"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Los Angeles Angels II: Gimme A Break

Coming into the season, I didn’t think the Angels had the offense to leave their division in the dust the way they did last year when they greatly overachieved relative to their run differential. Thus far, however, the offense has been there, but the pitching hasn’t, and poor team defense (hello Bobby Abreu) isn’t helping. Or so it would appear.

Only two Angels starters have made their full slate of starts this year. Of those two, Jered Weaver, who starts Saturday’s game on FOX, has been excellent, but Joe Sanders, who starts tonight, has been no better than average, adding a run to his ERA of a year ago, seeing his walks and strikeouts converge, and allowing a league-leading 20 homers in just 17 starts.

After starting the season on the DL, John Lackey, who starts Sunday, has gone 3-4 with a 5.18 ERA in 11 starts. His poor performance can be traced to a .353 opponents’ average on balls in play, which would seem to be attributable to that poor team defense. Ervin Santana has been on and off the DL all year and has a dismal 1-5 record to go with his alarming 7.81 ERA. Again, one looks to the defense as Santana sports an absurd .385 BABIP.

So who are the culprits in the field? That’s hard to figure. Going position-by-position, the Angels are rarely more than a tick below average anywhere on the field. Torii Hunter’s not as good as he used to be, but Bobby Abreu’s not nearly as bad as he was for the Yankees last year. Juan Rivera, another former Yankee, who has rebounded from nearly two seasons lost to a broken leg with a strong showing at the plate, has actually been a significant plus in the pastures. The middle infield grades out to about average, and better than that when Howie Kendrick plays, and the corners have been solid.

Gary Matthews Jr. has been awful on both sides of the ball, but most of his playing time came in the outifeld before Lackey and Santana returned from their initial DL stays; it’s hard to imagine a scenario in which he alone could be blamed for their struggles. So maybe it’s not team defense that is the problem. Maybe Lackey and Santana are just all kinds of hittable right now. Either way, it’s bad news for the Halos, who are struggling to stay atop their division and enter this final series before the All-Star break a half-game behind the Rangers in the AL West and four-games out of the Wild Card race.

More bad news hit Anaheim today as both Hunter and Vladimir Guerrero hit the DL. Guerrero, who might be the oldest 34-year-old in baseball, is on the shelf for the second time this season. Meanwhile, Hunter’s replacement in center will be none other than Matthews, the team’s $50 million mistake.

Tonight the Yankees face lefty Joe Saunders, who has allowed 14 runs in nine innings over his last two starts. Saunders has really been hit or miss all season, with his two worst starts coming against the Rangers in Arlington (seven of the 20 home runs he’s allowed came in those two starts). At home, he’s posted a 3.43 ERA, though he was touched up by the Orioles at home his last time out. In addition to the Rangers, Saunders has been particularly susceptible to right-handed hitters, who are slugging .505 against him. That’s good news for the heart of the Yankee order.

He’ll face Joba Chamberlain, who got an ego check his last time out when he allowed eight runs in 3 2/3 innings. Joba’s been a bit obstinate about his performances thus far this season, often giving too much credit to the opposing lineup as well as to his own ability to make good pitches, when in reality he’s been inefficient, nibbly, and his velocity has lacked consistency. He’s still been valuable, but his lack of progress is becoming disturbing. Part of me almost wants him to get his ass handed to him tonight so he has to ugly outings staring him in the face through the All-Star break. The hope being that might put a crack in some of his delusions.

Mark Melancon rejoins the bullpen tonight with Jonathan Albaladejo getting optioned out despite his fine work in yesterday’s game. Derek Jeter gets a half-day off at DH with Cody Ransom, who drove in a pair of runs yesterday, playing shortstop against the lefty Saunders. Nick Swisher bats fifth ahead of Robinson Cano. Melky’s in center, and Jose Molina makes his first appearance since being activated, catching Chamberlain and giving us a chance to see just how much Francisco Cervelli and Ramiro Peña really are going to be missed in the short term.

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim

2009 Record: 46-37 (.554)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 43-40 (.518)

Manager: Mike Scioscia
General Manager: Tony Reagins

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Angel Stadium (103/102)

Who’s Replaced Whom:

  • Reggie Willits (minors) has replaced Rafael Rodriguez (minors)
  • Bobby Wilson (minors) has replaced Torii Hunter (DL)
  • John Lackey (DL) has replaced Shane Loux (DL)
  • Ervin Santana (DL) has replaced Anthony Ortega (minors)
  • Darren Oliver (DL) has replaced Scot Shields (DL)
  • Kevin Jepsen (DL) has replaced Jose Arredondo (minors)
  • Rich Thompson (minors) has replaced Fernando Rodriguez (minors)

25-man Roster:

1B – Kendry Morales (S)
2B – Howie Kendrick (R)
SS – Erick Aybar (S)
3B – Chone Figgins (S)
C – Jeff Mathis (R)
RF – Bobby Abreu (L)
CF – Gary Matthews Jr. (S)
LF – Juan Rivera (R)
DH – Mike Napoli (R)


S – Maicer Izturis (IF)
R – Robb Quinlan (3B/1B)
S – Reggie Willits (OF)
R – Brandon Wood (IF)
R – Bobby Wilson (C)


R – John Lackey
R – Ervin Santana
L – Joe Saunders
R – Jered Weaver
R – Matt Palmer


L – Brian Fuentes
R – Justin Speier
L – Darren Olivers
R – Jason Bulger
R – Kevin Jepsen
R – Rich Thompson

15-day DL: DH – Vladimir Guerrero (knee/hamstring), CF – Torii Hunter (adductor strain), RHP – Kelvim Escobar (shoulder tendonitis), RHP – Shane Loux (shoulder inflammation)

60-day DL: RHP – Scot Shields (knee surgery), RHP – Dustin Moseley (nerve condition in forearm)

Typical Lineup:

S – Chone Figgins (3B)
S – Gary Matthews Jr. (CF)
L – Bobby Abreu (RF)
R – Juan Rivera (LF)
S – Kendry Morales (1B)
R – Mike Napoli (DH)
R – Howie Kendrick (2B)
R – Jeff Mathis (C)
S – Erick Aybar (SS)

Notes: Kendrick has largely lost his second base job to Maicer Izturis. Napoli and Jeff Mathis split the catching duties evenly.

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Game Thread  Series Preview

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 8:25 pm

Joba HAS to go at least 6 innings tonight..if I see a 3-2 count to the leadoff batter I'm going to hurl..

meanwhile on tv here, Sox-Royals is 0-0 in the 5th..Sox have zero runs against Brian Bannister...somewhere on BoSox Banter, WilliamBOS23 is posting about the lineup lacking something and questioning Francona's smarts..

2 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 8:36 pm

Ellsbury thrown out at home in a weird play, got ejected for slamming his helmet down..HE GONE!

3 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 8:55 pm

Bannister K'd Big PooPoo for the 3rd time..still no score in Boston..

quiet here, everyone waiting for the 10pm EST start? Unfortunately 11am game on tv here is Seattle-Texas..so it's web radio for me..

4 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 8:58 pm

When $200+ million yields both Ransom and Molina in the same lineup when everyone is healthy, something has gone wrong.

5 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 8:58 pm

Royals with some pee-wee league base-running..what an awful team..Trey Hillman, where are those "Japanese fundamentals" you learned when leading the Nippon Ham Fighters to the championship? Royals are just a horrid team..

6 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:25 pm

Huge strike out for Bannister, Nancy Drew sits down! Really good game here actually, just hope KC can manage a run..only 2 hits all game for Boston off of Bannister..man on 2nd, two out, bottom 8th..

7 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:28 pm

Ahh..double for Dusty McTrainingwheels, Sox get on the board..

8 Diane Firstman   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:33 pm

(geek alert on)

Dustin Pedroia has a valid anagram in Scrabble: SUPERADDITION

(geek alert off)

9 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:37 pm

[8] Not nearly as geeky as repeatedly posting comments on thread all by yourself.. (see above!)

Papelbon gets the 1st out, Royals are toast..

10 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:38 pm

what kind of bullshit is this 10pm start?!?

11 Sliced Bread   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:45 pm

[8] Dustin Pedroia also has a valid synonym in Banter: ASSWIPE

[10] word

Meh'lina. Meh'lina. Meh'lina.
There, I said it thrice, now he shall drive in 3 runs, and gun down all runners....

or at least make Joba appreciate the run support that Jorgie offers.

12 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:49 pm

Sox Win. Jays win. Rays about to win. Tough division.

13 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:49 pm

[9] Have you sought out professional help for this?

14 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:51 pm

[13] If Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO posts alone in the forest..

15 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:52 pm

[10] 10pm???

Perfectly lovely 7pm start by my watch ...

Ah, the perks of being a sports fan on the West Coast ...

16 Sliced Bread   ~  Jul 10, 2009 9:57 pm

[15] damn, I LOVED Sunday AM football the years I was out there.

17 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:00 pm

[16] Not to mention, Monday Night Football doesn't end on Tuesday around here!


18 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:01 pm

[15] Sat morning 11am start here, perfect! Finish up around 2pm, then out for the day..Yakult Swallows vs Yokohama Baystars tonight, $15 for outfield seats, can't wait!

19 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:05 pm

[14] "If Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO posts alone in the forest..."

All of nature observes attentively!

: )

20 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:05 pm

[15] some good ole east coast bias cult.

you going to make it to any games this weekend?

21 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:05 pm


10 pm start = Yankees game does not conflict with Jays game = I get to watch the game on TV = no Waldman/Sterling = I am allowed to try to predict baseball.

22 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:07 pm

[21] predict baseball? you are living dangerously tonight man

23 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:08 pm

[20] Fraid not, going to be out of town this weekend and couldn't make the game tonite.


24 Cliff Corcoran   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:08 pm

no Waldman/Sterling = I am allowed to try to predict baseball

+5 points (even though you just can't . . .)

25 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:08 pm

woo damn near decapitated saunders there

26 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:13 pm

Angel fans are SO lame..

27 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:13 pm

Not so happy to see Teixeira at the Big A tonite ...

28 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:14 pm

heh ... but they hate Alex more

29 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:15 pm

according to petey no hughesy tonight - 2 1/3 innings the last 2 games

30 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:15 pm

Damon with the spikes er um, elbows up on that slide?

: )

31 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:16 pm

Woohoo Alex!

32 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:17 pm

Go Go A-Rod!
Ichiro leads off with a single against the Rangers..wonder if the M's can hang in the West..

33 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:17 pm

Spanky McSkittles!

34 Sliced Bread   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:18 pm

Desperately trying to out-do Jeter, ARod hustles into 2nd....

35 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:18 pm

[26] nothing compared to the lameness of boston that is still haunting me though. the DEAN of the graduate school i finished recently sends these lame updates high;ighting all the wonderful things he is doing and about the school and all the research institutes and crap every so often. i just checked my old email today and the update from a week or so ago ended by saying "and the yankees are 3 games back" un-fucking-believable

36 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:19 pm

nice to see Alex and Spanky SWEEP THE LEG!!!

37 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:20 pm

oh keny - you too with the mike scoisca one of the best managers in the game meme

38 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:20 pm

[34] Yeah, but Kate Hudson sho nuff ain't close to Lara Dutta... http://tinyurl.com/lekzog

39 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:20 pm

[34] He had yesterday "half off," so he's fine tonight...

: )

40 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:21 pm

well that was a most acceptable start to the game

41 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:21 pm

ok joba, not so much with the nibbley tonite, si???

42 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:23 pm

[38] I can't afford anything over 18 years old, OK Jazz...

: )

43 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:23 pm

[38] you are correct, sir!

44 Sliced Bread   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:24 pm

[38] whoah. Gotta get the full set of Jeter trading cards. Collect 'em ALL.

45 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:24 pm

choad tried to take out gritner

46 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:25 pm

Buh-bye, Figgy!

47 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:26 pm

hmmm ... abreu vs chamberlain ... this at bat ought to last 10 minutes

48 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:26 pm

[41] good work - joba listened this inning

49 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:28 pm

[48] Yes, Molina threatened Joba with sitting on him if he screws up tonight!

: )

50 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:31 pm

Crooked number picket fence?

51 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:31 pm

nice ab from molina there

52 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:33 pm

Golf Fairway? I've been there! Today even!

: )

53 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:35 pm

What's a 'West Coast'?

54 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:36 pm

I almost feel badly for the Mets. Terrible luck this year. And Philly might get Halliday.

55 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:37 pm

I REALLY like Jeter when he pulls the ball!

56 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:37 pm

[53] A place where Piazza called home at one pernt... not Pudge though...

: )

57 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:38 pm

Wewt Damon!

58 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:38 pm

[55] i knew you were thinking that. it's been pretty frequent lately.

59 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:39 pm

[56] It's in Queens? (Pudge in the Bronx)

60 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:39 pm

Molina totally found 3rd gear there!

61 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:39 pm


62 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:40 pm

[61] Wewt = Woot = Woohoo

: )

63 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:41 pm

is nice to see the yanks not shut-down by leftys this year - and in fact doing better than against rightys

vs rhp: 269/349/459
vs lhp: 292/379/497

64 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:42 pm

Time for a Big Fly...

65 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:43 pm

I hate that "horseshit" "transfer call"...

If you drop it, you drop it! Don't turn your glove over to let it fall in your hand!


Who started that crap?

66 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:44 pm

[63] I wonder if that's a fluke, or if having Posada full-time plus two switch hitters (Tex and Swish) plus Damon and Matsui both hitting lefties very well makes the difference.

C'mon, A-Rod!

67 Sliced Bread   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:45 pm

Ah, fug. No more Banter for me tonight. My wife and her girlfriend visiting from Phoenix just took over the high def set in the living room, sending my sorry East Coast time baseball loving ass to the lo def bedroom set where there's not a keyboard for miles. Some cold shit right there.

Enjoy the game, folks.

Kick Angel ass, Yanks.

68 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:51 pm

[66] hopefully it is not a fluke. cano is also hitting lefties quite well (better than righties) teix is prett substantially better against lhp.

question - which ops+ number has more value when looking at platoon splits sops+ or tops+? i am assuming s but it always throws me.

69 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:52 pm

[65] At least the transfer call is in the rulebook, as opposed to the swipe tag, the neighborhood play, the throw beat you play, and so forth.

70 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:52 pm

oh joba don't start that walking bs now

71 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:53 pm

[68] I have to confess, I don't even know the difference between those.

72 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:55 pm

Do you think if every time Joba got two strikes on a batter and then threw that bullshit slider in the dirt, someone kicked him in the ass (literally), he might get right thinking?

73 randym77   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

[67] You need to get a laptop. Even a $300 netbook would let you follow the Banter.

74 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

[72] i'm willing to find out. gm jr?

75 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

His stuff is ordinary.

76 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

[72] Joba's got quite a fat can so better be a big boot doing the kicking..hit by Gary Mathews Jr = yuck..

77 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm

bloody hell, joba

78 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:57 pm

via HT:

tOPS+ - OPS+ of this split relative to the player or team's overall OPS: 100*((split OBP/total OBP) + (split SLG/total SLG) - 1)

sOPS+ - OPS+ of this split relative to the major league OPS for this split: 100*((split OBP/ML avg. OBP of split) + (split SLG/ML avg. SLG of split) - 1)

79 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:58 pm

jesus, he's facing a hitter "hitting" .198 ... and he starts him with 3 breaking balls???

80 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:58 pm

[78] yeah so which one is a more useful representation ? i think s because it is league related, but am not sure.

81 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 10:58 pm

[78] HT?

82 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:00 pm

[79] oh, 5 pitches, 4 breaking balls ... 1 96 MPH fastball (according to gameday)

Joba pitches like he thinks he's Maddux ... MIKE Maddux.

83 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:00 pm

Nice play by Cano.

84 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:00 pm

that is one of the un-smoothest plays cano has ever made - nevertheless nice play

85 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:01 pm

[75] Gameday pitch fx has Joba with a fastball 93-96 mph, slider 85-88, and curve 77. That's not bad stuff.

86 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:02 pm

[85] Oh, then the YES gun is off again. It was very accurate for a few weeks.

87 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:02 pm

[80] I would say sOPS, for the same reason you cite.

88 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:05 pm

HT - Hardball Times

89 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:05 pm

[86] where does the gun have Saunders?

90 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:05 pm

kenny using the term "representative" again

91 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:07 pm

Hey everyone, well Suzyn I thank you, and HOLA!

Question: Is it just me or did Damon's slide in the 2nd inning kind of seem like a "Screw you we're not taking your Bullshit anymore" to the Angels. Calling the sample size police, but we did win the 2 of 3 in NYC and that's the first time I can recall leading the season series with these bastards in a while.

92 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:09 pm

I believe expecting a shutout from Joba @ the Halos is a bit lofty, no matter who is hurt on their team, and especially one start removed from a meltdown, regardless of how much in denial he was in the post game interview.

I'm just sayin'.

I see he has made a noticeable effort to speed up.

93 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:11 pm

[92 ] I just want his velo to be up. It's looking better tonight, so that's good.

94 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:15 pm

Angels announcers now attuned to the fact that Joba is a "very slow worker".

Well, the plan worked for an inning ...

95 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:18 pm

Would someone explain how U2 and Blackberry are going to save the world? Or am I the only getting that commercial up here in Canadia?

96 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:18 pm

[94] yeah that didn't last long.

joba only threw sliders to rivera that inning

97 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:18 pm

[94] just give us 7 innings with the short pen...or at least 6

98 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:19 pm

Which THREE All-Star MVPs were WS MVPs the same year?
Jeter is one, I believe.

99 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:20 pm

[96] i should clarify to see that joba didn't throw sliders to any batters but rivera that inning - he didn't only throw sliders to rivera

100 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:21 pm

bobby - what are you doing out there?

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:21 pm

Cody Ransom ≠ good

102 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:21 pm

[95] I loved U2 when I was growing up but recently...

interesting article by Gammons over at ESPN about international signings.

If we switch Cody Ransom for Colby Rasmus you think LaRussa would notice?

103 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:22 pm

What’s Abreu doing catching a LD near a wall?

104 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:22 pm

the wall bobby, remember the wall!

105 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:22 pm

Maybe the old YS RF wall had germs?

106 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:22 pm

jeter doing his part tonight

[101] poor guy is just not a ML - he certainly shouldn't be playing 2 games in a row

107 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:24 pm

Maybe Abreu realizes he has to earn his money now?

108 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:24 pm

crap - i wanted a run there

109 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:24 pm

Okay... enough with the "sitting on the lead" crap!


110 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:25 pm

Ransom must have pics of Girardi near a girl's summer camp.

111 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:25 pm

[107] Maybe the wall being 20 ft deeper near the corner has emboldened him?

112 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:25 pm

[107] As good an explanation as any.

113 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:25 pm

[100] I didn't even know Bobby owned a baseball glove! ;o)

114 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:28 pm

There is no target on his back playing in the relative obscurity of Anaheim's RF for a mere $5M...

115 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:30 pm


116 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:30 pm

Flaherty thinks Joba's FB has been "pretty average." He makes the same mistake I did.

117 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:33 pm

nice play robbie- good no runs that inning

118 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:33 pm

Cano times his jump well to end the inning.

119 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:33 pm

Robby Cano...dontcha Know!

120 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:34 pm

[116] It's weird--the YES gun has him at 90-91, but Gameday has him consistently 93-94, with a few 95-96. He has not been overwhelming, but he's bringing it. Maybe his FB lacks movement, because he doesn't seem to have gotten any swings-misses on the FB. His slider has been pretty tight.

121 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:34 pm

[116] Who made Flash the expert on "average" anything?

Nice D Robbie!

: )

122 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:34 pm

joba already at 68 pitches - be nice to get through 6

123 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:35 pm

[119] It is high..it is far..it is CAUGHT by Jeter behind 2nd base..wow, the wind really brought that one back in, didn't it Suzyn?

124 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:36 pm

[123] Um Suzyn... Jeter's DH'ing tonight, too...

: )

125 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:37 pm

There's my Big Fly...

126 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:37 pm

yeah alex - give boras something to cheer for

127 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm


128 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm

HAH! Kabbalah!

129 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm

He didn't even get his arms behind that... kinda just flciked it with his wrists. The guy IS strong.

130 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm

Yay Alex!

131 tommyl   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:38 pm

OMG, that was insane.

132 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:39 pm

[122] I have a feeling we'll be getting a little Melanconey later ...

133 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:39 pm

ok, too tired to catch up on the reading. but nice start here tonight!

134 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:40 pm

I thought A-Rod popped that up off the end of his bat.

OK, Cody, make them PAY.

135 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Ok Joe Girardi, show some balls here and pinch hit for Cody with Hinske, move Jeter to SS and Hinske to DH.

136 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Cody Ransom? Ticked off?


137 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:41 pm

[135] Ummm...you can't do that. if the DH moves to the field, the team loses the DH.

138 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:42 pm

[137] interesting, I thought you could double-switch the DH

139 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:42 pm

flash just completely ignored singleton's attempt to say he too has had someone intentionally walked in front of him

140 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:43 pm

[137] I guess Girardi needs to come to my office and request that they fire me...

141 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:44 pm

[138] Nope. The rule is in place so that a team can't use the DH to cycle players in and out of the field.

142 PJ   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:44 pm

[139] I don't think "Singy" was ever "ticked off" either... unless he got plunked...

: )

143 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:48 pm

ugh we miss jeter on that play

144 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:49 pm

[139] Flash seems to be using Ransom's ABs as opportunities for personal therapy and testimonial.

145 ms october   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:51 pm

[144] haha definitely

146 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:52 pm

he was out

147 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:52 pm

Umps are terrible at their jobs lately.

148 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:53 pm

[146] to expand. he was out but that call doesn't bother me. so close.

149 tommyl   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:53 pm

I hate Chone Figgins.

150 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:55 pm

Come on Joba...muscle through 6 innings.

151 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:55 pm

[149] he kills us. speaking of which, thank god they don't have garret anymore.

152 Rich   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:55 pm

Ump cost us a run.

153 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:58 pm

How long until Joba ever throws a complete game? 87 pitches already..

154 monkeypants   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:59 pm

Jesus, Joba was all set up to go 6+ and now he is burning through pitches.

155 seamus   ~  Jul 10, 2009 11:59 pm

[153] he is getting worse every game. It seems mysterious to me.

156 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:00 am

And this inning just gets better...

157 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:00 am





158 tommyl   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:01 am

Damnit Joba! Remember when you were amazing. Please go back to that.

159 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:01 am

...and better...

160 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:01 am

Ugh. What a horrible inning.

161 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:01 am

So much for considering this start as a positive.

162 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:02 am


163 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:02 am

I'm feel like vomiting after that homer.

164 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:03 am

Well, we can forget about six innings. I'm not sure he's going to get out of THIS inning.

165 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:03 am

Adios, Joba.

166 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:03 am

They need to consider getting a second pitching coach's opinion.

167 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am

nice fucking fog on the field....I understand they need fireworks, but that's pretty bush league.

Joba reminds me of Wild Thing Rick Vaughan in Major League 2

168 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am

they need to figure out something with joba. this is extending way beyond just a slump or rough patch.

169 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am


170 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am

"well, I made some good pitches and felt good out there..they're just a good ballclub, they hit good pitches.." etc etc etc

171 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:04 am

Jobe + Adversity = Bad... Mkay?

172 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:05 am

[161] Soooo frustrating. He didn't have overpowering stuff, but he was pitching pretty well. Too many pitches but not walking too many. Then a bloop and a bad call and an error--ok, you can't fault him for that. On the other hand, the last three hits were laced--1B, 2B, HR.

173 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:06 am

like I said, Melancony

174 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:06 am

Fortunately Phil Hughes has solved the Yankees' always vexing eighth inning problem.

175 51cq24   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:07 am

if it weren't for his other bad starts, i would accept a start where he gets tired, some plays aren't made, and he loses it. but now it's just another bad start. maybe send him to the minors for a couple starts?

176 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:07 am

[172] You were right about the uptick in his velo. Maybe it caused him to get gassed early?

177 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:08 am

I, for one, and damn tired of the way Joba Ponson has been pitching.

178 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:08 am

jonathan sanchez throwing a perfecto through 7 against the Padres

may have to watch that game

179 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:09 am

We're at the halfway point of the season here...and Joba is still giving me Jaret Wright flashbacks.

180 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:09 am


181 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:09 am

Good job, MM.

182 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:10 am

[179] Halfway through the season, he has 4 wins..I know pitcher Wins is an absurd stat, but still..

183 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:10 am

[177] Seconded...

He needs to be sent down to start the second half. He's not doing anybody any good behind this candy assed shit...

I know women with more balls!

184 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:10 am

[178] So, is it a rule that a Giants pitcher most throw a .... acceptable game...or near...acceptable game...every night?

185 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:11 am

[179] he reminds me more of Snacks because of the petulance.

186 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:14 am

I know it sacrifices "D", but with this lineup, we may need to see Hinske PH.

187 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:16 am

wow, jeter is a great hitter. anyone ever notice that?

188 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:16 am

[185] I think he physically resembles Wright. Also, Wright had good stuff. He just couldn't get past 5 innings. Probably because he threw so hard. It killed our bullpen.

189 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:16 am

Jeter came to play tonight.

190 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:16 am

Kung Fu Panda blows the perfect game with an E-5

191 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:16 am

Error in SF! no more perfecto..

192 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:18 am

[188] I'll give you the looks...God help us if Joba gains 100 pounds and shaves his head..but his attitude is Snacks all the way....

193 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:18 am

[188] Wright also had shoulder problems, IIRC

194 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:18 am

[190] It's all your fault --> [178].

195 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:19 am

[193] So did Sir Pizza...

196 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:19 am

you know, this is probably the most pitches joba has EVER thrown in a season. he may be only pitching 5 innings, but he is throwing 9 innings worth of pitches every time. He seems gassed. I know he hasn't been doing great all season, but last couple of starts he looks like toast.

197 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:20 am



now I'm working on the no-no, which he's taking to the 9th

198 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:21 am

This is how the last inning started!


199 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:21 am

Nelson Cruz just goes upper-deck at Safeco Field..nice shot!

I really really !"#$%&' hate the Angels...

200 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:23 am


Show/Hide Comments 201-300
201 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:24 am

[15] yes, 10 pm starts are great! in fact, i'd actually prefer 1AM Eastern starts. that's like noon to this vampire boy!!! : )

okay, back to catching up on the thread. by the time i'm ready to jump in, it'll be time to hit the bar, 'coz i'll have run outta beer...

my boy Banny was throwing a 1-hitter. of course, he lost. i fucking HATE those goddamn scumbags...

Joba's pissing me off. we best win this game and keep pace!!!

np = TooL "Undertow". Nobody's Tool. nobody. one of the GREATEST bands to ever grace this earth...any style of music. period, end of.

202 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:24 am

This game is now getting out of hand. On the bright side, Hughes is the eighth inning guy...tomorrow.

203 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:25 am


now we're losing. i HATE the halos.

what's worse is Scioscia was a Penn Stater and i've been hangin' w/ my Penn State band all night. : /

204 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:26 am

[202] i think you mean: eight pitch guy!

205 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:27 am

[192] You may have a point about the attitude. Joba got that DWI after someone teased him about the Red Sox winning the WS at a strip club. He left in a huff, speeding away in his car. And got stopped. I seem to recall Ponson getting into similar hot water.

206 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:27 am



207 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:27 am

[204] Right you are, sir!

208 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:27 am

i used to LOVE boBBy. not so much right now. this is all Joba's fault...

209 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:28 am

Interesting. Every throw to 1B since last inning has been bounced or short hopped.

210 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:28 am

[208] I still have residual enthusiasm for Joba. I blame it all on Cody.

211 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:29 am

[208] Not a TOOL fan! One day we'll hash out this metal argument :)

I really really hate the Angels..how do these guys always have our number?? And Damn Mike Scisioa, lose some f#ckin weight!!

212 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:29 am

now Melancon has the Wang-like ERA of .720...

213 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:30 am

[210] I have enthusiasm for him but am getting frustrated.

214 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:31 am

[209] I noticed that, too. What would we do without Teixeira.

Man, I hate the Halos. I still haven't gotten over 2005.

215 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:31 am

[213] Ransom is my new Cairo. Except this manager is not starting him on a semi-regular basis in corner OF and 1B. Still, my contempt is similar.

216 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:32 am

[210] i can accept that!

[211] i CANNOT accept that!!! dude, TooL are *NOT* Metal!!! trust me. i'm a metal enthusiast and they're NOT metal!!! my brother is a walking Metal encyclopedia and HATES TooL. they're NOT metal. they're just godly!!! think King Crimson with distortion!!! absolutely brilliant!!!

217 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:32 am

Girardi had better be warming up the PHs.

218 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:34 am

[216] Whoa! Really?? OK..with that description I wll give another try, I trust your judgment..Robert Fripp was "dope"!

Ok, some light comic relief for everyone..we need it with this game.. http://tinyurl.com/nq28wm

219 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:35 am

think King Crimson with distortion!!!

methinks you mean with MORE distortion!


220 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:35 am

Jazz Tokyo - just saw your Lara Dutta link. gorgreous!!! still, i'll take kate hudson ANY day!!! : )

dude, i've gotta find her name, but there's a drop dead gorgeous Indian tabla player girl. she's unreal. still, i'll take Emily Procter!!! : )

221 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:35 am

shit. that's where A-Rod was supposed to tie the game. : /

222 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:36 am

sanchez still dealing, 2 outs to go in the no-no

223 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:37 am

nice robbie!

224 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

[222] holy fuck, that rules! i thought he was being used as a reliever lately. he's been in sooo many trade rumors. always liked that kid. 1 more out!!!

225 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

Raise your hand if you would walk Melky and load the bases for Cody.

226 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

no walks and 10 strikeouts!!!

227 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

1 strike to go!

228 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

[225] yep but a PH would come in for sure.

229 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:38 am

oh yes, please pinch hit for cody

230 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:39 am


231 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:39 am

struck him out!!!

he did it!!!

11 k's!!!


: )

232 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:40 am

Sanchez threw a no-hitter!!!?? I wanted the Padres to win...that dirty sanchez!

233 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:40 am

man, Sanchez used just about every inch of a VERY big ballpark for the 2nd out of the inning ... dude just CRUSHED a pitch to dead center, CF raced back and caught the ball banging into the wall, 400+ feet from the plate.


234 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:40 am

Awesome! Congrats go out to Sanchez!!

235 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:40 am

[231] nope, just a no-no

236 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:41 am

fuck. there was an error. NOT a perfect game. damn. still, history...

237 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:42 am

i just gave the kid a standing O in my living room!

238 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:43 am

poor Juan Uribe. Cult - you see the error? was it egregious?

239 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:43 am

Very nice hitting by Melky!

240 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:43 am

THE MELKMAN!! What a great at bat.

241 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:44 am

Melky with some testicular fortitude!

: )

242 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:44 am

Leche!!! more, please.

let's tie. then take the lead. then.... WIN!!!

243 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:44 am

[241] brilliant!

244 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:45 am

[238] in between hop ate him up, then he rushed to try and grab the ball and couldn't get a handle on it

245 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:45 am

[242] i like how you spelled the plan out. :)

246 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:47 am

So, do you keep Molina in the game or move Po to C? Oops, Po walks so you have to PH for Molina, In any case, I would move Jeter from DH to SS and lose the DH. That pitcher would take over the #8 spot, so probably won't bat. And it it comes up, you still have Hiske and Gardner.

247 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:48 am

I'm just glad I worked "dirty sanchez" into a game thread in a seemingly defensible way [232]


248 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:48 am

c'mon Mats!!!

249 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:48 am

[246] yeah you have to because there is no other ss.

250 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:48 am

[246] sensible solution

251 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:49 am

who do we pitch in the next inning?

252 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:49 am


253 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:49 am

damn. he just got under that too much. damn.

254 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:50 am

Damn! How close was that to being a granny?

255 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:50 am

[251] i'd sent out bruney.

256 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:50 am

Damn. New Yankee Stadium power not in enough in this yard.

257 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:50 am

aaaaaaaaaaaah ... FUCK.

258 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:50 am

The Curse of Flash in the Booth lives!

: )

259 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:51 am

Jazz Tokyo - they just had some EA Sports commercial on ESPN. i saw Steve Nash and some other athletes. one was named "Freddie Roach". who's dat? i just know him as a super cool, underground, Hard Bop organist from Newark, NJ on Blue Note Records!!! i have all 5 of his solo cd's and the few where he was a sideguy!!!

260 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:51 am

dammit! we're still losing. NOT how i scripted it. still need to catch up on this game thread...

261 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:52 am

[249] You could go A-Rod to SS and Hinske to 3B...bit I wouldn't.

262 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:53 am

[261] yeah i thought of that but i doubt it would happen.

263 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:53 am

awwwww. i just saw the replay. definitely an error. can't even give the guy a hometown decision. boo. no perfect game. oh well.

all that's left is, for...

the Yankees to - WIN!!!!!

264 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:54 am

[257] my virgin ears!!! ; )

265 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:55 am

what? jetes?

266 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:55 am

[263] Of course, if he gave the hometown decision and awarded no error...he would have to award a hit, no?

267 tommyl   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:55 am

Are you freakin' kidding me?!

268 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:55 am

Derek Jeter see Luis Castillo

269 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:55 am

sweet jesu, WTF is it about the Angels???

270 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:56 am


: )

271 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:56 am

Bring back Cody Ransom.

272 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:57 am

Bring back Pena!

273 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 12:58 am

[259] No Way! I know Freddie Roach, how cool! Can we get him and Grant Green o the same team??

274 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:00 am

well, i called bruney. just thought it'd be earlier in the inning. :)

275 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:00 am

WTG, Farnsworth.

276 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:02 am

Flash just reminds us that Bruney was the eighth inning guy, but now Hughes has taken over that role. The eighth inning is indeed a tangled web.

277 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:02 am

but my god. bruney looks bad.

278 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am


279 Evil Empire   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am

night everyone....fuck

280 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am

Bruney is definitely not the eighth inning guy.

281 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am

ah, i tried to catch up on all the game posts, but don't have the patients...

[266] of course, you are correct, sir!!!

[273] dude, you fucking RULE!!! i think we're the only two 35 year olds on the planet that actually know who the fuck Freddie Roach is!!! and neither of us play jazz organ!!! i don't think he and grant green ever played together, though...

don't kill me, but i like TooL more than those guys combined times infinity!!! : )

282 PJ   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am

That settles it! I'm boycotting games with Flash in the booth until further notice!

G'night folks!

283 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:03 am

Ok, that's enough for me..hope my Yakult Swallows put on a better show tonight...

Damn Angels, I hate them...

284 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:04 am

So much blame to go around tonight.

285 williamnyy23   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:06 am

I wanted to stay away from this one, but man what a bad game.

I'd like to get on Girardi for punting the game with Bruney, but the real goat is Joba, whose act is really becoming tired. I really hope he doesn't go on and on about how well he pitched because this was a pathetic performance. It is getting to the point that the Yankees either need to DL Joba, send him down to learn how to pitch or come up with a new plan.

286 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:06 am


Pitchers. Break your heart every time.

287 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:06 am

Fuck!!! Bruney is really pissing me off. maybe he should get fat again.

this game was ours. he and joba pissed it away.

i'm still pissed at the boston scumsuckers for ruining a beautiful outing by Bannister.

goddamn this baseball shit. my stomach really can't handle all this back/forth...

288 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:07 am

A little bit of everything tonight. Cue circus music.

289 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:07 am

[286] much more eloquent.

yes...what she said!!! : )

290 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:07 am

wow Po was pissed!

291 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:08 am

[288] i've got that in my collection, too! : )

292 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:09 am

[290] He was, and I don't blame him.

Still...he got the out. What did he want the umpire to do?

293 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:11 am

i'll be even more pissed when we lose this game 10-9....

294 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:11 am

[285] The Connors Cure™.

295 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:12 am

[293] Then things are looking up for you. :)

296 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:13 am

i'm so weary. not sure i'll make it to the 9th. just feels like a game we were destined to lose. Unfortunately, tomorrow's game is going to be tough.

297 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:13 am

this really sucks. NO reason we should lose tonight. joba pissed me off. fuck boston. we best take the next 2.


298 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:14 am

[296] Chin up...tomorrow the eighth inning is covered.

299 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:14 am

[295] must be the beer talking! ; )

300 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:15 am

[298] which unlike you, I agree with completely.

Show/Hide Comments 301-341
301 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:15 am

20 pitches for 1 out so far. nice job, bruney...

302 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:17 am

boBBy's Iso-D is exactly at 100 points. i've always loved this guy.

303 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:18 am

[300] Well, it takes all types.

304 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:18 am

felt like 3 outs to cano.

305 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:20 am

Can't fault Cano too much for forgetting how many outs there are, given that it took Bruney a million pitches to get two outs.

306 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:20 am

[305] exactly. that fucking blew.

307 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:20 am

Bruney, in the end, did a fine job nailing down the all important eighth inning.

308 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:21 am

looks like i'll be up to the end for this one.

309 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:21 am

[307] enough with the dead horse

310 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:24 am

that's something.

311 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:24 am

Man, there's a bunch of Yankees fans at the game tonite ...

312 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:24 am

They have gotten their hits this game. But only six runs, which is not going to get it done tonight.

313 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:26 am

[308] oh I don't know, I think that horse can be ridden a little further. After all, every game I watch or listen to, no matter what team's announcers, I am reminded about the eighth inning conundrum--and that is no exaggeration.

314 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:28 am

[313] of course you do. Im asking you to cut it out. It's obnoxious and disrespectful to those who agree with those who thing that is a smart move to move Hughes there. I don't appreciate it.

315 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:29 am

[311] are you there?!

i'd like Melky to make it 10-8 right now...

316 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:30 am

Keep the line moving, Po.

317 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:30 am

everyone here needs to listen to TooL.

you'll feel better!

think of it as "music therapy" : )

318 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:32 am

[313] I figure as long as Joey Joe Joe insists on shoe-horning Hughesy into 10 pitch innings, the horse ain't glue yet.

bang away, lulu ...

319 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:32 am

[317] i can dig music therapy. though i may go more for Swirlies than TooL. is TooL different than Tool?

320 randym77   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:35 am

Bleepin' Halos. I hate them.

321 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:36 am


322 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:36 am

[314] Well, it may be obnoxious--I'll grant that. As for "disrespectful" to those who hold a different opinion? How? We have a difference of opinion on this point. Feel free to comment repeatedly about BP usage. I certainly wont be offended or feel that you showed me disrespect because you posit a different position.

For the record, tonight is a perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary BP praxis. A pitcher who is clearly off his game (Bruney) is handed a very sensitive situation, and even when he throws the ball all over the place and gives up a couple of hits, he is allowed to surrender the blast that put the game out of reach. In the old days, the fireman (Mo) would have been brought in that tight jam in the 7th.

Would that have guaranteed vistory? Jo. But it would have limited the chances the game got out of hand. Instead, the LaRussa BP has his two best pitchers watch (and I'm speaking in general,; I know that tonight Hughes was unavailable) while middling hurlers throw the game away.

So, I am sorry you feel offended or disrespected by this. But LaRussa-style BP management is flawed. And that is a general statement, without getting into my disagreements with the specific BP use of the 2009 Yankees.

323 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:38 am

[318] I agree. But that's it for me tonight.

The boys will get'm tomorrow.

324 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:39 am

total bollocks.

bullshit loss. no reason for it. : /

[319] nope, same band! they write it: TooL.

they're not for everybody, but they're brilliant gods!

we NEED to take the next 2 from this godforsaken bullshit baseball team.

Andy + CC = 2 Wins !!!

325 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:41 am

JUst saw the highlights...some nice plays to help save the no-no.

326 thelarmis   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:41 am

i wasn't around for most of the game, but didn't GI Joe bring Melancon in to a VERY tough situation. he seemed to do the same to Robertson yesterday. might not be the smartest moves...

327 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:46 am

[322] argue the point. but repeating the same sarcastic remark over and over is rude. The reason why repeating the same sarcastic remark over and over is rude is because it disrespects different opinions. Posting the same remark 10+ times in a blog thread isn't going to change Girardi's mind but just makes the thread less pleasant for others.

as for tonight, it is a perfect example of what is wrong with your thinking. Without a late innings Hughes option, bringing in Mo into a high leverage situation in the 7th is unthinkable because you have no one to get the last 4-6 outs. What makes our pen effective right now is having two top notch late innings guys.

The problem is that you are mixing apples and oranges. Whether or not Hughes should be a late inning, high leverage reliever is one question. Whether or not a closer should be brought in earlier for a high leverage situation is a separate question. Being an 8th inning guy, and whether or not you should use your 8th inning guy in a high leverage situation in the 6th or 7th innings are two separate questions. But you conflate them in your arguments.

In the old days, the fire brand closer would have been brought in the 7th to close the game. But he also would have had a 66% close rate rather than 90% effectiveness that the top closers have today. Without a second and/or third guy you are throwing away at least 1 in 3 games by trying to use a closer for 3 innings.

328 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:47 am

[326] He didn't have a lot of options. Aceves was burned. Hughes (assuming he could still go two) was unavailable. Joba stunk it up and only got into the fifth. So Girardi rolled the dice and tried to get some length from Melancon. It was that or go to Tomko, I guess.

329 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:48 am

[324] THanks. I was wondering about that. i'm not a fan. THough I'll admit that i've limitex experience with them. I love lots of distortion and especially feedback. I'm a HUGE Yo La Tengo fan for example. Swirlies I mentioned. Sonic Youth. etc...

330 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:49 am

[328] yep that is right. And I thought Melancon did pretty good all things considered. Joba and Bruney kind of stunk it up. WHich is a major problem.

331 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 1:54 am

We didn't really deserve to win this game. Bruney was bad, but so was Joba, Jeter dropping fly ball, a-rod bad throw to first, etc.. This really was a team loss. Disappointing of course. I'm impressed that we still put ourselves in position to win a couple of times in spite of all of that. We're always grinding.

332 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:03 am

[327] Without a late innings Hughes option, bringing in Mo into a high leverage situation in the 7th is unthinkable because you have no one to get the last 4-6 outs.

It't too late to go around with you in circles on this topic. But this statement is critical. Who cares about the last 4-6 outs when the game is lost in the 7th? The whole notion that the last few outs warrant some special pitcher--often your best reliever--is so deeply wrong, and I am not the only one who thinks this. This was a topic of conversation the other day and it was pointed out that my position is more or less sabermetric orthodoxy. That doesn;t make it right, but it's not some nutty idea.

As for the save rates, again you must have missed the long discussion the other day. Modern closers have higher save rates because more of their saves are easier. So what? Cliff cited evidence that the contemporary cloer usage has not increased the chances that a team holds a late lead. The game is now lost in 7th instead.

And this in turn has created more pressure to find ANOTHER pitcher or two to use in the eighth inning, regardless of the game situation, instead of putting the best pitchers in the highest leverage scenarios. And so on. It's senseless.

You are correct that my sarcasm has conflated two issues. But in the Yankees case, in my opinion, the situation is conflated. Because of the perverse obsession with the eighth inning--because somehow those three outs are now the most important in the universe--the Yankees have buried a promising young starter and converted him into a 9 pitch specialist. My beef is not that Hughes is in the BP; it's that this move is in my opinion stunting his development.

Yes, he has attacked hitters more, and that is good. But to use him 10 and 12 pitches a clip is a waste of his talent, and risks limiting his usage next year. I am also bothered on some level by how exactly Hughes ended up in the pen. Despite him pitching pretty good--at least as well as Joba is now--he was stuck their so that they could trot Wang out to get pounded. They said at the time that the move was temporary, but Hughes made the mistake of--surprise--being aboe to throw nine pitches very well. So when Wang went down with injury, Hughes was not able to swap back into the rotation--which is what the organization had hinted he would do--because he wasn't stretched.

In my mind, the complete misuse of Hughes (issue 1) is bound up fundamentally with the ridiculous BP construction and usage in contemporary baseball (issue 2) that saves the best reliever for a three run lead against the bottom of the order in the ninth, so that wounded Brian Bruney can piss it away in the seventh.

Finally, what makes the Yankees bullpen effective now is NOT having two top notch late inning guys. It is effective because it has several pitchers who are getting people out, regardless of the innings in which they pitch. As we saw this eveing, having two top notch late inning guys didn't help one jot because lesser pitchers threw the game away.

The best pitchers should be used 1) for the most innings possible relative to their abilities, and 2) in the highest leverage situations.

That is a fact.

333 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:05 am

[332] Despite him pitching pretty good–at least as well as Joba is now

I meant to say "pitching pretty good in his last four or five starts" (which were pretty good except for one stinker, as I recall).

334 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:07 am

[327] But he also would have had a 66% close rate rather than 90% effectiveness that the top closers have today. Without a second and/or third guy you are throwing away at least 1 in 3 games by trying to use a closer for 3 innings.

And the evidence shows that you are throwing those games away anyway--it's just that you allow them to be thrown away by lesser pitchers from you now 12 and 13 man staffs.

335 monkeypants   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:15 am

And one more point. My growing sarcasm tonight is linked to Joba's ineffectiveness. When the season started, the Yankees supposedly had pitching depth--six or seven potential starters on the staff or tucked away in MiL. There were questions marks, of course, but the depth as there.

But Wang has been hurt and quite likely handled poorly. OK, he's out of service. And who do the Yankees have to take his place? Not one of their supposed deep pitching staff, but a reliver Mexican league reclamation project. And now that Joba is struggling, and it looks like he may need some serious work, how can they move him into the pen? Or put him in AAA? Who will take his place--Mitre? Igawa?

It boggles the mind that the Yankees starting pitching depth has been frittered away, and that a man who was once one of the top starting pitching prospects in all of baseball, is unable to step in and spot start because the team has shoe-horned him into the "eighth inning guy" role. I am already getting the sinking feeling that sometime this year Kei Igawa or Sudney Ponson or some other equivalent drek will be called upon, just that Phil Hughes can nail down the eighth inning. The whole sequence of events is simply perverse.

336 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:16 am

This why I wanted to send down Aceves. In effect, they are two pitchers short, because Aceves can't go and Tomko only has value to his hot wife. This team could be run a lot better.

337 Rich   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:19 am

[335] IPK, Humberto Sanchez, Alan Horne, Christian Garcia, even George Kontos. They say that TINSSAAPP for a reason.

338 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:48 am

[332] having Hughes as an 8th inning guy has nothing to do with whether or not you bring him or Mo into a 7th inning jam situation. Yet you completely conflate the two making your argument largely unintelligible. Personally, what makes Hughes a real advantage for the 2009 bulpen is that it theoretically makes that kind of bullpen management an option.

First, it isn't important to me that you agree with me. You've made your case. I read it and disagreed with it. So why the need to hammer at it every 10 posts?

Second, the point is that ALL closers across history are more effective when their job is easier. This is exactly where modern bullpen management is right - by trying to make the jobs of all relievers easier and therefore making all relievers more effective. By trying to extend a hall of famer like Goose Gossage to 2-3 innings on a regular basis you achieved several things. But lower success rate is one of the most obvious. Also, you probably shorten their career, limit their possible appearances, and all kinds of other goodies.

Third, who cares if you save the game in the 7th if you lose it in the 8th or 9th inning. The bottom line is that in modern baseball you typically have 3 innings to cover. If the lesser guys have to cover the 7th and blow the game, how is that any better than the 9th? The only difference would be what do you do in a bases loaded situation in the 7th. And then I agree, you use your 9th inning guy or best available option. But you then need back up options for the 8th and 9th inning. This doesn't work unless you have a second high leverage guy, and optimally a third. Btw, there is a difference between losing the lead in the 7th and losing it in the 9th. In the 7th, you still have time to rally offensively.

As for Cliff's stats, and Cliff even acknowledged this, is that the numbers are over broad. This probably isn't a good analogy, but say over a 10 year period there is no proportional difference in driving fatalities. Can you therefore conclude that safe driving classes are an ineffective tool? I don't think so. There are too many other parameters to take into account to draw that conclusion. The same applies for those stats. We need to dig deeper to draw a conclusion and as flawed as the save stat is, it is far more statistically relevant in my opinion. Neither is fully satisfactory though.

More importantly, if with expansion and the steroids era and the offensive explosions of the 1990s and there was no difference between the proportion of games won going into the 9th inning with a lead that suggests to me that modern bullpen management is MORE effective. Because if everything was even, there *would* be a difference.

Hughes has been two totally different pitchers between his starts and bullpen action. The team made a really smart decision by refusing to force him back into the rotation to probably struggle again and throw 5 innings per start. He had one good start. Joba had one good start. The only difference is that Hughes didn't stick around to stink again and he has been dynamite in the bullpen and folks have forgotten how pedestrian he was as a starter this year. Worse yet, if you gamble on moving Hughes back into the rotation now, our bullpen becomes very thin once again. We only have one high leverage person in the bullpen without Bruney performing up to par. In fact, Veras is still probably there.

The notion that the bullpen would have been just as effective sans Hughes isn't realistic. Once Hughes moved to the bullpen and was very successful there it allowed Girardi to use the other relievers more optimally. Coke is not having to go two innings any more. We were able to release Veras. Instead of two crappy guys, we suddenly had one. Bruney has though gone bad for now making it two questionable relievers where we might have had three. When going from game to game, day after day, you now have created depth. That depth isn't there without Hughes there.

I don't know. I guess in short I don't see it as a coincidence that the bullpen has been solid since Hughes moved there. No I don't think he should stay there beyond this year. But I think it fills an important role on this team in a year where we already have one struggling young starter. Obviously Wang's situation complicates things but unless Wang is out long-term I see no reason to revisit it. It'd be nice to be a fly on the wall and know Wang's actual injury status. If it is more serious I might agree with giving Hughes a fly. Actually though I think Aceves would be a better short term 2009 solution. But neither of those questions is really relevant to the other matter of whether or not you want a second high leverage guy in the bullpen (aka 8th inning guy). Yes, we should be more effective in how we use both leverage guy #1 (closer) and #2 (8th inning guy), but that doesn't discount the importance of having them.

I could ramble on about 15 other parameters that I think influence this but it is late and who would want to hear that? This is probably my longest post ever here. I promise it won't happen again. :)

339 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 2:54 am

I should add that folks really get a kick out of Hughes pitch counts, but what I find amazing is what those pitch counts are. Hughes has become incredibly efficient. But he wasn't this efficient before at all. He went from ~20 pitches per inning as a starter to ~12-13 pitches per inning. I think this is great experience for him and his eventual role within the organization as a starter. I don't think he can maintain that efficiency as a starter on a regular basis. He adds that 4th best pitch back in or otherwise has to constantly face guys a second and third time in the same game. I don't have confidence that he'd be more than a 5-6 inning guy right now even if he was stretched out. Of course, we don't know that for sure. Which is a fine difference of opinion, but that is all it is.

340 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 3:02 am

Back to Joba, I mentioned this earlier and having noticed a decline in Joba's performance the last two games, I think that it should be noted that he is very close to his pitch level for last season. Last year he threw 1,711 pitches. After tonight he has thrown 1,558 pitches. At this time last year he had thrown ~600 pitches less. Red flags are going up for me. He looks like he has a tired arm. I realize this is primarily a subjective observation, but I think it explains the last two starts. and the seemingly declining velocity.

341 seamus   ~  Jul 11, 2009 3:03 am

[340] oops. I didn't calculate that 600 pitch number out. And it is 600 pitches less than his total for last year, so more like 450 pitches less than this year. But that isn't exact either. So take it for what it is.

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