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	<title>Comments on: Winn Share</title>
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		<title>By: Yankster</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94551</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94551</guid>
		<description>[31] If Damon signs for $5 somewhere else then HE made the egregious mistake. He was offered $14 million for 2 years and Damon laughed at it. We will see if the Yankee offer was more than fair or even dramatically above market shortly, and then we&#039;ll see who made the mistake. 

If Damon plays very well next year at $5 million somewhere else, again, it won&#039;t be Cashman&#039;s fault, it will be Damon&#039;s for not taking the guaranteed 2 years and the extra $2 million in the first year.

I hope everyone here, despite disappointment, blames Damon and not the Yankees for this outcome.

I&#039;d also like to give a shout out to Angell in the New Yorker who said pretty strongly right after the serious that neither Matsui nor Damon would be back on the team despite their extraordinary season and post-season contributions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[31] If Damon signs for $5 somewhere else then HE made the egregious mistake. He was offered $14 million for 2 years and Damon laughed at it. We will see if the Yankee offer was more than fair or even dramatically above market shortly, and then we&#8217;ll see who made the mistake. </p>
<p>If Damon plays very well next year at $5 million somewhere else, again, it won&#8217;t be Cashman&#8217;s fault, it will be Damon&#8217;s for not taking the guaranteed 2 years and the extra $2 million in the first year.</p>
<p>I hope everyone here, despite disappointment, blames Damon and not the Yankees for this outcome.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to give a shout out to Angell in the New Yorker who said pretty strongly right after the serious that neither Matsui nor Damon would be back on the team despite their extraordinary season and post-season contributions.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94550</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94550</guid>
		<description>[47] Why not? He&#039;ll be in AAA and by all accounts his bat is already ready.

Still, assuming NJ will be hurt for three months shows your bias. He&#039;s the DH most days. Any injury is likely to be much less severe short of separating tendons from bones or tearing ligaments while running the bases. Besides, even if that were to happen, DHs can be had very cheaply.

[45] Like most things Sox, no one cares to probe the negatives very deeply. Pedroia, outside of the Green Bandbox, is a very different hitter. On the road in his career he&#039;s a .756 OPS hitter vs. a .896 OPS at home. That split is insane. He&#039;s a pull hitter with very little pop. The difference is weak flies in other parks become doubles in Fenway.

The same goes for Ellsbury - he gets 100 points in offense simply by where he plays (Home = .818 OPS vs. Away = .715 OPS). 

The picture of their system, and its impact, changes pretty dramatically once you see Pedroia and Ellsbury as the .720 to .760 OPS hitters they really are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[47] Why not? He&#8217;ll be in AAA and by all accounts his bat is already ready.</p>
<p>Still, assuming NJ will be hurt for three months shows your bias. He&#8217;s the DH most days. Any injury is likely to be much less severe short of separating tendons from bones or tearing ligaments while running the bases. Besides, even if that were to happen, DHs can be had very cheaply.</p>
<p>[45] Like most things Sox, no one cares to probe the negatives very deeply. Pedroia, outside of the Green Bandbox, is a very different hitter. On the road in his career he&#8217;s a .756 OPS hitter vs. a .896 OPS at home. That split is insane. He&#8217;s a pull hitter with very little pop. The difference is weak flies in other parks become doubles in Fenway.</p>
<p>The same goes for Ellsbury &#8211; he gets 100 points in offense simply by where he plays (Home = .818 OPS vs. Away = .715 OPS). </p>
<p>The picture of their system, and its impact, changes pretty dramatically once you see Pedroia and Ellsbury as the .720 to .760 OPS hitters they really are.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattpat11</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94549</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattpat11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94549</guid>
		<description>He has 44 games above A Ball. Is he going to be able to come up and DH if Johnson goes on the DL for three months in May?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He has 44 games above A Ball. Is he going to be able to come up and DH if Johnson goes on the DL for three months in May?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94548</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94548</guid>
		<description>[40] Luckily they have this kid, you may have heard of him....Jesus something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[40] Luckily they have this kid, you may have heard of him&#8230;.Jesus something?</p>
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		<title>By: a.O</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94547</link>
		<dc:creator>a.O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94547</guid>
		<description>[43] So Youkilis and Pedroia are &quot;[a]rguably the best right side of the infield in all of pro baseball,&quot; eh?  Dont think so. Teix and Robbie have no equal.  But Exhibit R in the case for ESPN jumping up the Red Sux ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[43] So Youkilis and Pedroia are &#8220;[a]rguably the best right side of the infield in all of pro baseball,&#8221; eh?  Dont think so. Teix and Robbie have no equal.  But Exhibit R in the case for ESPN jumping up the Red Sux ass.</p>
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		<title>By: monkeypants</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94546</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeypants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 03:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94546</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;m late to the party tonight.

I&#039;m pretty sure I don&#039;t get this signing, other than the desire to have a &quot;proven veteran&quot;. I&#039;m really surprised that a more creative solution ould not be found, or barring that, just stand pat.  Randy Winn&#039;s can be gotten anytime if need be, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;m late to the party tonight.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure I don&#8217;t get this signing, other than the desire to have a &#8220;proven veteran&#8221;. I&#8217;m really surprised that a more creative solution ould not be found, or barring that, just stand pat.  Randy Winn&#8217;s can be gotten anytime if need be, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94545</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 03:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94545</guid>
		<description>http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/insider/news/story?id=4862265

Let&#039;s hear it for that awesome-O Red Sox farm system and scouting department! After all, you just can&#039;t win TWO World Series championships without drafting such awesome players as Manny Ramirez, Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, Johnny Damon, David Ortiz, Dice-K, Captain Varitek, J.D.Drew, Pedro Martinez and Keith Foulke! 

(However, ESPN redeemed themselves with the Hot Stove U article about WAR, very interesting.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/insider/news/story?id=4862265" rel="nofollow">http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/insider/news/story?id=4862265</a></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s hear it for that awesome-O Red Sox farm system and scouting department! After all, you just can&#8217;t win TWO World Series championships without drafting such awesome players as Manny Ramirez, Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, Johnny Damon, David Ortiz, Dice-K, Captain Varitek, J.D.Drew, Pedro Martinez and Keith Foulke! </p>
<p>(However, ESPN redeemed themselves with the Hot Stove U article about WAR, very interesting.)</p>
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		<title>By: a.O</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94544</link>
		<dc:creator>a.O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 03:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94544</guid>
		<description>[30] It&#039;s Mr O if you&#039;re nasty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[30] It&#8217;s Mr O if you&#8217;re nasty.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94543</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94543</guid>
		<description>Seeing as Nady got $3M+ from the Cubs, maybe $2M for Winn isn&#039;t out of line...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeing as Nady got $3M+ from the Cubs, maybe $2M for Winn isn&#8217;t out of line&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mattpat11</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94542</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattpat11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94542</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve calmed down somewhat over the last few hours. I really wanted Damon, and so this pissed me off, but shit happens, i guess. I think we&#039;re likely to get very little offensive production out of left field, and that&#039;s just something I&#039;m going to have to accept. The key now is Nick Johnson. If he plays 70 games and we wind up getting nothing out of LF &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; DH, I think we can safely say a mistake was made here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve calmed down somewhat over the last few hours. I really wanted Damon, and so this pissed me off, but shit happens, i guess. I think we&#8217;re likely to get very little offensive production out of left field, and that&#8217;s just something I&#8217;m going to have to accept. The key now is Nick Johnson. If he plays 70 games and we wind up getting nothing out of LF <i>and</i> DH, I think we can safely say a mistake was made here.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Arneson</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94541</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Arneson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94541</guid>
		<description>I suspect that right field in AT&amp;T Park inflates UZR the way left field in Fenway deflates it.   I wouldn&#039;t trust Winn&#039;s UZR very much.

That said, from my Bay Area perspective, if you ignore the fact that he&#039;s been vastly overpaid, I&#039;ve always liked watching him.  He&#039;s solid--not great or horrible at anything.  Seems like a decent guy.  For a 4th or 5th outfielder, a solid guy like that is not a bad thing to have.  The only question is if he&#039;s getting too old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that right field in AT&amp;T Park inflates UZR the way left field in Fenway deflates it.   I wouldn&#8217;t trust Winn&#8217;s UZR very much.</p>
<p>That said, from my Bay Area perspective, if you ignore the fact that he&#8217;s been vastly overpaid, I&#8217;ve always liked watching him.  He&#8217;s solid&#8211;not great or horrible at anything.  Seems like a decent guy.  For a 4th or 5th outfielder, a solid guy like that is not a bad thing to have.  The only question is if he&#8217;s getting too old.</p>
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		<title>By: rbj</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94540</link>
		<dc:creator>rbj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94540</guid>
		<description>[5] The Toledo afternoon sports guy voted no on Damon in Detroit.  IIRC, they already have a guy for leftfield and Damon&#039;s arm is too weak for that spacious CF.

Winn is underwhelming.  Look for a midseason trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[5] The Toledo afternoon sports guy voted no on Damon in Detroit.  IIRC, they already have a guy for leftfield and Damon&#8217;s arm is too weak for that spacious CF.</p>
<p>Winn is underwhelming.  Look for a midseason trade.</p>
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		<title>By: Sliced Bread</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94539</link>
		<dc:creator>Sliced Bread</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 01:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94539</guid>
		<description>Perhaps along with his strict budget , Cashman also had a gun-to-his-head deadline to spend every penny of it by 4pm today - or else his team would turn into the Mets.
How else do you explain signing a $2 million player who does not replace, nor have the upside of Shelley Duncan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps along with his strict budget , Cashman also had a gun-to-his-head deadline to spend every penny of it by 4pm today &#8211; or else his team would turn into the Mets.<br />
How else do you explain signing a $2 million player who does not replace, nor have the upside of Shelley Duncan?</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94538</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94538</guid>
		<description>[13] &quot;You know Suzyn, after that two game losing streak, the Yankees really were &quot;Randy&quot; for a &quot;Winn&quot; (Austin Powers voice)&quot; 

&quot;Please stop rubbing my thigh, John.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[13] &#8220;You know Suzyn, after that two game losing streak, the Yankees really were &#8220;Randy&#8221; for a &#8220;Winn&#8221; (Austin Powers voice)&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;Please stop rubbing my thigh, John.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MichiganYankee</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94537</link>
		<dc:creator>MichiganYankee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94537</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t like the move.  When a player in his mid-30s sees his production fall off the cliff, the drop is generally genuine.  See Bernie Williams, Roberto Alomar, Dale Murphy and countless others.  

Winn may well be DFAd by &lt;a href=&quot;h#comment-284213&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Diane&#039;s birthday&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t like the move.  When a player in his mid-30s sees his production fall off the cliff, the drop is generally genuine.  See Bernie Williams, Roberto Alomar, Dale Murphy and countless others.  </p>
<p>Winn may well be DFAd by <a href="h#comment-284213" rel="nofollow">Diane&#8217;s birthday</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94536</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94536</guid>
		<description>[33] I dunno. His leverage is very close to zero now. His alternative to a 1-year deal may be retirement -- and he might retire, sure, but I&#039;m guessing he won&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[33] I dunno. His leverage is very close to zero now. His alternative to a 1-year deal may be retirement &#8212; and he might retire, sure, but I&#8217;m guessing he won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94535</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94535</guid>
		<description>[31] Something tells me someone will pony up for two years of Damon, whatever the cost.  And I can&#039;t blame the Yanks for not wanting Damon for two years at his age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[31] Something tells me someone will pony up for two years of Damon, whatever the cost.  And I can&#8217;t blame the Yanks for not wanting Damon for two years at his age.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun P.</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94534</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94534</guid>
		<description>[27] The guys at River Ave Blues suggest that Winn&#039;s arm is actually pretty good - shows what I know in [2].

They also point out that his UZR the last few years has been excellent, even with the decline in his bat in 2009.

As for Winn&#039;s bat, while he did play in the weaker league, he also played his home games in a park that kills offense, and in a division with Petco, an insane pitcher&#039;s park, and Dodger Stadium, a strong pitcher&#039;s park.  That&#039;s over 60% of his games in strong-or-better pitchers&#039; parks.  Setting age aside, I&#039;d be willing to give Winn a mulligan on his batting line from last year.

Worst comes to worst and he&#039;s toast, its just $2M.  Its easy to cut him loose and find someone else to platoon with Gardner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[27] The guys at River Ave Blues suggest that Winn&#8217;s arm is actually pretty good &#8211; shows what I know in [2].</p>
<p>They also point out that his UZR the last few years has been excellent, even with the decline in his bat in 2009.</p>
<p>As for Winn&#8217;s bat, while he did play in the weaker league, he also played his home games in a park that kills offense, and in a division with Petco, an insane pitcher&#8217;s park, and Dodger Stadium, a strong pitcher&#8217;s park.  That&#8217;s over 60% of his games in strong-or-better pitchers&#8217; parks.  Setting age aside, I&#8217;d be willing to give Winn a mulligan on his batting line from last year.</p>
<p>Worst comes to worst and he&#8217;s toast, its just $2M.  Its easy to cut him loose and find someone else to platoon with Gardner.</p>
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		<title>By: RIYank</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94533</link>
		<dc:creator>RIYank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94533</guid>
		<description>I wonder how much Damon would have cost, really. Because, sure, the Yankees don&#039;t &quot;need&quot; another bat in the nine slot, but I think that&#039;s a red herring. It&#039;s never a matter of need. Having a better hitter in the line-up would mean the Yankees would score more runs and win more games, and Damon is a better hitter than Winn. If someone ends up getting Johnny for one year at $5M, then signing Winn is a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how much Damon would have cost, really. Because, sure, the Yankees don&#8217;t &#8220;need&#8221; another bat in the nine slot, but I think that&#8217;s a red herring. It&#8217;s never a matter of need. Having a better hitter in the line-up would mean the Yankees would score more runs and win more games, and Damon is a better hitter than Winn. If someone ends up getting Johnny for one year at $5M, then signing Winn is a mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Horace Clarke Era</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/01/27/winn-share/#comment-94532</link>
		<dc:creator>Horace Clarke Era</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=28419#comment-94532</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m surprised at how nasty and absurdly confident this can get - in January! a.O. I agree we didn&#039;t need a serious bat for #9 and I&#039;ve been an &#039;I&#039;m okay with Gardner&#039; guy all along, for that reason. But Damon fit the team, the batting slot, the clubhouse very well. Baseball may be a harsh game, and some gfans may be harsh personalities, but crowing (so to speak) at his exit this way feels way off. He&#039;s a few months froma a solid season and memorable playoff moment.

Something very weird has happened in the economics of the game (Sheets gets 10 and Damon has no job, and will likely get less than half of that?).

And, all respect to hyperbole, didn&#039;t see &#039;every runner in the AL scoring&#039; on sharp hits to left. It has been dealt with here that that particular stat works out to a fairly trivial one over a season.

Still, I do see that Cashman&#039;s serious about the money here ... at 200 million, mind you. And until the trade deadline.

Is Jeter going to get 4 years at 15 million plus now? Jorge + This is a funny sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised at how nasty and absurdly confident this can get &#8211; in January! a.O. I agree we didn&#8217;t need a serious bat for #9 and I&#8217;ve been an &#8216;I&#8217;m okay with Gardner&#8217; guy all along, for that reason. But Damon fit the team, the batting slot, the clubhouse very well. Baseball may be a harsh game, and some gfans may be harsh personalities, but crowing (so to speak) at his exit this way feels way off. He&#8217;s a few months froma a solid season and memorable playoff moment.</p>
<p>Something very weird has happened in the economics of the game (Sheets gets 10 and Damon has no job, and will likely get less than half of that?).</p>
<p>And, all respect to hyperbole, didn&#8217;t see &#8216;every runner in the AL scoring&#8217; on sharp hits to left. It has been dealt with here that that particular stat works out to a fairly trivial one over a season.</p>
<p>Still, I do see that Cashman&#8217;s serious about the money here &#8230; at 200 million, mind you. And until the trade deadline.</p>
<p>Is Jeter going to get 4 years at 15 million plus now? Jorge + This is a funny sport.</p>
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