Comments on: Get the Papers, Get the Papers http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Wed, 22 May 2013 18:52:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: yankintexas http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150554 yankintexas Sat, 30 Oct 2010 01:27:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150554 next 3-5 years. next 3-5 years.

]]> By: yankintexas http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150553 yankintexas Sat, 30 Oct 2010 01:26:17 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150553 While I don't dispute that giving long term deals to pitchers in their 30's is bad business in general, I do think you have to look at things on a case by case basis. In the case with Lee, here's a guy that's been durable and has sound pitching mechanics. He reminds me of Pettitte, Clemens and Moose. My only concern with Lee would be his back since it gave him some trouble this year. IF that checks out I would sign him in a heartbeat. Once rostered I would rank him ahead of everyone except for Hughes as the safest bet in the current rotation to be pitching well in the next 3-5. While I don’t dispute that giving long term deals to pitchers in their 30′s is bad business in general, I do think you have to look at things on a case by case basis. In the case with Lee, here’s a guy that’s been durable and has sound pitching mechanics. He reminds me of Pettitte, Clemens and Moose. My only concern with Lee would be his back since it gave him some trouble this year. IF that checks out I would sign him in a heartbeat. Once rostered I would rank him ahead of everyone except for Hughes as the safest bet in the current rotation to be pitching well in the next 3-5.

]]> By: Yankster http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150552 Yankster Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:10:34 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150552 [6] I'd like to see Joba traded to a team that still thinks he has potential (unlike the Yankees). He might be a head case, but he's a head case whose potential is to be a top 10 starting pitcher. You can probably say that about AJ, too, and that hasn't worked out for the Yankees either. It might not be a good place for head cases or the pitching coach might not have been the right one for the place. Who knows? But Joba has to have more value as a trade chip than as a middle innings reliever. As for Lee, he isn't taking less than a 5 or 6 year deal regardless of the money - and the money is likely to be offered along with the years by a team like Texas. This is not a case where the Yanks can pay more for a three year contract that has Lee looking for a contract at age 35 after pitching with a short right porch for three years. Not going to happen. He will get a Sabathia type deal. Hopefully not from the Yanks. [6] I’d like to see Joba traded to a team that still thinks he has potential (unlike the Yankees). He might be a head case, but he’s a head case whose potential is to be a top 10 starting pitcher. You can probably say that about AJ, too, and that hasn’t worked out for the Yankees either. It might not be a good place for head cases or the pitching coach might not have been the right one for the place. Who knows? But Joba has to have more value as a trade chip than as a middle innings reliever.

As for Lee, he isn’t taking less than a 5 or 6 year deal regardless of the money – and the money is likely to be offered along with the years by a team like Texas. This is not a case where the Yanks can pay more for a three year contract that has Lee looking for a contract at age 35 after pitching with a short right porch for three years. Not going to happen.

He will get a Sabathia type deal. Hopefully not from the Yanks.

]]> By: The Hawk http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150551 The Hawk Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:30:40 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150551 The Joba thing is just tired. He looked like the heir apparent to Mariano for a few weeks, they insisted he was a starter, he got hurt, was mediocre at best (I forget which came first), they bent over backwards to get him ready for a full workload in 2010, they put him in the bullpen anyway, he was mediocre and here we are. Just a mediocre, nothing pitcher. I don't know where it went wrong but on the other hand maybe it's easier and more sensible to look at Joba's initial dominance as a flash in the pan. When there's too much tension between expectation/perception and reality, reality aint the thing that's gonna get adjusted. Y'know? If it walks like a duck, etc. The Joba thing is just tired. He looked like the heir apparent to Mariano for a few weeks, they insisted he was a starter, he got hurt, was mediocre at best (I forget which came first), they bent over backwards to get him ready for a full workload in 2010, they put him in the bullpen anyway, he was mediocre and here we are. Just a mediocre, nothing pitcher.

I don’t know where it went wrong but on the other hand maybe it’s easier and more sensible to look at Joba’s initial dominance as a flash in the pan. When there’s too much tension between expectation/perception and reality, reality aint the thing that’s gonna get adjusted. Y’know? If it walks like a duck, etc.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150550 RIYank Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:27:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150550 Hm, what about rolling the dice on Erik Bedard? Hm, what about rolling the dice on Erik Bedard?

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150549 RIYank Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:12:40 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150549 Huh, RAB seems to take the view that baseball has passed Mazzone by. I guess that's possible, but I definitely think he's worth a shot. The worst case is he's just a mediocre pitching coach, which I suspect is what we end up with otherwise anyway. The upside is huge. Everything in moderation, William. Let this be a lesson to you. Huh, RAB seems to take the view that baseball has passed Mazzone by. I guess that’s possible, but I definitely think he’s worth a shot. The worst case is he’s just a mediocre pitching coach, which I suspect is what we end up with otherwise anyway. The upside is huge.

Everything in moderation, William. Let this be a lesson to you.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150548 williamnyy23 Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:54:41 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150548 What did I do to anger the Banter? I have a brilliant comment in moderation again! :) What did I do to anger the Banter? I have a brilliant comment in moderation again! :)

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150547 williamnyy23 Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:53:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150547 I don't think you can pass up on Lee, especially not in the situation the Yankees find themselves. If Pettitte retires, they have one rock solid starter and a young pitcher (Hughes) with potential. I don't think they can fill out the rotation with AJ, Nova and another veteran retread or rookie arm. That's a recipe for a disaster. Even if Andy comes back, the Yankees are still looking at a rotation with two holes, kind of like the one they had down the stretch during which they played so poorly. In other words, if not Lee, then whom? Unless you can convince me that the Yankees would hampered economically if Lee was only league average over the last 2-3 years of his deal, I think you pay a premium for the next two. As for Joba, I still maintain that his injury during the 2008 season completely changed him. The Yankees probably did botch him, but he's never looked the same since then. I don’t think you can pass up on Lee, especially not in the situation the Yankees find themselves. If Pettitte retires, they have one rock solid starter and a young pitcher (Hughes) with potential. I don’t think they can fill out the rotation with AJ, Nova and another veteran retread or rookie arm. That’s a recipe for a disaster.

Even if Andy comes back, the Yankees are still looking at a rotation with two holes, kind of like the one they had down the stretch during which they played so poorly. In other words, if not Lee, then whom?

Unless you can convince me that the Yankees would hampered economically if Lee was only league average over the last 2-3 years of his deal, I think you pay a premium for the next two.

As for Joba, I still maintain that his injury during the 2008 season completely changed him. The Yankees probably did botch him, but he’s never looked the same since then.

]]> By: Shaun P. http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2010/10/29/get-the-papers-get-the-papers/#comment-150546 Shaun P. Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:45:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=43563#comment-150546 I'm with you and Steve on Lee. A long term deal isn't one I'd feel comfortable with. If they could get him for 3 years, then that's another story, but I don't think it will happen. My "ideal" rotation, if Lee is not in the cards, would be CC-Andy-Phil-AJ-Joba, with Nova as the long man/swing guy when AJ and Andy both inevitably miss time on the DL. Given what Girardi said about Joba, I don't think that's going to happen. Like Jay, I think its a tremendous waste of resources to relegate Joba to single inning bullpen status. Coming up, he had <b>four</b> quality pitches; all he lacked was experience. There's an awfully big difference between a starter who has two pitches at best, and Joba. The first guy you send to the bullpen as soon as its obvious he can't cut it as a starter. The other guy, you give experience to and he should blossom. Its a shame, really, how badly the Yanks botched him. I’m with you and Steve on Lee. A long term deal isn’t one I’d feel comfortable with. If they could get him for 3 years, then that’s another story, but I don’t think it will happen.

My “ideal” rotation, if Lee is not in the cards, would be CC-Andy-Phil-AJ-Joba, with Nova as the long man/swing guy when AJ and Andy both inevitably miss time on the DL. Given what Girardi said about Joba, I don’t think that’s going to happen. Like Jay, I think its a tremendous waste of resources to relegate Joba to single inning bullpen status. Coming up, he had four quality pitches; all he lacked was experience. There’s an awfully big difference between a starter who has two pitches at best, and Joba. The first guy you send to the bullpen as soon as its obvious he can’t cut it as a starter. The other guy, you give experience to and he should blossom. Its a shame, really, how badly the Yanks botched him.

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