On Granderson, besides southpaws, it seems he gets hurt by his home park. I’m not going to deny there might be more there, but I just don’t think the Tigers are going to give him away. His contract is actually reasonable even if he never finds his peak self again. Maybe if the Tigers would take a few second tier prospects – guys like Nova and McAllister plus a lower level prospect or two. Still that seems like too much. Why thin the farm for a platoon player? And I’m not convinced the Tigers take that deal. Maybe that package and take on Magglio too? It’s similar money that they would give to Matsui and Damon. Still, I don’t see Illitch giving up on next year so easily.

But I think the Granderson thing turns entirely on what ‘top prospects’ means. Detroit, as you probably know, are dying to unload salary – having backed their way into 18 million for Maggs. I suspect that a team willing to take on money doesn’t have to give up so very much. No one will take Ordonez, just as no one will take Wells (worst contract in baseball) so Tigers need money help elsewhere. Grandy vs righties in Yankee Stadium (New) is appealing. NY needs some sense of what’s going on with him. WHY is he trending down young?

But, as I say, I don’t think Cashman will deal serious talent for him, so the question is … what about less-than-serious talent? In any assessment, there’s a ‘that’s worth it’ point.

“Offering Damon arbitration seems like a good gamble to me on two levels. If he accepts you pay a high price in cash but you’re only committed to him for the season, so if he tanks you can even eat the money and let him go before the year is over. If he leaves, you get a first-round pick from whatever club signs him. Seems like a no-brainer to me.”

So the one “expert” cited in this discussion has no problem with Damon coming back, even on a pricey deal. But for the 14 million for one year, I don’t see why not to extend it to two years and $20 million. Heck offer him arbitration OR a two year $20 million deal. He gets a choice of two really good options, especially if he thinks he’d got a lot left. If he refuses both, the Yanks get the picks and can move on to Cameron.

“Paul, really, why is Melky/Gardy in CF and Grandy in left so much less ‘inspiring’ than Damon in left?”

Sorry, but platooning someone you’ve acquired for top prospects is exactly my point. And having an average bat in CF and a below average bat in LF, relative to the average at the positions, is not just uninspiring. It’s unacceptable on a championship club. Granderson and his .340 career OBP certainly doesn’t belong in the top two thirds of the lineup.

So now that we’ve agreed that Granderson is unacceptable, the question remains: Who if not Damon? Like I said, I’d be fine with Ajax, Gardner, and Melky fighting for time depending on matchups. But that’s not how the Yankees roll.

Posada, of course, was a red herring in this whole discussion. Sensible people realize he’s not a DH in 2010. And he’s not a full-time DH in 2011 either.

But guys, really, both of you have some points, both of you overstate some … and that happens in bars and blogs. I think ‘clown’ and ‘floppy shoes’ is just silly, Rich, forgive me. Paul, really, tone is 50% of any dispute. People listen to you more if you modulate it.

Neither of these two positions is as moronic as each of you suggests the other’s is! These are all judgement calls, really. It hardly bears getting so emphatic.

D in left matters less than in center. Agreed. Offence does matter more, however, and 37 year olds are a legit question mark for that. Points both ways. Grandy is an attractive talent with major worries vs lefties lately, undeniable, both ways. A platoon for 8-9 million (on the good side of it) is not bad for NY, frankly. Trading serious prospects for him? Feels like a bad idea. Seems to cut against Cashman’s philosophy, or he’d have traded prospects (pitching mostly) already.

Paul, really, why is Melky/Gardy in CF and Grandy in left so much less ‘inspiring’ than Damon in left? Remember you can platoon him. There WILL be a 4th OF. Maybe a 5th! That wouldn’t faze me, only the cost of a trade does. We can carry a defensive CF (Gardy’s better) batting 9th.

Posada sits for AJ because of AJ, not because of Posada. He needs to sit 1-2 a week, and if AJ’s made happier, that solves one of those rest days.

But this isn’t a debate worth so much agitation. Take your two minutes in the box.

So Melky Gardner in CF and Granderson in LF? Sweet baby Jesus, that’s inspiring.

“Yup, I want to trade A-Jack for Granderson. Write it down. ”

Yeah, that will be enough. I mean, while we’re at it let’s trade Montero for Verlander and Porcello.

“Damon’s defensive trend doesn’t concern you, but Granderson’s trend does?”

Ummmm, defense in LF is worth a fraction of the offense necessary to carry the position. But nah, next you’ll say Granderson is more valuable than Manny. Meanwhile, Damon only needs to field the position for one more year and perhaps not even that. Granderson would be expected to carry his position for many more years. If Granderson were a free agent, and available on a two-year contract, of course you sign him. He’s not. And won’t be. In fact, he has four years and 29 million left on his deal. So a longer contract with a shorter track record and a more precipitous drop? Brilliant analysis!

“Why do you think your man Girardi didn’t have Posada catch AJ?”

Because Burnett has a 10 dollar arm and a 10 cent head. But nice job changing the goal posts once the numbers were shown not to fit your biases. I suppose Jorge was a DH when Randy Johnson didn’t want him either? Damn, the Yankees are morons.

Really, great work. You’ve gone from being wrong and insulting to even more wrong and more insulting. Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

You do realize that Granderson was only just above average in CF, right?

Granderson could play LF for the Yankees, which would probably improve his defense.

Damon’s defensive trend doesn’t concern you, but Granderson’s trend does? Sweet.

Let’s see Granderson play 81 home games with a short porch in RF before we over emphasize his decline.

Yup, I want to trade A-Jack for Granderson. Write it down.

Why do you think your man Girardi didn’t have Posada catch AJ?

Seriously, I don’t care what you think. You’re a clown. Take off the floppy shoes and enjoy your Thanksgiving.

Then go away and ignore my posts.

As for Posada, it’s always been an issue for him. In fact, he’s gotten better back there since his earliest days and there’s been little change since. So, nice try. But if you actually look at the stats, you got nothing.

The big worry with Po is staying on the field. But when healthy he’s a top-3 catcher and not a DH.

You know that because of one bad year in the field?

This is what exactly? Oh yeah, attitude. None of us “know” anything. It’s all opinion. But I think you knew that.

Frankly, I don’t care about defense in LF so long as he gets to most balls. And he does. The arm is mostly an overblown non-issue.

Most balls? Seriously? That’s a ridiculously low bar. And the arm is a non-issue. Gotcha.

2009 WAR:

Damon: 3.0
Granderson: 3.4

Winning teams are not built on offense alone.

Granderson is what A-Jack MAY become. He may not. I would include him in the package.

More to the point, you still haven’t given a better alternative.

Yes, I have. Granderson is far less likely to decline than Damon given their respective ages.

Posada can’t block a ball in the dirt to save his life or a WP or PB. That’s not getting better with age.

As william said. It’s time to go back to ignoring you.

Agree on Posada too. But he’s kind of special as it is so it’s hard to compare him to others, especially with his late start – at the position and in the majors. He did look slow, but he’s always let balls get past him. His arm is still sound. If I had to guess, I’m with you. He’s 80% in 2010 and 50% in 2011. Still, that probably means only 1 or 2 starts a week at DH. So they’ll likely need an almost full-time DH too. Maybe that’s Damon (with a start or two a week in LF), but I’m pretty excited by the possibility of Montero working his way in there!

As much as I am VERY leary of more long/expensive contracts, we will need ONE impact OFer over the next 3 or 4 years. There’s AJax for CF and very little. It’s either one of the Big Two now, or someone serious for 2011.

Really, OF and SP, and maybe Closer, are our only real issues over the next 3 or 4 years.

At 6/$100, Holliday is year 30-35. That’s pretty prime stuff.
With Holliday, we could even DH from withing, or look for a $10m- DH (Matsui, Thome, any number).

I’m actually not that concerned about this one. I don’t see Cash going more than 2 years. If JD wants 3+ he’s gone. If he takes 2 years we can handle it, even if in the 2nd year he becomes an expensive extra OF/DH. It won’t be the first time we gave someone a year too much.

Paul, I think the JoPo worries are partly actuarial – no one catches effectively at his age, ever, and partly eyeballing – he was moving very slowly back there down the stretch. It seems reasonable to hope for one more year and be pretty damned unsure of the next year. At which point he’s a decent DH and back-up catcher. Which means we’d need a catcher AND he fills the primary DH role.

As I say, I expect the Damon/Matsui elements to be pretty easy for Cashman … he is really unlikely to go long with either (long meaning 3 years for JD and 2 for Matsui). If they insist on those, he starts figuring alternatives.

Frankly, I don’t care about defense in LF so long as he gets to most balls. And he does. The arm is mostly an overblown non-issue. If you watch the games you can see it comes up maybe once or twice a week. They got by fine this year. One more year of Damon in the field won’t kill them. And that’s if Matsui stays healthy (which he doesn’t tend to and Goldman forgets). Matsui’s skill set may age better, but will his body? In year two Damon is the DH.

More to the point, you still haven’t given a better alternative. Granderson had a worse year offensively, gets on-base less, and looks like he’s already peaked. His three-year trend line is horrid. Plus, who do you trade? And why trade anyone with Ajax a year away? Without answering those questions, you might as well say they get Braun or Ethier. It’s lame to diss one guy when you can’t come up with someone better. Like I said, I’m open to alternatives. There are just few and far between, if any.

But thanks for being so friendly!