Comments on: What Do We Have Here? http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Sun, 19 May 2013 06:50:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248789 williamnyy23 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:36:25 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248789 [22] Matsui doesn't work because he can't play the field, which means you have to bench him in NL parks as well as when you use the DH for Posada/Jeter/Arod. If they sign Damon, you could bench Melky in the NL park and when the DH slot is otherwise occupied. Gardner's role, if he has one, should be as a pinch runner and defensive replacement when needed. [22] Matsui doesn’t work because he can’t play the field, which means you have to bench him in NL parks as well as when you use the DH for Posada/Jeter/Arod. If they sign Damon, you could bench Melky in the NL park and when the DH slot is otherwise occupied.

Gardner’s role, if he has one, should be as a pinch runner and defensive replacement when needed.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248788 ms october Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:57:25 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248788 [21] yeah cokey's interviews were great - hopefully he will have a solid career from a pure sentimental point of view, i am glad these guys who are gone and will be gone soon were all able to be a part of a world series winning team (granted not ipk and jackson, but the others) [21] yeah cokey’s interviews were great – hopefully he will have a solid career

from a pure sentimental point of view, i am glad these guys who are gone and will be gone soon were all able to be a part of a world series winning team (granted not ipk and jackson, but the others)

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248787 Raf Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:43:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248787 <b>CG’s GB/FB ratio has gone from 1.29 to 0.58 over 5 years. However, in 2009, his LD% was 21%, just slightly higher then his career 20%. Add to this his breakout (30) HR numbers last year… </b> His HR/FB ratio has pretty much remained the same. His infield flies have spiked. His bunt hit percentage has been increasing as well. So I wouldn't necessarily say that he's swinging for the fences. CG’s GB/FB ratio has gone from 1.29 to 0.58 over 5 years. However, in 2009, his LD% was 21%, just slightly higher then his career 20%. Add to this his breakout (30) HR numbers last year…

His HR/FB ratio has pretty much remained the same. His infield flies have spiked. His bunt hit percentage has been increasing as well. So I wouldn’t necessarily say that he’s swinging for the fences.

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248786 OldYanksFan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:20:35 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248786 "Granderson’s 2009 BABIP was .275 which is almost 50 points lower than his career version." I guess BABIP is in some degree supposed to be a measure of luck? Or is it also an indicator of how solid/hard you hit the ball? CG's GB/FB ratio has gone from 1.29 to 0.58 over 5 years. However, in 2009, his LD% was 21%, just slightly higher then his career 20%. Add to this his breakout (30) HR numbers last year... and what does this mean? It seems like he is really trying to hit the ball in the air and go for the seats. While YS will help that, shouldn't a guy with speed be happy to hit the ball on the ground? It seems to me the guy is talented, but that his approach over the last 2 years needs work. Like Groundzilla and ARod trying to pull the ball, batters usually suffer when then don't hit 'em where they're pitched. I don't like guys who try and pull everything, and certainly at YS, CG will be tempted to continue in that vain. While JD was good at pulling the ball, he also knew how to go the other way. His goal should not be to hit 30+ HRs. We don't really need that. We need an OBP guy. It's a mindset. Hopefully CG will see the light. “Granderson’s 2009 BABIP was .275 which is almost 50 points lower than his career version.”
I guess BABIP is in some degree supposed to be a measure of luck? Or is it also an indicator of how solid/hard you hit the ball? CG’s GB/FB ratio has gone from 1.29 to 0.58 over 5 years. However, in 2009, his LD% was 21%, just slightly higher then his career 20%. Add to this his breakout (30) HR numbers last year… and what does this mean?

It seems like he is really trying to hit the ball in the air and go for the seats. While YS will help that, shouldn’t a guy with speed be happy to hit the ball on the ground? It seems to me the guy is talented, but that his approach over the last 2 years needs work. Like Groundzilla and ARod trying to pull the ball, batters usually suffer when then don’t hit ‘em where they’re pitched.

I don’t like guys who try and pull everything, and certainly at YS, CG will be tempted to continue in that vain. While JD was good at pulling the ball, he also knew how to go the other way.

His goal should not be to hit 30+ HRs. We don’t really need that. We need an OBP guy. It’s a mindset. Hopefully CG will see the light.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248785 Raf Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:13:37 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248785 <b>The plan that makes the most sense is to bring back Damon as the mostly DH, which would allow you to move Melky to LF and improve both slots.</b> Why not Matsui? You can still have Melky in LF (or CF depending on whims). Gardner and Cabrera can still play the hybrid platoon role that they played last season. Or sign Cameron and have him patrol LF/CF with Melky being used as the 4th OF, and Gardner used as the 5th OF/designated runner (or 'stander' if one prefers) The plan that makes the most sense is to bring back Damon as the mostly DH, which would allow you to move Melky to LF and improve both slots.

Why not Matsui?

You can still have Melky in LF (or CF depending on whims). Gardner and Cabrera can still play the hybrid platoon role that they played last season. Or sign Cameron and have him patrol LF/CF with Melky being used as the 4th OF, and Gardner used as the 5th OF/designated runner (or ‘stander’ if one prefers)

]]> By: Cliff Corcoran http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248784 Cliff Corcoran Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:13:13 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248784 Agreed on Coke's personality. I'll miss his frankness and mix of determination and wide-eyed enthusiasm. I wish him well. Agreed on Coke’s personality. I’ll miss his frankness and mix of determination and wide-eyed enthusiasm. I wish him well.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248783 Paul Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:53:28 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248783 I wonder how the quality of pitching affects the measurement of outfield defense. I mean, if pitchers are giving up rockets rather than flys, then a fielder may have no chance even as it's in his zone. The 2008 Tigers had a 91 ERA+ vs. a 100 ERA+ in 2007 and a 106 ERA+ in 2009. I say sign Bay for LF/DH and do the Damon thing you're suggesting with him. Hurt the Sox and help your club. If that fails, then sign Damon. Worst case, sign Cameron. Yanks have a ton of options right now. I feel really lucky to be a Yankee fan knowing this team wins a championship then the GM stays up until 12am working the phones to make his club better. I wonder how the quality of pitching affects the measurement of outfield defense. I mean, if pitchers are giving up rockets rather than flys, then a fielder may have no chance even as it’s in his zone. The 2008 Tigers had a 91 ERA+ vs. a 100 ERA+ in 2007 and a 106 ERA+ in 2009.

I say sign Bay for LF/DH and do the Damon thing you’re suggesting with him. Hurt the Sox and help your club. If that fails, then sign Damon. Worst case, sign Cameron.

Yanks have a ton of options right now. I feel really lucky to be a Yankee fan knowing this team wins a championship then the GM stays up until 12am working the phones to make his club better.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248782 williamnyy23 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:41:03 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248782 One more interesting note. By most accounts, Andre Either had a breakout year (he actually broke out in 2008) on his way to stardom. He hit .194 against lefties. One more interesting note. By most accounts, Andre Either had a breakout year (he actually broke out in 2008) on his way to stardom. He hit .194 against lefties.

]]> By: RagingTartabull http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248781 RagingTartabull Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:35:55 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248781 Personally I'm 100% behind this deal. We all know Granderson is going to hit in the Bronx, and as Cliff said theres no way he won't be at least as good as Melky. The power will be there, and I definitely think there were some mitigating factors with his dip in steals (team being weaker, maybe some leg problems)...but even if we get 20 steals on 25 attempts out of him I'll be more than happy. As for what was given up: who the hell knows with A-Jax? Most seem to put his ceiling at "Granderson but with less power", so why go nuts about holding onto that? Coke was fun but completely expendable (although his postgame pressers will be sorely missed), and I personally didn't have the energy to go down the IPK road again. I think he'll thrive in the NL West, and I wish him all the best but I was never counting on him being a contributor for the Yankees in 2010. Personally I’m 100% behind this deal. We all know Granderson is going to hit in the Bronx, and as Cliff said theres no way he won’t be at least as good as Melky. The power will be there, and I definitely think there were some mitigating factors with his dip in steals (team being weaker, maybe some leg problems)…but even if we get 20 steals on 25 attempts out of him I’ll be more than happy.

As for what was given up: who the hell knows with A-Jax? Most seem to put his ceiling at “Granderson but with less power”, so why go nuts about holding onto that? Coke was fun but completely expendable (although his postgame pressers will be sorely missed), and I personally didn’t have the energy to go down the IPK road again. I think he’ll thrive in the NL West, and I wish him all the best but I was never counting on him being a contributor for the Yankees in 2010.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248780 williamnyy23 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:29:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248780 [16] Of course. The plan that makes the most sense is to bring back Damon as the mostly DH, which would allow you to move Melky to LF and improve both slots. Then, when you want to DH Posada, Jeter or Arod, you simply slide Damon into the OF and sit Melky, which means Cervelli, Pena, etc. would be replacing Melky, not a more potent bat (as was the case when Matsui was the DH). The only drawback to losing Matsui and keeping Damon is the lineup would become more vulnerable to left handers, but that is something that could be handled by getting a good righty bat. Too bad DeRosa probably wants to play every day. [16] Of course. The plan that makes the most sense is to bring back Damon as the mostly DH, which would allow you to move Melky to LF and improve both slots. Then, when you want to DH Posada, Jeter or Arod, you simply slide Damon into the OF and sit Melky, which means Cervelli, Pena, etc. would be replacing Melky, not a more potent bat (as was the case when Matsui was the DH).

The only drawback to losing Matsui and keeping Damon is the lineup would become more vulnerable to left handers, but that is something that could be handled by getting a good righty bat. Too bad DeRosa probably wants to play every day.

]]> By: Cliff Corcoran http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248779 Cliff Corcoran Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:15:55 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248779 One thing we can agree on is that, if they do put him in left, he'd be a huge upgrade over Damon, and in center he won't be worse than Melky. One thing we can agree on is that, if they do put him in left, he’d be a huge upgrade over Damon, and in center he won’t be worse than Melky.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248778 williamnyy23 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:13:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248778 [14] I don't recall seeing reports about Granderson being injured. Perhaps a more likely explanation is the 2008 Tigers weren’t a very good team and could have found themselves behind a lot more than their 2007 counterpart, leaving fewer opportunities for Granderson to run? Granderson is two years removed from back to back outstanding defensive seasons. At age 29, there is no reason to suspect he has lost that physical ability. He is a gold glove caliber center fielder because he has the ability to play outstanding defense at that position. I am confident Cashman realizes this. [14] I don’t recall seeing reports about Granderson being injured. Perhaps a more likely explanation is the 2008 Tigers weren’t a very good team and could have found themselves behind a lot more than their 2007 counterpart, leaving fewer opportunities for Granderson to run?

Granderson is two years removed from back to back outstanding defensive seasons. At age 29, there is no reason to suspect he has lost that physical ability. He is a gold glove caliber center fielder because he has the ability to play outstanding defense at that position. I am confident Cashman realizes this.

]]> By: Cliff Corcoran http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248777 Cliff Corcoran Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:01:24 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248777 [13] The fact that his steals also dropped in 2008 makes me think his legs weren't healthy, which would also have effected him in the field, so I think those numbers are real and I think his recovery from that to merely average is also legit. I think calling him a Gold Glove center fielder is only accurate in the sense that the Gold Gloves often go to undeserving players. Yes, he had that ability, but I'm not convinced it's still there. [13] The fact that his steals also dropped in 2008 makes me think his legs weren’t healthy, which would also have effected him in the field, so I think those numbers are real and I think his recovery from that to merely average is also legit. I think calling him a Gold Glove center fielder is only accurate in the sense that the Gold Gloves often go to undeserving players. Yes, he had that ability, but I’m not convinced it’s still there.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248776 williamnyy23 Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:54:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248776 I am also in the camp of those who see this as a slam dunk deal. As has been pointed out, there are a few factors that help mitigate concerns about Granderson's spits. Still, even with that handicap, he has been a very productive player for four seasons. Since 2006, he has been about WAR of 4, which makes him very valuable. If he can move that bar a little higher, he then does become the star that many now do not think he can become. As for defense, I find it hard to believe that Granderson went from an outstanding defensive CF'er in 2006 and 2007 to a poor one in 2008 and then back up to an average one in 2009. Also, it seems silly to point to two high profile games and then draw the conclusion that he is detoriating as a fielder. Granderson still has the ability to be a gold glove CF'er and it would be absolutely foolish to pencil him in anywhere but at that position. I guess this kind of skepticism always exits in Yankeeland, but I really don’t see anything not to like about this deal. One other thing worth noting is that Cashman once again showed his skill in negotiating a deal. After the Tigers first asked for Hughes or Joba, Cash was able to slow play the deal even to the point of not giving up Dunn, who most thought wouldn’t be a stumbling block for the Yankees. Also, according to some reports, Cashman’s likability factor is something that makes him a sought after trade partner. So, even though teams may be loathe to help the mighty Yankees, they like working with Brian Cashman. I am also in the camp of those who see this as a slam dunk deal. As has been pointed out, there are a few factors that help mitigate concerns about Granderson’s spits. Still, even with that handicap, he has been a very productive player for four seasons. Since 2006, he has been about WAR of 4, which makes him very valuable. If he can move that bar a little higher, he then does become the star that many now do not think he can become.

As for defense, I find it hard to believe that Granderson went from an outstanding defensive CF’er in 2006 and 2007 to a poor one in 2008 and then back up to an average one in 2009. Also, it seems silly to point to two high profile games and then draw the conclusion that he is detoriating as a fielder. Granderson still has the ability to be a gold glove CF’er and it would be absolutely foolish to pencil him in anywhere but at that position.

I guess this kind of skepticism always exits in Yankeeland, but I really don’t see anything not to like about this deal.

One other thing worth noting is that Cashman once again showed his skill in negotiating a deal. After the Tigers first asked for Hughes or Joba, Cash was able to slow play the deal even to the point of not giving up Dunn, who most thought wouldn’t be a stumbling block for the Yankees. Also, according to some reports, Cashman’s likability factor is something that makes him a sought after trade partner. So, even though teams may be loathe to help the mighty Yankees, they like working with Brian Cashman.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248775 Raf Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:21:54 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248775 As for the "can't hit lefties" issue. I think it's overblown. Despite that weakness, he's still a very productive player. As for the “can’t hit lefties” issue. I think it’s overblown. Despite that weakness, he’s still a very productive player.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248774 Raf Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:20:24 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248774 [10] I'm not worried either. It's a slam dunk trade for the Yanks, getting an established player for what are organizational spare parts. Jackson wasn't going to start for the Yanks in 2010, Kennedy fell a bit further on the depth chart, Coke was dealt while his value was highest. I wish the 3 all the best in their endeavors, but this is a trade that has to be made every time. [10] I’m not worried either. It’s a slam dunk trade for the Yanks, getting an established player for what are organizational spare parts. Jackson wasn’t going to start for the Yanks in 2010, Kennedy fell a bit further on the depth chart, Coke was dealt while his value was highest.

I wish the 3 all the best in their endeavors, but this is a trade that has to be made every time.

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248773 Paul Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:20:40 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248773 [7] But he, like every other analyst, missed the double split. That's very relevant. A .730 OPS from the leftside isn't a problem at all. They've put up with that, or worse, full-time the last three years in CF. I'm not worried at all. [7] But he, like every other analyst, missed the double split. That’s very relevant. A .730 OPS from the leftside isn’t a problem at all. They’ve put up with that, or worse, full-time the last three years in CF. I’m not worried at all.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248772 Shaun P. Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:19:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248772 [6] To add on, <a href="http://www.detroittigersweblog.com/2009/11/playing-in-the-spray-curtis-granderson/" rel="nofollow">here's a bit on CG's batted ball distribution and what he might need to do to get back to his 2007 line</a> (h/t to Rob Neyer). [6] To add on, here’s a bit on CG’s batted ball distribution and what he might need to do to get back to his 2007 line (h/t to Rob Neyer).

]]> By: Paul http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248771 Paul Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:17:02 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248771 [5] Worst of all the same people complaining about Granderson's K's are hyping Jackson! What!? If you can't tell, I'm stoked about this deal. And it helps that Granderson seems tailor made for NYC and that the Yankees didn't give up anyone the fans like (i.e. Joba). I can't wait to watch Granderson hit behind Jeter. If they re-sign Damon, then Granderson makes a fantastic #9. Let him hit there for a year and with no pressure whatsoever. [5] Worst of all the same people complaining about Granderson’s K’s are hyping Jackson! What!?

If you can’t tell, I’m stoked about this deal. And it helps that Granderson seems tailor made for NYC and that the Yankees didn’t give up anyone the fans like (i.e. Joba).

I can’t wait to watch Granderson hit behind Jeter. If they re-sign Damon, then Granderson makes a fantastic #9. Let him hit there for a year and with no pressure whatsoever.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2009/12/09/what-do-we-have-here/#comment-248770 Shaun P. Wed, 09 Dec 2009 12:15:49 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=26944#comment-248770 [4] Thanks for the mention, though I think Cliff didn't miss it: "The good news is that Comerica Park, while it is a triples-hitter’s paradise, is hell on left-handed hitters, especially left-handed power hitters." and then his later reference to CG's home/road splits. The BABIP info is neat though, and something I haven't read anywhere else. That gives me a good feeling. [4] Thanks for the mention, though I think Cliff didn’t miss it: “The good news is that Comerica Park, while it is a triples-hitter’s paradise, is hell on left-handed hitters, especially left-handed power hitters.” and then his later reference to CG’s home/road splits.

The BABIP info is neat though, and something I haven’t read anywhere else. That gives me a good feeling.

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