Comments on: Rolling the Dice-K http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/ Development site for Bronx Banter Blog's upcoming look and feel Wed, 22 May 2013 02:03:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74201 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 23:15:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74201 [20] In hindsight, yes it was a mistake. But given the information on hand at the time, it was a perfectly reasonable signing. [20] In hindsight, yes it was a mistake. But given the information on hand at the time, it was a perfectly reasonable signing.

]]> By: Mr OK Jazz Tokyo http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74200 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:36:09 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74200 Not a scout or pitching coach but after watching Japanese pitchers routinely throw 150+ pitches from the time they are 18 years old, I wouldn't sign any of them past age 25. Not a scout or pitching coach but after watching Japanese pitchers routinely throw 150+ pitches from the time they are 18 years old, I wouldn’t sign any of them past age 25.

]]> By: OldYanksFan http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74199 OldYanksFan Wed, 13 Apr 2011 21:25:57 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74199 [5] I agree. It was Iggy of Ted Lily, who was rumored to get around 4/$40m. Since $25m if Iggy's cost was 'Tax Free', his actual cost (compared to paying salary + Tax on another player) was a bit over $7m. Since Iggy led the leagure in K's one year, and was considered a top pitcher in Japan, Cashman simply though the Iggy ($7m) was a better deal then Lily ($10m) It was a bust, but the thinking behind the deal was sound. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Schedule Aug/Sep Home (3) Angles (3) Rays (3) Athletics (3) J's (3) O's (2) Rays (3) Red Sox ------ 20 AWAY (4) White Sox (3) Red Sox (3) Royals (4) Twins (4) O's (3) Red Sox (3) Angels (3) M's (3) J's (3) Rays ------- 33 Frankly, that's a sucky last 2 months. The 2 rainouts (and maybe another tonight) means we may get 2 (or more) additional home games late in the season. So while I hate a night without baseball, having Minn (or another team) have to make a special out-of-their-way trip to NY for a make up game, is a good thing for us. [5] I agree. It was Iggy of Ted Lily, who was rumored to get around 4/$40m. Since $25m if Iggy’s cost was ‘Tax Free’, his actual cost (compared to paying salary + Tax on another player) was a bit over $7m.

Since Iggy led the leagure in K’s one year, and was considered a top pitcher in Japan, Cashman simply though the Iggy ($7m) was a better deal then Lily ($10m)

It was a bust, but the thinking behind the deal was sound.
———————————————————————————-
Schedule Aug/Sep
Home
(3) Angles
(3) Rays
(3) Athletics
(3) J’s
(3) O’s
(2) Rays
(3) Red Sox
——
20

AWAY
(4) White Sox
(3) Red Sox
(3) Royals
(4) Twins
(4) O’s
(3) Red Sox
(3) Angels
(3) M’s
(3) J’s
(3) Rays
——-
33

Frankly, that’s a sucky last 2 months. The 2 rainouts (and maybe another tonight) means we may get 2 (or more) additional home games late in the season. So while I hate a night without baseball, having Minn (or another team) have to make a special out-of-their-way trip to NY for a make up game, is a good thing for us.

]]> By: Sliced Bread http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74198 Sliced Bread Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:55:42 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74198 [18] I meant to say "bid"wildly too much on Igawa, and let's face it, they spent wildly too much on him when you consider what they've gotten in return. [18] I meant to say “bid”wildly too much on Igawa, and let’s face it, they spent wildly too much on him when you consider what they’ve gotten in return.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74197 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:55:10 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74197 [16] Didn't realize they were so close. I guess the rest of the teams that were in on Matsuzaka submitted similar bids? The thing that stands out to me was shock that the Red Sox bid was so high. [16] Didn’t realize they were so close. I guess the rest of the teams that were in on Matsuzaka submitted similar bids? The thing that stands out to me was shock that the Red Sox bid was so high.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74196 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:49:15 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74196 [15] Wildly too much on Igawa would've been paying him similar to what they paid Matsuzaka. As it was, they would up paying him around 10M (counting posting fee) a year, which I suppose was reasonable for a mid rotation starter back then; IIRC, Ted Lilly & Carl Pavano signed similar contracts. [15] Wildly too much on Igawa would’ve been paying him similar to what they paid Matsuzaka. As it was, they would up paying him around 10M (counting posting fee) a year, which I suppose was reasonable for a mid rotation starter back then; IIRC, Ted Lilly & Carl Pavano signed similar contracts.

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74195 Jon DeRosa Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:47:15 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74195 and the bids were accepted 2 weeks apart in November 2006, so they weren't conducted at the same time. and the bids were accepted 2 weeks apart in November 2006, so they weren’t conducted at the same time.

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74194 Jon DeRosa Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:42:57 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74194 the yanks reportedly bid about 33 for dicek and 25 for igawa. not the same, but too close for comfort. the yanks reportedly bid about 33 for dicek and 25 for igawa. not the same, but too close for comfort.

]]> By: Sliced Bread http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74193 Sliced Bread Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:36:08 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74193 [14] I recall the Igawa bid was well after Matsuzaka, and yes, I think they were similar bids even though Matsuzaka was widely seen as the superior talent. I think it's safe to say that the Yankees spent wildly too much on Igawa partially, if not mostly in response to losing out on Matsuzaka. [14] I recall the Igawa bid was well after Matsuzaka, and yes, I think they were similar bids even though Matsuzaka was widely seen as the superior talent. I think it’s safe to say that the Yankees spent wildly too much on Igawa partially, if not mostly in response to losing out on Matsuzaka.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74192 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:31:56 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74192 [9] I'm not sure if they were, but given that the Red Sox bid for Matsuzaka was so high, I wonder if the Yankees' bid for him was similar to what they bid for Igawa. [9] I’m not sure if they were, but given that the Red Sox bid for Matsuzaka was so high, I wonder if the Yankees’ bid for him was similar to what they bid for Igawa.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74191 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:27:34 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74191 [10] Javy was young starter signed to a reasonable contract, taking advantage of a Montreal fire sale. When Javy was reacquired in 2009, he was to be a league average innings eater, solidifying the rotation. This time, Atlanta was the benefactor of salary relief. Kevin Brown was acquired for Jeff Weaver (another young starter signed to a reasonable contract), and was having a decent 2004 up until he took on a clubhouse wall in Baltimore. He fell apart in 2005. The logic behind acquiring Randy Johnson was the same as acquiring Roger Clemens back in 1999; Wells (Vazquez) was good, but if the opportunity to get a pitcher the caliber of Clemens (RJ) comes up, you have to take it. Clemens was reacquired when the Yankees' pitching staff suffered an overwhelming number of injuries, including Clemens himself. [10] Javy was young starter signed to a reasonable contract, taking advantage of a Montreal fire sale. When Javy was reacquired in 2009, he was to be a league average innings eater, solidifying the rotation. This time, Atlanta was the benefactor of salary relief. Kevin Brown was acquired for Jeff Weaver (another young starter signed to a reasonable contract), and was having a decent 2004 up until he took on a clubhouse wall in Baltimore. He fell apart in 2005. The logic behind acquiring Randy Johnson was the same as acquiring Roger Clemens back in 1999; Wells (Vazquez) was good, but if the opportunity to get a pitcher the caliber of Clemens (RJ) comes up, you have to take it. Clemens was reacquired when the Yankees’ pitching staff suffered an overwhelming number of injuries, including Clemens himself.

]]> By: Sliced Bread http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74190 Sliced Bread Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:13:58 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74190 Good stuff, Emma. Somehow the Matsuzaka Affair seems like 10 years ago. I remember feeling very bummed that we didn't get him, and bitterly scorned that the Red Sox won the bidding. Blew us out of the water. Remember Bronx Banterer Mike Plough? (anybody seen him around?) He'd seen a lot of Matsuzaka in Japan, and wrote with such conviction that his talent would translate to big things here. Out of all the good things, and hype I'd read about Matsuzaka, Plough's analysis was the most convincing to me. Anyway, I don't really have anything of substance to add to the conversation, but when I think about Matsuzaka in pinstripes, and what could have been - i still like to think he would have been better off in NY. I don't know why I think that. Maybe it's just my Yankees superiority complex (this is a documented condition yes?). Im not suggesting the Yankees would have handled him better, or gotten more consistency out of him, but something tells me he would have taken a shine to the Big Apple along with his fellow Japanese superstar, Hideki Matsui. I think Matsuzaka was bummed that he didn't come here, and the adjustment would have somehow been easier for him. I dunno, probably just New York Yankee jive talk, but whatever. Good stuff, Emma. Somehow the Matsuzaka Affair seems like 10 years ago.

I remember feeling very bummed that we didn’t get him, and bitterly scorned that the Red Sox won the bidding. Blew us out of the water.

Remember Bronx Banterer Mike Plough? (anybody seen him around?) He’d seen a lot of Matsuzaka in Japan, and wrote with such conviction that his talent would translate to big things here. Out of all the good things, and hype I’d read about Matsuzaka, Plough’s analysis was the most convincing to me.

Anyway, I don’t really have anything of substance to add to the conversation, but when I think about Matsuzaka in pinstripes, and what could have been – i still like to think he would have been better off in NY.
I don’t know why I think that. Maybe it’s just my Yankees superiority complex (this is a documented condition yes?).

Im not suggesting the Yankees would have handled him better, or gotten more consistency out of him, but something tells me he would have taken a shine to the Big Apple along with his fellow Japanese superstar, Hideki Matsui. I think Matsuzaka was bummed that he didn’t come here, and the adjustment would have somehow been easier for him.

I dunno, probably just New York Yankee jive talk, but whatever.

]]> By: Mattpat11 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74189 Mattpat11 Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:03:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74189 Never, ever liked Matsuzaka. He mastered that Pedro-Schilling-Beckett "throw at hitter, stare smugly, and than act appalled when they call you out on it" routine from almost day one. Never, ever liked Matsuzaka. He mastered that Pedro-Schilling-Beckett “throw at hitter, stare smugly, and than act appalled when they call you out on it” routine from almost day one.

]]> By: bp1 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74188 bp1 Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:55:20 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74188 [7] Maybe you are right. I lumped Javy Vasquez, Kevin Brown, and Big Unit into the "bad signings" category, but that might be 20/20 hindsite (although most of us hated the Javy signing). And of course the Roger "Oh my goodness gracious" mid season signing. It's easy to evaluate pitching after the fact, and maybe that is what I was guilty of. [7] Maybe you are right. I lumped Javy Vasquez, Kevin Brown, and Big Unit into the “bad signings” category, but that might be 20/20 hindsite (although most of us hated the Javy signing). And of course the Roger “Oh my goodness gracious” mid season signing. It’s easy to evaluate pitching after the fact, and maybe that is what I was guilty of.

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74187 Jon DeRosa Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:32:22 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74187 [8] Were the bids conducted at the same time? That doesn't ring a bell, but I guess it could be. Either way, if they won both bids, they could have just sent Igawa back w/o signing him since they didn't need him anymore. [8] Were the bids conducted at the same time? That doesn’t ring a bell, but I guess it could be. Either way, if they won both bids, they could have just sent Igawa back w/o signing him since they didn’t need him anymore.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74186 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:27:29 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74186 [6] Maybe, maybe not; the Yanks but bids on both pitchers. [6] Maybe, maybe not; the Yanks but bids on both pitchers.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74185 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:20:20 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74185 [2] Other than Burnett, Pavano and Wright, I don't see many "red flag" signings made by the Yanks in recent years. [3] From Matsuzaka, to Halliday to Johan Santana, the Yankees' pitching staffs could've had a lot of different looks [2] Other than Burnett, Pavano and Wright, I don’t see many “red flag” signings made by the Yanks in recent years.

[3] From Matsuzaka, to Halliday to Johan Santana, the Yankees’ pitching staffs could’ve had a lot of different looks

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74184 Jon DeRosa Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:18:52 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74184 [5] Yes their expectations, and $, were much different. But it's safe to say Igawa would not be a Yankee if they won the Matsuzaka bidding. [5] Yes their expectations, and $, were much different. But it’s safe to say Igawa would not be a Yankee if they won the Matsuzaka bidding.

]]> By: Raf http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74183 Raf Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:11:05 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74183 [0] I don't think Igawa was a response to Matsuzaka, they were presented differently, and had different levels of success in Japan. Igawa was brought in to fill in the back end of the rotation, IIRC several articles written at the time mentioned that. [1] Attrition rate for pitchers is high, no matter the country. Japanese pitchers are still something of a novelty, given the attention they garner, so if they fail, they fail with a higher profile, than if it were someone from the states or from the Caribbean. [0] I don’t think Igawa was a response to Matsuzaka, they were presented differently, and had different levels of success in Japan. Igawa was brought in to fill in the back end of the rotation, IIRC several articles written at the time mentioned that.

[1] Attrition rate for pitchers is high, no matter the country. Japanese pitchers are still something of a novelty, given the attention they garner, so if they fail, they fail with a higher profile, than if it were someone from the states or from the Caribbean.

]]> By: Jon DeRosa http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2011/04/13/rolling-the-dice-k/#comment-74182 Jon DeRosa Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:50:36 +0000 http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=52634#comment-74182 [3] i meant joba and hughes did nothing in the 2009 postseason, not that they did nothing during the year... [3] i meant joba and hughes did nothing in the 2009 postseason, not that they did nothing during the year…

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