Comments on: Didn't Need No Welfare State

By: weeping for brunnhilde

weeping for brunnhilde — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:50:29 +0000

And thanks to everyone for all the great, apt comments. I especially have to echo the praise of O’Connor. Absolutely. And not only did he convey so many different emotions and induce genuine emotional responses (pathos), but he did it within the formulaic constraints of a bloody sitcom.

And Matt, yes, excellent point about the character’s likely debt to Ralph Kramden. Very nice.

By: weeping for brunnhilde

weeping for brunnhilde — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:42:34 +0000

I watched the show religiously in my adolescence and even got a reference to Archie Bunker in my college admissions essay, characterizing Yonkers, where I grew up, as “filled with Archie Bunkers.”

Those were the days.

By: Bruce Markusen

Bruce Markusen — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 01:37:48 +0000

My sister had the fortunate chance to meet Carroll O’Connor i NYC just a few years before he passed away. They talked for quite awhile. Mr. O’Connor talked a lot about his son, Hugh, and the anger he felt toward the drugs (and the drug dealer) that ultimately cost Hugh his life. He was really driven to bring that dealer to justice; losing Hugh at such a young age must have really been devastating.

Carroll O’Connor’s brilliance as an actor was really embodied in that role of Archie Bunker. He made that character funny, sad, dramatic, pathetic, sometimes all within the same episode. (Just the way that he mispronounced certain words was brilliant.) And as the series progressed, the character grew and became more likeable. O’Connor pulled off those changes in a remarkably skillful way. I’m not sure that many other actors could have shaped Archie Bunker the way that he did.

By: RagingTartabull

RagingTartabull — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:14:17 +0000

[24] yeah maybe “important” isn’t the right word…either way, they’re tough to top.

By: Matt Blankman

Matt Blankman — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:05:31 +0000

[22] I don’t know about “important,” but they’re two of the greatest in TV history, that’s for sure.

I think O’Connor agreed. Which season was it that he held out for more money and they excused his absence for a couple episodes by saying he was at a convention or some such thing?

Here’s a question – could Archie Bunker have existed without Ralph Kramden as a TV forefather?

By: RagingTartabull

RagingTartabull — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:04:26 +0000

I still remember watching the episode “Archie Gets Branded” when I was about 10, when a Jewish radical who is basically supposed to be Meir Kahane moves into the neighborhood, and being absolutely freaked out by the whole thing. So its not like I always “got” it either.

By: RagingTartabull

RagingTartabull — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:59:11 +0000

[21] oh definitely, I mean thank God that Lear went out on a limb and did this (and hey its not like George Jefferson was played as Mr. Enlightened either), I just always found it funny/sorta sad that there were so many people who looked at Archie as their surrogate.

Really though I think 99% of the credit has to go to Carrol O’Connor for making the whole thing click, I still think his performance and James Gandolfini’s are the two most “important” in American television history. Thats just me.

By: Matt Blankman

Matt Blankman — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:51:54 +0000

[19] That’s no doubt true, but that’s always a risk you run with edgy material. Think of “Taxi Driver.”

By: Matt Blankman

Matt Blankman — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:50:12 +0000

[18] It also hit home for a lot of white viewers who had an Archie in their lives, often someone very near and dear to them. The laughter helped to ease that – and the struggle of reconciling your feelings towards someone you loved despite an aspect to him you found despicable.

What’s the line about Archie’s racism in the Sammy Davis episode? I believe Lionel says Archie’s not that bad, that he talks a lot, but he’d “never burn a cross on your lawn.” To which Davis replies, “No, but if he saw one burning, he might toast a marshmallow on it.”

By: RagingTartabull

RagingTartabull — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:43:04 +0000

I adore the show and do agree that its brilliant, but I absolutely do think Lear unwittingly gave the Silent Majority a mascot on national television that they fully embraced without even a hint of irony.

Then again, if you voted for Nixon chances are you didn’t “do” irony in the first place.

By: Sliced Bread

Sliced Bread — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 22:04:41 +0000

[17] that’s why I say it was a brilliant show – through laughter (most us us were laughing at Archie’s ignorance) it provoked honesty about bigotry, which was very much needed at the time (and sadly, even now).

By: Matt Blankman

Matt Blankman — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:59:37 +0000

[15] Yeah, I definitely remember being too young to “get” the show. It wasn’t until my teens that I came to see just how great it was. A huge amount of credit has to go to that cast. They created real characters, not just talking points.

By: Matt Blankman

Matt Blankman — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:56:42 +0000

[12,13] If I recall correctly, Bill Cosby was not a fan of the show and worried that too many people were watching and agreeing with Archie’s viewpoint rather than seeing him for what he was. While the show and Archie certainly did draw some fans like that, I don’t think it negated the frank discussion of race and bigotry.

By: Alex Belth

Alex Belth — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:49:26 +0000

13) Good point. The show was too abrasive for me as a kid. Abrasive and drab. Those sets always depressed me and the constant yelling just made me want to hide (or change the channel). Later on, I got to dig it more.

By: Sliced Bread

Sliced Bread — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 21:46:14 +0000

[13] fumble… ?

By: Sliced Bread

Sliced Bread — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:52:15 +0000

[12] yeah, that show probably better served Whites, giving them a funhouse mirror in which to recognize, and laugh at racism. I can definitley see why Blacks were turned off by it. Archie’s racism was more out of ignorance than hate. But in real life, there’s plenty of hate (too much) to overshadow comedic ignorance.

By: Chyll Will

Chyll Will — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:45:47 +0000

There were shows I was compelled not to watch as a child, and this was one of them. Archie’s racism stood out more than anything to my family, growing up in the suburbs and being subjected to much worse than what he could have said or done, but it was a annoying reminder to them that we were in somewhat hostile territory even if we could afford to be there like everyone else. The perspective that film school brought me has unhinged the pain if you will; it is a great show as was the Jeffersons and even the seasons of Good Times when the father was alive (Hilarious that I went to an elementary school named James S. Evans, but I didn’t get that until high school). The closest I can think of to any of Lear’s shows that’s playing now is House of Payne by Tyler Perry; which like his movies and plays is closer to minstrel material than classic sitcom. It’s unfortunate that the major broadcast networks are focused primarily on a particular demographic, but with strong competition from cable channels and a growing presence from the internet, I don’t really care anymore. I think if people were to complain about the dearth of diversity on ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX or some of the other broadcast networks, well don’t watch them, watch the other channels or get Netflix/Hulu. There’s TV Land, Nick at Nite, TCM and so on.

It’s sad we have to pay for good programs where less than a generation ago we didn’t, but at least I can find what I want when I want to.

By: Sliced Bread

Sliced Bread — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:44:22 +0000

[10] yeah, bp. that show hasnt crossed my sons’ radar. Now that you mention it, I’d have to explain it to them. These are different times. They understand that – they “voted” for Obama and understand what a big deal that was, but they don’t really understand how much things have changed in the past 40-50 years.

By: bp1

bp1 — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:40:20 +0000

45 here. Watching All in the Family is like putting on home movies. My Dad and Mom served their respective roles pretty well, Dad a working class stiff who managed to provide a comfortable home (with considerable help from Mom of course) yet held some pretty old school views on things, and Mom, who although she worked a job my entire life at home nevertheless was expected to do the “women’s work” as well. Mom was never a naive Edith type, however and Dad knew better than to tell her to stifle herself.

Classic show. I watch it on occasion now with my kids and they just don’t get it, and sometimes they’re even shocked at the language. They’ve never heard the words, and have no clue of the context. Nothing like kids to remind us how much the world has changed.

By: Sliced Bread

Sliced Bread — Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:32:34 +0000

[7] dude, my only advice on turning 40 is watch yer weight. You can’t get away with anything after 40. You eat or drink too much one night, it sticks with you. Don’t get me wrong. You won’t lose your mojo, but you’ll misplace it from time to time, and you’ll have to work harder than ever to keep it where ya want it.