Comments on: Generation Gap in CYA Mode

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 18:42:03 +0000

[5] Go right ahead!

By: Alex Belth

Alex Belth — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:14:06 +0000

7) I hear you but it’s also presumptuous to assume that he’s given up on learning just because he doesn’t agree with most of the voters, or the fans around these parts.

Then again–and I’ll now talk out of the other side of my mouth–Mr. Chass has written so often about sabermetrics and with so much hostility, that perhaps you are right.

By: RIYank

RIYank — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 17:05:14 +0000

[4] Geez, I actually forgot that Marshall was a much-time reliever.

Murray Chass is now completely irrelevant except as someone to make fun of. Maybe he realizes this and is trying hard to avoid becoming completely irrelevant?

By: Shaun P.

Shaun P. — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:59:58 +0000

[6] Yes it is. Change is inevitable – but you can’t change if you don’t learn. Chass clearly gave up on learning a long time ago. Truly a shame.

By: rbj

rbj — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:37:14 +0000

Considering that Chass is writing a blog but says it isn’t a blog, just shows how irrelevant and clueless he’s become. Which is a shame.

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:04:50 +0000

[2] Excellent point…I might turn that into a blog post, if you don’t mind me stealing your idea?

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:04:24 +0000

[3] Ahh..but he also had 21 saves, 83 appearances and 0 starts. I have yet to find a fulltime starter whose win total was so low relative to the league leader, but I also didn’t look very hard.

By: RIYank

RIYank — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:54:49 +0000

[2] In 1974 Mike Marshall won the NL Cy with 15 wins. The AL Cy went to Catfish Hunter, 25 wins, though the NL win leaders (Niekro and Messersmith) had just 20.

By: monkeypants

monkeypants — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:26:40 +0000

I have to admit that, while intellectually the vote makes sense to me, that a 13-game winning starter won the award is off-putting to me on an emotional or visceral level. Of course, we have to put 13 wins in context (a. wins are not the most important pitching stat, b. Felix played on a truly awful team, and c. broader trends in the game have resulted in lower wins totals for starters).

I’m interested in c. Doc and CC led the league with 21 wins, so Felix’s 13 wins was 62% of the league leaders.

I wonder, has the CYA ever been awarded to a starter whose wins total was a comparable percentage of the league leader’s? If so, then in context, his award is not really that much of a victory for the statheads. On the other hand, if his percentage is significantly lower than previous precedents, this vote perhaps does mark a significant change in the voters’ attitude toward the CYA even accounting for historical context (i.e., lower wins totals).

By: williamnyy23

williamnyy23 — Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:17:06 +0000

Chass isn’t like any other professional fighting against change because he is too scared to adapt with it. Unfortunately for him, his irrelevance is the result of what happens when you ignore the passage of time…it passes you by as well.

Ironically, however, Felix’ decision isn’t really a victory for sabermetrics, as Kepner notes. Had Cliff Lee or Justin Verlander won, for example, it would have fit better with that narrative.