Comments on: Knock, Knock, Knockin'… http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:08:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67120 Jon DeRosa Wed, 12 Jan 2011 19:23:43 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67120 posada's OPS in the postseason is 126 points below career avg. really bad, but among the 10 players with the most postseason ABs, there are 3 other guys who are even worse (lofton, tino and justice). the other six are right around their career numbers, or close enough not to notice. manny and chipper aren't quite as good in the postseason, but are still awesome. jeter, bernie, oneill and reggie are right on career stats or better. so i think posada should not be punished for being bad in the postseason, but bernie should be highly rewarded. posada’s OPS in the postseason is 126 points below career avg. really bad, but among the 10 players with the most postseason ABs, there are 3 other guys who are even worse (lofton, tino and justice).

the other six are right around their career numbers, or close enough not to notice. manny and chipper aren’t quite as good in the postseason, but are still awesome.

jeter, bernie, oneill and reggie are right on career stats or better.

so i think posada should not be punished for being bad in the postseason, but bernie should be highly rewarded.

]]> By: Alex Belth http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67119 Alex Belth Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:27:34 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67119 16) Funny how that would be a sticking point for some guys and not others. 16) Funny how that would be a sticking point for some guys and not others.

]]> By: RIYank http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67118 RIYank Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:20:13 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67118 [13] [14] I agree with Matt. The sportswriters aren't going to remember that Posada didn't hit well in the post-season. [13] [14] I agree with Matt. The sportswriters aren’t going to remember that Posada didn’t hit well in the post-season.

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67117 OldYanksFan Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:18:50 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67117 OPS+ Piazza: 142 (sick for a Catcher!) Mauer: 136 (on his way to the best is history?) Cochrane: 128 Bench: 126 Hartnett: 126 Lombardi: 126 Yogi: 125 Campy: 123 Posada: 123 Fisk: 117 Carter: 115 Ivan; 107 Dickey: 101 In well over 100 years of MLB, there are only 13 (non negro league) Catchers in the Hall..... or about one per decade. Piazza is going in. Ivan should be there. Mauer should end up there. Will the fact that there have been so many quality Catchers post 1990 hurt Po's chances? There is no doubt that Posada's bat plays HOF. The only question is how much his D will hurt him is what is thought of as a primarily Defensive position. OPS+
Piazza: 142 (sick for a Catcher!)
Mauer: 136 (on his way to the best is history?)
Cochrane: 128
Bench: 126
Hartnett: 126
Lombardi: 126
Yogi: 125
Campy: 123
Posada: 123
Fisk: 117
Carter: 115
Ivan; 107
Dickey: 101

In well over 100 years of MLB, there are only 13 (non negro league) Catchers in the Hall….. or about one per decade. Piazza is going in. Ivan should be there. Mauer should end up there. Will the fact that there have been so many quality Catchers post 1990 hurt Po’s chances?

There is no doubt that Posada’s bat plays HOF.
The only question is how much his D will hurt him is what is thought of as a primarily Defensive position.

]]> By: Matt Blankman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67116 Matt Blankman Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:15:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67116 [13] I think it always helps your case to have been a vital part of a team that wins pennants and WS, regardless of how you play in the actual WS. [13] I think it always helps your case to have been a vital part of a team that wins pennants and WS, regardless of how you play in the actual WS.

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67115 Jon DeRosa Wed, 12 Jan 2011 18:11:53 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67115 i wonder if the fact that posada has sucked eggs in the postseason will hurt his cause. and i also wonder if his sporadic usage in the championship years will be scrutinized. he missed the 96 series, only played 5 out of the 8 games in the 1998 and 1999 world series, and was on the bench to start 2 games of the 2009 series. should just playing in postseason games add to the resume? or should you be expected to play well? i have no idea, but i imagine among players with a lot of postseason ABs, not many have stat lines that far off from their career totals. i would def put posada in, i just think it's going to be more difficult for him than most others here. i wonder if the fact that posada has sucked eggs in the postseason will hurt his cause.

and i also wonder if his sporadic usage in the championship years will be scrutinized. he missed the 96 series, only played 5 out of the 8 games in the 1998 and 1999 world series, and was on the bench to start 2 games of the 2009 series.

should just playing in postseason games add to the resume? or should you be expected to play well? i have no idea, but i imagine among players with a lot of postseason ABs, not many have stat lines that far off from their career totals.

i would def put posada in, i just think it’s going to be more difficult for him than most others here.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67114 ms october Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:37:40 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67114 [11] agreed - it's the cf competition that hampers bernie. [11] agreed – it’s the cf competition that hampers bernie.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67113 williamnyy23 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:35:10 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67113 [9] Bernie is middle of the pack among HoF CF'ers in most categories. The problem is the top of the list includes Mantle, DiMaggio, Mays, Cobb and Speaker. [9] Bernie is middle of the pack among HoF CF’ers in most categories. The problem is the top of the list includes Mantle, DiMaggio, Mays, Cobb and Speaker.

]]> By: Matt Blankman http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67112 Matt Blankman Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:34:33 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67112 I think all those WS wins are going to help push Posada over the top. It will take a while, though. I think all those WS wins are going to help push Posada over the top. It will take a while, though.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67111 ms october Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:29:03 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67111 i should say i think bernie has a strong case too, but probably not as strong as po. i should say i think bernie has a strong case too, but probably not as strong as po.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67110 williamnyy23 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:28:54 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67110 Here's a BB discussion on the topic from 2007: http://tinyurl.com/2hb8v5 The numbers were close then. Here’s a BB discussion on the topic from 2007: http://tinyurl.com/2hb8v5

The numbers were close then.

]]> By: ms october http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67109 ms october Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:27:53 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67109 i think po is. and i think he has had more a a hof career than andy or bernie (and i say that as a huge bernie fan). po's numbers as a catcher compare favorably to his contemporary competition as well as the historical standard for the hall at catcher. in addition, although he was never an especially good defensive catcher he was not always the disaster he has been the last few years. although his offensive numbers pale compared to piazza, i think most baseball observers agree he was not as poor a catcher as piazza (not much of a standard i realize, but it is worth something). basically, i think these numbers are hall worthy for a catcher: a triple slash of 275/377/479 123 OPS+ with peak years around 130 369 wOBA 127 wRC+ i think po is. and i think he has had more a a hof career than andy or bernie (and i say that as a huge bernie fan). po’s numbers as a catcher compare favorably to his contemporary competition as well as the historical standard for the hall at catcher.
in addition, although he was never an especially good defensive catcher he was not always the disaster he has been the last few years. although his offensive numbers pale compared to piazza, i think most baseball observers agree he was not as poor a catcher as piazza (not much of a standard i realize, but it is worth something).

basically, i think these numbers are hall worthy for a catcher:
a triple slash of 275/377/479
123 OPS+ with peak years around 130
369 wOBA
127 wRC+

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67108 williamnyy23 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:24:49 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67108 [3] He definitely merits it. As an offensive catcher, he is already there. What remains is how one feels about him as a defender. His later reputation could be what sticks, but in his prime, Posada was also pretty good behind the plate. [3] He definitely merits it. As an offensive catcher, he is already there. What remains is how one feels about him as a defender. His later reputation could be what sticks, but in his prime, Posada was also pretty good behind the plate.

]]> By: Chyll Will http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67107 Chyll Will Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:24:11 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67107 If Gary Carter's in the HoF, so should Jorge... If Gary Carter’s in the HoF, so should Jorge…

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67106 williamnyy23 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:23:32 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67106 [2] Bernie really has a strong case, but he is the anti-Rice candidate. His reputation was always underwhelming compared to his statistics. [2] Bernie really has a strong case, but he is the anti-Rice candidate. His reputation was always underwhelming compared to his statistics.

]]> By: Alex Belth http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67105 Alex Belth Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:22:24 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67105 1) Is that because he merits it or because we are being sentimental? 1) Is that because he merits it or because we are being sentimental?

]]> By: Alex Belth http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67104 Alex Belth Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:21:38 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67104 He's pretty dang close. I bet he does better than Bernie. He’s pretty dang close. I bet he does better than Bernie.

]]> By: williamnyy23 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/01/12/knock-knock-knockin/#comment-67103 williamnyy23 Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:21:31 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=46902#comment-67103 We've had the Posada Hall of Fame discussion here at BB annually for the past few years, and each time he gets closer and closer. We’ve had the Posada Hall of Fame discussion here at BB annually for the past few years, and each time he gets closer and closer.

]]>