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	<title>Comments on: Cliff Corcoran&#8217;s Celebrity Hot Stove</title>
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	<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/</link>
	<description>Baseball Blog by Alex Belth about the Yankees</description>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279490</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279490</guid>
		<description>Just posted this on the new thread (Fool&#039;s Gold): Boston radio is reporting that according to Japanese media sources, the Red Sox are preparing a &quot;multi-year offer&quot; to Hideki Matsui.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just posted this on the new thread (Fool&#8217;s Gold): Boston radio is reporting that according to Japanese media sources, the Red Sox are preparing a &#8220;multi-year offer&#8221; to Hideki Matsui.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279484</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279484</guid>
		<description>[60] OYF, you pay far more attention to the Boston media than I do, but I don&#039;t think Theo offered Bay 4 yrs/$60M because he really does not want Bay - I think he made that offer because that&#039;s right about where the Sox value Bay over the next four years.  And if the Sox have proved anything over the last few years, they won&#039;t pay more than what they think a player is going to be worth.  How else do you explain them letting Damon go over $4M dollars?  Not signing Tex?  Holding very firm on Varitek last off-season?  Letting Pedro go?  Quickly signing Youk/Pedroia/Beckett to pre-arb, reasonable deals?  And so on.

No, the Sox would rather have a team filled with upside/value guys (like Smoltz, Penny, and yes Hermida) than overpay for anyone, even if that guy is arguably worth it.  And for all the kvetching over the &quot;failed&quot; Smoltz and Penny signings, they still won 95 games!

Thus, if I had to bet, the Sox aren&#039;t really interested in Holliday, mostly because he&#039;s a Boras client and they know he&#039;ll come with a premium attached.

And speaking of toeing the line on value and not overpaying, I&#039;ve heard some rumblings in Boston that folks are worried about the Sox letting Beckett go (he&#039;s a free agent after 2010) because they aren&#039;t going to offer him a contract longer than 3 years, or they won&#039;t pay him what he could get on the market, or both.  It wouldn&#039;t surprise me at all to Beckett elsewhere in 2011.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[60] OYF, you pay far more attention to the Boston media than I do, but I don&#8217;t think Theo offered Bay 4 yrs/$60M because he really does not want Bay &#8211; I think he made that offer because that&#8217;s right about where the Sox value Bay over the next four years.  And if the Sox have proved anything over the last few years, they won&#8217;t pay more than what they think a player is going to be worth.  How else do you explain them letting Damon go over $4M dollars?  Not signing Tex?  Holding very firm on Varitek last off-season?  Letting Pedro go?  Quickly signing Youk/Pedroia/Beckett to pre-arb, reasonable deals?  And so on.</p>
<p>No, the Sox would rather have a team filled with upside/value guys (like Smoltz, Penny, and yes Hermida) than overpay for anyone, even if that guy is arguably worth it.  And for all the kvetching over the &#8220;failed&#8221; Smoltz and Penny signings, they still won 95 games!</p>
<p>Thus, if I had to bet, the Sox aren&#8217;t really interested in Holliday, mostly because he&#8217;s a Boras client and they know he&#8217;ll come with a premium attached.</p>
<p>And speaking of toeing the line on value and not overpaying, I&#8217;ve heard some rumblings in Boston that folks are worried about the Sox letting Beckett go (he&#8217;s a free agent after 2010) because they aren&#8217;t going to offer him a contract longer than 3 years, or they won&#8217;t pay him what he could get on the market, or both.  It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me at all to Beckett elsewhere in 2011.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279480</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279480</guid>
		<description>[51] You are taking a lot for granted!
Posada. Jeter, Cano and Melky all did rather well in 2009.
But do you happen to remember what Posada. Jeter, Cano and Melky all did in 2008?

2008 and 2009 OPS+:
Melky: 68 and 99
Jeter: 102 and 132
Cano: 86 and 129
Swisher: 92 and 129
Posada: 103 and 133
Damon: 118 and 126 (but we have to replace him for 2010)

Does it really matter what ARod and Tex do if the SIX guys/slots above play like 2008? If they play like 2009, we can Win without an impact LFer. If they play like 2008, every with Holliday in LF, we don&#039;t beat Boston. And if 2010 is halfway between 2008 and 2009, how we replace LF and DH could be the differnce in maiking the Dividion/PS.

Frankly, with our money, I say: &quot;WHY GAMBLE&quot;?
Salary wise, we can trade JD and Nady for Holliday. I know if may be 6 years (but maybe Cashman can swing 5), but I still think it&#039;s a winning move.

Dump Molina, save $2m, and give Brains a shot. What can we lose? Maybe Brains will surprise us and post better numbers then Molina. Not that unlikely. And he sure will be better on the bases.

Hinske made $1.5m last year. Crazy NOT to bring him back for that. JHJr made $2m last year. He&#039;s better then Pena, but we could save $2m and go with Pena without that much loss.

I&#039;d say there is a reasonable shot that Matsui will do a 1 year contract to stay with the Yanks. If not, Thome is 95% of Matsui, and may even be as good or better because of YS.

JD is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT signing for one year. At 2, maybe... depending on other offers. As much as he loves being a Yankee, the guy wants to pile up numbers. He is eyeballing 3,000 hits. He is concerned with his legacy. If the Yanks really want one year of JD, they will have to overpay by $6m, and get him via Arb.

I say: Same team as last year except Holliday instead of JD, and Thome &lt;b&gt;IF necessary&lt;/b&gt;.

Outside of AJax (who really should replace MelkyGardner), we have no OFers on the farm in the next 3 years. I would front load Holliday&#039;s contract a tad (20, 19, 18, 18, 17 and 16) which at least makes a trade possible (if need be) after 4 years. The guy is 30. JD is 36. There is no reason we should not get 4 or 5 fine years from Holliday.

P.S. Theo does NOT really want Bay, hence the rather MickeyMouse offer of 4/$60. Holliday is Boston&#039;s #1 target. Theo does NOT like Bay&#039;s defense, especialy compared to Holliday&#039;s. Tex made us better and hurt the Sox. Holliday will do the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[51] You are taking a lot for granted!<br />
Posada. Jeter, Cano and Melky all did rather well in 2009.<br />
But do you happen to remember what Posada. Jeter, Cano and Melky all did in 2008?</p>
<p>2008 and 2009 OPS+:<br />
Melky: 68 and 99<br />
Jeter: 102 and 132<br />
Cano: 86 and 129<br />
Swisher: 92 and 129<br />
Posada: 103 and 133<br />
Damon: 118 and 126 (but we have to replace him for 2010)</p>
<p>Does it really matter what ARod and Tex do if the SIX guys/slots above play like 2008? If they play like 2009, we can Win without an impact LFer. If they play like 2008, every with Holliday in LF, we don&#8217;t beat Boston. And if 2010 is halfway between 2008 and 2009, how we replace LF and DH could be the differnce in maiking the Dividion/PS.</p>
<p>Frankly, with our money, I say: &#8220;WHY GAMBLE&#8221;?<br />
Salary wise, we can trade JD and Nady for Holliday. I know if may be 6 years (but maybe Cashman can swing 5), but I still think it&#8217;s a winning move.</p>
<p>Dump Molina, save $2m, and give Brains a shot. What can we lose? Maybe Brains will surprise us and post better numbers then Molina. Not that unlikely. And he sure will be better on the bases.</p>
<p>Hinske made $1.5m last year. Crazy NOT to bring him back for that. JHJr made $2m last year. He&#8217;s better then Pena, but we could save $2m and go with Pena without that much loss.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say there is a reasonable shot that Matsui will do a 1 year contract to stay with the Yanks. If not, Thome is 95% of Matsui, and may even be as good or better because of YS.</p>
<p>JD is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT signing for one year. At 2, maybe&#8230; depending on other offers. As much as he loves being a Yankee, the guy wants to pile up numbers. He is eyeballing 3,000 hits. He is concerned with his legacy. If the Yanks really want one year of JD, they will have to overpay by $6m, and get him via Arb.</p>
<p>I say: Same team as last year except Holliday instead of JD, and Thome <b>IF necessary</b>.</p>
<p>Outside of AJax (who really should replace MelkyGardner), we have no OFers on the farm in the next 3 years. I would front load Holliday&#8217;s contract a tad (20, 19, 18, 18, 17 and 16) which at least makes a trade possible (if need be) after 4 years. The guy is 30. JD is 36. There is no reason we should not get 4 or 5 fine years from Holliday.</p>
<p>P.S. Theo does NOT really want Bay, hence the rather MickeyMouse offer of 4/$60. Holliday is Boston&#8217;s #1 target. Theo does NOT like Bay&#8217;s defense, especialy compared to Holliday&#8217;s. Tex made us better and hurt the Sox. Holliday will do the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sliced Bread</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279479</link>
		<dc:creator>Sliced Bread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279479</guid>
		<description>I hate the hot stove.  I&#039;mma stay out of Cashman&#039;s kitchen for awhile.
I&#039;m going to catch up with my wife, and my DVR, and teach my three sons to be high-OPS switch-hitting Gold Glove catchers this winter. That&#039;s the new plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate the hot stove.  I&#8217;mma stay out of Cashman&#8217;s kitchen for awhile.<br />
I&#8217;m going to catch up with my wife, and my DVR, and teach my three sons to be high-OPS switch-hitting Gold Glove catchers this winter. That&#8217;s the new plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279476</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279476</guid>
		<description>[56] Yeah, the comp of Swisher:Dunn isn&#039;t really good. I just have no idea what the Yankees could get for the middle infielders. And it seems, from a distance, like the Nationals could use middle infield depth in their organization. The Dunn contract could also be burdensome to them if they wanted to make a run at Holliday.

[57] I never expect the Yanks to go cheap. But with these prospects it would be a nice surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[56] Yeah, the comp of Swisher:Dunn isn&#8217;t really good. I just have no idea what the Yankees could get for the middle infielders. And it seems, from a distance, like the Nationals could use middle infield depth in their organization. The Dunn contract could also be burdensome to them if they wanted to make a run at Holliday.</p>
<p>[57] I never expect the Yanks to go cheap. But with these prospects it would be a nice surprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279475</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279475</guid>
		<description>[55] A very fair point!  And FWIW, I think you will see the Yanks go with the kids, and have a smaller payroll - in 2011.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[55] A very fair point!  And FWIW, I think you will see the Yanks go with the kids, and have a smaller payroll &#8211; in 2011.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279474</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279474</guid>
		<description>[53] Ozzie had no use for Swisher though, and he had a pretty awful year in 2008.  I&#039;m pretty sure there&#039;s no similar enmity between Dunn and the Nats, and Dunn had an excellent year in 2009.

I&#039;d be great to get Dunn via trade, because he&#039;d be the best DH, but I don&#039;t see it happening this offseason.

I&#039;m also pretty sure that they have no problem exposing Corona (again) and Nunez in the Rule 5 draft.  Russo they will keep, and it&#039;ll be easy to have a spot for him by letting Molina walk or dropping Guzman or Towers or Mitre.  And with both Pena and Russo, they really don&#039;t need Corona or Nunez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[53] Ozzie had no use for Swisher though, and he had a pretty awful year in 2008.  I&#8217;m pretty sure there&#8217;s no similar enmity between Dunn and the Nats, and Dunn had an excellent year in 2009.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be great to get Dunn via trade, because he&#8217;d be the best DH, but I don&#8217;t see it happening this offseason.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also pretty sure that they have no problem exposing Corona (again) and Nunez in the Rule 5 draft.  Russo they will keep, and it&#8217;ll be easy to have a spot for him by letting Molina walk or dropping Guzman or Towers or Mitre.  And with both Pena and Russo, they really don&#8217;t need Corona or Nunez.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279473</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279473</guid>
		<description>[54] I&#039;m not arguing for the kids, especially not with now cheaply a good DH can be had. I just think it&#039;s very interesting, and nice, that they have the depth to compete even if they went with the plucky, gritty, and cheap Sox route. But, yeah, they&#039;ll both start in AAA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[54] I&#8217;m not arguing for the kids, especially not with now cheaply a good DH can be had. I just think it&#8217;s very interesting, and nice, that they have the depth to compete even if they went with the plucky, gritty, and cheap Sox route. But, yeah, they&#8217;ll both start in AAA.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279472</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279472</guid>
		<description>[52] et al - If Godzilla goes elsewhere, I think Thome would be a fine, fine DH.

[51] I love Montero too, but the kid has hit poorly since coming back from his injury.  I think the worst thing the Yanks could do is to rush him to the bigs now.  The extra development time will help him - I think he needs it - and there&#039;s no place for him to play everyday.  If they brought him up now, they&#039;d be wasting his major league service time with him sitting on the bench and not developing!

I also think Jackson should start the year in AAA, though I do recall arguing that with Melky playing LF full-time and Jackson/Gardner in CF, the Yanks just might save enough runs on defense to survive the hit on offense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[52] et al &#8211; If Godzilla goes elsewhere, I think Thome would be a fine, fine DH.</p>
<p>[51] I love Montero too, but the kid has hit poorly since coming back from his injury.  I think the worst thing the Yanks could do is to rush him to the bigs now.  The extra development time will help him &#8211; I think he needs it &#8211; and there&#8217;s no place for him to play everyday.  If they brought him up now, they&#8217;d be wasting his major league service time with him sitting on the bench and not developing!</p>
<p>I also think Jackson should start the year in AAA, though I do recall arguing that with Melky playing LF full-time and Jackson/Gardner in CF, the Yanks just might save enough runs on defense to survive the hit on offense.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/10/cliff-corcorans-celebrity-hot-stove/comment-page-2/#comment-279471</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26101#comment-279471</guid>
		<description>[50] Agreed. And I think the Yankees do too. It can&#039;t hurt that they saw how well it worked with Matsui and the rest of the lineup.

I&#039;ll actually be surprised if they don&#039;t sign all of Pettitte, Damon, and Matsui. It&#039;s the easiest path and probably the smartest given the market and the long-term flexibility it enables.

Either that or they make a deal. Chad At LoHud spoke to Cashman about the multiple middle infielders that are Rule 5 eligible (Russo, Corona, Nunez) and Cashman referenced the Swisher deal. Adam Dunn is the first name that comes to mind here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[50] Agreed. And I think the Yankees do too. It can&#8217;t hurt that they saw how well it worked with Matsui and the rest of the lineup.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll actually be surprised if they don&#8217;t sign all of Pettitte, Damon, and Matsui. It&#8217;s the easiest path and probably the smartest given the market and the long-term flexibility it enables.</p>
<p>Either that or they make a deal. Chad At LoHud spoke to Cashman about the multiple middle infielders that are Rule 5 eligible (Russo, Corona, Nunez) and Cashman referenced the Swisher deal. Adam Dunn is the first name that comes to mind here.</p>
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