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	<title>Comments on: The Last Word</title>
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		<title>By: Jay Jaffe</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248183</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Jaffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248183</guid>
		<description>Even if he weren&#039;t still such a master of prose, Angell&#039;s perspective would be a valuable one simply because the breadth of baseball history he witnessed firsthand — back to the days of Ruth and Gehrig, or the Gashouse Gang (dig the Dizzy Dean reference), Willie Mays in his prime in the Polo Grounds — gives him an authority on the subject that&#039;s virtually unmatched. If he sounds a bit crotchety at times, well, where the hell else are you gonna get a comparison between Cliff Lee and Hal Newhouser?

I sat down and read the piece last night, and my only beef was that it felt too short, too rushed. I wanted to read his unwritten digression about the new Yankee Stadium and his deeper thoughts about CC Sabathia; when exactly are we going to get those from a guy whose output is down to these annual summaries? I realize that print is his medium and that the pressures of the industry restrict his space, but why not produce a double-length piece for the web that we can, as Alex did, print out and read at our leisure? Seems like an opportunity missed for a guy who&#039;s got all too few innings left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if he weren&#8217;t still such a master of prose, Angell&#8217;s perspective would be a valuable one simply because the breadth of baseball history he witnessed firsthand — back to the days of Ruth and Gehrig, or the Gashouse Gang (dig the Dizzy Dean reference), Willie Mays in his prime in the Polo Grounds — gives him an authority on the subject that&#8217;s virtually unmatched. If he sounds a bit crotchety at times, well, where the hell else are you gonna get a comparison between Cliff Lee and Hal Newhouser?</p>
<p>I sat down and read the piece last night, and my only beef was that it felt too short, too rushed. I wanted to read his unwritten digression about the new Yankee Stadium and his deeper thoughts about CC Sabathia; when exactly are we going to get those from a guy whose output is down to these annual summaries? I realize that print is his medium and that the pressures of the industry restrict his space, but why not produce a double-length piece for the web that we can, as Alex did, print out and read at our leisure? Seems like an opportunity missed for a guy who&#8217;s got all too few innings left.</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248182</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248182</guid>
		<description>for those who read the article and post here about Mex, Josh Wilker has a post up about Keith Hernandez.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for those who read the article and post here about Mex, Josh Wilker has a post up about Keith Hernandez.</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248181</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248181</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t like the new layout at nomaas, but they have a fun cc-related turkey day picture up.

speaking of pictures, the smile on sugar ray&#039;s face in the top photo of the &#039;pound for pound&#039; post, reminds me of Cano.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t like the new layout at nomaas, but they have a fun cc-related turkey day picture up.</p>
<p>speaking of pictures, the smile on sugar ray&#8217;s face in the top photo of the &#8216;pound for pound&#8217; post, reminds me of Cano.</p>
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		<title>By: The Hawk</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248180</link>
		<dc:creator>The Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248180</guid>
		<description>What a great bit about Matsui. Of course I don&#039;t personally know anything about a time before our heroes talked, but I agree with the sentiment that Matsui&#039;s quasi-silence is part of his mystique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great bit about Matsui. Of course I don&#8217;t personally know anything about a time before our heroes talked, but I agree with the sentiment that Matsui&#8217;s quasi-silence is part of his mystique.</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248179</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248179</guid>
		<description>[41] i think you know the answer to that: &lt;b&gt;absolutely not&lt;/b&gt;. never!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[41] i think you know the answer to that: <b>absolutely not</b>. never!</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248178</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248178</guid>
		<description>Thelarmis: I almost hate to ask, but: cranberry sauce?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thelarmis: I almost hate to ask, but: cranberry sauce?</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248177</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248177</guid>
		<description>btw, i&#039;m thankful for the yankees winning the world series and the bronx banter!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw, i&#8217;m thankful for the yankees winning the world series and the bronx banter!</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248176</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248176</guid>
		<description>[36] i don&#039;t know about you weeping, but i&#039;m my mothers&#039; child! ; )

Happy Turkey Day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[36] i don&#8217;t know about you weeping, but i&#8217;m my mothers&#8217; child! ; )</p>
<p>Happy Turkey Day!</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248175</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248175</guid>
		<description>[35] you won&#039;t believe me, but i have indeed had turkey lurkey before. and will again - in queens tomorrow! ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[35] you won&#8217;t believe me, but i have indeed had turkey lurkey before. and will again &#8211; in queens tomorrow! ; )</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248174</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248174</guid>
		<description>[33] shaun p will be very happy with your cameo appearance here! 

hope all is well and that you&#039;ll stick around! : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[33] shaun p will be very happy with your cameo appearance here! </p>
<p>hope all is well and that you&#8217;ll stick around! : )</p>
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		<title>By: weeping for brunnhilde</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248173</link>
		<dc:creator>weeping for brunnhilde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248173</guid>
		<description>Hey, it&#039;s ws!  Long time no see!

And happy Thanksgiving everyone: who the fuck do you think yous all are?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, it&#8217;s ws!  Long time no see!</p>
<p>And happy Thanksgiving everyone: who the fuck do you think yous all are?</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248172</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248172</guid>
		<description>[33] Mr. Porter! Welcome back. We missed you during the season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[33] Mr. Porter! Welcome back. We missed you during the season.</p>
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		<title>By: patrick b</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248171</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248171</guid>
		<description>&quot;No season is complete until Roger weighs in with his re-cap&quot; -- perfectly said Alex and that&#039;s been my exact feeling for many years and consequently, I&#039;ve been really anticipating this.  I did not come to gribs (will never get over) the loss in the 2001 Serious until I read Roger&#039;s recap which put it all in beautiful perspective.  I cut it out and saved it.  Too bad it&#039;s not available online because I wish I could email to friends who don&#039;t subscribe because I really think every baseball fan should read his stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No season is complete until Roger weighs in with his re-cap&#8221; &#8212; perfectly said Alex and that&#8217;s been my exact feeling for many years and consequently, I&#8217;ve been really anticipating this.  I did not come to gribs (will never get over) the loss in the 2001 Serious until I read Roger&#8217;s recap which put it all in beautiful perspective.  I cut it out and saved it.  Too bad it&#8217;s not available online because I wish I could email to friends who don&#8217;t subscribe because I really think every baseball fan should read his stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: wsporter</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248170</link>
		<dc:creator>wsporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248170</guid>
		<description>How can you resist a line like &quot;. . . a ballplayer from the black-and-white newspaper-photograph days, before our heroes talked&quot;?  

Made my heart to skip and me to feel my grandfather was standing next to me again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you resist a line like &#8220;. . . a ballplayer from the black-and-white newspaper-photograph days, before our heroes talked&#8221;?  </p>
<p>Made my heart to skip and me to feel my grandfather was standing next to me again.</p>
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		<title>By: Yankster</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248169</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248169</guid>
		<description>[29] Wrong.

From Angell&#039;s article: &quot;[Lee] throws with an elegant flail, hiding the ball behind his hip or knee and producing it from behind his left shoulder, already in full delivery. His finish brings his left leg up astern like a semaphore, while his arm swings back across his waist.&quot;

And then he hunts his memory to recollect the same motion in another pitcher:

&quot;I thought about Dizzy Dean or Lon (the Arkansas Hummingbird) Warneke, but they were righties. Then I remembered Hal Newhouser...&quot;

And he goes on to talk about who he talked to that agreed with him. 

This kind of narrative connection of his personal baseball experience connecting two players playing 57 years (or so) years apart, is a lot of fun for me to read. Maybe because I&#039;m not the historian of the game that you are, William.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[29] Wrong.</p>
<p>From Angell&#8217;s article: &#8220;[Lee] throws with an elegant flail, hiding the ball behind his hip or knee and producing it from behind his left shoulder, already in full delivery. His finish brings his left leg up astern like a semaphore, while his arm swings back across his waist.&#8221;</p>
<p>And then he hunts his memory to recollect the same motion in another pitcher:</p>
<p>&#8220;I thought about Dizzy Dean or Lon (the Arkansas Hummingbird) Warneke, but they were righties. Then I remembered Hal Newhouser&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>And he goes on to talk about who he talked to that agreed with him. </p>
<p>This kind of narrative connection of his personal baseball experience connecting two players playing 57 years (or so) years apart, is a lot of fun for me to read. Maybe because I&#8217;m not the historian of the game that you are, William.</p>
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		<title>By: Horace Clarke Era</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248168</link>
		<dc:creator>Horace Clarke Era</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248168</guid>
		<description>Paul, welcome, and don&#039;t mind william. He&#039;s got time to do battle, strong views, and sometimes they are even valid. :) I&#039;ve defended him, and argued with him. Comes with the Banter territory.

I agree with those who see no &#039;better in my day&#039; tinge to Angell, only a remembering other days. I think he loves the game, period, and looks very closely, still, at micro-moments, signatures that help us see it better. Some people have a hot button for any hint of a &#039;wiser head&#039; or &#039;the long view&#039; - feeling it is dissing them, or current players, or claiming hierarchical preeminence. Me, I&#039;m happy to listen to a wiser head if I think they ARE one ... and Angell is, for me, many times over. The internet, talk radio, the blogosphere as a subset are all about &#039;everyone&#039;s equal, all opinions have validity&#039; ... it isn&#039;t so, in the realm of ideas. Informed opinions mean more than from-the-hip shots. (This is a general statement, not aimed at anyone at all.) There is also an element online of &#039;he ain&#039;t so big!&#039; where people like to take a shot at a star just to ... show they can, that they aren&#039;t intimidated.

The &#039;long funk&#039;? I think one needs to have a very narrow perspective not to see it, in the wake of Bonds, Clemens, congress. I&#039;d offer an irony ... that it seems to be the Yankees winning that is helping move the sport out, if Angell&#039;s right?

William, for what it is worth, the elegiac tone has ALWAYS been part of baseball. The entire &#039;you could look it up!&#039; ethos is predicated on it. &#039;You shoulda seen Koufax in his prime!&#039; Does that automatically diss CC Sabathia? And, indeed, if we want to get scientific, odds are VERY good the best today are in better shape, better trained (more sober) than most of the best of yesterday. It doesn&#039;t matter. The game is built around myths and legends. Angell&#039;s a link to some of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, welcome, and don&#8217;t mind william. He&#8217;s got time to do battle, strong views, and sometimes they are even valid. <img src='http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ve defended him, and argued with him. Comes with the Banter territory.</p>
<p>I agree with those who see no &#8216;better in my day&#8217; tinge to Angell, only a remembering other days. I think he loves the game, period, and looks very closely, still, at micro-moments, signatures that help us see it better. Some people have a hot button for any hint of a &#8216;wiser head&#8217; or &#8216;the long view&#8217; &#8211; feeling it is dissing them, or current players, or claiming hierarchical preeminence. Me, I&#8217;m happy to listen to a wiser head if I think they ARE one &#8230; and Angell is, for me, many times over. The internet, talk radio, the blogosphere as a subset are all about &#8216;everyone&#8217;s equal, all opinions have validity&#8217; &#8230; it isn&#8217;t so, in the realm of ideas. Informed opinions mean more than from-the-hip shots. (This is a general statement, not aimed at anyone at all.) There is also an element online of &#8216;he ain&#8217;t so big!&#8217; where people like to take a shot at a star just to &#8230; show they can, that they aren&#8217;t intimidated.</p>
<p>The &#8216;long funk&#8217;? I think one needs to have a very narrow perspective not to see it, in the wake of Bonds, Clemens, congress. I&#8217;d offer an irony &#8230; that it seems to be the Yankees winning that is helping move the sport out, if Angell&#8217;s right?</p>
<p>William, for what it is worth, the elegiac tone has ALWAYS been part of baseball. The entire &#8216;you could look it up!&#8217; ethos is predicated on it. &#8216;You shoulda seen Koufax in his prime!&#8217; Does that automatically diss CC Sabathia? And, indeed, if we want to get scientific, odds are VERY good the best today are in better shape, better trained (more sober) than most of the best of yesterday. It doesn&#8217;t matter. The game is built around myths and legends. Angell&#8217;s a link to some of them.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248167</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248167</guid>
		<description>[23] Angell was actually refreshing in his lack of misplaced nostalgia (most nosalgia is actually a nice thing, especially when it isn&#039;t used to denigrate the modern day). It just seems that he has changed recently. Maybe it&#039;s just me, but when I saw the Angell post, my first reaction was I hope this isn&#039;t going to be about how the game isn&#039;t as good now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[23] Angell was actually refreshing in his lack of misplaced nostalgia (most nosalgia is actually a nice thing, especially when it isn&#8217;t used to denigrate the modern day). It just seems that he has changed recently. Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but when I saw the Angell post, my first reaction was I hope this isn&#8217;t going to be about how the game isn&#8217;t as good now.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248166</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248166</guid>
		<description>[27] I certainly do not want to enforce my opinion on you, but whenever I&#039;ve read Angell of late, it seems like more of a lecture than anything else. As someone who considers himself a historian of the game (I assume you are referring to Mickey Lolich), I feel that I have a good appreciation for all of the eras of MLB and don&#039;t think this one needs to take backseat. Angell was a great baseball writer, but being a legend doesn’t mean your work is always legendary. There are many books available that provide access to Angel’s best work. If I want to get a good feel for the game today, however, I think it is better to read elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[27] I certainly do not want to enforce my opinion on you, but whenever I&#8217;ve read Angell of late, it seems like more of a lecture than anything else. As someone who considers himself a historian of the game (I assume you are referring to Mickey Lolich), I feel that I have a good appreciation for all of the eras of MLB and don&#8217;t think this one needs to take backseat. Angell was a great baseball writer, but being a legend doesn’t mean your work is always legendary. There are many books available that provide access to Angel’s best work. If I want to get a good feel for the game today, however, I think it is better to read elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248165</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248165</guid>
		<description>[24] [25] Dude, way to wax metaphysical! In consecutive comments you (a) compared ontology to epistemology, and then (b) praised AB for his &lt;i&gt;lack of negativity&lt;/i&gt;.
Bronx Banter sure gets profound in the off-season!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[24] [25] Dude, way to wax metaphysical! In consecutive comments you (a) compared ontology to epistemology, and then (b) praised AB for his <i>lack of negativity</i>.<br />
Bronx Banter sure gets profound in the off-season!</p>
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		<title>By: Yankster</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/25/the-last-word/#comment-248164</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26604#comment-248164</guid>
		<description>[22] I categorically disagree with your suggestion that he has an &quot;in my day&quot; tinge. On the other hand, I love that he conveys great moments in the game that happened before my time. Most of the great moments in baseball happened before I was born (even there is an even distribution of great moments across time). I need Angell to connect me to those historic moments and somehow he does it without disparaging the present.

 Angell has been around the game a long time and at his age, time is flying by and so when he says baseball is coming out of a funk, i think he is entitled to speak about baseball time in increments of decades. Congressional hearings on steroids and confessions by the great hitters in the game did funk things up. And noise (though perhaps not the problem) does now seem largely behind us.

There&#039;s a lot to love in the piece even though I might change a couple things, but I wouldn&#039;t change any of his jabs at bloggers or his criticism and acceptance of Arod.  I love the connection he made between Cliff Lee and the tigers pitcher whose name I don&#039;t recall but will now have to look up. I love his prediction that neither Matsui nor Damon will come back despite the playoff contributions that he goes far to honor as special despite having covered 50+ years of access. I enjoy that he reinforces that this world serious was special and that the players are special in a historic way. How can you not appreciate that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[22] I categorically disagree with your suggestion that he has an &#8220;in my day&#8221; tinge. On the other hand, I love that he conveys great moments in the game that happened before my time. Most of the great moments in baseball happened before I was born (even there is an even distribution of great moments across time). I need Angell to connect me to those historic moments and somehow he does it without disparaging the present.</p>
<p> Angell has been around the game a long time and at his age, time is flying by and so when he says baseball is coming out of a funk, i think he is entitled to speak about baseball time in increments of decades. Congressional hearings on steroids and confessions by the great hitters in the game did funk things up. And noise (though perhaps not the problem) does now seem largely behind us.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot to love in the piece even though I might change a couple things, but I wouldn&#8217;t change any of his jabs at bloggers or his criticism and acceptance of Arod.  I love the connection he made between Cliff Lee and the tigers pitcher whose name I don&#8217;t recall but will now have to look up. I love his prediction that neither Matsui nor Damon will come back despite the playoff contributions that he goes far to honor as special despite having covered 50+ years of access. I enjoy that he reinforces that this world serious was special and that the players are special in a historic way. How can you not appreciate that?</p>
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