Comments on: Make It Stop

By: MDF

MDF — Sun, 30 May 2010 21:42:20 +0000

I usually don’t read these after-the-big-loss posts until the Yankees win again. While I’m glad I didn’t have to wait very long, now that I’ve read the post and the comments, I’m sick all over again.

By: seamus

seamus — Sun, 30 May 2010 18:17:16 +0000

[20] but Mitre did fail didn’t he? And Mitre is useless against righties. And Joba is supposed to be that basket that you can put all your eggs in. I don’t think relying on Joba is the same as relying on Mitre or Marte at all. It shouldn’t be anyway.

By: RIYank

RIYank — Sun, 30 May 2010 17:04:40 +0000

[22] Obviously. Anybody on the staff should have been able to do that.

By: Raf

Raf — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:58:31 +0000

[17] All Joba had to do in the 7th was get an out with the bottom of the Cleveland order coming up. He should’ve been able to at least do that.

By: Hank Waddles

Hank Waddles — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:58:18 +0000

I was tracking the score from my daughter’s basketball tournament yesterday, and after I got over the shcok of what had happened, my first thought was this: I’m glad I’m not doing the recap here, and I pity the person who is. Thanks, Cliff, for such a thorough job. And please wish your daughter a Happy Birthday for me.

By: RIYank

RIYank — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:57:17 +0000

[18] If Girardi sticks with Mitre or Marte and they fail then people are asking about why he didn’t use Joba.

It’s a five run lead. If Mitre fails, you go to Marte, or Joba, or whoever is next. This is the whole point. You want to be in a situation where you still win the game as long as one of your relief pitchers is okay. Instead, he got himself into a situation where he had to roll the dice on Joba. Look, most of the time that works. But it’s a five run lead! Any strategy is going to work most of the time with a five run lead. The only issue is whether you’re still in a position to be able to win if your first pick is terrible.

Also, I agree that there were several reasonable approaches in that situation. There was only one bad strategy, and that was to put all the eggs in one basket. And that’s the one Girardi chose.

By: Mattpat11

Mattpat11 — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:31:04 +0000

[14] I still maintain that there was reason to believe he could develop into a good starter before they started with the secret starts and the three inning circus starts with him last year. I think the organization completely screwed up his confidence and mindset. He’s been absolutely wretched since at whatever they’ve asked him to do, start or relieve.

By: seamus

seamus — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:24:55 +0000

[17] I don’t agree. That’s a lose-lose situation. If Girardi sticks with Mitre or Marte and they fail then people are asking about why he didn’t use Joba. Bullpen management is a lose-lose situation as it always seems to me, no matter what the manager does, if you lose the fans complain. The problem is that just because a move didn’t work out doesn’t mean it wasn’t one of the right moves (I don’t believe in a single correct move, but nearly every scenario has a set of acceptable moves).

By: RIYank

RIYank — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:14:43 +0000

With a five run lead entering the seventh, all the manager has to do is find one relief pitcher who is not terrible on that particular day. That’s all he has to do. Our bullpen is not good, and Joba is not very good, but any one of those guys could hold a five run lead on most days! So the only really big mistake Girardi could make was the one he made: burn through enough pitchers rapidly enough so that he’s left praying that the one he’s settled on will be not-terrible.
This is so damn obvious. Suppose Mitre doesn’t pitch well. That’s fine — as long as he isn’t just terrible, he finished the game and the Yankees win. Suppose Marte isn’t good. No problem, as long as he isn’t horrendous. So, you give one of those guys a shot, and if he’s terrible then you try someone else, and if he’s terrible too then you try someone else. What you don’t do is burn through them and put all your eggs in Joba’s basket. It was such an egregious example of bullpen roulette.

Maybe he’ll learn from it. (Toooptimistic.)

By: Chyll Will

Chyll Will — Sun, 30 May 2010 16:09:42 +0000

[14] I refuse to believe that. Joba rose very quickly through and stuck with an organization that’s notoriously short on patience with young pitchers for a reason and I doubt it has to do with that. It seems to me his and others’ handling at this level has been highly suspect.

By: Cliff Corcoran

Cliff Corcoran — Sun, 30 May 2010 15:54:59 +0000

[13] you mean last year’s postseason when he averaged 1.75 batters faced per appearance? The theory goes that he was good because he was used as a LOOGY and not exposed over longer stints. I argued for him being used as a full-inning guy when the Yankees got him, but now that I know how fragile and erratic he is, I’m not sure I can argue for that anymore.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Sun, 30 May 2010 15:53:03 +0000

[12] I am not sure why you keep blaming everyone but Joba. Yesterday, Joba had a four run lead to protect and could retire Grudz, LaPorta, Marson, Donald and Crowe. That’s not exactly murder’s row. Like a lot of very hard throwing young pitchers, Joba may just have been a flash in the pan.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Sun, 30 May 2010 15:50:39 +0000

[1] Joba’s problem is the same as it always is…he had very little command with his fastball, which completely took away from the effectiveness of his slider. Even at 95mph, Joba’s fastball is so straight that he can’t get away with it throwing if over the middle of the plate.

The bottom line with Joba is he isn’t the #1 starter or closer we’ve been debating. He is your typical erratic middle reliever. This is the second lead of four runs or more that Joba has blown. Losing games like that leads you right out of the playoffs.

[10] Nornally, going to Joba would be the right move, if Joba was the Joba we all want to believe he is. I can give Girardi a pass for holding out hope, but after yesterday, he needs to think twice about bringing him to tight situations (or have a very short hook with him when he can’t throw strikes). The problem for the Yankees is the entire bullpen stinks. One guy who has had success in the past, however, is Marte, so instead of wasting him as a LOOGY, Girardi needs to start letting him pitch more to see if he can find himself like he did in last year’s post season.

By: Mattpat11

Mattpat11 — Sun, 30 May 2010 15:30:04 +0000

Have I mentioned how thrilled I am that the people that turned Joba into this are now setting their sights on Phil Hughes?

By: Raf

Raf — Sun, 30 May 2010 15:04:04 +0000

[10] With Branyan up, I understand going to Marte. Given the way Girardi manages, we would’ve seen Marte even if Robertson stayed in the game.

By: Cliff Corcoran

Cliff Corcoran — Sun, 30 May 2010 14:44:10 +0000

[6] Who was the reliever who was going good in Saturday’s game? Marte? You wanted him to stay in for a while? I thought pulling Mitre after three pitches was absurd, but Robertson got hurt and no one pitched well save for Marte.

By: Raf

Raf — Sun, 30 May 2010 14:09:00 +0000

[1] Joba’s velocity was there, the command wasn’t. Just about everyone who took the mound yesterday struggled.

By: Alex Belth

Alex Belth — Sun, 30 May 2010 13:54:23 +0000

Cliff, you are a strong, brave man. That was a Twilight Zone game and assignment. I’m making like it didn’t happen, but of course it did.

You da man.

By: Diane Firstman

Diane Firstman — Sun, 30 May 2010 13:36:33 +0000

What a day …. Morales’ fluke injury … Halladay’s perfection … and this game.

By: Diane Firstman

Diane Firstman — Sun, 30 May 2010 13:35:33 +0000

So, when does Dave Eiland sidle up to Joe and offer, “you know … if a reliever is going good, you don’t necessarily have to play “matchups”"?