Comments on: Where They Rank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:15:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: a.O http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247158 a.O Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:16:07 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247158 [32] Makes good sense to me. [32] Makes good sense to me.

]]> By: Joel http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247157 Joel Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:58:00 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247157 [31] I just think there is a certain group of baseball people out there that thinks Cano is headed toward MVP-like super-stardom. I don't see Cano becoming that player. So why not shop him for a legit super-star? [31] I just think there is a certain group of baseball people out there that thinks Cano is headed toward MVP-like super-stardom. I don’t see Cano becoming that player. So why not shop him for a legit super-star?

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247156 Paul Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:24:50 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247156 The more I see of Cano the more I think he's another Soriano but without the Grade A speed or power but with a bit better stroke. And Sori also looked very good at 26 but not in the post-season. What about Cano+ for Matt Kemp? Who are other young OF bats that might be available? Ryan Braun? Grady Sizemore? The more I see of Cano the more I think he’s another Soriano but without the Grade A speed or power but with a bit better stroke. And Sori also looked very good at 26 but not in the post-season.

What about Cano+ for Matt Kemp? Who are other young OF bats that might be available? Ryan Braun? Grady Sizemore?

]]> By: a.O http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247155 a.O Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:21:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247155 Robbie has a great swing (obviously) and he was impressive, to say the least, with the glove this year. But he is clearly a not a smart ballplayer. He got owned throughout the postseason. He just can't adjust and he probably is close to his peak regular-season performance. Although I would not be looking to trade him, he would make a nice chip to get someone like Doc, for example. Available but not actively on the market. I think that might have been the original point, in #10, but I'll let Joel speak for himself. As for Leche, he should be actively shopped, especially if Damon is coming back next year. Gardy deserves a shot at CF, IMHO. Whatever you can say about Robbie's upside, it aint true for Leche. Robbie has a great swing (obviously) and he was impressive, to say the least, with the glove this year. But he is clearly a not a smart ballplayer. He got owned throughout the postseason. He just can’t adjust and he probably is close to his peak regular-season performance.

Although I would not be looking to trade him, he would make a nice chip to get someone like Doc, for example. Available but not actively on the market. I think that might have been the original point, in #10, but I’ll let Joel speak for himself.

As for Leche, he should be actively shopped, especially if Damon is coming back next year. Gardy deserves a shot at CF, IMHO. Whatever you can say about Robbie’s upside, it aint true for Leche.

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247154 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:59:51 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247154 [26] <blockquote>But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvmentl</blockquote> Ya Just Can't... (my first blockquote! Huzzzah!!) [26]
But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvmentl

Ya Just Can’t…

(my first blockquote! Huzzzah!!)

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247153 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:43:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247153 [27] Keep sparkling, weeping. you're #27! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCLyMxZA1LY&feature=PlayList&p=A15B42631B765BCA&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11 [27] Keep sparkling, weeping. you’re #27!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCLyMxZA1LY&feature=PlayList&p=A15B42631B765BCA&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11

]]> By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247152 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:40:47 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247152 [26] "But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvment:" Ya just can't... [26] “But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvment:”

Ya just can’t…

]]> By: weeping for brunnhilde http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247151 weeping for brunnhilde Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:35:21 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247151 Fuck, I think I'm in serious withdrawal. How many days til pitchers and catchers? Oh, dark, dark, dark... Fuck, I think I’m in serious withdrawal.

How many days til pitchers and catchers?

Oh, dark, dark, dark…

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247150 monkeypants Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:20:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247150 [25] Of course, having an awful year like 2008 shows the ability to decline rapidly. If OPS+ is a precise measure, then yes he had his best year and showed improvement. But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvment: BA .297, .342, .306, .271, 320 OBP .320, .365, .353, .305, .352 SLG .458, .525, .488, .410, .520 BB 16, 18, 39, 26, 30 K 68, 54, 85, 65, 63 This strikes me as pretty typical for players whose production is tied so closely to BA. In seasons when he hits .320, he's really good. When he hits .290, he's less good. I don't think he'll ever be able to "control" his BA, and I don't think he's suddenly going to learn to command the strike zone. He may add a bit of power. But I really suspect that this year will be about as good as he gets, and that's not a bad thing. [25] Of course, having an awful year like 2008 shows the ability to decline rapidly. If OPS+ is a precise measure, then yes he had his best year and showed improvement. But if you look at his entire career, every aspect is up and down with no real pattern of improvment:

BA .297, .342, .306, .271, 320
OBP .320, .365, .353, .305, .352
SLG .458, .525, .488, .410, .520
BB 16, 18, 39, 26, 30
K 68, 54, 85, 65, 63

This strikes me as pretty typical for players whose production is tied so closely to BA. In seasons when he hits .320, he’s really good. When he hits .290, he’s less good. I don’t think he’ll ever be able to “control” his BA, and I don’t think he’s suddenly going to learn to command the strike zone. He may add a bit of power.

But I really suspect that this year will be about as good as he gets, and that’s not a bad thing.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247149 williamnyy23 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:09:06 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247149 [23] I think we've seen Cano improve defensively, which counts. Also, I think bouncing back off of an awful 2008 also shows an ability to improve. Most notably, Cano did improve his power production, which is something that he can continue to boost. After all, Cano's OPS+ was the highest of his career, so it's not like he is really standing in place. Cano is already an all star level player, so any further "improvement" is likely to be incremental. Otherwise, he'll be entering future hall of famer territory. Basically, I just think Cano needs to tweak a few areas of his game (more consistent defensively, slightly better plate discipline, better hitting with RISP). Continued small improvements in those areas should ensure Cano remains a star 2B for the next 5+ years. [23] I think we’ve seen Cano improve defensively, which counts. Also, I think bouncing back off of an awful 2008 also shows an ability to improve. Most notably, Cano did improve his power production, which is something that he can continue to boost. After all, Cano’s OPS+ was the highest of his career, so it’s not like he is really standing in place. Cano is already an all star level player, so any further “improvement” is likely to be incremental. Otherwise, he’ll be entering future hall of famer territory. Basically, I just think Cano needs to tweak a few areas of his game (more consistent defensively, slightly better plate discipline, better hitting with RISP). Continued small improvements in those areas should ensure Cano remains a star 2B for the next 5+ years.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247148 monkeypants Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:02:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247148 [23] Oh yeah, I forgot to add, that I *do* think he is very valuable "as is", even if I do not expect any significant improvement over the next few years. [23] Oh yeah, I forgot to add, that I *do* think he is very valuable “as is”, even if I do not expect any significant improvement over the next few years.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247147 monkeypants Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:01:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247147 [22] I would have more confidence in Robbie improve if I saw any pattern of progress. But he seems largely the same player this year as he was when he was a rookie (or perhaps better, his second year). He has added a few walks per year, but even his walk rate is largely unchanged the last three years. So yes, maybe he improves a bit when he enters his peak seasons. But I think that he is one of those rare players who has a sort of 'plateau' career (Adam Dunn comes to mind, as a very positive comparison). And given how much of his game is tied to batting average, this should work for him until his bat starts to slow...at 29 or 33 or 35 or 39. We'll have to see. [22] I would have more confidence in Robbie improve if I saw any pattern of progress. But he seems largely the same player this year as he was when he was a rookie (or perhaps better, his second year). He has added a few walks per year, but even his walk rate is largely unchanged the last three years.

So yes, maybe he improves a bit when he enters his peak seasons. But I think that he is one of those rare players who has a sort of ‘plateau’ career (Adam Dunn comes to mind, as a very positive comparison). And given how much of his game is tied to batting average, this should work for him until his bat starts to slow…at 29 or 33 or 35 or 39. We’ll have to see.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247146 williamnyy23 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:40:43 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247146 Cano may be what he is, but that is still very good. Having said that, I think it is very unfair to suggest that a 26 year old has little room for improvement. Cano hasn't even entered his prime. Any improvement on his 2006, 2007 and 2009 numbers make him a flat out MVP candidate. With a roster of offensive players on the other side of 30, I don't think the Yankees should be looking to trade Cano. It's easy to look at his post season and think he can't hit good pitching, but then what does that mean about Tex? Also, it completely ignores that he had an .892 OPS in the ALCS and a 1.175 ALDS in 2007. In other words, it would be rather foolish to draw conclusions on Cano based on a bad ALDS and World Series. If the Arod saga has taught us anything, it should be that making judgments based on small samples is a recipe for looking for foolish. Cano may be what he is, but that is still very good. Having said that, I think it is very unfair to suggest that a 26 year old has little room for improvement. Cano hasn’t even entered his prime. Any improvement on his 2006, 2007 and 2009 numbers make him a flat out MVP candidate. With a roster of offensive players on the other side of 30, I don’t think the Yankees should be looking to trade Cano.

It’s easy to look at his post season and think he can’t hit good pitching, but then what does that mean about Tex? Also, it completely ignores that he had an .892 OPS in the ALCS and a 1.175 ALDS in 2007. In other words, it would be rather foolish to draw conclusions on Cano based on a bad ALDS and World Series. If the Arod saga has taught us anything, it should be that making judgments based on small samples is a recipe for looking for foolish.

]]> By: monkeypants http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247145 monkeypants Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:33:22 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247145 [20] A-Rod matured a lot, presumably, but how much did it really affect his play? His numbers were right in line with his career numbers. I'm pretty certain the Robbie is what he is, and that at age 27 we will not see much improvement from him. That said, he is a very valuable commodity at middle infield, on a team with few position prospects and few impact young players. Moreover, is tied up at a relative value. He should not be traded except in the most extreme circumstances. [20] A-Rod matured a lot, presumably, but how much did it really affect his play? His numbers were right in line with his career numbers.

I’m pretty certain the Robbie is what he is, and that at age 27 we will not see much improvement from him. That said, he is a very valuable commodity at middle infield, on a team with few position prospects and few impact young players. Moreover, is tied up at a relative value. He should not be traded except in the most extreme circumstances.

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247144 OldYanksFan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:10:36 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247144 [18] Really? ARod is 35 and I though he matured a lot this year, and that his play reflected it. Robbie is a star in New York and a relatively newfound multimillionaire. That is a lot to handle for a kid from the DR. Now maybe this is it for him, and if so.... he still ain't so bad. But I wouldn't be surprised to see his baseball head mature... especially as the old guard fades away. [18] Really? ARod is 35 and I though he matured a lot this year, and that his play reflected it. Robbie is a star in New York and a relatively newfound multimillionaire. That is a lot to handle for a kid from the DR. Now maybe this is it for him, and if so…. he still ain’t so bad. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see his baseball head mature… especially as the old guard fades away.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247143 ms october Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:42:36 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247143 frosty can be maddening but i think he is a someone you keep. he and dustbin are basically tied for third with a wrc of 103.8, and if zobrist has the year he had this year next year i will print this post out and eat it. [17] according to uzr he is in the bottom third defensively. i would like to the defensive metrics to continue to improve, and capture more things - for example i think robbie turns a double play better than most second basemen. frosty can be maddening but i think he is a someone you keep.
he and dustbin are basically tied for third with a wrc of 103.8, and if zobrist has the year he had this year next year i will print this post out and eat it.

[17] according to uzr he is in the bottom third defensively.
i would like to the defensive metrics to continue to improve, and capture more things – for example i think robbie turns a double play better than most second basemen.

]]> By: Joel http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247142 Joel Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:36:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247142 [17] This is it. This is who he is going to be. He's 27. I'm OK keeping him too if the right offer doesn't come along. But if some team thinks he's going to be a number-3-hitting, centerpiece player and are willing to deal, well..... [17] This is it. This is who he is going to be. He’s 27. I’m OK keeping him too if the right offer doesn’t come along. But if some team thinks he’s going to be a number-3-hitting, centerpiece player and are willing to deal, well…..

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247141 OldYanksFan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:29:32 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247141 Frankly, I hope Robiie is our 2nd baseman for the next 8 years. Yes, he is frustrating as hell, but he is a top 3 offensive 2nd baseman, and I'll guess in the top 1/3 defensively. While I won't bet on it, as he ages and matures, and gets used to being a multimillionaire, he may just start playing smarter. Frankly, I hope Robiie is our 2nd baseman for the next 8 years. Yes, he is frustrating as hell, but he is a top 3 offensive 2nd baseman, and I’ll guess in the top 1/3 defensively. While I won’t bet on it, as he ages and matures, and gets used to being a multimillionaire, he may just start playing smarter.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247140 RIYank Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:15:20 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247140 [10] [12] [14] Cano's WAR last year was 4.4, higher than Burnett's. It would be hard to find a pitcher with as much value to the team, I think. Yeah, Halladay would do it for a few years, but you'd be paying him an awful lot more than you're paying Cano. Rob is great value. [10] [12] [14]
Cano’s WAR last year was 4.4, higher than Burnett’s. It would be hard to find a pitcher with as much value to the team, I think. Yeah, Halladay would do it for a few years, but you’d be paying him an awful lot more than you’re paying Cano.
Rob is great value.

]]> By: Joel http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/09/where-they-rank/#comment-247139 Joel Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:12:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26077#comment-247139 [12] Dan Uggla. C-Money figures it out. But remember, it has to be a big arm for our "future batting champion!" [12] Dan Uggla. C-Money figures it out. But remember, it has to be a big arm for our “future batting champion!”

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