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	<title>Comments on: Trout&#8217;s It, but Don&#8217;t Shout It</title>
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	<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/</link>
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		<title>By: kenboyer made me cry</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294684</link>
		<dc:creator>kenboyer made me cry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 04:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294684</guid>
		<description>[12] All that, i agree with you.  Baseball provides the easiest  (and usually the most cliched) life metaphors.  Maybe people are too lazy or just unwilling to visualize or wrap their heads around how the additional metrics flesh out in performance.  

That being said, the game and it&#039;s effect is an individual condition.  So you really can&#039;t complain what the writers determine.  One can feel the system is unfair, and how the key holders are selected; but that&#039;s another issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[12] All that, i agree with you.  Baseball provides the easiest  (and usually the most cliched) life metaphors.  Maybe people are too lazy or just unwilling to visualize or wrap their heads around how the additional metrics flesh out in performance.  </p>
<p>That being said, the game and it&#8217;s effect is an individual condition.  So you really can&#8217;t complain what the writers determine.  One can feel the system is unfair, and how the key holders are selected; but that&#8217;s another issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon DeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294664</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon DeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294664</guid>
		<description>[9] It&#039;s a game, a sport, an athletic competition. Neither art nor science. It&#039;s fans&#039; interface with the game that makes it art or science. So for any fan it can be any of those things or all of those things. It&#039;s one of the reasons it&#039;s so popular.

But it&#039;s kind of funny that the crowd you are calling the &quot;science&quot; crowd is advocating the all-around player, with blazing speed and flash and excitement and spectacular plays. And the &quot;art&quot; crowd in your formulation wants the award to go to the big bat who does nothing else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[9] It&#8217;s a game, a sport, an athletic competition. Neither art nor science. It&#8217;s fans&#8217; interface with the game that makes it art or science. So for any fan it can be any of those things or all of those things. It&#8217;s one of the reasons it&#8217;s so popular.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s kind of funny that the crowd you are calling the &#8220;science&#8221; crowd is advocating the all-around player, with blazing speed and flash and excitement and spectacular plays. And the &#8220;art&#8221; crowd in your formulation wants the award to go to the big bat who does nothing else.</p>
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		<title>By: kenboyer made me cry</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294659</link>
		<dc:creator>kenboyer made me cry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 02:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294659</guid>
		<description>[10] Yeah, I can see that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[10] Yeah, I can see that.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Belth</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294655</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Belth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 01:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294655</guid>
		<description>9) I agree but don&#039;t think the vote for Trout is science over art. I think the artistry of his base running and his fielding--oh, those home run robbing highlights--is what tipped it in Trout&#039;s favor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>9) I agree but don&#8217;t think the vote for Trout is science over art. I think the artistry of his base running and his fielding&#8211;oh, those home run robbing highlights&#8211;is what tipped it in Trout&#8217;s favor.</p>
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		<title>By: kenboyer made me cry</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294597</link>
		<dc:creator>kenboyer made me cry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 22:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294597</guid>
		<description>Angling for Trout is sporting, but the Triple Corona inspiring.  I&#039;m done weighing in on this.  The modernists are adamant, and probably correct.  To me baseball is art not science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angling for Trout is sporting, but the Triple Corona inspiring.  I&#8217;m done weighing in on this.  The modernists are adamant, and probably correct.  To me baseball is art not science.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon DeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294589</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon DeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294589</guid>
		<description>[7] I guess the macro view to see if Cabrera helped the Tigers is to add up the value they got from 1B, 3B and DH and see if there was a way to improve that by moving Cabrera off 3B.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[7] I guess the macro view to see if Cabrera helped the Tigers is to add up the value they got from 1B, 3B and DH and see if there was a way to improve that by moving Cabrera off 3B.</p>
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		<title>By: rbj</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294588</link>
		<dc:creator>rbj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294588</guid>
		<description>[5] Yeah, it was just a quicky eyeballing of defense. A three win loss defensively that&#039;s offset by how many gained offensively?

Anyway, a great debate to have during the off season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[5] Yeah, it was just a quicky eyeballing of defense. A three win loss defensively that&#8217;s offset by how many gained offensively?</p>
<p>Anyway, a great debate to have during the off season.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon DeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294587</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon DeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294587</guid>
		<description>Another important note: that&#039;s a tiger trout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another important note: that&#8217;s a tiger trout.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon DeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294584</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon DeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294584</guid>
		<description>[4] Yes, that&#039;s exactly the type of argument that does not deserve the eye roll associated with most of the pro-Cabrera sentiments.

In reference to the defensive side of the equation, you&#039;re right it&#039;s hard to quantify exactly how many runs Cabrera cost the Tigers at third. Inge profiles as a good fielder though (fangraphs has him a plus defender 8 years in a row, sometimes a big plus), so fielding % is probably not the way to go. Cabrera is awful according to every system and every scout. According to those measures between Inge and Cabrera, the Tigers lost anywhere from 1 to 3 wins in that exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[4] Yes, that&#8217;s exactly the type of argument that does not deserve the eye roll associated with most of the pro-Cabrera sentiments.</p>
<p>In reference to the defensive side of the equation, you&#8217;re right it&#8217;s hard to quantify exactly how many runs Cabrera cost the Tigers at third. Inge profiles as a good fielder though (fangraphs has him a plus defender 8 years in a row, sometimes a big plus), so fielding % is probably not the way to go. Cabrera is awful according to every system and every scout. According to those measures between Inge and Cabrera, the Tigers lost anywhere from 1 to 3 wins in that exchange.</p>
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		<title>By: rbj</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294583</link>
		<dc:creator>rbj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294583</guid>
		<description>Tigers 3B man the past three years was Brandon Inge, who fielded .955, .977, and .964 from 2009 - 2011. Miguel at first those years fielded .995, .990 and .991 (and yes I&#039;m just using fielding % because I don&#039;t know what are the good defensive metrics, and I&#039;m just doing a quick back of the envelope thing). His fielding % at third this year was .966. So the Tigers didn&#039;t really lose anything defensively at third (aside from some range I will bet) which gaining much more defensively.

To me, MVP does not necessarily mean best overall player because then pitchers, who are in maybe 33 at best games should never ever win. I consider it to be a part scientific and part artistic award, so I do factor in intangibles. Miguel selflessly helped his team improve offensively at third while maintaining production at first. Playing well down the stretch counts, and being able to take advantage of Chicago&#039;s gagging counts. No one took advantage of the Yankees stumble in 2000. Plus, triple crown. I give it to Cabrera.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tigers 3B man the past three years was Brandon Inge, who fielded .955, .977, and .964 from 2009 &#8211; 2011. Miguel at first those years fielded .995, .990 and .991 (and yes I&#8217;m just using fielding % because I don&#8217;t know what are the good defensive metrics, and I&#8217;m just doing a quick back of the envelope thing). His fielding % at third this year was .966. So the Tigers didn&#8217;t really lose anything defensively at third (aside from some range I will bet) which gaining much more defensively.</p>
<p>To me, MVP does not necessarily mean best overall player because then pitchers, who are in maybe 33 at best games should never ever win. I consider it to be a part scientific and part artistic award, so I do factor in intangibles. Miguel selflessly helped his team improve offensively at third while maintaining production at first. Playing well down the stretch counts, and being able to take advantage of Chicago&#8217;s gagging counts. No one took advantage of the Yankees stumble in 2000. Plus, triple crown. I give it to Cabrera.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon DeRosa</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294580</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon DeRosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294580</guid>
		<description>[1] Had Trout not been in the equation, I think we&#039;d be writing furiously (and futiley) to get Cano the award over Miguel Cabrera.

[2] Trout&#039;s excellence can be expressed in many ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[1] Had Trout not been in the equation, I think we&#8217;d be writing furiously (and futiley) to get Cano the award over Miguel Cabrera.</p>
<p>[2] Trout&#8217;s excellence can be expressed in many ways.</p>
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		<title>By: OldYanksFan</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294579</link>
		<dc:creator>OldYanksFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294579</guid>
		<description>Trout also leads in OPS+, RC+ and wOBA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trout also leads in OPS+, RC+ and wOBA.</p>
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		<title>By: thelarmis</title>
		<link>http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/2012/10/05/trouts-it-but-dont-shout-it/#comment-294578</link>
		<dc:creator>thelarmis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=92775#comment-294578</guid>
		<description>tremendous article, jon!

let trout and cabrera votes cancel each other out and give the award to Robbie! ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tremendous article, jon!</p>
<p>let trout and cabrera votes cancel each other out and give the award to Robbie! ; )</p>
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