I loved Dave Winfield, in case there is any question. So many good guys I used to cheer. </p>
<p>Is this Knobloch stuff on the level?</p>
<p>Moreover, how about his Papi news?</p>
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		<title>By: Horace Clarke Era</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197142</link>
		<dc:creator>Horace Clarke Era</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197142</guid>
		<description>My name is Horace and I am backsliding ...

Moving this discussion from Cliff&#039;s earlier thread, I find  it is usually better to shift to the top thread here!

I&#039;m back with JobaPhil. I know I said I wouldn&#039;t 2nd guess the team on this. I&#039;m not 2nd guessing, I&#039;m ... worrying.

Here&#039;s the rub ... Joba is just terrific now, three in a row, top of line starting. All jokes about the innings watch aside there IS an innings watch and the Yankees would be idiots to ignore it, just as they were idiots to pl;ay A Rod every day after his doc said rest the man.

So we can kibbitz about it, and be funny, but he will have to step down or risk messing up an arm that already has some red flags. This is a painful note in a terrific month. The mirror image is Phil being utterly lights out in the 8th (with Bruney scary shaky). Phil will be nowhere close to boosting his innings enough to start for 150+ innings next year UNLESS he migrates to the rotation, where he was, essentially mediocre-with-flashes.

Does anyone see a way around these two truths? (Other than saying &#039;innings caps are for wusses&#039;.)

If not, then we ARE going to have to see the two of them flip, at a time when both are excelling in current roles. Not only that, but Joba needs to be in the pen in about 20-30 innings (three-four good starts!) to have some innings in reserve for September and, we hope, a deep playoff run with him in the 8th inning! And Phil needs to start shifting gears about ... Now!

I don&#039;t like this, at all, I like them right where they are ... but unless we keep both in the pen (Washburn, whither art thou?) which does not help Phil for next year, though may be sensational for us this year ... I don&#039;t see how to dodge this bullet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My name is Horace and I am backsliding &#8230;</p>
<p>Moving this discussion from Cliff&#8217;s earlier thread, I find  it is usually better to shift to the top thread here!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m back with JobaPhil. I know I said I wouldn&#8217;t 2nd guess the team on this. I&#8217;m not 2nd guessing, I&#8217;m &#8230; worrying.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the rub &#8230; Joba is just terrific now, three in a row, top of line starting. All jokes about the innings watch aside there IS an innings watch and the Yankees would be idiots to ignore it, just as they were idiots to pl;ay A Rod every day after his doc said rest the man.</p>
<p>So we can kibbitz about it, and be funny, but he will have to step down or risk messing up an arm that already has some red flags. This is a painful note in a terrific month. The mirror image is Phil being utterly lights out in the 8th (with Bruney scary shaky). Phil will be nowhere close to boosting his innings enough to start for 150+ innings next year UNLESS he migrates to the rotation, where he was, essentially mediocre-with-flashes.</p>
<p>Does anyone see a way around these two truths? (Other than saying &#8216;innings caps are for wusses&#8217;.)</p>
<p>If not, then we ARE going to have to see the two of them flip, at a time when both are excelling in current roles. Not only that, but Joba needs to be in the pen in about 20-30 innings (three-four good starts!) to have some innings in reserve for September and, we hope, a deep playoff run with him in the 8th inning! And Phil needs to start shifting gears about &#8230; Now!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like this, at all, I like them right where they are &#8230; but unless we keep both in the pen (Washburn, whither art thou?) which does not help Phil for next year, though may be sensational for us this year &#8230; I don&#8217;t see how to dodge this bullet.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197141</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197141</guid>
		<description>Woo-hoo...I get the Yankees again tonight!  Blue Jays&#039; off days are like Christmas in summertime!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woo-hoo&#8230;I get the Yankees again tonight!  Blue Jays&#8217; off days are like Christmas in summertime!</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197140</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197140</guid>
		<description>[22] And not as disappointing/unsurprising as so many ignoring the science of &quot;PEDs&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[22] And not as disappointing/unsurprising as so many ignoring the science of &#8220;PEDs&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197139</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197139</guid>
		<description>[20] You just mentioned it ... ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[20] You just mentioned it &#8230; <img src='http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197138</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197138</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Anyway, its disappointing, although probably unsurprising, that so many critics of the PED era ignore what Paxton Crawford said about the RS.&lt;/b&gt;

Not as disappointing/unsurprising as them ignoring what Tom House had to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Anyway, its disappointing, although probably unsurprising, that so many critics of the PED era ignore what Paxton Crawford said about the RS.</b></p>
<p>Not as disappointing/unsurprising as them ignoring what Tom House had to say.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197137</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197137</guid>
		<description>[20] All the news that&#039;s fit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[20] All the news that&#8217;s fit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mattpat11</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197136</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattpat11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197136</guid>
		<description>Its amazing that we can list a substantial list of the Times misdeeds without even mentioning that the paper flat out made something up about a major Presidential candidate in the middle of primary season last year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its amazing that we can list a substantial list of the Times misdeeds without even mentioning that the paper flat out made something up about a major Presidential candidate in the middle of primary season last year.</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197135</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197135</guid>
		<description>Daily News:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;You&#039;re asking way too much,&quot; Posada said. &quot;You&#039;re asking to give up the whole minor leagues and some of the guys here. He&#039;s worth the price, but I don&#039;t think what they&#039;re asking is fair.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m a little surprised -- commenting so plainly on a potential trade is more Schilling than Posada, I would have thought.
I like it, though (despite the fact that &quot;He&#039;s worth the price&quot; and &quot;don&#039;t think what they&#039;re asking is fair&quot; is kind of a strange conjunction, I think I see what he means). I wonder if Jorge would be suited for the front office post-retirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daily News:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;You&#8217;re asking way too much,&#8221; Posada said. &#8220;You&#8217;re asking to give up the whole minor leagues and some of the guys here. He&#8217;s worth the price, but I don&#8217;t think what they&#8217;re asking is fair.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m a little surprised &#8212; commenting so plainly on a potential trade is more Schilling than Posada, I would have thought.<br />
I like it, though (despite the fact that &#8220;He&#8217;s worth the price&#8221; and &#8220;don&#8217;t think what they&#8217;re asking is fair&#8221; is kind of a strange conjunction, I think I see what he means). I wonder if Jorge would be suited for the front office post-retirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197134</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197134</guid>
		<description>[2] et al ... Hence the word &quot;arguably.&quot; There are still many, like myself, who read the Times and prefer it over many other papers. Is it the best? No. Is it still among the most reputable in terms of journalism? Yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[2] et al &#8230; Hence the word &#8220;arguably.&#8221; There are still many, like myself, who read the Times and prefer it over many other papers. Is it the best? No. Is it still among the most reputable in terms of journalism? Yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197133</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:45:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197133</guid>
		<description>And yet Fred Hiatt kills the WaPo with the constant backing of neocon drivel while the publisher tries to charge lobbyists for access.

The WSJ is fine for business but their international reporting is barely adequate.

P.s. The Times is selling their Sox stake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet Fred Hiatt kills the WaPo with the constant backing of neocon drivel while the publisher tries to charge lobbyists for access.</p>
<p>The WSJ is fine for business but their international reporting is barely adequate.</p>
<p>P.s. The Times is selling their Sox stake.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197132</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197132</guid>
		<description>To paraphrase Churchill, the NYT is the worst newspaper except for all the others. although I think the sports section is their worst section.

Anyway, its disappointing, although probably unsurprising, that so many critics of the PED era ignore what Paxton Crawford said about the RS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To paraphrase Churchill, the NYT is the worst newspaper except for all the others. although I think the sports section is their worst section.</p>
<p>Anyway, its disappointing, although probably unsurprising, that so many critics of the PED era ignore what Paxton Crawford said about the RS.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197131</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197131</guid>
		<description>The NY Times is the most respected brand, but I&#039;ve given it up for The Economist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NY Times is the most respected brand, but I&#8217;ve given it up for The Economist.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197130</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197130</guid>
		<description>[12] That should be most, not all. Clemens&#039; alleged use started in Toronto, so that would place him in the cross hairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[12] That should be most, not all. Clemens&#8217; alleged use started in Toronto, so that would place him in the cross hairs.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197129</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197129</guid>
		<description>[11] Fair enough, but shouldn&#039;t we also be questioning the impact of substances like HGH? For some reason, everyone prefers to ignore the studies that suggest no PE impact. Even the Clemens hearing featured a panel of scientists saying the very same thing, but I guess everyone mis-remembered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[11] Fair enough, but shouldn&#8217;t we also be questioning the impact of substances like HGH? For some reason, everyone prefers to ignore the studies that suggest no PE impact. Even the Clemens hearing featured a panel of scientists saying the very same thing, but I guess everyone mis-remembered.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197128</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197128</guid>
		<description>[4] I definitely diagree with your point about the steroid scandals diminishing the 1990s because all of the incidents took place AFTER that period. Regardless, steroids were not only rampant, but tacitly accepted in the game. The fact that several Yankees just happened to be among the selective names exposed means very little to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[4] I definitely diagree with your point about the steroid scandals diminishing the 1990s because all of the incidents took place AFTER that period. Regardless, steroids were not only rampant, but tacitly accepted in the game. The fact that several Yankees just happened to be among the selective names exposed means very little to me.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197127</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197127</guid>
		<description>[6] Yes, every team is suspect.  But the Yankees dynasty of the 90s was the best--arguably one of the greatest of the last century--so its virtues and vices are magnified.  If people question how much of a boost the Bash Bros got in the 1980s, then so much more will they question how much extra help the Yankees got in winning four WS in six years, employing the likes of Roger Clemens to help them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[6] Yes, every team is suspect.  But the Yankees dynasty of the 90s was the best&#8211;arguably one of the greatest of the last century&#8211;so its virtues and vices are magnified.  If people question how much of a boost the Bash Bros got in the 1980s, then so much more will they question how much extra help the Yankees got in winning four WS in six years, employing the likes of Roger Clemens to help them.</p>
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		<title>By: mrm1970</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197126</link>
		<dc:creator>mrm1970</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197126</guid>
		<description>Every Times article about the Yankees, their fans, their ballpark and their players should note that the Times owns part of the Boston Red Sox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every Times article about the Yankees, their fans, their ballpark and their players should note that the Times owns part of the Boston Red Sox.</p>
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		<title>By: RagingTartabull</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197125</link>
		<dc:creator>RagingTartabull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197125</guid>
		<description>As far as The Times being the most reputable name in (print) journalism, I think people&#039;s political biases might be coloring their reaction to that point just a bit. We all know the troubles newspapers face, but you&#039;d be pretty hard pressed to find a more respected paper than The Times, the only ones that come close are WaPo and the Journal.

I think Toure is a legitimately talented writer, but he is so far off base here it is laughable. There is really no need to rehash every asinine thing he wrote in here, but suffice it to say that calling Selena Roberts&#039; reporting efforts &quot;meticulous&quot; should immediately raise red flags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as The Times being the most reputable name in (print) journalism, I think people&#8217;s political biases might be coloring their reaction to that point just a bit. We all know the troubles newspapers face, but you&#8217;d be pretty hard pressed to find a more respected paper than The Times, the only ones that come close are WaPo and the Journal.</p>
<p>I think Toure is a legitimately talented writer, but he is so far off base here it is laughable. There is really no need to rehash every asinine thing he wrote in here, but suffice it to say that calling Selena Roberts&#8217; reporting efforts &#8220;meticulous&#8221; should immediately raise red flags.</p>
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		<title>By: Sliced Bread</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/07/30/yankee-panky-toure-de-farce/#comment-197124</link>
		<dc:creator>Sliced Bread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=22137#comment-197124</guid>
		<description>speaking of tabloids, the Daily News put a story about a guy who&#039;s been busted twice for having sex with the same horse -- on page 2.

Page 2, so we wouldn&#039;t miss it.

While I applaud the News for getting the word &quot;buggery&quot; onto page 2, I think they missed a few opportunities with their tepid headline &quot;He&#039;s a repeat horse rapist.&quot;

I&#039;da gone with &quot;Man&#039;s Best Friend Is A Two Trick Pony.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>speaking of tabloids, the Daily News put a story about a guy who&#8217;s been busted twice for having sex with the same horse &#8212; on page 2.</p>
<p>Page 2, so we wouldn&#8217;t miss it.</p>
<p>While I applaud the News for getting the word &#8220;buggery&#8221; onto page 2, I think they missed a few opportunities with their tepid headline &#8220;He&#8217;s a repeat horse rapist.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;da gone with &#8220;Man&#8217;s Best Friend Is A Two Trick Pony.&#8221;</p>
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