Comments on: Now It’s On

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:28:37 +0000

[31] We definitely agree about the end result, but I do have a concern about the possibility that Joba’s best may need to be kicked out of him. If that is the long-term case, it opens up a lot of scenarios in which he will not peform up to par. It’s kind of like having a car that needs super unleaded. It’s not really a big deal when it’s available, but the special need leaves up the chance that you may one day have to use regular and suffer the resulting decline in performance.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:23:07 +0000

[26] Yes! Thank you.

[29] I could live with the kicks in the pants if he was throwing in the upper 90s.

Yes, again. That’s my point. I don’t care one whit HOW performance is cajoled out of Joba or any other player. thus, I don’t care if (allegedly) needs a kick in the pants occasionally or repeatedly. That stuff is simply not my concern. Him performing or not performing well–the end results–are what I am interested in. Thus, like you (apparently), the issue is not whether he is or requires pants-kicking, but rather that the pants-kicking (or the lack of pants-kicking?) has not yielded the desired results to date.

Once again, we seem to agree.

By: The Hawk

The Hawk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:05:08 +0000

[28] Yeah I guess it seems like they are wickeder more often when he’s coming out the bullpen. Throwing 91, 92 fb, that slider isn’t quite the same.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:04:25 +0000

[26] There’s nothing wrong with Joba needing a little support, but this has kind of become a reoccuring theme with him. Now, I realize he hasn’t exactly been handled in the best way, but I’d like to think he wouldn’t a kick in the pants when he his battling for his dream job. Having said that, all that matters is how well he pitches. To this point, my bigger concern his arm strength. I could live with the kicks in the pants if he was throwing in the upper 90s.

By: Yankster

Yankster — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:01:00 +0000

[27] He might not have had too many wicked games in his last few outings but the video of his slider from the other day is pretty good evidence that his arm has some truly wicked pitches in it. Whether he can string enough of those wicked pitches together to get an out, an inning, or a game, is the bigger question in my mind.

By: The Hawk

The Hawk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:55:10 +0000

[26] HA maybe that’s the problem: Those wicked pitches seem to have disappeared. All the pep talks in the world won’t raise the mph on your fastball. Or maybe they will, who knows.

By: Yankster

Yankster — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:44:49 +0000

Arod had (has?) his pre-game psyche talk with his motivational therapist before almost every game and he gets himself into that minotaur mode. Clemens had his own personal trainer in the clubhouse to motivate him (and to apply burning lineament to his crouch between innings – I’m not making this up). And I, for one, could definitely use a pep talk once in a while to up my game at work.

This idea that because Joba isn’t a self-contained solution to his pitching slot is kind of ridiculous, in my opinion. The whole point of Torre was that he was able to handle big egos and smooth out the emotional side of players to let ability come through. I never thought that was completely useless – do you? I know Mariano seems wholly (pun intended) contained, but I think he gets a lot of spiritual support off the field which he uses to be stable on the field. Jeter’s famously supportive parents probably talk to him constantly about his challenges – which is why we rarely see them. Joba is still a kid, he seems to have a not entirely ideal off-field support network, he seems to have some wicked wicked pitches, and he seems to need a little extra support from the coaches. What’s the big deal?

By: The Hawk

The Hawk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:42:08 +0000

[17] To take your question literally: I care.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:39:56 +0000

[23] It’s true that not all players are completely self motivating, but I’d guess that most ace starters don’t need regular pep talks. If that’s true, then maybe Joba’s lack of focus means we are looking at a lower level starter, in which case, the bullpen looks more suitable for him. Girardi’s job is to get the most out of his players, but if Joba really lacks focus, then perhaps sending him to the pen is the best way to do that.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:32:56 +0000

[22] well yes, sure, it would be great if all players were equally self-motivated, and equally focused all the time, and perfectly consistent [21], etc. But I tend to assume that this is an unrealistic expectation. I assume that, in fact, some players have certain weaknesses that are hardwired (more or less), so rather than dwell on the weaknesses (and assume that they are the product of a player’s failing in terms of preparation, etc) we should look at the overall package. Similarly, I assume that players must be coaxed and motivated in varying degrees and by various methods. That’s the job of the coaching staff. If Joba doesn’t get his pep talk in the future, that’s on the coaches, especially if his “problem” of motivation is known.

So yes, I would prefer that Joba (or Cano, or any other player who tends to find himself in the cross-hairs) didn’t *need* greater motivation. But if they do—and I’m sure other players *need* to be coaxed or coddled, reassured, urged, or berated in ways that we will never hear about—so be it. Do your job, Girardi, and get the most out of your players.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:30:37 +0000

[16] I do care if he needs a pep talk because the failure to get one could lead to a sub par performance. It’s still early in his career, but at some point Joba needs to be more focused if he is going to be a successful starter.

By: 51cq24

51cq24 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:14:32 +0000

[20] the inconsistency is only from last year. give him a chance.

By: a.O

a.O — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:01:12 +0000

[16] Perhaps you missed this, but the lack of consistent results is the only reason we are having this discussion.

By: wsporter

wsporter — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:43:34 +0000

[11} ". . . I don’t think Girardi is the kind of guy who say Joba needed a kick in the pants if, well, he didn’t need a kick in the pants"

Neither do I.

By: Cliff Corcoran

Cliff Corcoran — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:14:09 +0000

[17] I agree with that, too! Though I will say that my low expectations have made what he has achieved already feel like a great deal, whereas some might have expected more and are still waiting for him to live up to their expectations.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:09:53 +0000

[13][14][15] In the end, who cares if Cano is an overachiever or underachiever (indeed, it is awfully hard to prove that one way or another)? All we should care about is what he actually achieves.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:07:16 +0000

I could give a rats ass if Joba needs a pep talk or kick in the pants, so long as the results are there. The job of the coaching staff is to coax the most out of the talent they are given. That includes constructing the rotation, righting out the lineup, handling the press, handling the owner, applying the appropriate level of discipline (is this a “players’ coach” team or a team in need of a sterner hand), psychology, cajoling, love, attention, voodoo…whatever works.

[7] he was a fat fuck that wasn’t really living up to his potential for many years until the infamous clemens pep talk.

Yep. But once Clemens gave him a dose of pep…talk…he suddenly started pitching at a higher level. That crafty veteran Clemens with his pep…talk. ; )

By: Cliff Corcoran

Cliff Corcoran — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:05:11 +0000

[13] I agree completely with that. I actually think Cano is an overachiever because if you look at his minor league record, he did nothing to suggest he would be an elite hitter in the majors.

By: The Hawk

The Hawk — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:30:52 +0000

[13] Well Joba could be both arrogant and stupid, can’t he? In fact the two might sometimes go hand in hand. If he’s ever said anything the least bit insightful, it’s news to me.

As for Cano, he can be one of the best 2B in the game and still an underachiever. Much has been made about his bad hitting with men on base; if he can fix that I’ll take it all back.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:26:54 +0000

[12] I don’t agree that Joba is stupid, and definitely don’t believe Cano is either. Instead, I think Joba suffers from a certain level of arrogance stemming from his early success. As for Cano, the stigmas attached to him to continue to amaze me. He has only established himself as one of the best 2B in the game, and yet it seems as if many regard him as a classic underachiever.