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	<title>Comments on: Yankee Panky: Halladay or Holliday Shopping?</title>
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		<title>By: Will Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248303</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248303</guid>
		<description>[15] Throw a drum kit in any of them and it&#039;s suddenly beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[15] Throw a drum kit in any of them and it&#8217;s suddenly beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248302</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248302</guid>
		<description>oops..this one!

http://tinyurl.com/yhkwj9q</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops..this one!</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/yhkwj9q" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yhkwj9q</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248301</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248301</guid>
		<description>[13] Hey Will, checking in from 14-hours ahead always creates a skewered perspective :) 

Not that the US suburbs have a monopoly on ugly buildings..future architects will look back at 20th century Japan as the &quot;grey concrete box&quot; era...behold...

http://tinyurl.com/ykwo4wb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[13] Hey Will, checking in from 14-hours ahead always creates a skewered perspective <img src='http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Not that the US suburbs have a monopoly on ugly buildings..future architects will look back at 20th century Japan as the &#8220;grey concrete box&#8221; era&#8230;behold&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/ykwo4wb" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/ykwo4wb</a></p>
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		<title>By: Will Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248300</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248300</guid>
		<description>[12] Leave it to you, Mr. OK Jazz, to always keep it real in a different way than the rest of us do. I&#039;d still take the arm over the bat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[12] Leave it to you, Mr. OK Jazz, to always keep it real in a different way than the rest of us do. I&#8217;d still take the arm over the bat.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248299</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248299</guid>
		<description>A big &quot;NO&quot; to Holliday &amp; Halladay...and to that shockingly depressing shopping center in the photo above..yuck...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big &#8220;NO&#8221; to Holliday &amp; Halladay&#8230;and to that shockingly depressing shopping center in the photo above..yuck&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Will Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248298</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248298</guid>
		<description>[10] ... &quot;Losing hughes or chamberlain for a $16 million 1 year rental is tough to swallow&quot;... which is why the Yankees had better be prepared to sign Halladay to an extension. If the Yankees are going to trade for him, he&#039;s not going to be a rental. 

[3] ... William, you and the subsequent readers make good points about Cano. Please note that I&#039;m not suggesting the Yankees should or will trade Cano, only that his name could very well come up as one that is included in a deal. And if I&#039;m Brian Cashman, I&#039;d be foolish not to examine every potential trade chip. 

[9] I would deal either Joba, Hughes or Kennedy to get a return of Halladay in a heartbeat. Joba more so than Hughes or Kennedy. His future with the Yankees is better suited, as I&#039;ve said here for two years, as a closer. Hughes is better suited as a starter. ... And you&#039;re right about the age difference between Santana and Halladay at the points of their impending trade. However, to say that one is better than the other at this particular stage is really a toss-up. They&#039;re different types of pitchers. Santana is a strikeout, power pitcher while Halladay is a power pitcher but has more of a tendency to pitch to contact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[10] &#8230; &#8220;Losing hughes or chamberlain for a $16 million 1 year rental is tough to swallow&#8221;&#8230; which is why the Yankees had better be prepared to sign Halladay to an extension. If the Yankees are going to trade for him, he&#8217;s not going to be a rental. </p>
<p>[3] &#8230; William, you and the subsequent readers make good points about Cano. Please note that I&#8217;m not suggesting the Yankees should or will trade Cano, only that his name could very well come up as one that is included in a deal. And if I&#8217;m Brian Cashman, I&#8217;d be foolish not to examine every potential trade chip. </p>
<p>[9] I would deal either Joba, Hughes or Kennedy to get a return of Halladay in a heartbeat. Joba more so than Hughes or Kennedy. His future with the Yankees is better suited, as I&#8217;ve said here for two years, as a closer. Hughes is better suited as a starter. &#8230; And you&#8217;re right about the age difference between Santana and Halladay at the points of their impending trade. However, to say that one is better than the other at this particular stage is really a toss-up. They&#8217;re different types of pitchers. Santana is a strikeout, power pitcher while Halladay is a power pitcher but has more of a tendency to pitch to contact.</p>
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		<title>By: Yankster</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248297</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248297</guid>
		<description>[3] good points, esp. on Cano. 

I don&#039;t quite have all the math down but I don&#039;t think the Yankees are going to grow payroll. 15.75 for Halladay and 21 for Wells is 36.75 million new next year, while only 13 and 13 are coming off the books. I&#039;m sure they  can afford it, but it fails both the fairness smell test and the revenue efficiency test (because of the cap penalty). 

Finally, if the jays can get a cost and multi-year controlled front of the rotation starter for Halladay (who they will lose in a year anyway), I think they have to take it, with barely a position player thrown in depending on the starter. I&#039;m not saying Halladay isn&#039;t more valuable than that, I&#039;m just saying the Jays don&#039;t actually have enough player control here to sell him at market price.

That said, losing hughes or chamberlain for a $16 million 1 year rental is tough to swallow (though I guess he will be a type A free agent after the year, so at least we get a prospect back).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[3] good points, esp. on Cano. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t quite have all the math down but I don&#8217;t think the Yankees are going to grow payroll. 15.75 for Halladay and 21 for Wells is 36.75 million new next year, while only 13 and 13 are coming off the books. I&#8217;m sure they  can afford it, but it fails both the fairness smell test and the revenue efficiency test (because of the cap penalty). </p>
<p>Finally, if the jays can get a cost and multi-year controlled front of the rotation starter for Halladay (who they will lose in a year anyway), I think they have to take it, with barely a position player thrown in depending on the starter. I&#8217;m not saying Halladay isn&#8217;t more valuable than that, I&#8217;m just saying the Jays don&#8217;t actually have enough player control here to sell him at market price.</p>
<p>That said, losing hughes or chamberlain for a $16 million 1 year rental is tough to swallow (though I guess he will be a type A free agent after the year, so at least we get a prospect back).</p>
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		<title>By: 51cq24</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248296</link>
		<dc:creator>51cq24</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248296</guid>
		<description>i wouldn&#039;t want halladay in boston, but i definitely wouldn&#039;t give up what you suggest in order to keep that from happening.  as william says in [3] (and others including myself have said since the world series), trading cano would be a terrible mistake.  and i think trading either hughes or joba would be one as well.  i know people have soured on joba, but i still think he will be an ace.  he still hasn&#039;t gotten a real chance.  and hughes will be a good #2/3.  
while you argue the yankees &quot;know&quot; halladay better than they knew santana 2 years ago, i&#039;d hope that cashman isn&#039;t stupid enough to value halladay higher than santana just because he&#039;s seen him more.  santana was not only a better pitcher 2 years ago than halladay is today, he was also 4 years younger.  to give up for halladay what we wouldn&#039;t give up for santana would be absurd.  especially when the 2 pitchers are closer to being able to give us significant innings.  
let boston sell the farm for halladay.  it would suck, but wouldn&#039;t be the end of the world.  and maybe it would backfire on them after a year or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wouldn&#8217;t want halladay in boston, but i definitely wouldn&#8217;t give up what you suggest in order to keep that from happening.  as william says in [3] (and others including myself have said since the world series), trading cano would be a terrible mistake.  and i think trading either hughes or joba would be one as well.  i know people have soured on joba, but i still think he will be an ace.  he still hasn&#8217;t gotten a real chance.  and hughes will be a good #2/3.<br />
while you argue the yankees &#8220;know&#8221; halladay better than they knew santana 2 years ago, i&#8217;d hope that cashman isn&#8217;t stupid enough to value halladay higher than santana just because he&#8217;s seen him more.  santana was not only a better pitcher 2 years ago than halladay is today, he was also 4 years younger.  to give up for halladay what we wouldn&#8217;t give up for santana would be absurd.  especially when the 2 pitchers are closer to being able to give us significant innings.<br />
let boston sell the farm for halladay.  it would suck, but wouldn&#8217;t be the end of the world.  and maybe it would backfire on them after a year or two.</p>
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		<title>By: YankeeAbby</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248295</link>
		<dc:creator>YankeeAbby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248295</guid>
		<description>In completely unrelated news (or maybe it is related - I&#039;ll let y&#039;all decide): 

...I GOT MY WORLD SERIES DVD IN THE MAIL TODAY!!!!  WAHOOOOEEEEEEEE!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In completely unrelated news (or maybe it is related &#8211; I&#8217;ll let y&#8217;all decide): </p>
<p>&#8230;I GOT MY WORLD SERIES DVD IN THE MAIL TODAY!!!!  WAHOOOOEEEEEEEE!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: TheGreenMan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248294</link>
		<dc:creator>TheGreenMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248294</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m gonna disagree with you on a couple of things you wrote about Matt Holliday.  He hasn&#039;t played in &quot;relative obscurity his entire career&quot;.  Relative to A-Rod, sure...  

But he has been on the big stage of baseball since at least his 2006 season and he had a couple of decent seasons before that including a 5th place finish for RoY in 2004.  And his 2007 season was one for the ages including some really big moments in the post-season/playoffs.  Then he was involved in two huge trades in under a year that were the talk of the baseball community at the time.  West Coast does not equal relative obscurity to baseball fans.

And as for his fielding I don&#039;t think that GMs are going to look at one poor play in the OF in the playoffs to judge how effective he might be in the field.  They should and they will look at a larger sample size.  This past year he was an above average defender in LF coming in 5th in the new Fielding Bible awards for 2009.  And his Dewan +/- numbers have generally been positive over his years in the bigs, meaning that he will and has made plays that other LFers might not make.  

I don&#039;t hold them to be 100% accurate, but some folks smarter than me have come up with metrics that show he can play the field and help his team out while doing it.  And his throwing arm, while not anything special, hasn&#039;t cost his team any runs over his career.  At least according to Retrosheet and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m gonna disagree with you on a couple of things you wrote about Matt Holliday.  He hasn&#8217;t played in &#8220;relative obscurity his entire career&#8221;.  Relative to A-Rod, sure&#8230;  </p>
<p>But he has been on the big stage of baseball since at least his 2006 season and he had a couple of decent seasons before that including a 5th place finish for RoY in 2004.  And his 2007 season was one for the ages including some really big moments in the post-season/playoffs.  Then he was involved in two huge trades in under a year that were the talk of the baseball community at the time.  West Coast does not equal relative obscurity to baseball fans.</p>
<p>And as for his fielding I don&#8217;t think that GMs are going to look at one poor play in the OF in the playoffs to judge how effective he might be in the field.  They should and they will look at a larger sample size.  This past year he was an above average defender in LF coming in 5th in the new Fielding Bible awards for 2009.  And his Dewan +/- numbers have generally been positive over his years in the bigs, meaning that he will and has made plays that other LFers might not make.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t hold them to be 100% accurate, but some folks smarter than me have come up with metrics that show he can play the field and help his team out while doing it.  And his throwing arm, while not anything special, hasn&#8217;t cost his team any runs over his career.  At least according to Retrosheet and others.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane Firstman</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248293</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane Firstman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248293</guid>
		<description>Free agents are going to tend to be older signees, just due to the definition of having 6+ years in the majors.  You aren&#039;t going to find many 26-year-old free agents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Free agents are going to tend to be older signees, just due to the definition of having 6+ years in the majors.  You aren&#8217;t going to find many 26-year-old free agents.</p>
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		<title>By: sonyahennystutu</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248292</link>
		<dc:creator>sonyahennystutu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248292</guid>
		<description>I agree overall with William.  We hear all the time that the major hole in our system is a lack of position player bats.  In Cano we have a relatively cheap, young, up the middle guy who hits and fields.  Yeah yeah I know about the apparent lapses.  But overall body of work is very impressive IMO.  I can&#039;t believe we trade him for anyone not named King Felix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree overall with William.  We hear all the time that the major hole in our system is a lack of position player bats.  In Cano we have a relatively cheap, young, up the middle guy who hits and fields.  Yeah yeah I know about the apparent lapses.  But overall body of work is very impressive IMO.  I can&#8217;t believe we trade him for anyone not named King Felix.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248291</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248291</guid>
		<description>[2] Holliday and Tex are about the same age heading into their free agency periods. The Yankees need to sign talented players, not young ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[2] Holliday and Tex are about the same age heading into their free agency periods. The Yankees need to sign talented players, not young ones.</p>
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		<title>By: williamnyy23</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248290</link>
		<dc:creator>williamnyy23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248290</guid>
		<description>This came up earlier in the off season, but why all the talk about trading Cano? The Yankees need young, talented position players and that&#039;s exactly what Cano is. Also, it is not only unfair, but also untrue to say that Cano disappeared in the post season. He did have an .892 OPS in the ALCS with a .414. OBP. As bad as his two other series were, it was nothing like Soriano&#039;s. After all, Cano only K&#039;ed 9 times in 3 series compared to Soriano, who struck out an incredible 26 times.

I also don&#039;t get why you think a team would need to be able to sign Halladay to an extension. From the reports I have read, he seems more than happy to test free agency, so a Sabathia to the Brewers like arrangement is possible. Furthermore, I don&#039;t see why the Yankees would give up two highly touted players AND pick up Wells contract. If any team takes Wells, the Jays will be lucky to get one good prospect.

Finally, Matt Holliday has consistently rated as an above average to very good defensive left fielder. One high profile error doesn&#039;t erase that. If teams are really foolish enough to let one play impact their decision than they probably aren&#039;t well run in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This came up earlier in the off season, but why all the talk about trading Cano? The Yankees need young, talented position players and that&#8217;s exactly what Cano is. Also, it is not only unfair, but also untrue to say that Cano disappeared in the post season. He did have an .892 OPS in the ALCS with a .414. OBP. As bad as his two other series were, it was nothing like Soriano&#8217;s. After all, Cano only K&#8217;ed 9 times in 3 series compared to Soriano, who struck out an incredible 26 times.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t get why you think a team would need to be able to sign Halladay to an extension. From the reports I have read, he seems more than happy to test free agency, so a Sabathia to the Brewers like arrangement is possible. Furthermore, I don&#8217;t see why the Yankees would give up two highly touted players AND pick up Wells contract. If any team takes Wells, the Jays will be lucky to get one good prospect.</p>
<p>Finally, Matt Holliday has consistently rated as an above average to very good defensive left fielder. One high profile error doesn&#8217;t erase that. If teams are really foolish enough to let one play impact their decision than they probably aren&#8217;t well run in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Kantrowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248289</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Kantrowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248289</guid>
		<description>Please don&#039;t sign any more high-priced long-term contracts except for 26 year old players like Josh Johnson or absolute studs like Joe Mauer. Fans have to look beyond next year and visualize a group of players who need walkers to get to their positions. No Holliday/Halladay please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please don&#8217;t sign any more high-priced long-term contracts except for 26 year old players like Josh Johnson or absolute studs like Joe Mauer. Fans have to look beyond next year and visualize a group of players who need walkers to get to their positions. No Holliday/Halladay please.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane Firstman</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/11/30/yankee-panky-halladay-or-holliday-shopping/#comment-248288</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane Firstman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26715#comment-248288</guid>
		<description>I hope the Yanks see the &quot;True Value&quot; of Halladay and Holliday, so that when I take the &quot;Subway&quot; to the park in 2010, I won&#039;t be disappointed. :0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope the Yanks see the &#8220;True Value&#8221; of Halladay and Holliday, so that when I take the &#8220;Subway&#8221; to the park in 2010, I won&#8217;t be disappointed. :0</p>
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