Comments on: “We just liked the matchup much better.” http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Sun, 26 May 2013 00:58:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230662 OldYanksFan Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:30:03 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230662 [87] Agreed. Girardi's FLAW is his overmanagement of the BP. He is too swayed by SSS and matchups. However, the Angels won NOT because of Mike Scioscia, but because 2 shitty hitters (Jeff Mathis: .211 .288 .308) performed while 4 decent to great hitters (PS: Cano-.200, Melky-.200, Swish-.136, Tex-.120) did not. Scioscia managed terribly... like leaving Mathias in at 3rd base. Are we talking about a Scioscia loss? Over the years, Scioscia has made many glaring errors (gut feelings I guess). But they still beat us. Why? Because their players performed when it was needed. And lets add JD (.214 .241 .357 .599) to the above list of 4. If I told you 2 weeks ago that in the first 6 PS games, 5 of our STARTERS would have an OPS under .600, with 3 of them having an OPS under .500, how many games would you guess we had won of the 6? 2 of them? 3? Our SP, BP, ARod and Jeter have us ahead, while we should be on life support. I'll say it for the 4th time. Fuck Girardi, Scioscia, the coaches and the GMs! If we don't hit, we don't win. Das it! [87] Agreed. Girardi’s FLAW is his overmanagement of the BP. He is too swayed by SSS and matchups. However, the Angels won NOT because of Mike Scioscia, but because 2 shitty hitters (Jeff Mathis: .211 .288 .308) performed while 4 decent to great hitters (PS: Cano-.200, Melky-.200, Swish-.136, Tex-.120) did not.

Scioscia managed terribly… like leaving Mathias in at 3rd base. Are we talking about a Scioscia loss? Over the years, Scioscia has made many glaring errors (gut feelings I guess). But they still beat us. Why?

Because their players performed when it was needed.
And lets add JD (.214 .241 .357 .599) to the above list of 4.

If I told you 2 weeks ago that in the first 6 PS games, 5 of our STARTERS would have an OPS under .600, with 3 of them having an OPS under .500, how many games would you guess we had won of the 6? 2 of them? 3?

Our SP, BP, ARod and Jeter have us ahead, while we should be on life support.

I’ll say it for the 4th time.
Fuck Girardi, Scioscia, the coaches and the GMs!
If we don’t hit, we don’t win.
Das it!

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230661 The Hawk Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:53:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230661 [85] <i>Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss. The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss. </i> It would be hard for a manager to contribute more than the players on the field, in any capacity. Impossible, maybe. Everyone understands some of the hitters aren't hitting. It has been noted many times, before and after Girardi going to Aceves. I think the problem is that Girardi contributed more than a a manager ought to, in other words, he over-managed, he butted his way into a loss that he needn't have contributed as much to as he did. [85] Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss.
The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss.

It would be hard for a manager to contribute more than the players on the field, in any capacity. Impossible, maybe. Everyone understands some of the hitters aren’t hitting. It has been noted many times, before and after Girardi going to Aceves. I think the problem is that Girardi contributed more than a a manager ought to, in other words, he over-managed, he butted his way into a loss that he needn’t have contributed as much to as he did.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230660 Paul Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:29:49 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230660 [84] Well, that's Girardi, to say nothing of his development of Coke and Robertson. I mean, the reason people are even harping on the use of the bullpen is because the guy created the bullpen in the first place. [84] Well, that’s Girardi, to say nothing of his development of Coke and Robertson. I mean, the reason people are even harping on the use of the bullpen is because the guy created the bullpen in the first place.

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230659 OldYanksFan Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:26:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230659 If Girardi doesn't pull some of that shit, yes.... We could have won. Maybe. Extra innings, Away park, Mo and Phil burnt, Matsui out..... but still, Yes.... we could have won. So, while Girardi did NOT lose this game, he did contribute to the loss. I myself, prefer to look at the players rather then the manager. I prefer to believe that the players impact on the game is far, far greater then the managers, which when all is said and done, is ALWAYS guess work. I prefer to think that: a hit, HBP or BB by Cano (1st and 2nd, no out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger a hit, HBP, BB, grond ball, long fly by Swisher (1st and 3rd, 1 out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger a hit, HBP or BB by Melky (1st and 3nd, 2 out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger And that identical situation happened again, with another 3 chances to 'could have' Won blown. And there were other chances. So yes, Girardi had a TERRIBLE game and contributed to the loss. But a number of other failures also contributed to the loss. The players could have made Girardi's moves mute. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [70] "And they may have lost none but for Girardi." Again, I guess this MAY be true, but again, I really think it is much MORE true that " they may have lost none but for..." Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599, Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481, Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539, Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390 or Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459. A manager has a number of bullets in his gun. But if they all misfire, he's fucked. If ARod had hit well in previoius years PS games, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the losses. Other players performed worse. And had Girardi acted differently last night, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the loss. The players, the guys who ABSOLUTELY have direct impact on the outcome, performed worse. I am NOT defending Joe. He shit the bed last night. One guy, who never swings a bat of throws a pitch, had a very shitty game. And he certainly shared the blame for failing at his job last night. But WHY is everyone here ignoring all the other player opportunities to Win this game? Forget Girardi. This team wins on a combination of very good pitching and thunderous hitting. That's what got us here. And that's what will get us further. I said it in [13] of the previous post. We will NOT win the WS without quality, timely hitting. And if we get it, Girardi is out of the picture. Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss. The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss. If Girardi doesn’t pull some of that shit, yes….
We could have won. Maybe. Extra innings, Away park, Mo and Phil burnt, Matsui out….. but still, Yes…. we could have won.
So, while Girardi did NOT lose this game, he did contribute to the loss.

I myself, prefer to look at the players rather then the manager.
I prefer to believe that the players impact on the game is far, far greater then the managers, which when all is said and done, is ALWAYS guess work.

I prefer to think that:
a hit, HBP or BB by Cano (1st and 2nd, no out), makes the ‘could have’ Won much stronger
a hit, HBP, BB, grond ball, long fly by Swisher (1st and 3rd, 1 out), makes the ‘could have’ Won much stronger
a hit, HBP or BB by Melky (1st and 3nd, 2 out), makes the ‘could have’ Won much stronger

And that identical situation happened again, with another 3 chances to ‘could have’ Won blown.
And there were other chances.

So yes, Girardi had a TERRIBLE game and contributed to the loss.
But a number of other failures also contributed to the loss.
The players could have made Girardi’s moves mute.
————————————————————————————-
[70] “And they may have lost none but for Girardi.”

Again, I guess this MAY be true, but again, I really think it is much MORE true that ” they may have lost none but for…” Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599, Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481, Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539, Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390 or Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459.

A manager has a number of bullets in his gun. But if they all misfire, he’s fucked.

If ARod had hit well in previoius years PS games, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the losses. Other players performed worse. And had Girardi acted differently last night, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the loss. The players, the guys who ABSOLUTELY have direct impact on the outcome, performed worse.

I am NOT defending Joe. He shit the bed last night. One guy, who never swings a bat of throws a pitch, had a very shitty game. And he certainly shared the blame for failing at his job last night.
But WHY is everyone here ignoring all the other player opportunities to Win this game?

Forget Girardi. This team wins on a combination of very good pitching and thunderous hitting. That’s what got us here. And that’s what will get us further. I said it in [13] of the previous post.

We will NOT win the WS without quality, timely hitting.
And if we get it, Girardi is out of the picture.

Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss.
The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss.

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230658 Rich Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:19:04 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230658 [82] Virtually everyone has noted how well the pen has pitched in the postseason. Besides Mariano being great, a large reason for their effectiveness has been Robertson's work getting out of that jam in the Minnesota series. [82] Virtually everyone has noted how well the pen has pitched in the postseason. Besides Mariano being great, a large reason for their effectiveness has been Robertson’s work getting out of that jam in the Minnesota series.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230657 Paul Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:13:12 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230657 [81] Yeah, I'm not that mad at Andy. But grooving one to Vlad with a runner on was pretty silly. [81] Yeah, I’m not that mad at Andy. But grooving one to Vlad with a runner on was pretty silly.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230656 Paul Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:11:59 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230656 "Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories" Exactly. And it's turned out pretty darn well. The guy is thinking about what types of pitches, not just handedness, that hitters like. That's pretty advanced shit. No wonder he didn't want to defend it. Again, what's the bullpen's post-season ERA? Why does no one want to discuss that? Cause you can't criticize one move in isolation from the entire strategy. Well, you can. It just doesn't mean much. “Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories”

Exactly. And it’s turned out pretty darn well. The guy is thinking about what types of pitches, not just handedness, that hitters like. That’s pretty advanced shit. No wonder he didn’t want to defend it.

Again, what’s the bullpen’s post-season ERA? Why does no one want to discuss that? Cause you can’t criticize one move in isolation from the entire strategy. Well, you can. It just doesn’t mean much.

]]> By: rbj http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230655 rbj Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:10:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230655 Question Girardi all you want -- it is deserved. But if just one Yankee hitter had come through with RISP, it wouldn't have gotten to the 11th. Heck, I can't even get mad with Andy over the Vlad homer. That's going to happen, maybe not as frequently these days, but Vlad's still gonna bite you. Question Girardi all you want — it is deserved. But if just one Yankee hitter had come through with RISP, it wouldn’t have gotten to the 11th. Heck, I can’t even get mad with Andy over the Vlad homer. That’s going to happen, maybe not as frequently these days, but Vlad’s still gonna bite you.

]]> By: seamus http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230654 seamus Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:09:08 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230654 [77] I don't know much about FIP but I doubt I can trust anything that makes his June look bad. [77] I don’t know much about FIP but I doubt I can trust anything that makes his June look bad.

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230653 The Hawk Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:00:19 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230653 [77] I think based on his work in the ALDS alone, he should have been left alone till it was absolutely necessary. Aceves didn't look good from the start. [77] I think based on his work in the ALDS alone, he should have been left alone till it was absolutely necessary. Aceves didn’t look good from the start.

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230652 The Hawk Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:57:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230652 [75] Yeah, the reason I said "move(s)" with the "s" in parentheses was because the PH begat Hairston instead of Gardner if LF. It really is only one move, but one which, once made, necessitated the second (as Hairston > Damon - I <i>guess</i> - in LF). [75] Yeah, the reason I said “move(s)” with the “s” in parentheses was because the PH begat Hairston instead of Gardner if LF.

It really is only one move, but one which, once made, necessitated the second (as Hairston > Damon – I guess – in LF).

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230651 Rich Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:57:02 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230651 Aveve's FIP by month: S-O 1.90 16.2 A 4.04 19 IP J 5.56 15 IP J 4.41 13.2 IP M 3.20 19 IP So he had two good months of pitching at the beginning and the end of the season (35.2 IP) sandwiched around there not so good months 47.2 IP). I don't see how that makes him trustworthy. Aveve’s FIP by month:

S-O 1.90 16.2
A 4.04 19 IP
J 5.56 15 IP
J 4.41 13.2 IP
M 3.20 19 IP

So he had two good months of pitching at the beginning and the end of the season (35.2 IP) sandwiched around there not so good months 47.2 IP). I don’t see how that makes him trustworthy.

]]> By: Ken_P http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230650 Ken_P Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:53:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230650 [63] Yes, there's no way of telling if the Yankees would have scored in the top of the 12th, or if the Angels would have scored in the bottom of the 12th. The point is, though, that not scoring in the top of the 12th is better than not playing the 12th at all, which is what happened. The managers job is to utilize the roster so that the team has the best chance of winning. He can't guarantee anything, but deploying the right players at the right time can make a big difference. Girardi failed miserably at that last night. [63] Yes, there’s no way of telling if the Yankees would have scored in the top of the 12th, or if the Angels would have scored in the bottom of the 12th. The point is, though, that not scoring in the top of the 12th is better than not playing the 12th at all, which is what happened. The managers job is to utilize the roster so that the team has the best chance of winning. He can’t guarantee anything, but deploying the right players at the right time can make a big difference. Girardi failed miserably at that last night.

]]> By: seamus http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230649 seamus Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:52:18 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230649 [74] I agree that I'd rather have Gardner but the move itself of moving Hairston into the OF actually improved our defense. But yes, if Gardner was out there we'd be much better off. The splits aren't as obvious as they seem since Hairston hit .345 against lefties in 2008 but it is a worthwhile point. [74] I agree that I’d rather have Gardner but the move itself of moving Hairston into the OF actually improved our defense. But yes, if Gardner was out there we’d be much better off. The splits aren’t as obvious as they seem since Hairston hit .345 against lefties in 2008 but it is a worthwhile point.

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230648 The Hawk Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:46:48 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230648 [72] I'd rather have Gardner in the field though, and according to the recap above, Gardner is better against lefties. Either way, there were two outs already and it hamstrung the team defensively for at best a nominal upgrade at the plate - not the wisest course late in the game. [72] I’d rather have Gardner in the field though, and according to the recap above, Gardner is better against lefties. Either way, there were two outs already and it hamstrung the team defensively for at best a nominal upgrade at the plate – not the wisest course late in the game.

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230647 Rich Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:35:13 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230647 [59] Where was he standing? You can go to your mouth off the mound. Can you spit? [59] Where was he standing?

You can go to your mouth off the mound. Can you spit?

]]> By: seamus http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230646 seamus Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:32:51 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230646 [66] I see only one Hairston move that can be questioned and a lot of folks backed it in the game thread for good reason - because Gardner doesn't hit lefties well. If Hairston doesn't PH for Gardner you move Gardner to CF in the 10th inning anyhow. Once Hairston PH for Gardner, moving him to LF was the right move. I really don't see a better move at that time so I'm not clear what the issue is with Hairston going into LF. I love how Girardi has been using the bullpen. While folks here are focusing on lefty-righty matchups, Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories. I think this is good. With our offense, even with the pinch runners in there, and the starts we've been getting there is no reason our bullpen should see letting in 2 runs over 4 2/3 as a problem. Bottom line is that because we're not scoring runs we're having to go deeper in these games than we would normally expect. Girardi is playing the odds which quite honestly should be in our favor except that our #9 hitter is our 6th best hitter. 6 of our 9 starters are hitting worse than their regular season averages in this series. I don't have the other stats handy sorry. On another note, Melky is our 6th best hitter so far in this series. Not our worst so stop pretending he is our worst. Aceves had a 2.51 ERA in September and had thrown 3.1 innings of shutout ball in October coming into this series. No, citing his mid-season dead arm period ERA to claim that he somehow had huge early season and late season splits is not accurate. [66] I see only one Hairston move that can be questioned and a lot of folks backed it in the game thread for good reason – because Gardner doesn’t hit lefties well. If Hairston doesn’t PH for Gardner you move Gardner to CF in the 10th inning anyhow. Once Hairston PH for Gardner, moving him to LF was the right move. I really don’t see a better move at that time so I’m not clear what the issue is with Hairston going into LF.

I love how Girardi has been using the bullpen. While folks here are focusing on lefty-righty matchups, Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories. I think this is good. With our offense, even with the pinch runners in there, and the starts we’ve been getting there is no reason our bullpen should see letting in 2 runs over 4 2/3 as a problem. Bottom line is that because we’re not scoring runs we’re having to go deeper in these games than we would normally expect. Girardi is playing the odds which quite honestly should be in our favor except that our #9 hitter is our 6th best hitter. 6 of our 9 starters are hitting worse than their regular season averages in this series. I don’t have the other stats handy sorry.

On another note, Melky is our 6th best hitter so far in this series. Not our worst so stop pretending he is our worst. Aceves had a 2.51 ERA in September and had thrown 3.1 innings of shutout ball in October coming into this series. No, citing his mid-season dead arm period ERA to claim that he somehow had huge early season and late season splits is not accurate.

]]> By: Rich http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230645 Rich Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:29:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230645 [70] And they may have lost none but for Girardi. [70] And they may have lost none but for Girardi.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230644 Paul Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:25:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230644 Via NoMaas: Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599 Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481 Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539 Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390 Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459 And the Yankees have only lost one game this post-season... Via NoMaas:

Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599
Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481
Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539
Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390
Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459

And the Yankees have only lost one game this post-season…

]]> By: seamus http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/10/19/we-just-liked-the-matchup-much-better/#comment-230643 seamus Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:19:59 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=25248#comment-230643 [67] Putting aside the back to back issue with Marte/Coke with I agree with, Chamberlain pitched 1/3 frame because he sucked. Marte should never pitch more than to back to back lefties. And neither should Coke. [67] Putting aside the back to back issue with Marte/Coke with I agree with, Chamberlain pitched 1/3 frame because he sucked. Marte should never pitch more than to back to back lefties. And neither should Coke.

]]>