"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Seattle Mariners

Seattle Mariners

2009 Record: 39-36 (.520)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 36-39 (.480)

2008 Record: 61-101 (.377)
2008 Pythagorean Record: 67-95 (.414)

Manager: Don Wakamatsu
General Manager: Jack Zduriencik

Home Ballpark (Park Factors): Safeco Field (96/97)

Who’s Replacing Whom:

  • Russell Branyan replaces Raul Ibañez
  • Ken Griffey Jr. replaces Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro
  • Franklin Gutierrez replaces Jeremy Reed and Willie Bloomquist
  • Rob Johnson (minors) replaces Jeff Clement (minors)
  • Chris Woodward is filling in for Adrian Beltre (DL)
  • Ronny Cedeño is filling in for Yuniesky Betancourt (DL)
  • Mike Sweeney replaces Bryan LaHair (minors)
  • Josh Wilson replaces Miguel Cairo
  • Mike Carp replaces Willie Bloomquist
  • Ryan Langerhans replaces Brad Wilkerson and others
  • Garrett Olson is filling in for Erik Bedard (DL)
  • Jason Vargas is filling in for Carlos Silva (DL)
  • Brandon Morrow is taking over the starts of Ryan Feierabend (DL) and R.A. Dickey
  • David Aardsma replaces J.J. Putz
  • Sean White replaces Sean Green
  • Chris Jakubauskas replaces Rowland-Smith’s relief innings

25-man Roster:

1B – Russell Branyan (L)
2B – Jose Lopez (R)
SS – Ronny Cedeño (R)
3B – Chris Woodward (R)
C – Kenji Johjima (R)
RF – Ichiro Suzuki (L)
CF – Franklin Gutierrez (R)
LF – Wladimir Balentien (R)
DH – Ken Griffey Jr. (L)


R – Mike Sweeney (1B)
R – Josh Wilson (IF)
L – Mike Carp (1B/OF)
L – Ryan Langerhans (OF)
R – Rob Johnson (C)


R – Felix Hernandez
L – Garrett Olson
R – Brandon Morrow
L – Jarrod Washburn
L – Jason Vargas


R – David Aardsma
R – Mark Lowe
R – Miguel Batista
R – Sean White
R – Chris Jakubauskas
R – Roy Corcoran

15-day DL: 3B – Adrian Beltre (bone spurs in shoulder), SS – Yuniesky Betancourt (hamstring), LHP – Erik Bedard (shoulder inflammation), RHP – Shawn Kelley (oblique strain)

60-day DL: LF – Endy Chavez (ACL), RHP – Carlos Silva (labrum, rotator cuff), LHP Cesar Jimenez (shoulder and biceps tendonitis), LHP – Ryan Feierabend (TJ)

Typical Lineup:

L – Ichiro Suzuki (RF)
L – Russell Branyan (1B)
L – Ken Griffey Jr. (DH)
R – Jose Lopez (2B)
R – Franklin Gutierrez (CF)
R – Kenji Johjima (C)
R – Wladimir Balentein (LF)
R – Ronny Cedeño (SS)
R – Chris Woodward (3B)

The hot trick around baseball these days is to focus on defense with the understanding that much of what we think of as pitching is actually fielding; that is, it’s all run-prevention, and keeping runs of the board is half the battle in baseball. The Mariners are an excellent example of this.

Having obtained Endy Chavez and Franklin Gutierrez in the three-team J.J. Putz trade, the Mariners opened the season with an outfield of Chavez, Gutierrez, and Ichiro Suzuki that was staggeringly proficient at tracking down baseballs. This after five years of enduring Raul Ibañez’s misaventures in left and failing to find an adequate replacement for Mike Cameron in center. Given the spacious pastures of Safeco field, that upgrade meant more to the Mariners than it might have to other teams, and that outfield, along with Adrian Beltre, who is one of the best fielders in the game and the best defensive third baseman in the American League, and solid play at first and second base gave the Mariners one of the American  League’s best defenses, which, in turn, gave them one of the best pitching staffs.

The Mariners are still the stingiest team in the AL, with the league’s third-best defensive efficiency and a league-low 4.08 runs allowed per game, but one wonders how long they’ll be able to keep it up. Chavez tore his ACL a little over a week ago and has been lost for the season. Beltre hits the DL today in anticipation of surgery to remove bone chips from his left shoulder and will miss roughly six weeks. Erik Bedard, who had been rivaling Felix Hernandez for the title of staff ace is again on the DL with shoulder inflammation (though the M’s hope to get him back soon).

The Mariners replacements are either average in the field (Wladimir Balentin in left field) or non-existant (Chris Woodward at third?), which won’t help the fact that even with the league’s stingiest pitching staff, the M’s have been outscored on the season. In fact, the only team in the majors worse at scoring runs this season than the Mariners has been the woeful Padres, and the Pads haven’t been that much worse (3.83 R/G to Seattle’s 3.88).

Yes, Ichiro is having perhaps his best season at the plate (.372/.402/.500), and Three True Outcome hero Russell Branyan has broken out of his Quadruple-A box at age 33 with an even better showing (.303/.400/.609), but that’s it. No other M has been as good as league average. It’s nice to see Ken Griffey Jr. back in a Mariner uni, and his nine home runs have all given fans a rush of nostalgia, but they’re not sustaining his .218 average. Gutierrez is hitting nearly 50 points higher than Junior, but his on-base and slugging numbers are a near exact match (roughly .333/.405). Second baseman Jose Lopez continues to defy his own hype (most recently perpetrated during the WBC) by getting on base at a .290 clip. Everyone else is an injury replacement (Kenji Johjima just got off the DL himself and has gone 0-for-8 in his first two games back, droping his season line to .229/.253/.354), and none of them are hitting.

That increases the pressure on the pitchers, which can’t be helping tonight’s starter, 24-year-old Brandon Morrow, who is making the Joba-like transition from the bullpen to the rotation. Some of you might remember the Morrow pwned the Yankees in an early September start last year, taking a no-hitter two outs into the eight inning (final line: 7 2/3 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 8 K). Morrow has fantastic stuff, but has been jerked around by his team. Having transitioned from the bullpen to the rotation last September, he was then put back in the bullpen and named the closer coming out of camp this year, only for the M’s to again have second thoughts and, after a brief injury time out, decide again to put him in the rotation.

The Joba argument applies here; Morrow is too talented not to give him every chance to suceed in the rotation. Fortunately, that’s what the M’s are doing. Tonight will be his fourth start of the season, and his first without a pitch limit. He’s had middling results in his first three, but he struck out 10 against just two walks over nine innings in his last two starts, so the signs good for the M’s, who would love to have Morrow and King Felix front their rotation for years to come.

Appropriately, Morrow faces Joba Chamberlain himself tonight. Joba has been inconsistent thus far this year, but hasn’t allowed four runs in any of his last eight proper starts (leaving out the one ended early by a comebacker), and after walking nine men in ten innings against the Mets and Nats, didn’t walk a soul in 6 1/3 strong innings against the Braves his last time out.

The Yanks run out their standard lineup behind Joba tonight and say they’ll get the game in despite the rain. Eric Hinske’s plane was delayed, but when he arrives (which could be after the game), Ramiro Peña will be optioned to make room for him. Pete Abe reports that the Yankees want Peña to get work in the outfield in Triple-A in the hope of making him super-utility player. I’ll leave that one alone for the moment.

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Game Thread  Series Preview

Share: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email %PRINT_TEXT


Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:36 pm

When Hinske was on the Sox, I remember thinking 'why can't we get bench players like that?'. Well whaddayaknow. Although, I guess the memory of his ROY season has me overrating his ability. He has exactly a 100 OPS+, but dead average should mean an above average bench player.

What happened to him? He showed such promise as a rookie. 650 PA, 24 HR, 119 OPS+. In 2006, he managed a 114+ OPS. Anyway, it seems we got him for nothing, he has some pop, and can play 3rd and OF, which makes him a good fit for us. Let's hope he likes NY.

2 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:36 pm

Rain. Blech.

Forecast is awful around here. People are reporting penny-sized hail. Hopefully it's not that bad down there.

Cashman said he realized the Yankees needed more options when Girardi was forced to pinch-hit Gardner last week. That's why he went after Hinske.

3 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:37 pm

[1] Oh no, now you've done it!

4 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:40 pm

Jeez... Cano still in the 5 hole with Swish batting 8th. I'm thinking less and less of Girardi all the time (the William Effect?).

5 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:44 pm

[4] Swisher batting 8th is...perplexing...

6 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:48 pm

IF there is a game mo is throwing out the first pitch (according to petey)

7 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 6:52 pm

Pirates and Nats finally do the Nyjer Morgan / Lastings Milledge deal .... interesting, from both sides.

8 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:00 pm

They really should drop Cano in the batting order. At least put him after Posada.

9 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:00 pm

7:45 projected 1st pitch.

this was funny from Petey

• Brian Bruney shaved his mustache. He wanted to lose it a few days ago because he hasn’t been pitching as well as he wants. But he had a bet with Phil Hughes that he would keep it until the All-Star break and didn’t want to give in.

But Hughes, being a magnanimous guy, cut a deal with Bruney. So Bruney shaved it off 15 minutes ago abd Hughes will soon get a black Bose Sound Dock for his iPod. No fool is Hughes.

If I were Bruney a Bose Sound Deck is small price to pay for being able to shave that 'thing' off my lip ...

10 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:03 pm

[5] weakened by the ear infection???

otherwise, I gots nothing ...

11 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:05 pm

since girardi had to juggle the line-up so much last year i think he is *desperate* to run out a fairly consistent line-up this year. so i think it is going to take something drastic for him to move cano down. but he really should do it - any given line-up may not make that much of a difference over the course of the season, but it could in any given game and the al east is looking to be competitive all year.

[9] hughes better hope none of bruney's stache ends up in his sound dock

12 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:06 pm


I'm struggling trying to remember another instance of an active baseball player throwing out the first pitch.

13 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:06 pm

@ 1

And three years late they've got him!

@ 2

Fucking moron. So now the manager will have the ability to pinch hit a guy OPSing .750 instead of a guy OPSing....



14 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:07 pm

[9] Wow, I wonder what the original bet was?

15 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:14 pm

[12] the only one i can think of is that nujob kevin millar when he was with the o's for that red sox playoff game

i can't think of anyone who might actually play in that game like mo

16 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:22 pm

[13] don't you mean a guy OPSing .740 instead of a guy OPSing .790?

17 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:25 pm

As for Hinske at 3B, we really need to kill that meme. He's played all of 130 innings (or 14 whole games) there over the last four years. A spot start is too much. He's passable, maybe, for a few innings here and there.

So they traded for another lefty OF/DH who can't hit more than anyone they already have.


18 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:27 pm

Smoltz looked absolutely dominant in his first inning against Batlimore. The Rays are already up 1-0. This is going to be a very difficult division.

19 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:29 pm

Andy Phillips, foreign player studmuffin, hit his first homer in Japan.

20 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:30 pm

@ 16

Are you trying to enrage me even more?

There's barely a difference. But if anything I'd give the edge to Gardner b/c he can turn a walk into a triple. Yeh, Eric Hinske won't be doing that.

Just idiotic. I really haven't been this infuriated by a non-move since Terrence Long.

21 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:31 pm

[17] We'll see if the meme proves accurate or not. I suspect that we will see him start games at 3B this season...time will tell.

22 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:33 pm

[20] you're enraged because they got an extra bat for nothing? believe me, i don't have any faith in eric hinske. but why would anyone be enraged about it?

23 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:33 pm

[20] You do seem agitated. Have you been drinking from the same water fountain as Mattpat?

24 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:34 pm

[20] not trying to enrage. but at some point you have to admit that you just make numbers up.

25 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:35 pm

[19] woo hoo for Andy!!

26 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:38 pm

[22] Enraged is the new "meh?"

: )

27 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:39 pm

This is going to be a very difficult division.

Even more reason to flush ABs down the toilet!

Nah, but this is a very talented team...for $200 million. Of course, william will be the first in line with a Girardi pitchfork when the season ends badly.

This is not a championship club. Not when they think an upgrade is Hinske for Pena.

28 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:39 pm

Pete Abe is now reporting an 8:05 first pitch.

29 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:39 pm

[19] Must be the fried spiders...

: )

30 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:40 pm

damn, i was all ready for baseball and first pitch got moved back again. :(

8:05pm now.

31 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:42 pm

[23] Man are you a glutton for punishment. In your spare time, do you also bang your head against stone walls? :)

32 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:43 pm

Hinske is an emigma to me. He could be good or just suck.

33 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:43 pm

Andy Phillips homered in his first at-bat as a Yankee, didn't he?

Then again, so did Nick Green. And Bubba Crosby.

34 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:44 pm

[23] I miss Mattpat...

Is he lurking these days, or just MIA?

35 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:45 pm

[31] Worse, this *is* my spare time. Seriously, though, I do find the rhetoric of extreme anger to be very intriguing.

36 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:45 pm

[33] I think so, at The Fens no less...

: )

37 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:48 pm

[34] yeah i wondered too. especially when one of his favorites was in the news with the positive test at the wbc.

let's hope joba is preparing himslef for all the delays approporiately.

38 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:52 pm

[37] Keep him out of the "Food Room," for Christ's sakes!

: )

39 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:53 pm

[33] [36] I found a list recently of players who homer in their first AB with the Yankees (or maybe it was 1st pitch)--it was not the most impressive group.

40 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 7:54 pm

I'll just be happy if this game is played.

41 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:01 pm

[40] I'll be especially happy, though, if the game is delayed long enough for Hinske to join the team!!!!!

42 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:01 pm

A-Rod gets the girl's phone number ....

43 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Can I ask, when is the Bum Rush gonna wear off?
Have you tried Orange juice?
Pena is a .660 OPS guy. Over the last 2 years, Hinske has averaged a .770 OPS+.

And yes, Hinske is either a 85-90 OPS+ guy or a 110-115 OPS+ guy. Hopefully he will like YS RF.

44 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:02 pm

[41] why do you think cashman got it to rain!?!

first pitch coming soon!!

45 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:02 pm

[42] ???

46 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:03 pm

[42] uh arod likes them old

47 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:03 pm


Some high school girls softball team got to join the players on the field for the National Anthem, and each girl stood next to the Yankee at their usual position.

48 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:04 pm

[46] Not according to David Letterman. ;-)

49 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:05 pm


Brian Cashman: worst GM in baseball and evil genius behind global climate change!

; )

50 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:07 pm

ooh ichiro - must be a special night for you mp :}

51 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:08 pm

Okay, that was a really nice moment.

Jorgie moved up a little. Didn't think Mo could throw it all the way to the plate? ;-)

52 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:08 pm

Game on!

53 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:08 pm

[47] oh lol. too bad the joke was lost on me. :(

54 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:09 pm

Man... these Umps are getting worse and worse. Is this there 2nd job?

55 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:10 pm

What is Branyan doing batting .303?

56 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:10 pm

... and how does Branyan only have 38 ribbies having 19 homers?

57 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:10 pm

Russell the Muscle?

58 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:11 pm

we don't need full count joba tonight

59 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:12 pm

I get the feeling Chamberlain is going to drive me nuts tonight.

60 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:12 pm

Dear Joba,
Yours truly,
(speaking for all Banterers)

61 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:12 pm

What is it about Joba and full counts.

62 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:13 pm

Well, Yankee Stadium is in at least one Yankee pitcher's head, that seems obvious now.

63 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:13 pm

[50] What happened? I just turned the radio on?

[56] Normally I would suggest that this results from playing on a team with a woeful offense (no men on base, no RBI). However, we cannot over look:

a. unclutchiness
b. lack of grit
c. poor approach
d. moral degeneracy

64 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:13 pm

Well, that was a good pitch.

65 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:14 pm

[46] I don't know what qualifies as old, but Kate Hudson qualifies as yummy ... and, lord knows, a step above Madonna.

Although, i *do* imagine a scene happening at some point during Alex's slump like the one in Major League:

I pissed off now, Kabbalah. I good to you, I stand up for you. If you no help me now, I say fuck you, Kabbalah. I do it myself.

66 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:15 pm

[63] I think at least a - c are pretty common of a woeful offense, so it's not like these things are exclusive of one another.

67 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:15 pm

When I watch Joba's starts, I feel like my brain is on overdrive. Not only do I monitor his pitch count and velocity, but there is also the tendency to read tea leaves (like Ichiro and Lopez pulling fastballs foul). Joba just had a rather tidy 1-2-3 inning, but I feel exhausted by it. It's very weird.

68 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:15 pm

[63] nothing. in fact he struck out looking. i was just thinking of the ichiro banter from a week or so ago.

69 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:17 pm

[67] But are you enraged?

70 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:18 pm

cue complaints about jeter. hehehe

71 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:19 pm

[48] LOL!

72 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:19 pm

[69] Not at all...there's just something about Joba that makes me over analyze everything he does. Maybe it's the anticipation of his potential dominance, the desire to see him establish himself in the rotation or simply personal fondness. Whatever the reason, I sometimes feel like I am making the start with him.

73 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:19 pm

[69] my gorge is tumescent, does that count?

74 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:19 pm

johnny D!

75 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:19 pm

[68] Ahhh...

As I mentioned on the last thread, Ichiro is really trying to make me look bad this year, what with having one of best seasons and all.

76 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:20 pm

woah that was weird

77 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:21 pm

nice play all around ... well, except for Morrow's throw

78 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:21 pm

[76] The rare time when a feet first slide into 1B is a GOOD play.

79 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:22 pm

[78] yep. I have been very impressed with Tex's baserunning.

80 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:22 pm


81 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:22 pm


82 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:26 pm

Chris and Paulie, running down Kay .... good times, good times!

83 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:27 pm

[67] I feel somewhat similarly, same with when Hughes started.

84 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:28 pm

uh, yeah, *that's* a swing.

85 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:29 pm

No wonder Joba doesn't throw the ball over the plate. That's just brutal.

86 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:30 pm


double buggering blech.

87 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:30 pm

That's a sick throw.

88 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:31 pm

Relax. All is smooth and sweatless.

89 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:31 pm

man, Alex has looked VERY good at 3rd since he had those games off.


90 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:31 pm

That was a nice DP...

91 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:33 pm

I wonder why Girardi is married to Cano in the 5-hole?

92 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:34 pm

[91] so does Kay ... if it's reached *that* point, surely Joey Joe Joe must be next!

93 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:35 pm

[67] When I watch Joba's starts, I look for fastball command, and the bite on his slider. If he lacks the former, he goes to the slider to "get on top of the fastball." If he lacks both, he'll walk the ballpark.

So far, I see decent fastball command and a biting slider.

: )

94 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:36 pm


that sounds dirty . . .

95 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:37 pm

Except for 9th, the lowest OPS slot in the Yankee batting order has been the 5th spot. I think that's part of the reason why this offense has been relatively inefficient. I really think the simple act of moving Cano out of the 5th slot (his weakest batting slot in his career), the lineup would be better.

1st - .881
2nd - .924
3rd - .966
4th - .825
5th - .714
6th - .870
7th - .817
8th - .755
9th - .605 (Includes pitchers)

96 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:38 pm

[94] No, "the two-hole" is the one that sounds dirty, Diane...

: )

97 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:39 pm

Are the Yankees still playing the Mets?

98 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:39 pm

I see the Mets have moved to Seattle.

99 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:39 pm

The Yankees seem to have put an error hex on all their opponents lately.

100 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm

Cano should bat 6th, period. I'm not in love with Posada's bat as some are, but I think he's more threatening than Cano. I bet at this point other teams are happy to see Cano up in a big spot.

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm

"Dr. Strangegloves," I presume?

: )

102 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm
103 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:42 pm

I feel dirty and I realize that in some ways, Ichiro! is less than he seems (although in other ways, he's *more* than he seems) but I often find myself wishing we had signed Ichiro! rather than Matsui.

And I love Matsui. Anyone who APOLOGIZES to his team and fans for breaking his wrist diving for a ball gets a lifetime pass from me (not to mention his awesome sense of humor AND pr0n habit) but Ichiro's FRICKIN' ICHIRO!

Maybe I've just seen too many WBC games, but dammit I LOVE watching him play ... and talk. I mean who couldn't LOVE THIS

104 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:42 pm

[100] Cano does seem more suited for the 6th or 7th slot. They'd never do it, but I'd love to try Swisher and his OBP in the 2-slot and move Damon down to 5th.

105 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:43 pm

[103] He is fun to watch, no doubt.

106 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:43 pm

I guess we'll have to accept two...

107 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:44 pm

[103] Matsui was great before the injuries, but I agree with you..Ichiro would have owned New York..

Joba needs to take a look at Tim Lincecum, complete game with under 100 pitches!

108 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:44 pm

[104] OK, I'll bite--what sorts of batters are suited for #5 v. #6 or #7?

109 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:44 pm

Cano has the ability to hit 5th but seems to struggle in big spots. I would like to see us patiently keep him there for a while in hopes that he breaks through that psychological wall. I know it has risks, but if he can break through that could be huge come pennant time.

110 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:45 pm

[103] I've been very happy with Matsui, even in spite of his recent injury history, but I do agree it would be fun to watch Ichiro on a daily basis. He seems to have so much confidence, and that's reassuring as a fan.

111 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

[104] CRAZY TALK!!!!


Or just move Posada up.


is the way i'd go ...

112 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

[110] Well suited was a poor choice of words...I should have said Cano has performed much better in those slots over his career.

113 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

Am I imagining things or is Joba is quickly developing a reputation for letting shitty little hitters hurt him?

114 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:47 pm

pastadiving ...

115 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:48 pm

Back to my earlier point, giving up a HR to Ronnie Cedeno really worries me. How can a pitcher with Joba's stuff do that? Does that mean that Joba doesn't really have his stuff?

116 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:49 pm

Joba has been consistently good, but I am going to wait to see a line like 8 2 0 0 2 10, a line that signifies DOMINANCE, before I start to believe he still has the insane upside--I'm a skeptic right now.....

117 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:50 pm

When Joba's pitching on the road, I want him in the rotation. When he's pitching at home, I want him in the eighth.

Actually, my Joba to the 'pen jones has been filled by young Phil Hughes. That definitely seemed to make the need less glaring. I wonder if they'll switch at some point, like I ordered them to.

118 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:50 pm

[110] Ichiro!'s a "cat".

Don't know if that makes sense ... but's he's a cat, in a JAZZ sense ... talented, confident, a-little-bit-cocky-but-good-(and)-quirky-enough-you-don't-care ... like OK TOKYO said, he would have OWNED New York.

Seattle's not big enough for him ...

119 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:50 pm

[103] couldn't we have signed both?

[112] i'm not trying to be argumentative here because i'm torn on this, but what if rather than moving cano, cano started hitting as well as he's hit in the 6th or 7th etc spots in the 5th? would you leave him there then? it's hard to figure out what the balance should be between a guy who can drive in a runner from 2nd or even 1st and a guy who will get on base more but not get as many hits.

120 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:51 pm

....the current Joba seems too vulnerable to taking a lot of pitches and sitting fastball.

121 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:51 pm

[109] Every player hitting #5 through #8 in the Yankees' line-up tonight has an .800+ OPS for both the season and his career. So on those grounds, I see little difference in who has the ability to hit 5th. I would tend to bat Posada earlier in the lineup because I think that he's the best of the group, but that's splitting hairs.

The real issue seems to be if Cano does in fact have some sort of psychological thing that prevents him from hitting well in the 5th spot (or is this some weird statistical fluke). If so, then just move him down and make him comfortable.

122 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:51 pm

[116] I disagree. I think he's been anything but consistent. Unless you mean consistently 6 innings and under!

123 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:52 pm

[116] That's what I am waiting for too. Each time Joba starts, I keep anticipating that this will be the start that he really emerges, but instead his outing mostly seem to resemble a quality start. Maybe Joba is just going to be pretty good and not Gallardo, Lincecum and Billingsley. That wouldn't be such a bad thing, but then it does raise the question if he'd be better off in the bullpen.

124 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:53 pm

[115] sometimes yes, sometimes no ...

it really *IS* puzzling.

however, in general, that game in CLE is the only game this year where Joba has been ANYTHING like the Joba that took the mound EVERY night before the game he walked off the mound in Texas.

Young pitchers will break your heart ...

125 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:53 pm

[112] Ah, I see.

126 The Hawk   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:53 pm

[121] Maybe stop looking at those grounds then, and you'll come around to the truth.

127 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:53 pm

Ichiro speaks better English than Yogi :-)

128 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:55 pm

More warning signs...Joba falls behind Lopez and nibbles with the slider. He doesn't seem to have any confidence in the fastball, and quite frankly, I don't believe him. Pitch FX has him around 91-92 quite a bit, which isn't great. What happened to the great fastball?

129 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:56 pm

[127] Anyone whose favorite English phrase is "August in Kansas City is hotter than two rats in a fucking wool sock" is 'teh AWESOME' to me.

130 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:56 pm

[128] Texas?

131 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:57 pm

[118] haha very apt description of ichiro cult.

it's still hard for me to discern if any of joba's "issues" are about his stuff or his approach

132 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:57 pm

[119] The sample is big enough that it really make me think that batting 5th might be a mental thing for Cano. If he is hitting well in the 6th or 7th slot, I'd rather leave well enough alone and use someone else to bat 5th.

133 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Wow @ night-n-day Joba in that frame...

: /

134 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 8:58 pm

128--My one consolation is that the fastball seems routinely to hit 94-95 in the 5th-6th, and that it's a problem with getting completely loose which might go away in time....we'll see if velocity increases tonight.

135 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:01 pm

[94] I want to go out drinking with Diane

136 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:01 pm

[123] To be fair, if you look at Lincecum's game logs from his age 23 season, he didn't have a single "dominating start" (at least if the hypothetical line that you proposed is our working definition of dominant). And he finished the season with a 4.00 ER. Gallardo had one such start his first season (age 20), though he has a a few this year. Billingsley had perhaps one late in his second year (only 7 innings, but no runs and plenty of Ks).

137 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:01 pm

Joba threw just as hard as Morrow in college, but the former is living at 92, while the latter is 94-97. With each passing start, I am getting increasingly concerned that something might be wrong.

138 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:02 pm

[131] I would argue that it's "approach" Ms October, ever since he was told to "hold back" by Burnett...

Perhaps it's fear of re-injury.


139 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:03 pm

[126] And what would the truth be?

140 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:06 pm

[131] I mean hell, he came out (in the 1st WBC) and said (and I paraphrase) Korea-will-NEVER-beat-Japan-in-30-years.

What happened?

Well, Korea beat Japan.

Then they beat them again.

But when it was win or go home (in the semis) he went 3-5 and Japan beat Korea enroute to the championship.

In 2009, when the two teams met again for the crown, it was Ichiro! going 4-6 with the championship winning hit.

That's my best baseball moment EVER. Watching him get that hit at Dodger's Stadium, faced with 30,000 screaming, chanting, thunderstick-banging Korean fans ... he laced a 2 strike single up the middle and won the game.

I'm a total fanboy, dontchaknow???

141 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:06 pm

[136] What hypothetical line did I propose?

142 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:06 pm

[137] what of [134] though? it's not often that a power pitcher throws significantly harder in the later innings, particularly not one known for throwing gas in short relief. i think there's a good possibility it's a mental thing, that he thinks too much about how he has to preserve energy, and then he gets caught up in people complaining about how he can't go deep into games, and it's just a cycle that gets worse and worse. if that's so, i think you have to wonder what the pitching coach and manager tell him, and hope that he'll overcome it and just trust his body enough to let it fly early in the game.

143 Dimelo   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:08 pm

Joba just throws way too many pitches. It's like watching Victor Zambrano: less the 15 walks , 2 hits, and 4 k's per game.

144 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:11 pm

[137] wait, *now*, really?

I'll just say ... go back and look at the starting gamelogs "pre" Texas (take them as a whole) last year and then look at his starting gamelogs this year (again, as a whole) ... he's NOT the same guy.

If it weren't for the CLE game, this would be like the fish-slapping-dance level of ridiculobviousness.

I mean, it's not like he's had public issues with getting warm or anything ...

145 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:11 pm

[141] I forgot to address [116] as well, the post with which you agreed in [123]. In [116], NickL claimed to want to see:

"to see a line like 8 2 0 0 2 10, a line that signifies DOMINANCE"

I assumed that you quick agreement with the post ("That’s what I am waiting for too") meant that this was the sort of line you were waiting for as well.

146 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:11 pm

[142] I am at a loss for Joba's inconsistency from inning to inning and even within innings. Sometimes it almost seems as if his better fastballs wind up getting hit harder, so maybe he is dialing it down for location? I really don't have any answers. I just wish Joba would establish himself as a dominant starter...the kind the blows through lineups like the Nats, Braves, Mets and Mariners.

147 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:12 pm

I think Ichiro is highly intelligent and very self possessed. I think he can turn it on and off. As long as he plays on a crappy team, you will never see him in overdrive. If he were leading off for the Yanks or Sox, I'll bet he could hit .400.

148 Dimelo   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:12 pm

What a difference watching both these 3rd basemen, seriously.

149 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:13 pm

[145] That's not a dominant line...that's a ridiculous line. I was thinking something more like a game score over 60 (off the top of my head).

150 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:14 pm

[146] i think patience is warranted

151 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:15 pm

[149] Ah, ok. I was confused when you wrote "that's what I'm waiting for" in direct response to the post.

152 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:15 pm

William... Joba is trying to learn how to pitch. The fact that he throws harder in the 6th then the 1st tells you he is pacing himself. He's a stud. Give him time and stop overanalyzing every time he farts.

153 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:16 pm

there are several variables involved with joba.
- he had a shoulder injury
- he has moved from starter (ml) to pen to starter
- he is a young pitcher who is still in a place where inconsistency is to be expected
- he *seems* to improve velocity as the game goes on
- he is in love with 1 of his pitches (slider)
- he has had several catchers, managers, and pitching coaches in a few years
- he got advice from burnett :}

i really don't think we can completely pinpoint what is going on with him. he has not been *dominant* but he has been solid

154 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:17 pm

[149] For what it's worth, he has had 4 starts with a gamse score of 60 or higher this season, with a high of 70 (against Detroit on April 29). They have been relatively equally spaced throughout the season, in starts 1, 4, 7, and 10).

155 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:20 pm

[150] It definitely is warranted...it's not like Joba isn't pitching well. Still, there is such a desire to see him be more dominant that when he is just quality, it becomes very disappointing.

[151] I was also referring to dominance, but my own definition, which I didn’t explain.

[152] I understand and accept that, but why does that mean his velocity and movement both seem to be off from previous levels? I admit that I, and most, overanalyze Joba, but some of the questions are legitimate.

156 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:20 pm

[154] MP... you simply MUST stop pointing out all the flaws in Williams posts. Really... it's unacceptable.

157 Dimelo   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:20 pm

I love how Paul O'Neil doesn't even know how many visits are allowed by any one of the bench coaches. I love that guy! He's the anti-pompous Michael Kay.

158 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:22 pm

[153] Very well put, Ms October! I would only add he needs the confidence he had in the pen in '07, too. I'm not seeing that in the least as a starter, unless he makes a diving catch shaking the Earth, and doubles up the runner getting back to 2B, or K's 100 Red Sox in an inning...

: )

159 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:22 pm

[156] How exactly does [154] point out a flaw in my post? I am saying that their aren't any...one of the best things about an intelligent and respectful forum is you can vet your own idea...but [154] doesn't really seem to point them out.

160 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:23 pm

look, I'm a fanboy; what I really want is for Joba and Hughes to be CLEARLY BETTER than Lester and Bucholtz......

ok, time to bust this one open!

161 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:23 pm

[159] Should be "I am NOT saying..."

162 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:24 pm

[160] Then you are setting your sites low.

163 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:24 pm

sigh ... again.

go back and review his gamecasts(starts) from last year, pre-Texas, and *this* year (excluding CLE).

(and I say this because I did review random starts from each year)

they are NOTHING like each other.

to my mind, there are 2 possibilities

1) his shoulder is OK, but he isn't confident in it when throwing the FB, therefore, he's afraid to let the FB rip

2) the shoulder isn't OK, but in such a way that sometimes he can throw as he did prior to TEX, most of the time he can't.

As to which it is, I *DON'T* know, but to sit here and "la-la-la-la-la there's nothing FUNDAMENTALLY different", is just silly.

and now I'm done on this ...

164 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Swisher tries to pull too much in the Stadium, I think.

165 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:25 pm

[160] hey i want joba to be better than pedro '99. and he is frustrating me right now. but i hesitate to say that anything is wrong with him, or that anything should be done to shake things up with him. he hasn't been terrible, he's been above average. so let's give him some time.

166 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:26 pm

Spanky McSkittles!

167 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:26 pm

[158] thank you pj. i had a slight concern that having so much success in the pen might impact how joba handles the ups-and-downs as a starter (not that it is necessarily happening but it may be).

168 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:26 pm

Yankees need to score here...

169 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:27 pm


170 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:27 pm

[163] sometimes you just lose confidence in yourself, for no apparent physical reason. sometimes something interrupts a good streak (like a minor injury) and then you lose it mentally. and then sometime you find it again. there are more than 2 possibilities here.

171 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:28 pm

[168] presumably you mean more than 1 run

172 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:29 pm



173 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:29 pm

[159] Well, you did say that you were looking for signs of Jobadiminance, which you defined as game score > 60. I pointed out that he has had four such games this season, not all from early in the season. Hence, signs of Jobadominance.

I agree with those who complain that he should be more efficient and go deeper into games.


[156] Be careful, OYF, I do not want to be associated with certain posters who target William, seemingly out of some sort of malice. I'm just trying to talk (and debate) some baseball!

174 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:30 pm

[171] I am ashamed to admit that I almost feel content with that dribbler by Melky. Considering all the help the Yankees have gotten from opponent's defenses (or lack thereof), I am not yet convinced the offense is back on track.

175 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:31 pm

blah - not so good

176 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:31 pm

Not such a good night for the captain so far. Grrr...

177 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:32 pm

Bases loaded, no outs, and scoring one run on a "pfft" is unacceptable!

178 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:32 pm

[170] doesn't that fall under 1 ... he doesn't trust the shoulder?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to figure out how someone can have a game like the CLE and then have a game, like, well ... most of the games he's had this year

and, without a doubt, you're right ... there are more than 2 choices ... there's another one that I didn't put down ... 3) there's a mechanical issue that isn't being addressed ... lord knows Joba has a motion that screams out 'future shoulder issues' ... anytime you see him throw from a side angle, it's NOT pretty

179 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:33 pm

WTF was that?

180 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:35 pm

[173] I meant on a consistent basis, not 4 times out of 15 starts. Also, two of those games scores were exactly 60.

Also, rest assured that no malice is inferred. Quite the opposite. I have no problem with someone pointing out legitimate flaws in my logic...I'd be a fool to think there are none.

181 Dimelo   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Wow...good throw by Jorgie.

182 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

safe, but that was the best throw i've seem from cletus in a while ...

183 Dimelo   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

And a much worse throw there.

184 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

that?!?!?!? not so much ...

185 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

Gardy, I hope you're taking notes...

186 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:37 pm

[178] no i'm saying maybe the shoulder injury really was nothing but it interrupted his groove and now he's in a bit of a funk (for him (hopefully)). maybe it has just snowballed like i said in [142].

187 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:37 pm

Why is this is game!!

188 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:37 pm


Always 1 step ahead!!!

189 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:38 pm

What a waste having Ichiro on Seattle. For International relations sake, Ichiro should be traded to the Yankees.

190 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:39 pm

I'd like to whine about how if Joba fields that ground ball, a run doesn't score, but if the Mariners could catch the ball, the Yankees might not have any runs either.

191 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:39 pm

[189] if only the us and japan could patch up their devastating feud of the last half century!

192 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:39 pm

[186] again, i'm not being argumentative, but have you looked at the gamelogs from the games last year?

they're STARTLINGLY different from *almost* EVERY game this year.

When a pitcher has had a shoulder problem in between, "WHY?" seems a very ominous question to my mind ...

193 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:40 pm

Look, I recognize patience is needed.....yet, once again, here we have Joba against a weak offense and we're now hoping for 6 IP 2ER as a best-case scenario. Has he looked dominant once this year? I don't think so.

194 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:41 pm

Was away..Ichiro stole 2nd and 3rd? But Jorge had a good throw to 2nd??

195 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:41 pm

[193] dude, CLE.

it ain't *much* (see EVERYTHING i've posted in this thread), but it's *ONCE*.

196 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:41 pm

It seems like every 2-2 count is a breaking ball in the dirt.

197 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:42 pm

[192] i'm well aware of the difference, statistically and aesthetically. and i'm not trying to be argumentative either- i agree that it's extraordinarily frustrating. i'm just saying that there's no way to know for sure what it is, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the shoulder. of course it might. but we have no idea.

198 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:42 pm

A 3-2 breaking ball to Griffey? Really?

199 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:43 pm

ugh let's not fritter this away because of a soft comebacker to the mound, some stolen bases, and a walk to the still hefty kg jr

200 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:43 pm

It's almost have if Joba doesn't throw a fastball?

Show/Hide Comments 201-300
201 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:43 pm

[195] he was pretty good in that boston game except for the 3 run hr in the 1st

202 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:44 pm

Cleveland, OK, but only 5 Ks in 8 innings. I'm talking about signs of dominance. There were a few innings against the Sox, iirc..........

203 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:45 pm

for chrissakes

204 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:45 pm

oh boy you gotta catch that melky

205 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:45 pm

i’m just saying that there’s no way to know for sure what it is, and it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the shoulder.

But, well, we *can* say that.

We don't know why, but because Joba 1.0 (pre-TEX) is completely different from Joba 2.0 (2009 version), we *can* say that night (and thus the shoulder issue that happened then) is the issue.

We don't know why ... physical, mental, mechanical ... but we *do* know something *isn't* the same before-and-after.

206 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:45 pm

I am really at a loss...a complete loss.

207 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:46 pm

I'm listening on the radio, so I can't use my own eyes, but it sounds like there have been a disturbing number of "fly ball" singles by the M's.

208 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:47 pm

[207] if you start with the premise that even 1 is disturbing - this has been very disturbing

209 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:47 pm

207--I feel the same way, but realistically, nothing S & W say counts as evidence......

210 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:47 pm

[202] not even Nolan Ryan struck out 2 guys EVERY inning, even the games where he dominated ...

The Joba of the night of CLE had the stuff to dominant any and EVERY lineup he would ever face.

In that sense, he's like the Joba that took the mound every night until he walked off the mound in Texas ...

211 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:48 pm

[207] The balls haven't been scorched, but it's the nibbling that is killing him. He is throwing a 90 mph fastball and an 84 mph slider, and seems loathe to put either over the plate. I don't care that the results will once again be mediocre, but I am concerned about how mediocre his stuff has been.

212 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:48 pm

Woulda been nice to score more than one last inning...

213 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm


Comment of the Night nominee.

214 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:49 pm

[212] Yep, but sadly this offense has not been very productive since that Fenway sweep.

215 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:50 pm

I'm 100% with you re. the shoulder, Cult. This was a guy who could throw 95 mph fastballs effortlessly with some command--that's the best pitch in baseball--now he's become a guy with a league average fastball and a slider he can't get guys to swing at often enough.....

216 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:50 pm

How many games has Joba pitched with a big lead?

217 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:50 pm

I am not excited about this effort tonight...

218 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:50 pm

I would like to see Girardi push Joba today and try to get him through the 6th. Even if he is inefficient he should still be able to get through the game under 110 pitches.

219 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:51 pm

Especially considering the relative lineups, Morrow has looked so much better than Joba.

220 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:52 pm

[205] but, again, it might have STARTED that night yet have nothing to do with it. i'm just throwing that out as a possibility.

221 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:53 pm

[218] The Yankees need this win game...I wouldn't put any extra effort into getting Joba through the 6th.

222 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:53 pm

Thanks for not running on Ichiro, Tex...

223 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:53 pm

[220] We need to get Steve Lombardi on the trail.

224 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:54 pm

[215] ok ... thank you ... it sometimes seems like I'm talking past people here ... it's a toss-up between Joba and Nick Johnson between my favorite Yankees prospects *ever* ... and I'm resigned (at-this-point) to the reality that Joba will *never* be the pitcher that he promised in 2007, which frankly, is the best yankees pitching prospect since 'the gator'.

like i said earlier ... young pitchers will break your heart ...

225 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:55 pm

[221] I don't see it as extra effort. He's given up some soft stuff and a HR. I think this is a case of over-managing if Girardi doesn't let him start the 6th. Short leash, of course.

226 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:55 pm

Cano needs to get a big hit!

227 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:56 pm

personally i think joba's bigger problem this year is his control, which is nonexistent. also, we seem to be focusing on the texas game, but there was also an entire offseason (not counting his 2nd bullpen stint, which was quite dominant) between his dominant streak as a starter and now. perhaps there's more to it than the texas game.

228 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:56 pm

why does Cano make my eyes twitch like Herbert Lum right now???

229 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:56 pm

It's 5-hole-in-the-head Cano. What will happen?

230 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:57 pm

[224] Buck up--even the Gator broke hearts. Check out his MiL peripherals and early starts, until he finally put it together in MLB...at age 26.

231 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:57 pm

224--yeah, if you're a Yankee fan who cares about young pitchers, it's been a pretty tough [starts to count years.....gives up]

232 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:57 pm

This swings by Cano are awful...why doesn't he hit line drives anymore?

233 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:58 pm

You can tell there is something amiss in Yankees Universe when Freddy breaks out the skillet in the "fift"...

234 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:59 pm

What a surprise.

235 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:59 pm

You could see that coming. Cano has been killing this lineup. At some point Girardi has to realize it.

236 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 9:59 pm

damnit cano - you are really working some nerves man

237 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:00 pm

I would bat Swish 5th and Po 6th.

238 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:00 pm

[235] i think we'll see some lineup shuffling very soon

239 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:01 pm

[238] I hope so...but it has been three weeks of this. It shouldn't have taken so long.

240 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:01 pm


I had a fondness for the prospect that was Jay Buhner.

Ken f****** Phelps.

Sigh :-(

241 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:01 pm

I'm reminded of that strike zone diagram NoMaas posted...last year, was it? With the MLB strike zone, and the Robinson Cano strike zone (which was from the ground to the top of his head).

242 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:01 pm

hi everyone.

the phillies have 3 errors in the game. they just made a nice play in the 9th inning and asshole chip caray shoots a load, screaming how the the phillies are making some unbelievable plays in this game, giving a major league effort! um, all their errors led to runs, jackass. and i would hope they'd give a major league effort, it being the major leagues and all...

and, btw, this game is a bit infuriating. swisher w/ the bases clogged. joba nibbling....

yeah, where the hell is MattPat?!

243 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:01 pm

[231] Seriously. Not counted Wang, the last was who? Pettitte? And before that Righetti (and he was drafted by Texas), before Martin switched him to RP.

244 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:02 pm

[241] nomaas = funny! i miss FJM...

you get that expected hail? hope your car is okay! : )

245 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:03 pm

here comes groundzilla. great...

ground ball to 2nd, inning over. no runs. we know how it's gonna end...

so, joba for the 6th or no?

246 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:04 pm

It's like this fucking game has been scripted to frustrate us.....quick! pool on how Hideki will make an out!

247 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:04 pm

wow, this guy's gameday picture is as odd as his surname!

248 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:05 pm

[230] mp, i love you, but you're not seeing what i'm saying.

it's not that I have a problem with Joba struggling ... he wasn't the 2nd coming of Walter Johnson pre-Texas *last year*, but he did exhibit the tools that he had when he came up in 2007.

this year???


if you wanna argue that "gator's" issue was that he lost 5+% (and think what that *means* for someone who could hit 95 *after*) on his FB between the minors (let alone his first STARTING stint as a ML player)and MLB, then when I'll admit that we're all the sadder for never having seen the Guidry that pissed fire and shot lightning bolts from his arse, as it were ...

249 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:05 pm

[242] Knowing Mattpat, he broke his television during the last Red Sox series...

Can't blame him really!

: )

250 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:05 pm

[246] easy. see the post before yours! do i win something from Bose?! ; )

251 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:05 pm

Not only should this have been an overwhelmingly favorable matchup going in, but that Mariners have played like crap. It's not only frustrating, but incredibly worrisome that this is a 3-3 game. The Yankees have not played well against so very poor competition. What's going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?

252 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:06 pm

[243] Check that. It looks like Yogi switched him to closer. The memory fails...

253 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:06 pm

I loved Righetti, was sad when they switched him...

254 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:07 pm

[250] maybe you should make a deal with bruney thelarmis!

255 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:08 pm

[251] "What’s going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?"

Posada and Molina get hurt again, out four to six weeks?


256 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:08 pm


257 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:08 pm

for fucks sake this is movie is on tv too much

258 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

he switched it up and grounded to 1st. damnit, i win nothing... : /

259 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

[244] There was a lot of lightning and thunder, but I didn't hear any hail.

ARRRRGHHHH. Lotta ducks on the pond, but we can't seem to get them home.

260 tommyl   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

Man does Hideki look finished, yuck.

261 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

Matsui grounds out weakly to 2nd? Who would have thunk it.

262 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

[248] I love you too, man. I also get what you're saying.

I'm just telling you to cheer up. Few young pitchers hit the ground running, with no hiccups, no set backs, no injuries. Even the mighty Gator was a slow starter who, if you look at his MiL numbers, was very wild. I'm not saying he was injured...only that young pitchers will frustrate.

263 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:09 pm

This kind of game has been a hallmark of this team.

264 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:10 pm

I'd much rather see Aceves on the mound. Joba's stuff has tailed off so much that I don't trust him in this spot.

265 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:11 pm

[251] <b<What’s going to happen when the better teams show up on the schedule?

The Yankees will lose, presumably.

266 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:11 pm

[262] right! and *i'm* not saying he wasn't frustrating ... only that he wasn't so radically different, before-and-after an injury


267 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:12 pm

251--to be honest? I think we have 3rd place AL East talent--Pettite and Wang sucking up mediocre starts are probably going to doom us. Tampa and Boston look like the two best teams in baseball.

But we could be among the best 3rd place teams in AL East history....

268 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:12 pm

According to YES, the Yankees are 14-67 in their 5-game winning streak. That pretty much means the reason the Yankees have won is because the competition has been pretty bad. So, yes, [265] is probably what will happen.

269 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:13 pm

I'm afraid there is only one word to describe tonight's performance.

270 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:14 pm

261--does it begin with "horse"?

271 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:14 pm

That AB says it all for Joba...he gets ahead of a very bad hitter 0-2 and then winds up throwing a breaking ball on 3-2. Joba had nothing by the end of this game and shouldn't been allowed to put the go ahead run on base, especially because we know have to hope Cokey can get Ichiro.

272 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:15 pm

[269] Or does it end with "able"?

273 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:15 pm

[270] probably un-

274 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:16 pm

[267] I don't think they have 3rd place talent, but I agree they are a 3rd place team if the current regime is maintained.

275 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:16 pm

Hughes not available? Why not bring in your best pitcher in the pen to face Ichiro??

276 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:17 pm

Cokey seems like the kind of pitcher that Ichiro eats alive.

277 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:17 pm

[273] un ...

conceiv ...

[272] able!

oh, wait ... nevermind ...

278 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:17 pm

Please give me Aceves or Hughes. Please.

279 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:18 pm

[271] Hope is a virtue!

280 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:19 pm

nice job edpcy

281 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:19 pm


282 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:20 pm

he's more than joey joe joe might make of him, but "Cokey" has been fantastic recently ...

283 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:20 pm








A little help?

: )

284 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:20 pm

OK, we'll see if that Coke energizes the team....

285 randym77   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:21 pm

[275] Hughes is warming in the pen. Maybe he's the 7th inning guy or something.

286 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:21 pm

TB with a nice easy 4-1 in versus Toronto.

287 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:23 pm

this game is excruciating.

[286] and boston just reached double digits in runs...


288 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:24 pm

You almost get the feeling that if someone doesn't hit a HR, this game will end as a Loss.

With Joba failing to get through 6 again, I am sure the drum beat to return him to the pen will sound louder. I'd almost like to give Joba 15-days off to see if maybe he needs a rest. His starts are not helping this team.

289 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:26 pm

I would argue that the collective IQ on this team sunk to double digits when Moose retired...

290 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:27 pm

[288] according to what petey just posted the yanks are 9-5 in his games. not stellar - but not not helping the team. yes the pen has to work harder in his games, but he is not leaving games with a total mess going.
i would like them to take advantage of an off-day every now an then to give him and maybe others extra rest.

291 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:27 pm

[288] mmmm, loud drum beats. me likey! : )

292 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:27 pm

William, if we had either Joba or Hughes pitching well right now, I might feel differently--it's finely balanced. But picture the rotation in a seven-game series--would you take ours over either Boston or TB right now? I wouldn't. Bullpen? Over Tampa, only. Offense? Over Boston, only.
Just my opinion; obviously things are finely balanced. And I'm assuming that Ortiz will OPS around 900 the rest of the year.....

293 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:28 pm

Lopez jogging down the line was a help.

294 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:28 pm

OMG, you guys see the Muts' defensive "highlights" from tonight's game?! ugh.

295 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:29 pm

[288] didn't we used to have an idea that it was better to bring up our young pitchers and let them settle in in the majors than to sign aging free agent pitchers who wouldn't actually pitch any better? you are expecting too much of joba too soon. how many pitchers, even future aces, began their careers as aces?

296 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:29 pm

Hughes had better throw two innings, or even three if the Yankees score a few runs. Meanwhile, Sterling and Waldman seem to have ordained Hughes the new Joba--by that I mean that we get to hear endless arguments over why he should not move into the rotation ASAP.

297 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:29 pm

[289] i was just about to type that i miss Mikey Moose. and i do...

298 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:29 pm

[253] i did too ... i'll never *quite* forgive my parents for refusing to go to the 7/4 no-hitter i argued we should go to (with nothing else going on), but you *GOTTA* love that moment in Toronto where he turned and threw the ball over the CF wall (during the year where he set the saves-per-year record, no less).

299 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:31 pm

[290] The pen has worked very hard in his games. Also, one of those wins was the Castillo dropped ball. Even though 8-6 isn't awful, it isn't very good either. I think Joba CAN be better, so I am tired for settling for what he has been doing.

[292] If C.C. and AJ are throwing well, I'd take my chances. I really believe that if this team was better managed, it would emerge as the best in the division.

300 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:32 pm

[290] I see no rational way to define his starts as "not helping the team". Yeah, he should pitch deeper, but his starts, while frustrating to watch, have generally been positive.

Show/Hide Comments 301-400
301 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:32 pm

well, i guess one sorta positive is we just had three of our young kids - joba, coke, hughes - throw 7 innings of 3-run ball. if our offense did what it should have w/ the bases loaded twice, we'd all be VERY happy with these kids. although Joba's in-game WHIP, is pretty brutal...

302 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:33 pm

[295] I am not advocating trading Joba for Cliff Lee. Instead, I'd like to see him put on the shelf until after the ASB. Not only have his results against very weak competition been mediocre, but his stuff has been alarmingly pedestrian. Considering he is on an innings limit anyway, I think it makes sense to give Joba a blow and see if he can return with more strength and focus.

303 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:34 pm

[300] i agree mp - the double negative probably made that unclear

304 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:35 pm

[297] I wager he retired to create an algorithm to preserve his portfolio...

Now that's work!

: )

305 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:35 pm

[302] maybe. but i don't think there's any evidence that he needs a rest. he didn't start out hot and get worse, he's been inconsistent. he doesn't start each game well and then tire, he seems to do the opposite. isn't it also possible that he needs more regular work as a major league starter?

306 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:35 pm

Must score Damon.

307 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:36 pm

[296] The irony is that if Joba was pitching well, there wouldn't be a need for Hughes to be a bullpen guy. The only thing creating the belief that the Yankees need a strong bullpen are starts like Joba's tonight.

308 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:36 pm

alright jd - let's do somethig with this inning guys

309 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:36 pm

we BEST find a way to plate johnny.

310 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:37 pm

yeah, we used to dream about Joba and Hughes going back-to-back days. now, it's innings...

311 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:37 pm

damn ripped it foul

312 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:37 pm

Bruney up. I would let Hughes pitch two innings.

313 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:37 pm

Not scoring Damon here would be unacceptable!

314 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:38 pm

Pick him up, Al.

315 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:38 pm

[305] The evidence I see is his stuff. It just doesn't look that good. He is going to need time off eventually, so why not now.

316 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:38 pm

[312] but the next inning will be the 8th inning

alright alex

317 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:38 pm

damn Tex, what happened to your bad self?!

318 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:38 pm

[312] I agree. Let Phil go 2 for chrissakes.

319 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:39 pm

[306] i'm getting a flashback to a moment in HS on varsity baseball, we had the winning run on second and Jimmy Russo coming to the plate ...

Jimmy Russo handed me his crucifix as he stepped to the plate

And I said ... "get a hit ... or Jesus gets it."

He did, dontchaknow???

320 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:39 pm

How about an oppo gapper durble, Alex?

321 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:39 pm

[313] we might be looking at "denial" then, pretty soon... : /

322 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:39 pm

Why can't this team him with men in scoring position. When you think about how they have scored in this game, it's pretty scary.

323 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:39 pm

[316] I know. I believe in plasticity.

324 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:40 pm

That pitch was right over the plate!!!

325 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:41 pm

alex, alex, alex ...

326 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:41 pm

thelarmis check out johjima's catcher's mit - remind you of anything?

327 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:41 pm


328 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:41 pm

I'll take it

329 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:41 pm

1 for 11. : O

330 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

I'll take that too!

: )

331 tommyl   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

Holy wow

332 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm


333 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm


334 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

Thank you Arod....like it or not, this team's method of success has become almost singular: if Arod gets a big hit, they win. If he doesn't, they lose.

335 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm


336 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

alex in the clutch!!

337 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

[322] Perhaps they are trying to impersonate the Rays, who scored only four run tonight despite putting 16 men on base. The Rays had to use a couple of HRs to get the runs, too.

Meanwhile, A-Rod drove in a runner in scoring position.

338 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:42 pm

[334] They are overly reliant on him.

339 tommyl   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:43 pm

That swing was insane. That ball was almost at his shoulder.

340 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:43 pm

Thank you, Alex!!! that's what he's supposed to do!!!

[326] unfortunately, i'm watching Red Sox Tonight, um, i mean Baseball Tonight. i don't get YES, or anything. is kenji's glove all red?

341 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:43 pm


342 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:43 pm

bases empty. robbie will get a hit...

343 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:44 pm

Bruney will come in, b/c you have to try and find a reliever who doesn't have it on any given night--it's an unwritten rule of bullpen management. Personally, I'd rather have my entire pen (except closer) expecting to pitch 2 innings per outing, but--

344 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:44 pm

well ...

this ...

i was all ready to write that "the problem with arod was that he wasn't willing to rape-your-grandmother-while-punching-your-sister-in-the-face" but daaaaaaaaaaammmmmnnnnnn!"

345 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:44 pm

[312][316] I would let him finish the damned game if at all possible.

346 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:44 pm

[30] yeah - brrighter than the straw glove, but all red

347 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:44 pm

So Robbie is capable of elevating a ball???

348 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:45 pm

[315] i guess we just don't agree. i hope that the yankees are keeping track of his health, and i hope that he's being honest with them. but the stuff you talk about is the same stuff he's had all year. it's inconsistent and his control is off, but he shows flashes of the old stuff. maybe he could use rest. maybe they should move to a 6 man rotation. but your real problem is that he hasn't been good enough. he's been better than hughes was as a starter, but i'd bet you'd have a lot more patience with hughes. and that makes sense, because joba has more potential. but joba does have more potential! and he hasn't been awful. i think he, like any good young player, deserves patience when he hasn't been great for a half season.

349 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:45 pm

Hmmm..the Red Sox with now an increasingly un-easy game against the O's. Unacceptable...for the Sox that is.

350 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:45 pm

Kay, it's about discipline. If the doctor says Alex needs rest, you do it. End of story.

351 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:46 pm

[337] Not sure why the Rays inability to hit with runners on base would have anything to do with the Yankees problems, but yes, it is nice to see Alex break through.

352 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:46 pm

holy crap, i just saw the highlight of the A-Bomb. he crushed that fucking ball! didn't look shoulder high. i couldn't see the glove, ms. october. ya know, it's weird - i HATE the color red (no really, i do), but i love that glove!

did robbie's shot almost clear the wall?

353 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:46 pm

YSIII seems to be playing pretty big of late.

354 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:47 pm

damnit guitterez - don't race all those balls down

355 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:47 pm

so, does joba come back to pitch the 8th? ; )

356 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:47 pm

[352] Not really, but it was well hit. Po's was deeper.

357 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:48 pm

[355] /Francesa ;)

358 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:48 pm

[350] mk doesn't seem to be the bastion of discipline

[352] i don't like red that much myself - but i loved that that glove was red and it was just an awesome glove

359 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:49 pm

[348] Actually, while Joba's stuff has been off from what he showed last year, I think his last 3-4 outings have exhibited an even greater drop off. Had those starts been against better lineups, I fear the results would have been pretty drastic. That's just a hunch of mine. I'd prefer to error on the side of caution and skip him for two starts.

360 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:49 pm

stacheless bruney - let's hope no stache =throws strikes

361 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:50 pm

Bruney in this spot is stupid...plain and simple. Hughes needs to pitch. The Yankees need to win. Having Bruney pitch doesn't satisfy either of those ends.

362 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:50 pm

[348] but i’d bet you’d have a lot more patience with hughes. and that makes sense, because joba has more potential.

I'm not convinced that Joba has more potential. He has had more success early, that is for sure. But Hughes, who has battled injuries, is still younger than Joba. There are reasons why he was one the most highly touted prospects in all of baseball.

I think both have suffered from unrealistic expectations. Hughes managed to lower those expectations by scuffling. Joba now must live up to the even more ramped up expectations created largely by his first 24 INN of ubersuccess as a reliever.

363 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:50 pm

Jeez, Girardi is way too formulaic.

364 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:51 pm

I always thought that Hughes would be better than Joba because of his command and the late life on his FB.

365 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:51 pm

I have more or less defended Girardi. Not leaving in Hughes is deeply, deeply wrong. Not only is Hughes the better pitcher right now, he NEEDS INNINGS.

366 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm

bruney. 4 pitches, leadoff man on. NO walk? syntax error. does not compute!!!

367 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm

I hate, hate, hate that Phil is not in here. I hate, hate, hate modern bullpen management.

368 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm

this is frustrating

369 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:52 pm

Hughes had thrown 9 pitches!

370 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

[364] I still think that he will be, when it's all said and done.

371 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

[359] it's not the worst idea in the world, i just don't think there's any need for it, and it might make things worse if he wants to be pitching.

meanwhile, girardi is indeed an idiot.

372 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

[361] yeah, i don't understand why Phil hasn't been going 2 innings at a time. that should be the m.o. with him...

373 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

I agree. Hughes should still be in. HORSECAINANDABLE!

374 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

Take him out, NOW!

375 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:53 pm

Oh shit!

376 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

I am sorry, but this inning says it all about Girardi. Bringing in Bruney to fail in the 8th for the third straight time makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. This is exactly what I mean when I say the Yankees are being held back by their manager. It is so frustrating to watch this team not only battle the opposition, but their manager.

How anyone could support Girardi as manager is beyond me.

377 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

William, would you say that if they get 3 here, this is a Girardi loss? Cause I sure as hell would.....

378 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

At least Hughes will be fresh for his 1 inning on Thurs. Effin' Bollocks!! Put me on the screw you Girardi train.

379 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

now the word horseshit is extremely applicable

380 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

Why the fuck not let Hughes start the 8th and have Bruney standing by? Now we're screwed. Mo can't so 6 or even 5. This sucks.

381 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:54 pm

What the fuck is Girardi waiting for?

382 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:55 pm

[369] yeah, this is insane. girardi needs to be shelled for this. i'm pissed.

this is all on GI Joe...

383 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:55 pm

great an intentional walk

384 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm

Bruney has to come out, right? Aceves with the bases loaded? Or Mo for 5 outs?

385 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm

[379] Yes, which is very much unacceptable.

386 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm

It doesn't get higher leverage then this. BRING IN MO!

387 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm


388 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:56 pm

[377] I don't think there is any question. It's amazing how Girardi finds away to have a negative impact in every game this team plays. At what point do the Yankees wakeup and realize that their manager is hurting the team. The way he has managed this game is absolutely inexcusable. It screams incompetence. Bruney with the bases loaded and Branyan is a disaster waiting to happen.

389 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:57 pm

And Mo sits fiddling in the BP while Rome burns.

390 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:57 pm

this doesn't look good. we need strikeouts. c'mon bruney!!!

391 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:57 pm

[386] Seconded.

392 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:57 pm

[362] [364] i disagree. i hope they can both be good, but in their professional careers joba has been better, and has looked better. joba is 9 months older than hughes. does 9 months make you add that much to phil?

393 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:57 pm

c'mon bruney you asshole

394 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm

Bruney has absolutely nothing.

395 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm

It's amazing, really. The organization created special rules to protect Joba from Torre. Then the organization endured all the heat and criticism, stuck with their plan, and converted Joba to a starter along the lines of the Santana-plan.

But now Hughes is absolutely banished to the BP, to used as the...7th inning guy?


396 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm

It's like a broken keeping the same time - I just knew I show up to bitching about Girardi.

Boo fucking hoo. His eighth inning guy isn't what he's supposed to be. Fire the manager!

397 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm

ooh, i didn't know bases were juiced, then my laptop froze. we need a DP!!!

398 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:58 pm

Arod gave the Yankees a win and now Girardi is serving up a loss. For all those who think the manager can't have as great an impact as a player, this is Exhibit A!

399 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 10:59 pm

So funny! Keep it up.


400 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:00 pm

[398] this is exhibit a because it's the most obvious of all so far. not to quibble with you though, i'm sick of girardi myself. i still don't know who the replacement should be though.

[396] blah blah blah

Show/Hide Comments 401-500
401 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:01 pm

[394] That's the thing...not only was it a horrible move to begin with, but he still left him in even after he performed so poorly. This sequence is the definition of managerial incompetence. I simply do not understand why Cashman and Hal sit back and watch Girardi mismanage this team.

402 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:01 pm

[392] Joba has been better, and if he consistently threw like he did against Boston last July 25th, I would have been (or will be) wrong. My opinion is/was based on command, makeup, and as I said, the late life on Hughes's FB.

Jeez, Girardi sucks.

403 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:01 pm

So Bum, you would have taken Phil out, after his 9 pitch dominant 7th... to bring in just-off-the-DL-and-hasn't-pitched-well Bruney? The problem isn't Bruney. It's that Bruney should not have been in the game. And that's on Joe.

404 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:02 pm

Girardi teh suck.


405 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:02 pm

[400] I would do cartwheels for Showalter on an interim basis. Then, I would conduct an extensive interview process and not make a hire until I was blown away by the candidate.

406 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:02 pm

Hughes threw NINE pitches... NO fucking reason to take him out. none...

girardi is a jerkoff...

407 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:02 pm

[403] Don't feed the troll, please.

408 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:03 pm

Kay is speaking the truth.

409 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:03 pm

[396] what, in your own words, made you check to see if people were complaining about girardi?

410 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm

[409] That's the definition of a troll.

411 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm

Mat doubles. Gardner will PR.

412 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm

@ 403

He's obviously seeing what he has in Bruney. I would have liked to have seen Hughes, sure. But what happens when he finds himself back in the rotation? They still have the same crappy pen. So Girardi has to develop the pen.

Exactly as he did in 2008. It's not his fault he was made a shit sandwich and asked to cook prime rib.

413 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm

yeah a line drive from matsui!

414 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:04 pm

PR Gardy now please...

415 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:05 pm


416 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:05 pm

[408] But, I doubt anyone will press him hard. For some reason, that treatment is reserved for the manager of the Mets.

417 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:05 pm

nice bunt swish - and clumsy pitcher

418 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:05 pm

pinch runner. gardner. steal 3rd. plate him. Mo for the 9th. win the fucking game (in spite of the idiot manager).

419 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:05 pm

[392] The nine months means something. Joba has had more success sooner, but he also was drafted out of college as a somewhat more finished product. He appeared in MLB as a flame throwing reliever and his transition back to starter has been very protected. We forget that Hughes was having a nice little season as starter when he was 21. He has been done in largely by injuries.

I still predict that when it's all done, Hughes will have the better career as a starter.

420 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

The Melk Man Delivers.

421 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

too many comments to back and read..why is Hughes out?? A-Rod is back, baby!!

422 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

wow, that worked...

423 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

there we go!

424 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

leche - the yanks really came out nice this inning

425 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

Huge hit by the Melkman.

426 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:06 pm

@ 409

Because there was a tough spot. Of course it would be Girardi's fault even though his pen blows donkey nuts. Instead, let's Proctorize Hughes!

427 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:07 pm


more. i want both of those runners to score. hear me? BOTH!!!

428 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:07 pm

Sean White?? More like Gabe White!!!


429 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:08 pm

[426] he threw NINE pitches, dude!!!

c'mon Cap!!!

430 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:08 pm

[427] Scream louder just in case they aren't listening!!

431 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:09 pm

nice hit cap 2 runs in!

432 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:09 pm

For some reason, that treatment is reserved for the manager of the Mets.


Maybe because one team is about to hit their high water mark on the season while the other is below .500?

Really, brilliant analysis.

433 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:09 pm

I would like to think that the team is Girardi-proof.

434 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:09 pm

How about Bruney for the 9th? Might be fun to see the Yankees bat in the 9th too.

435 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:10 pm

[430] top 'o my lungs, buddy!!! : )

436 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:10 pm

426--Proctorize Hughes by having him pitch more than 9 pitches in a game?
Really, Bum Rush, if you are going to invoke Proctor, you're not looking at the situation: that's textbook trolling....I mean, that's "there's a big hairy mofo under a bridge next to your name in the dictionary" trolling....

437 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:10 pm

Yay @ lead... again?


438 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:10 pm

meanwhile: teh Captain!

439 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:10 pm

keep tacking 'em on guys, let's keep Mo outta this one...

440 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:11 pm

[434] nah - mo won't be able to bat this game

441 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:11 pm

Fire Girardi!


442 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:11 pm

[436] one of the great Gandalf lines. "You Shall Not PAAAAAASSSS!!!! : )

443 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:11 pm

[439] Yeah! He already "pitched" in this one!

: )

444 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

i like this Sean White fella. good kid! ; )

445 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

I love the reactivity of the Matsuis.

446 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

wow jetes!

447 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

jeter got a bit lucky there

448 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

[433] Games like this make me wonder how good this team could be if they didn't have to overcome their manager's complete inability to run the game.

449 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

[426] "Proctorize Hughes"

That's um....misremembering how Torre (mis)used Proctor. To proctorize Hughes would be to have him more or less lead the league in appearances, using him again and again regardless of game situations, until his arm falls off. Sort of like what Torre is doing to Belisario this year.

However, to judiciously use him ever few days for multiple innings would maximize his value as a reliever and help build up his innings so he can transition back to the rotation.

There is now just about no way to justify burning Hughes tonight for nine pitches.

450 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

[441] you ok? did you eat the red rope licorice?

451 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:12 pm

PeteAbe ain't the greatest strategist, but better then the bum:
UPDATE, 10:41 p.m.: Hey, it’s a hit with RISP. Better yet, it’s a two-run bomb by A-Rod. Yankees lead 5-3.

I’d leave Hughes in, but they won’t.

UPDATE, 10:46 p.m.: That’s 13 RBI in eight games for Alex. Pretty amazing that he has 39 RBI already.

Bruney in. I’m saying in advance I don’t like this. Hughes was lights out, leave him in.

UPDATE, 10:53 p.m.: Like I said.

UPDATE, 10:56 p.m.: Here is what I don’t get: If you’re going to pitch Hughes in relief, then pitch him in relief. Let him pitch two innings, it builds up his innings and serves the purpose of winning games. Everybody wins.

He threw nine pitches in the seventh. Leave. Him. In.

452 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:13 pm

Tex gonna blow #501 for Mo here?

453 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:13 pm

[419] didn't joba only start pitching when he was like 17 or something? where does that factor into the age difference? and joba was pretty good in college. i just don't see how hughes is on a better projection than joba. i don't forget anything about either of them, i just think joba was always better and always seemed to have more potential.

[402] phil does have slightly better control, but i don't really know what you mean about late life on his fastball. he throws a pretty good cutter, but i don't think his fastball is better than joba's (except maybe when he's in the bullpen and joba's a starter). and joba definitely has a better 2nd pitch than phil, and probably a better 3rd and 4th. though, as i say, i do like phil's cutter. i'm also not sure about makeup. what evidence is there that his makeup is better? he hasn't gotten a dui yet?

454 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:13 pm

Jeez... what a play at SS!

455 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:14 pm

@ 436

And if you're going to assume Hughes is always available to pitch two innings, I'm going to point to two guys in their rotation who are iffy every time out. One of whom throws tomorrow.

456 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:14 pm

i like this Sean White fella. good kid! ; )

was that good baserunning by the captain?

457 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:14 pm

[448] I think Whitey Herzog once said that a manager can win or loss five games a year. So at this point in the season, maybe a good manager would yield two more wins, which is not unimportant.

458 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:15 pm

alright mo time

459 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:15 pm

@ 451

Let's see that PeteAbe push the manager on the question. Too bad he talks a big game on his blog then he's chicken shit in the clubhouse.

460 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:16 pm

[453] didn’t joba only start pitching when he was like 17 or something? where does that factor into the age difference?

I'm not sure why it would matter when they started. What matters for any projection would be where they are at a given age, no?

Joba is "ahead" of Hughes now, but Hughes was ahead of Joba a couple of years ago. Time will tell if Joba really has more potential, or if Hughes will overcome his early injuries and "catch up".

461 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:16 pm

[455] nobody assumed that. the kid threw NINE pitches. at the very least, let him start the 8th...

462 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:17 pm

[459] would be nice if the mediots questioned him hard about that. i mentioned that earlier.

463 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:18 pm

Two appearances for Mo in one game? Very iffy!

464 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:18 pm

I don’t think there is any question. It’s amazing how Girardi finds away to have a negative impact in every game this team plays. At what point do the Yankees wakeup and realize that their manager is hurting the team. The way he has managed this game is absolutely inexcusable. It screams incompetence. Bruney with the bases loaded and Branyan is a disaster waiting to happen.


Yup, it was a disaster all right.

How many times does a guy have to be wrong before he learns to STFU. It's like Bill Kristol. Invade Iran!


465 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:18 pm

455--Hughes and Aceves should each be able to go 2, even into a 3rd if they're under 20 pitches after 2. They have starter type stuff. Let your wilder, two-pitch guys go a single inning (Robertson, Bruney).

466 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Papelbon brought in in the 8TH inning .... Orioles within 1 now! 10-9 Sox

467 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm

[459] That I couldn't agree with you more on. Kinda like how he'll call A-Rod "a liar" and "a clown" on the blog, yet that somehow never seems to make it into the postgame interview

468 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm

Mo vs. Jr. = cool.

469 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm

[453] Late life is kind of like a hop on the ball as it crosses the plate. You can't teach it. It has been part of what has made Hughes special even when his velo tops out at 92-93. He didn't have it at all in April of 2008, probably because of the rib injury. Again, if Joba is hitting 95-96 with regularity, then it's a different story.

As far as makeup, I mean that it has always been said that Hughes is mature beyond his years. I thought that would translate into him being a cerebral pitcher at a very young age with great stuff.

470 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:20 pm

[460] "I’m not sure why it would matter when they started."

Bullets in the gun MP, bullets in the gun.

This is why they don't let kids (young kids) throw junk... except maybe in Japan...

Hasn't Joba already had TJ surgery?

471 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:20 pm

[466] Palmer is killing the umpires.

472 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:20 pm

[466] shhhh!!!! don't jinx it!!!

473 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:20 pm

11-10 Orioles!!!

474 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

Pete's comment about Girardi:

"UPDATE, 11:00 p.m.: New game. Girardi managed them right out of a win there, at least for now."

Earlier he was complaining that Girardi didn't leave Hughes in for 2 innings after a 9 pitch 7th inning. I think I agree with Pete there, but I also thought they were making Bruney the 8th inning guy.

Perhaps I'm over analyzing the minutiae of everything that Girardi does, but I just want to have the sense that he's making informed decisions based on logic and reason instead of managing from the gut, which it seems he's doing. Granted, he'd already lifted Phil, and he didn't much of a choice, but to stick with Bruney there, but why lift Phil.

Now, if he says after the game that: (1) Bruney's our 8th inning guy and we'll continue to evaluate whether he's able to do that; and (2) I lifted Phil Hughes so he would be available tomorrow night, then I guess I'd like the move simply because it's based on some reasoning other than rote managing.

475 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

@ 462

They won't. The Yankees win and go 12 games over. The mediots aren't as stupid as certain commentators here. They know when they'd look foolish.

That's the funny thing. There are a bunch of mediots that don't like Girardi. They'd love to tear into his flesh. But with the injuries and the crappy pen, they know they can't since they're, you know, actually winning more often than not.

476 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

Markakis triples .... O's up 11-10!

477 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

464--could this guy be banned? Alex? Cliff? It's not like william and I never disagree, but the place for that nonsense is an espn comment box, not here.....

478 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

[470] Bite your tongue!! No, he has not had TJ.

479 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:21 pm

[460] [469] still don't agree with either of you, but it really doesn't matter. i'm sure none of us would be disappointed if one is better than the other, as long as they're both good.

480 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:22 pm


481 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:22 pm

476--YES! And off Paps!

482 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:22 pm

Let's go on a looooooooooooong winning streak!

483 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:23 pm

Like a good pair of Levi's .... 501!

484 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:23 pm

Mariano saves the game and his manager...he should get credit for two saves.

485 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:23 pm

[478] Rotator cuff surgery then?

I could have sworn he had work done while at Nebraska...

486 NickL   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:23 pm

Nice win.....

487 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

[479] I just want them both to be healthy and in the rotation for the next 15 years. That's a modest request, right?

488 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

[483] Best jeans evah!

Easy access...

: )

489 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

[477] Just ignore him...if enough people do that, it goes back on the bridge. Also, you can always derive some amusement from sad level of immaturity.

490 tommyl   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

Go go O's!

491 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm

Holy Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After leading 10-1 after 6.5 innings, the O's score 5 in the 7th and 5 in the 8th, and now lead 11-10. William...WILLIAM! The Sox have blown a NINE RUN LEAD! Whats the word?????

492 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:25 pm

@ 465

And then Hughes is unavailable tomorrow.

As I've said before, they could easily have rules on Hughes' usage. If Girardi is hamstrung by those, then it's pointless to bitch about his managing.

Furthermore, they still need guys outside of Hughes to be effective. The only way to make that happen is by pitching them.

He brought Hughes into a tie game. That's good enough for me.

493 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:26 pm

[475] okay, but please don't call anybody here stupid. that's just mean. and very VERY wrong. pretty much everybody here (save a long-haired drummer in Atlanta!) are REALLY friggin' smart people. and we all LOVE the Yankees. i'm not even positive exactly who you're targeting, but out of the 3 people i'm pretty sure you're referring to - they're all quite intelligent. don't be rude.

494 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:26 pm

[470] Bullets in the gun? Maybe.

495 ms october   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:26 pm

[485] i'm pretty sure he had knee surgery. i think part of why it matters that joba started late and was a late bloomer since the poor thinng was a fatty growing up is he wasn't really groomed and given extra coaching and work and practice the way other studs were. so in some ways he is behind the curve.

496 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:26 pm


Yanks Win!!!!

Go Oreos closer!!! is it Sherrill? go him!!! : )

497 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:27 pm

Mariano saves the game and his manager…he should get credit for two saves.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. The offense in the 8th gets no credit.

Fire Girardi!


498 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:27 pm

[485] NVM... Joba had knee surgery while at Nebraska...

499 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:27 pm

[485] Stop putting Joba under the knife!! I think he did have tricep problems in college, which limited his workload and aided in his slipping past many teams.

500 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:27 pm

5 in the 7th and 8th. Wow. Boston's bound to score a couple in the 9th. : /

Show/Hide Comments 501-598
501 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:28 pm

[491] The word is the Sox are three outs from a brutal loss.

502 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:29 pm

[495] Thanks Ms October... I looked it up!

: )

503 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

[497] at some point you became the epitome of what you began by complaining about so long ago

504 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

@ 493

Wait, repeating the same drivel game after game regardless of the outcome is smart?

505 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

Yanks win, Sox epic loss, falafels for lunch = smiley Mr. OK Jazz (Grant Green on iPod also helping!)

506 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

G Sherrill closing. 2-2 on the first batter. Now full count.

507 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

and...Bruney gets the win. hahahaha! no justice, Todd Drew, no justice...

508 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:30 pm

Bailey with a Single. One on, no out.

509 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:31 pm

[500] Leadoff man already on base...Sherrill in the came...I kind of have the same feeling as you do.

510 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:32 pm

[505] isn't Grant Green a shortstop? i think Oakland just drafted him! i thought KC was gonna take him. i hear he's, um...SOLID!!! ; )

let's call him...the MATADOR!!! ; )

511 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:32 pm

[477] why is his comment so bad that he deserves to be banned? I don't understand that....He's not personally attacking anyone here is he?

[497] who exactly are you quoting with the italicized comments?

512 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:32 pm

Lugo up. Sherrill is nervous. Nick Green in to run almost gets picked off at first.

513 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:32 pm

me no likey the leadoff man on in BallTumor. DP Lugo. you're on cue...

514 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:33 pm

Lugo actually bunting? Very un Sox like.

515 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:33 pm

0-2 on Lugo....

516 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:33 pm

@ 503

Perhaps. But you don't see me here game after game and day after day. Every fucking time I show up it's "Fire Girardi!".

Sometimes it takes a big dick to show how small some peckers are.

517 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:34 pm

Who the hell is Jeff Bailey?

518 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:34 pm

1-2 on Lugo after a foulback....

519 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:34 pm

Aftter watching Mo close out a game, it feels very uncomfortable to now have to root for Sherrill. Talk about night and day.

520 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm

This could be a historic comeback. 10 runs in 2 innings? 2-2 on Lugo.

521 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm

[511] This is largely personal, and has been going for a few weeks now. And no, I am not the main target of this particular poster's obsession. I made reference to this little grudge in [173].

522 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm

[520] It would be the biggest comeback in O's history, according to MASN.

523 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm

@ 511

I only have a problem with one poster here. It's the guy who makes shit up constantly. It's not hard to figure out who. He was also calling me names.

Fire Girardi!


524 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:36 pm

Sherrill is nervous and making me nervous.

525 PJ   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:36 pm

[499] Um, he has had surgery William, while at Nebraska, on his knee.

I just had to get the correct body part.

I don't pull stuff out of my ass, you know!

Being old, as you will be one day hopefully, my memory gets fuzzy on some things. Be prepared for that...

526 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:36 pm

Backwards K!

527 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:36 pm

[510] Yeah, man! No IDLE MOMENTS with him around, everything is ALIVE!

528 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:37 pm

[522] let's hope it happens!

[511] yes, there was a personal attack. no need for that here...

529 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:37 pm

Dustbin up... Youk on deck. 0-2 on the dwarf....

530 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:38 pm

I don’t pull stuff out of my ass, you know!

No, but that's typical of him. Call people wrong while failing to know what the fuck he's talking about.

531 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:39 pm

Fly out to RF. 2 out. Youk up....

532 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:39 pm

ok, I read all of Bum Rush'es comments and now understand the banning comment. Bum rush may I make two suggestions:

1. If you want to refer to someone's comment, use a bracket around the number of their comment (such as [456] )

2. If you disagree with an idea, that's fine, but be ready to back it up with something besides emotion. Stats are usually compelling. Attack the idea but not the person

3. Never suggest that anyone is stupid because they don't agree with you.

I've had PLENTY of hardcore disagreements on here, most recently Monkeypants and I debated Girardi. He's a thoughtful and logical fellow and I never resorted to calling him stupid in order to prove him wrong. Rather, I relied on careful and logical arguments from my super genius brain to do so (This last part is a joke).

Seriously, self-deprecating humor is great around here and by and large we all get along with each other. Just remember to respect people.

533 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:39 pm

[521] As the target of this obsession, I have to say that not only am I not offended, but I’m actually very amused. It’s so easy to ignore those who can’t handle themselves like a mature adult, that I really see no harm. It’s a shame that the incessant rambling usually kill so many threads, but thankfully the overall intelligence of the Banter overwhelms this rare example.

One more out to go!

534 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:40 pm

Strike 1.

535 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:40 pm

[525] Just stay away from that arm please!

536 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:41 pm


537 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:41 pm

Did Girardi get fired yet?

538 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:41 pm

1-2 on Youk. 2 out. Man on 1st.

539 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:41 pm

[516] you may not come here every day, but when you do it's inevitably to criticize william for criticizing girardi. meanwhile william has a lot more to contribute than just what provokes you. and apparently, as you seem to admit, you come here when you know people will be complaining about girardi (because you know that there is good reason, as you indicated by claiming maybe girardi is bound by some unknown rules).

you are now a broken record and more predictable than any commenter here. and that's the message you always give out, only aimed at one aspect of someone else's comments. it's very postmodern. are you doing a sociological experiment?

540 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:41 pm

Shit. Youk hit by pitch. 1st and 2nd.

541 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:42 pm

Jason Bay....of course.

542 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:42 pm

Jason Bay up.

543 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:43 pm

[533] You realize of course that this is all a big set up so that Big Papi can win the game. The fix is in...ESPN has made the call.

BTW, I'm referring to the sox game, not combox stalking...

544 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:43 pm

0-1 on Bay

545 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:43 pm

Sherrill looks pumped.

546 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:43 pm

0-2 on Bay.

547 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:43 pm

1-2 on Bay

548 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

@ 533

It’s a shame that the incessant rambling usually kill so many threads, but thankfully the overall intelligence of the Banter overwhelms this rare example.

Indeed. Glad you've recognized your impact. I have yet to read an apology from you for being so fucking wrong on Joba's health.

How's that financial analysis of all of the Yankees' red ink coming along. I thought you were going to teach me all I needed to know about financial concepts?

549 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

2 strikes. DON'T lose him!!!

550 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm


551 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

The Amazing O's.

552 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

[521] [528] Monkeypants and thelarmis, see post [532]. Y'all are right; they are personal attacks.

I am actually the biggest William fan around here. I think he's often in the minority but he always makes good arguments and I'm usually in the minority with him.

553 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

Theeeeeeeeeee Oriooooooooolllllleesssss Win!!!!!!

554 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:44 pm

"And the most miserable loss in decades is complete"

555 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:45 pm

holy carp! the Oreo's WIN!!!


556 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:45 pm


All-in-all, an excellent night of baseball!

557 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:45 pm

If the Yanks blew a 9-zip lead to the O's. or anyone for that matter, unaccaptable would not be in the top 20 words I would use. lol. I'm all for the MLB network, but why the hell didn't they show the end of this game? Sweetnonetheless.

558 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:45 pm

@ 539

I have yet to read anything other than that from williamnyy23.

Meanwhile, I vent on many other topics. Feel free to read more broadly.

559 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:46 pm

mmm..I tend to spend half my posts talking about jazz on a baseball blog so I can't criticize others for their content! I still think Bum Rush and William may actually be Alex and Cliff...has anyone every seen them inperson?

O's win! THhhhhhhhhhe O's win!!!!!!!!!!

560 thelarmis   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:47 pm

[552] i thought William rocked all offseason! did you see my self-deprecating comment? i beat ya to it! ; )

what's worse, is William has completely ignored the guy for ages now, but still gets attacked. i worked for a band leader like that once. just awful...

i'm off to go practice.

have a good night, y'all. play nice!

561 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:47 pm

[552] It's bizarre, really.

562 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:47 pm

Great, two back!

Now fire Girardi!

Where's william's apology to those discussing Joba's health history? Nah, who needs facts?

563 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:48 pm

Two very satisfying wins for the Banter!

[552] It really doesn't bother me at all, which is why I never respond to the offending posts. There are way too many intelligent, thoughtful and polite Banterites to be bothered by one exception. I just feel bad that everyone else has to deal with the annoyance. My best recommendation is to ignore the posts as I do.

564 tommyl   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

2.5 games back, Sox blow a game, including a gaffe of not knowing how many outs are in an inning. Boo ya!

565 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

[548] "I have yet to read an apology from you for being so fucking wrong on Joba’s health."

But if William was wrong about an issue, why must he apologize? I disagree with people all the time; sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm not, but when I'm right I don't demand that people apologize to me about it. Gee whiz dude this is baseball...there are many points of view.

566 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

Where's the apology, william?

567 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

For those without YES, Girardi's answer is: "Bruney is our 8th inning guy."

568 seamus   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

i should be asleep but couldn't resist watching the Os win! Oh, and a nice blown save too eh? hehehe

569 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:49 pm

BTW, wouldn't it be TOO BAD if we found out that Kevin Puklis broke his elbow on that beaning?

570 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:51 pm

It will be hard to find a Yankee win as wonderful as that Sox loss. Jeez... I wish I could be in a bar in downtown Boston now. Such fun!

571 Rich   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:51 pm

[567] And i wanted the guy hired because I thought he had a tractable mind.

572 Just Fair   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:52 pm

[569] I was imagining Papelbon Kevin Browning himself in the clubhouse.

573 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:52 pm

[563] i don't really thing it matters. engage, ignore, it's all the same to him. he's just a joker. i'm not really amused by him though. though the pecker comment made me laugh. but i think he meant it more as a serious metaphor than as an absurd joke.

574 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:52 pm

@ 565

there are many points of view.

What the fuck is this - a political convention?

Sorry, I believe firmly in facts, not bullshit. William was peddling bullshit, again, and got caught on the facts, again. Let's see him own up to it.

575 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:53 pm

I really hope Alex checks out this game thread and busts out a can of banning usuernames and IP addresses.

576 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm

[567] Yeah, that's disappointing.

577 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm

@ 569

If that's your way of cheering, you and william deserve each other.

@ 571

When Hughes finds a rotation spot again - and he will - who else is dependable in the bullpen.

The guy developed a pen from shit last year. I'll give him a ton of slack to do the same again.

578 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm

I wonder how loud Mariano Rivera's standing ovation on Old Timer's Day will be?

579 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:56 pm

[575] But i thought it was wrong to prosecute "Hate Speech"? :)

I only kid, Casey. We're all happy with such a great win and huge loss for our rivals. Now time for me to Sam Spade it and get to work..

580 monkeypants   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:56 pm

[578] How will that work? I mean, since Mo will never retire, will they let him pitch during old timers day as an active player?

581 51cq24   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:57 pm

[562] oohh, the yankees are 2.5 games out, not 2. where's the apology for your web of evil lies? come on, be serious. wouldn't it be more fun to stop being the one everything thinks is a dick and wants banned from the site?

582 Evil Empire   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:57 pm

[574] Bum Rush. What "facts" are you citing exactly? I haven't seen an ounce of statistical analysis come out of any of your comments. Where's the ERA+ or OPS+ references. And there ARE many points of view and some of us (including me) are non-plussed by the job Girardi has done. If you want to say that because we've won 6 in a row that Girardi gets the credit and is a great manager then so be it, but just make sure you stop by when we've lost 4 in a row so you can read the other side.

Meanwhile, if you continue to attack people personally (rather than ideas) then there will be more and more posters calling for you to be banned. You really don't want that.

[567] William I thought he might say something like that. But if he added that he wanted Phil for another inning tomorrow I think that would be appropriate.

583 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:57 pm

Joba: "I'm continuing to learn". Joba seemed a little subdued and a little annoyed.

I think Joba is definitely facing a steep learning curve, which again leads me back to giving him an occasional start off to gather his lessons and go forward.

584 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:57 pm

Yup, not even a simple "my bad" for being so utterly wrong on something so simple.

When I first started posting here - back in 2005 - people used to care about facts. But when bullshit is so much easier, why bother? I mean it's not like there's technology available to find answers to simple questions in like .001 seconds.

585 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:58 pm

[580] I meant when he saves the regular season victory ON Old Timer's Day.

586 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 30, 2009 11:59 pm

You know, simple questions about whether Joba has ever had surgery.

587 Bum Rush   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:01 am

@ 581

I hate to break it to you but the two games in the loss column are the only ones that matter.

588 PJ   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:02 am

I would add, without fear of contradiction, that Mo will get a "O'Neillarian" (sorry Alex) send off during his last game at NYS before he "Mo's 'em down" in his first OTD game...

: )

589 51cq24   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:02 am

[584] so you want william to be your source of all information within .001 seconds? such that if he doesn't know joba's injury history you are so offended? and call him a liar, even though he only ever said definitively that he hadn't had tj or shoulder surgery? if you are trying to rely upon william for all your information, then i finally understand why you get so angry. presumably your own google takes longer than .001 seconds?

590 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:03 am

[577] LOL Bum Rush. This is my last response to you because I'm not going to get involved in a debate with you about posting etiquette. You can take it from me that attacking the idea is appropriate and attacking the person is not. All I've seen from you is abuse. If I see you direct anymore abuse at William or anyone else, I will personally beg Alex and Cliff to ban you. There are a lot of old time Banterites that will likely do the same.

As for your response to me hoping Kevin Puklis hurt his arm, you kinda sorta attacked the idea, but then you attacked the person by dragging william into it. You really don't get it. There are lots of other game threads on lots of other sites.

Why don't you check out http://www.nomaas.org where they literally have a thread that attacks "mediots" and anything goes and they say horrible things to one another.

591 51cq24   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:06 am

[587] is that the kind of thing you learned on the old intelligent banter? that's enough of this now. do you see that everyone is against you? even the ones who most frequently disagree with william? i'm citing facts!

592 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:09 am

[591] yeah 51cq24, I want him to apologize to me too! Dude that was the funniest comment of the night and then, instead of apologizing, he argues loss column. OYE. This is going to be a long summer. Maybe he can head off to Nomaas where they really don't care what people say.

593 Bum Rush   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:10 am

@ 589

If someone doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about they shouldn't be talking, most especially when the answer can be found today in less than one second of committed research.

@ 590

I will personally beg Alex and Cliff to ban you.

Hahahahahaha! That's almost as funny as the "Fire Girardi" meme.

No, what we really need here is juvenile names for opposing players. That will make for some enlightened discussion.

594 Bum Rush   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:14 am

Has Girardi been fired yet?

595 Bum Rush   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:21 am

What about now?

596 The Hawk   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:34 am

Reading this thread well after the game was a surreal experience. But it did give me a positive feeling about the sense of community here, so good for everyone, you've pleased me ... ; ) Seriously though, it is something to be valued.

Another thoroughly "meh" performance by Joba - I wonder now after reading about the Hughes/Bruney (speaking of "meh") bet, is there another bet between Chamberlain and Wang as to how mediocre they can be? - but a win, as they say, is a win. Nice to see Melky come through and oh yeah - Fire Girardi!!!

597 The Hawk   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:37 am

Wait how can I forget? The Red Sox, choking like '09 Yanks! Great stuff. Now that we know that they too can be pathetic let me call for Francona's head, to be fair.

598 PJ   ~  Jul 1, 2009 12:55 am

[597] "Now that we know that they too can be pathetic let me call for Francona’s head, to be fair."

In my best Good Witch of the North from "The Wizard of Oz"...

And Theo's, too!

Queue Dorothy:

"There's no place like home. There's no place like home. There's no place like home."

G'night all!

: )

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver