Coming into the season, I didn’t think the Angels had the offense to leave their division in the dust the way they did last year when they greatly overachieved relative to their run differential. Thus far, however, the offense has been there, but the pitching hasn’t, and poor team defense (hello Bobby Abreu) isn’t helping. Or so it would appear.
Only two Angels starters have made their full slate of starts this year. Of those two, Jered Weaver, who starts Saturday’s game on FOX, has been excellent, but Joe Sanders, who starts tonight, has been no better than average, adding a run to his ERA of a year ago, seeing his walks and strikeouts converge, and allowing a league-leading 20 homers in just 17 starts.
After starting the season on the DL, John Lackey, who starts Sunday, has gone 3-4 with a 5.18 ERA in 11 starts. His poor performance can be traced to a .353 opponents’ average on balls in play, which would seem to be attributable to that poor team defense. Ervin Santana has been on and off the DL all year and has a dismal 1-5 record to go with his alarming 7.81 ERA. Again, one looks to the defense as Santana sports an absurd .385 BABIP.
So who are the culprits in the field? That’s hard to figure. Going position-by-position, the Angels are rarely more than a tick below average anywhere on the field. Torii Hunter’s not as good as he used to be, but Bobby Abreu’s not nearly as bad as he was for the Yankees last year. Juan Rivera, another former Yankee, who has rebounded from nearly two seasons lost to a broken leg with a strong showing at the plate, has actually been a significant plus in the pastures. The middle infield grades out to about average, and better than that when Howie Kendrick plays, and the corners have been solid.
Gary Matthews Jr. has been awful on both sides of the ball, but most of his playing time came in the outifeld before Lackey and Santana returned from their initial DL stays; it’s hard to imagine a scenario in which he alone could be blamed for their struggles. So maybe it’s not team defense that is the problem. Maybe Lackey and Santana are just all kinds of hittable right now. Either way, it’s bad news for the Halos, who are struggling to stay atop their division and enter this final series before the All-Star break a half-game behind the Rangers in the AL West and four-games out of the Wild Card race.
More bad news hit Anaheim today as both Hunter and Vladimir Guerrero hit the DL. Guerrero, who might be the oldest 34-year-old in baseball, is on the shelf for the second time this season. Meanwhile, Hunter’s replacement in center will be none other than Matthews, the team’s $50 million mistake.
Tonight the Yankees face lefty Joe Saunders, who has allowed 14 runs in nine innings over his last two starts. Saunders has really been hit or miss all season, with his two worst starts coming against the Rangers in Arlington (seven of the 20 home runs he’s allowed came in those two starts). At home, he’s posted a 3.43 ERA, though he was touched up by the Orioles at home his last time out. In addition to the Rangers, Saunders has been particularly susceptible to right-handed hitters, who are slugging .505 against him. That’s good news for the heart of the Yankee order.
He’ll face Joba Chamberlain, who got an ego check his last time out when he allowed eight runs in 3 2/3 innings. Joba’s been a bit obstinate about his performances thus far this season, often giving too much credit to the opposing lineup as well as to his own ability to make good pitches, when in reality he’s been inefficient, nibbly, and his velocity has lacked consistency. He’s still been valuable, but his lack of progress is becoming disturbing. Part of me almost wants him to get his ass handed to him tonight so he has to ugly outings staring him in the face through the All-Star break. The hope being that might put a crack in some of his delusions.
Mark Melancon rejoins the bullpen tonight with Jonathan Albaladejo getting optioned out despite his fine work in yesterday’s game. Derek Jeter gets a half-day off at DH with Cody Ransom, who drove in a pair of runs yesterday, playing shortstop against the lefty Saunders. Nick Swisher bats fifth ahead of Robinson Cano. Melky’s in center, and Jose Molina makes his first appearance since being activated, catching Chamberlain and giving us a chance to see just how much Francisco Cervelli and Ramiro Peña really are going to be missed in the short term.
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
2009 Record: 46-37 (.554)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 43-40 (.518)
Manager: Mike Scioscia
General Manager: Tony Reagins
Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Angel Stadium (103/102)
Who’s Replaced Whom:
- Reggie Willits (minors) has replaced Rafael Rodriguez (minors)
- Bobby Wilson (minors) has replaced Torii Hunter (DL)
- John Lackey (DL) has replaced Shane Loux (DL)
- Ervin Santana (DL) has replaced Anthony Ortega (minors)
- Darren Oliver (DL) has replaced Scot Shields (DL)
- Kevin Jepsen (DL) has replaced Jose Arredondo (minors)
- Rich Thompson (minors) has replaced Fernando Rodriguez (minors)
25-man Roster:
1B – Kendry Morales (S)
2B – Howie Kendrick (R)
SS – Erick Aybar (S)
3B – Chone Figgins (S)
C – Jeff Mathis (R)
RF – Bobby Abreu (L)
CF – Gary Matthews Jr. (S)
LF – Juan Rivera (R)
DH – Mike Napoli (R)
Bench:
S – Maicer Izturis (IF)
R – Robb Quinlan (3B/1B)
S – Reggie Willits (OF)
R – Brandon Wood (IF)
R – Bobby Wilson (C)
Rotation:
R – John Lackey
R – Ervin Santana
L – Joe Saunders
R – Jered Weaver
R – Matt Palmer
Bullpen:
L – Brian Fuentes
R – Justin Speier
L – Darren Olivers
R – Jason Bulger
R – Kevin Jepsen
R – Rich Thompson
15-day DL: DH – Vladimir Guerrero (knee/hamstring), CF – Torii Hunter (adductor strain), RHP – Kelvim Escobar (shoulder tendonitis), RHP – Shane Loux (shoulder inflammation)
60-day DL: RHP – Scot Shields (knee surgery), RHP – Dustin Moseley (nerve condition in forearm)
Typical Lineup:
S – Chone Figgins (3B)
S – Gary Matthews Jr. (CF)
L – Bobby Abreu (RF)
R – Juan Rivera (LF)
S – Kendry Morales (1B)
R – Mike Napoli (DH)
R – Howie Kendrick (2B)
R – Jeff Mathis (C)
S – Erick Aybar (SS)
Notes: Kendrick has largely lost his second base job to Maicer Izturis. Napoli and Jeff Mathis split the catching duties evenly.
Joba HAS to go at least 6 innings tonight..if I see a 3-2 count to the leadoff batter I'm going to hurl..
meanwhile on tv here, Sox-Royals is 0-0 in the 5th..Sox have zero runs against Brian Bannister...somewhere on BoSox Banter, WilliamBOS23 is posting about the lineup lacking something and questioning Francona's smarts..
Ellsbury thrown out at home in a weird play, got ejected for slamming his helmet down..HE GONE!
Bannister K'd Big PooPoo for the 3rd time..still no score in Boston..
quiet here, everyone waiting for the 10pm EST start? Unfortunately 11am game on tv here is Seattle-Texas..so it's web radio for me..
When $200+ million yields both Ransom and Molina in the same lineup when everyone is healthy, something has gone wrong.
Royals with some pee-wee league base-running..what an awful team..Trey Hillman, where are those "Japanese fundamentals" you learned when leading the Nippon Ham Fighters to the championship? Royals are just a horrid team..
Huge strike out for Bannister, Nancy Drew sits down! Really good game here actually, just hope KC can manage a run..only 2 hits all game for Boston off of Bannister..man on 2nd, two out, bottom 8th..
Ahh..double for Dusty McTrainingwheels, Sox get on the board..
(geek alert on)
Dustin Pedroia has a valid anagram in Scrabble: SUPERADDITION
(geek alert off)
[8] Not nearly as geeky as repeatedly posting comments on thread all by yourself.. (see above!)
Papelbon gets the 1st out, Royals are toast..
what kind of bullshit is this 10pm start?!?
[8] Dustin Pedroia also has a valid synonym in Banter: ASSWIPE
[10] word
Meh'lina. Meh'lina. Meh'lina.
There, I said it thrice, now he shall drive in 3 runs, and gun down all runners....
or at least make Joba appreciate the run support that Jorgie offers.
Sox Win. Jays win. Rays about to win. Tough division.
[9] Have you sought out professional help for this?
[13] If Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO posts alone in the forest..
[10] 10pm???
Perfectly lovely 7pm start by my watch ...
Ah, the perks of being a sports fan on the West Coast ...
[15] damn, I LOVED Sunday AM football the years I was out there.
[16] Not to mention, Monday Night Football doesn't end on Tuesday around here!
=)
[15] Sat morning 11am start here, perfect! Finish up around 2pm, then out for the day..Yakult Swallows vs Yokohama Baystars tonight, $15 for outfield seats, can't wait!
[14] "If Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO posts alone in the forest..."
All of nature observes attentively!
: )
[15] some good ole east coast bias cult.
you going to make it to any games this weekend?
[10]
10 pm start = Yankees game does not conflict with Jays game = I get to watch the game on TV = no Waldman/Sterling = I am allowed to try to predict baseball.
[21] predict baseball? you are living dangerously tonight man
[20] Fraid not, going to be out of town this weekend and couldn't make the game tonite.
Bah!
+5 points (even though you just can't . . .)
woo damn near decapitated saunders there
Angel fans are SO lame..
Not so happy to see Teixeira at the Big A tonite ...
heh ... but they hate Alex more
according to petey no hughesy tonight - 2 1/3 innings the last 2 games
Damon with the spikes er um, elbows up on that slide?
: )
Woohoo Alex!
Go Go A-Rod!
Ichiro leads off with a single against the Rangers..wonder if the M's can hang in the West..
Spanky McSkittles!
Desperately trying to out-do Jeter, ARod hustles into 2nd....
[26] nothing compared to the lameness of boston that is still haunting me though. the DEAN of the graduate school i finished recently sends these lame updates high;ighting all the wonderful things he is doing and about the school and all the research institutes and crap every so often. i just checked my old email today and the update from a week or so ago ended by saying "and the yankees are 3 games back" un-fucking-believable
nice to see Alex and Spanky SWEEP THE LEG!!!
oh keny - you too with the mike scoisca one of the best managers in the game meme
[34] Yeah, but Kate Hudson sho nuff ain't close to Lara Dutta... http://tinyurl.com/lekzog
[34] He had yesterday "half off," so he's fine tonight...
: )
well that was a most acceptable start to the game
ok joba, not so much with the nibbley tonite, si???
[38] I can't afford anything over 18 years old, OK Jazz...
: )
[38] you are correct, sir!
[38] whoah. Gotta get the full set of Jeter trading cards. Collect 'em ALL.
choad tried to take out gritner
Buh-bye, Figgy!
hmmm ... abreu vs chamberlain ... this at bat ought to last 10 minutes
[41] good work - joba listened this inning
[48] Yes, Molina threatened Joba with sitting on him if he screws up tonight!
: )
Crooked number picket fence?
nice ab from molina there
Golf Fairway? I've been there! Today even!
: )
What's a 'West Coast'?
I almost feel badly for the Mets. Terrible luck this year. And Philly might get Halliday.
I REALLY like Jeter when he pulls the ball!
[53] A place where Piazza called home at one pernt... not Pudge though...
: )
Wewt Damon!
[55] i knew you were thinking that. it's been pretty frequent lately.
[56] It's in Queens? (Pudge in the Bronx)
Molina totally found 3rd gear there!
Wewt?
[61] Wewt = Woot = Woohoo
: )
is nice to see the yanks not shut-down by leftys this year - and in fact doing better than against rightys
vs rhp: 269/349/459
vs lhp: 292/379/497
Time for a Big Fly...
I hate that "horseshit" "transfer call"...
If you drop it, you drop it! Don't turn your glove over to let it fall in your hand!
Bah!
Who started that crap?
[63] I wonder if that's a fluke, or if having Posada full-time plus two switch hitters (Tex and Swish) plus Damon and Matsui both hitting lefties very well makes the difference.
C'mon, A-Rod!
Ah, fug. No more Banter for me tonight. My wife and her girlfriend visiting from Phoenix just took over the high def set in the living room, sending my sorry East Coast time baseball loving ass to the lo def bedroom set where there's not a keyboard for miles. Some cold shit right there.
Enjoy the game, folks.
Kick Angel ass, Yanks.
[66] hopefully it is not a fluke. cano is also hitting lefties quite well (better than righties) teix is prett substantially better against lhp.
question - which ops+ number has more value when looking at platoon splits sops+ or tops+? i am assuming s but it always throws me.
[65] At least the transfer call is in the rulebook, as opposed to the swipe tag, the neighborhood play, the throw beat you play, and so forth.
oh joba don't start that walking bs now
[68] I have to confess, I don't even know the difference between those.
Do you think if every time Joba got two strikes on a batter and then threw that bullshit slider in the dirt, someone kicked him in the ass (literally), he might get right thinking?
[67] You need to get a laptop. Even a $300 netbook would let you follow the Banter.
[72] i'm willing to find out. gm jr?
His stuff is ordinary.
[72] Joba's got quite a fat can so better be a big boot doing the kicking..hit by Gary Mathews Jr = yuck..
bloody hell, joba
via HT:
tOPS+ - OPS+ of this split relative to the player or team's overall OPS: 100*((split OBP/total OBP) + (split SLG/total SLG) - 1)
sOPS+ - OPS+ of this split relative to the major league OPS for this split: 100*((split OBP/ML avg. OBP of split) + (split SLG/ML avg. SLG of split) - 1)
jesus, he's facing a hitter "hitting" .198 ... and he starts him with 3 breaking balls???
[78] yeah so which one is a more useful representation ? i think s because it is league related, but am not sure.
[78] HT?
[79] oh, 5 pitches, 4 breaking balls ... 1 96 MPH fastball (according to gameday)
Joba pitches like he thinks he's Maddux ... MIKE Maddux.
Nice play by Cano.
that is one of the un-smoothest plays cano has ever made - nevertheless nice play
[75] Gameday pitch fx has Joba with a fastball 93-96 mph, slider 85-88, and curve 77. That's not bad stuff.
[85] Oh, then the YES gun is off again. It was very accurate for a few weeks.
[80] I would say sOPS, for the same reason you cite.
HT - Hardball Times
[86] where does the gun have Saunders?
kenny using the term "representative" again
Hey everyone, well Suzyn I thank you, and HOLA!
Question: Is it just me or did Damon's slide in the 2nd inning kind of seem like a "Screw you we're not taking your Bullshit anymore" to the Angels. Calling the sample size police, but we did win the 2 of 3 in NYC and that's the first time I can recall leading the season series with these bastards in a while.
I believe expecting a shutout from Joba @ the Halos is a bit lofty, no matter who is hurt on their team, and especially one start removed from a meltdown, regardless of how much in denial he was in the post game interview.
I'm just sayin'.
I see he has made a noticeable effort to speed up.
[92 ] I just want his velo to be up. It's looking better tonight, so that's good.
Angels announcers now attuned to the fact that Joba is a "very slow worker".
Well, the plan worked for an inning ...
Would someone explain how U2 and Blackberry are going to save the world? Or am I the only getting that commercial up here in Canadia?
[94] yeah that didn't last long.
joba only threw sliders to rivera that inning
[94] just give us 7 innings with the short pen...or at least 6
Which THREE All-Star MVPs were WS MVPs the same year?
Jeter is one, I believe.
[96] i should clarify to see that joba didn't throw sliders to any batters but rivera that inning - he didn't only throw sliders to rivera
bobby - what are you doing out there?
Cody Ransom ≠ good
[95] I loved U2 when I was growing up but recently...
interesting article by Gammons over at ESPN about international signings.
If we switch Cody Ransom for Colby Rasmus you think LaRussa would notice?
What’s Abreu doing catching a LD near a wall?
the wall bobby, remember the wall!
Maybe the old YS RF wall had germs?
jeter doing his part tonight
[101] poor guy is just not a ML - he certainly shouldn't be playing 2 games in a row
Maybe Abreu realizes he has to earn his money now?
crap - i wanted a run there
Okay... enough with the "sitting on the lead" crap!
...
Ransom must have pics of Girardi near a girl's summer camp.
[107] Maybe the wall being 20 ft deeper near the corner has emboldened him?
[107] As good an explanation as any.
[100] I didn't even know Bobby owned a baseball glove! ;o)
There is no target on his back playing in the relative obscurity of Anaheim's RF for a mere $5M...
*sigh*
Flaherty thinks Joba's FB has been "pretty average." He makes the same mistake I did.
nice play robbie- good no runs that inning
Cano times his jump well to end the inning.
Robby Cano...dontcha Know!
[116] It's weird--the YES gun has him at 90-91, but Gameday has him consistently 93-94, with a few 95-96. He has not been overwhelming, but he's bringing it. Maybe his FB lacks movement, because he doesn't seem to have gotten any swings-misses on the FB. His slider has been pretty tight.
[116] Who made Flash the expert on "average" anything?
Nice D Robbie!
: )
joba already at 68 pitches - be nice to get through 6
[119] It is high..it is far..it is CAUGHT by Jeter behind 2nd base..wow, the wind really brought that one back in, didn't it Suzyn?
[123] Um Suzyn... Jeter's DH'ing tonight, too...
: )
There's my Big Fly...
yeah alex - give boras something to cheer for
YAY-ROD!
HAH! Kabbalah!
He didn't even get his arms behind that... kinda just flciked it with his wrists. The guy IS strong.
Yay Alex!
OMG, that was insane.
[122] I have a feeling we'll be getting a little Melanconey later ...
ok, too tired to catch up on the reading. but nice start here tonight!
I thought A-Rod popped that up off the end of his bat.
OK, Cody, make them PAY.
Ok Joe Girardi, show some balls here and pinch hit for Cody with Hinske, move Jeter to SS and Hinske to DH.
Cody Ransom? Ticked off?
LOL
[135] Ummm...you can't do that. if the DH moves to the field, the team loses the DH.
[137] interesting, I thought you could double-switch the DH
flash just completely ignored singleton's attempt to say he too has had someone intentionally walked in front of him
[137] I guess Girardi needs to come to my office and request that they fire me...
[138] Nope. The rule is in place so that a team can't use the DH to cycle players in and out of the field.
[139] I don't think "Singy" was ever "ticked off" either... unless he got plunked...
: )
ugh we miss jeter on that play
[139] Flash seems to be using Ransom's ABs as opportunities for personal therapy and testimonial.
[144] haha definitely
he was out
Umps are terrible at their jobs lately.
[146] to expand. he was out but that call doesn't bother me. so close.
I hate Chone Figgins.
Come on Joba...muscle through 6 innings.
[149] he kills us. speaking of which, thank god they don't have garret anymore.
Ump cost us a run.
How long until Joba ever throws a complete game? 87 pitches already..
Jesus, Joba was all set up to go 6+ and now he is burning through pitches.
[153] he is getting worse every game. It seems mysterious to me.
And this inning just gets better...
urge.
to.
kill.
rising.
Damnit Joba! Remember when you were amazing. Please go back to that.
...and better...
Ugh. What a horrible inning.
So much for considering this start as a positive.
ばかやろ、ジョーバ！なにやってる！！？
I'm feel like vomiting after that homer.
Well, we can forget about six innings. I'm not sure he's going to get out of THIS inning.
Adios, Joba.
They need to consider getting a second pitching coach's opinion.
nice fucking fog on the field....I understand they need fireworks, but that's pretty bush league.
Joba reminds me of Wild Thing Rick Vaughan in Major League 2
they need to figure out something with joba. this is extending way beyond just a slump or rough patch.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
"well, I made some good pitches and felt good out there..they're just a good ballclub, they hit good pitches.." etc etc etc
Jobe + Adversity = Bad... Mkay?
[161] Soooo frustrating. He didn't have overpowering stuff, but he was pitching pretty well. Too many pitches but not walking too many. Then a bloop and a bad call and an error--ok, you can't fault him for that. On the other hand, the last three hits were laced--1B, 2B, HR.
like I said, Melancony
Fortunately Phil Hughes has solved the Yankees' always vexing eighth inning problem.
if it weren't for his other bad starts, i would accept a start where he gets tired, some plays aren't made, and he loses it. but now it's just another bad start. maybe send him to the minors for a couple starts?
[172] You were right about the uptick in his velo. Maybe it caused him to get gassed early?
I, for one, and damn tired of the way Joba Ponson has been pitching.
jonathan sanchez throwing a perfecto through 7 against the Padres
may have to watch that game
We're at the halfway point of the season here...and Joba is still giving me Jaret Wright flashbacks.
phew
Good job, MM.
[179] Halfway through the season, he has 4 wins..I know pitcher Wins is an absurd stat, but still..
[177] Seconded...
He needs to be sent down to start the second half. He's not doing anybody any good behind this candy assed shit...
I know women with more balls!
[178] So, is it a rule that a Giants pitcher most throw a .... acceptable game...or near...acceptable game...every night?
[179] he reminds me more of Snacks because of the petulance.
I know it sacrifices "D", but with this lineup, we may need to see Hinske PH.
wow, jeter is a great hitter. anyone ever notice that?
[185] I think he physically resembles Wright. Also, Wright had good stuff. He just couldn't get past 5 innings. Probably because he threw so hard. It killed our bullpen.
Jeter came to play tonight.
Kung Fu Panda blows the perfect game with an E-5
Error in SF! no more perfecto..
[188] I'll give you the looks...God help us if Joba gains 100 pounds and shaves his head..but his attitude is Snacks all the way....
[188] Wright also had shoulder problems, IIRC
[190] It's all your fault --> [178].
[193] So did Sir Pizza...
you know, this is probably the most pitches joba has EVER thrown in a season. he may be only pitching 5 innings, but he is throwing 9 innings worth of pitches every time. He seems gassed. I know he hasn't been doing great all season, but last couple of starts he looks like toast.
[194]
HUMPERDINK, HUMPERDINK, HUMPERDINK!
now I'm working on the no-no, which he's taking to the 9th
This is how the last inning started!
Sheesh...
Nelson Cruz just goes upper-deck at Safeco Field..nice shot!
I really really !"#$%&' hate the Angels...
Merde...
[15] yes, 10 pm starts are great! in fact, i'd actually prefer 1AM Eastern starts. that's like noon to this vampire boy!!! : )
okay, back to catching up on the thread. by the time i'm ready to jump in, it'll be time to hit the bar, 'coz i'll have run outta beer...
my boy Banny was throwing a 1-hitter. of course, he lost. i fucking HATE those goddamn scumbags...
Joba's pissing me off. we best win this game and keep pace!!!
np = TooL "Undertow". Nobody's Tool. nobody. one of the GREATEST bands to ever grace this earth...any style of music. period, end of.
This game is now getting out of hand. On the bright side, Hughes is the eighth inning guy...tomorrow.
FUUUUUCK!!!!
now we're losing. i HATE the halos.
what's worse is Scioscia was a Penn Stater and i've been hangin' w/ my Penn State band all night. : /
[202] i think you mean: eight pitch guy!
[192] You may have a point about the attitude. Joba got that DWI after someone teased him about the Red Sox winning the WS at a strip club. He left in a huff, speeding away in his car. And got stopped. I seem to recall Ponson getting into similar hot water.
FUCK.
I HATE THE FUCKING ANGELS.
[204] Right you are, sir!
i used to LOVE boBBy. not so much right now. this is all Joba's fault...
Interesting. Every throw to 1B since last inning has been bounced or short hopped.
[208] I still have residual enthusiasm for Joba. I blame it all on Cody.
[208] Not a TOOL fan! One day we'll hash out this metal argument :)
I really really hate the Angels..how do these guys always have our number?? And Damn Mike Scisioa, lose some f#ckin weight!!
now Melancon has the Wang-like ERA of .720...
[210] I have enthusiasm for him but am getting frustrated.
[209] I noticed that, too. What would we do without Teixeira.
Man, I hate the Halos. I still haven't gotten over 2005.
[213] Ransom is my new Cairo. Except this manager is not starting him on a semi-regular basis in corner OF and 1B. Still, my contempt is similar.
[210] i can accept that!
[211] i CANNOT accept that!!! dude, TooL are *NOT* Metal!!! trust me. i'm a metal enthusiast and they're NOT metal!!! my brother is a walking Metal encyclopedia and HATES TooL. they're NOT metal. they're just godly!!! think King Crimson with distortion!!! absolutely brilliant!!!
Girardi had better be warming up the PHs.
[216] Whoa! Really?? OK..with that description I wll give another try, I trust your judgment..Robert Fripp was "dope"!
Ok, some light comic relief for everyone..we need it with this game.. http://tinyurl.com/nq28wm
think King Crimson with distortion!!!
methinks you mean with MORE distortion!
=)
Jazz Tokyo - just saw your Lara Dutta link. gorgreous!!! still, i'll take kate hudson ANY day!!! : )
dude, i've gotta find her name, but there's a drop dead gorgeous Indian tabla player girl. she's unreal. still, i'll take Emily Procter!!! : )
shit. that's where A-Rod was supposed to tie the game. : /
sanchez still dealing, 2 outs to go in the no-no
nice robbie!
[222] holy fuck, that rules! i thought he was being used as a reliever lately. he's been in sooo many trade rumors. always liked that kid. 1 more out!!!
Raise your hand if you would walk Melky and load the bases for Cody.
no walks and 10 strikeouts!!!
1 strike to go!
[225] yep but a PH would come in for sure.
oh yes, please pinch hit for cody
NO-NO!!!
struck him out!!!
he did it!!!
11 k's!!!
PERFECT GAME!!!!
: )
Sanchez threw a no-hitter!!!?? I wanted the Padres to win...that dirty sanchez!
man, Sanchez used just about every inch of a VERY big ballpark for the 2nd out of the inning ... dude just CRUSHED a pitch to dead center, CF raced back and caught the ball banging into the wall, 400+ feet from the plate.
Sweet!
Awesome! Congrats go out to Sanchez!!
[231] nope, just a no-no
fuck. there was an error. NOT a perfect game. damn. still, history...
i just gave the kid a standing O in my living room!
poor Juan Uribe. Cult - you see the error? was it egregious?
Very nice hitting by Melky!
THE MELKMAN!! What a great at bat.
Melky with some testicular fortitude!
: )
Leche!!! more, please.
let's tie. then take the lead. then.... WIN!!!
[241] brilliant!
[238] in between hop ate him up, then he rushed to try and grab the ball and couldn't get a handle on it
[242] i like how you spelled the plan out. :)
So, do you keep Molina in the game or move Po to C? Oops, Po walks so you have to PH for Molina, In any case, I would move Jeter from DH to SS and lose the DH. That pitcher would take over the #8 spot, so probably won't bat. And it it comes up, you still have Hiske and Gardner.
I'm just glad I worked "dirty sanchez" into a game thread in a seemingly defensible way [232]
;o)
c'mon Mats!!!
[246] yeah you have to because there is no other ss.
[246] sensible solution
who do we pitch in the next inning?
Shit!
damn. he just got under that too much. damn.
Damn! How close was that to being a granny?
[251] i'd sent out bruney.
Damn. New Yankee Stadium power not in enough in this yard.
aaaaaaaaaaaah ... FUCK.
The Curse of Flash in the Booth lives!
: )
Jazz Tokyo - they just had some EA Sports commercial on ESPN. i saw Steve Nash and some other athletes. one was named "Freddie Roach". who's dat? i just know him as a super cool, underground, Hard Bop organist from Newark, NJ on Blue Note Records!!! i have all 5 of his solo cd's and the few where he was a sideguy!!!
dammit! we're still losing. NOT how i scripted it. still need to catch up on this game thread...
[249] You could go A-Rod to SS and Hinske to 3B...bit I wouldn't.
[261] yeah i thought of that but i doubt it would happen.
awwwww. i just saw the replay. definitely an error. can't even give the guy a hometown decision. boo. no perfect game. oh well.
all that's left is, for...
the Yankees to - WIN!!!!!
[257] my virgin ears!!! ; )
what? jetes?
[263] Of course, if he gave the hometown decision and awarded no error...he would have to award a hit, no?
Are you freakin' kidding me?!
Derek Jeter see Luis Castillo
sweet jesu, WTF is it about the Angels???
Castilloarian?
: )
Bring back Cody Ransom.
Bring back Pena!
[259] No Way! I know Freddie Roach, how cool! Can we get him and Grant Green o the same team??
well, i called bruney. just thought it'd be earlier in the inning. :)
WTG, Farnsworth.
Flash just reminds us that Bruney was the eighth inning guy, but now Hughes has taken over that role. The eighth inning is indeed a tangled web.
but my god. bruney looks bad.
DFA
night everyone....fuck
Bruney is definitely not the eighth inning guy.
ah, i tried to catch up on all the game posts, but don't have the patients...
[266] of course, you are correct, sir!!!
[273] dude, you fucking RULE!!! i think we're the only two 35 year olds on the planet that actually know who the fuck Freddie Roach is!!! and neither of us play jazz organ!!! i don't think he and grant green ever played together, though...
don't kill me, but i like TooL more than those guys combined times infinity!!! : )
That settles it! I'm boycotting games with Flash in the booth until further notice!
G'night folks!
Ok, that's enough for me..hope my Yakult Swallows put on a better show tonight...
Damn Angels, I hate them...
So much blame to go around tonight.
I wanted to stay away from this one, but man what a bad game.
I'd like to get on Girardi for punting the game with Bruney, but the real goat is Joba, whose act is really becoming tired. I really hope he doesn't go on and on about how well he pitched because this was a pathetic performance. It is getting to the point that the Yankees either need to DL Joba, send him down to learn how to pitch or come up with a new plan.
BOOOOOOOO
Pitchers. Break your heart every time.
Fuck!!! Bruney is really pissing me off. maybe he should get fat again.
this game was ours. he and joba pissed it away.
i'm still pissed at the boston scumsuckers for ruining a beautiful outing by Bannister.
goddamn this baseball shit. my stomach really can't handle all this back/forth...
A little bit of everything tonight. Cue circus music.
[286] much more eloquent.
yes...what she said!!! : )
wow Po was pissed!
[288] i've got that in my collection, too! : )
[290] He was, and I don't blame him.
Still...he got the out. What did he want the umpire to do?
i'll be even more pissed when we lose this game 10-9....
[285] The Connors Cure™.
[293] Then things are looking up for you. :)
i'm so weary. not sure i'll make it to the 9th. just feels like a game we were destined to lose. Unfortunately, tomorrow's game is going to be tough.
this really sucks. NO reason we should lose tonight. joba pissed me off. fuck boston. we best take the next 2.
bollocks...
[296] Chin up...tomorrow the eighth inning is covered.
[295] must be the beer talking! ; )
[298] which unlike you, I agree with completely.
20 pitches for 1 out so far. nice job, bruney...
boBBy's Iso-D is exactly at 100 points. i've always loved this guy.
[300] Well, it takes all types.
felt like 3 outs to cano.
Can't fault Cano too much for forgetting how many outs there are, given that it took Bruney a million pitches to get two outs.
[305] exactly. that fucking blew.
Bruney, in the end, did a fine job nailing down the all important eighth inning.
looks like i'll be up to the end for this one.
[307] enough with the dead horse
that's something.
Man, there's a bunch of Yankees fans at the game tonite ...
They have gotten their hits this game. But only six runs, which is not going to get it done tonight.
[308] oh I don't know, I think that horse can be ridden a little further. After all, every game I watch or listen to, no matter what team's announcers, I am reminded about the eighth inning conundrum--and that is no exaggeration.
[313] of course you do. Im asking you to cut it out. It's obnoxious and disrespectful to those who agree with those who thing that is a smart move to move Hughes there. I don't appreciate it.
[311] are you there?!
i'd like Melky to make it 10-8 right now...
Keep the line moving, Po.
everyone here needs to listen to TooL.
you'll feel better!
think of it as "music therapy" : )
[313] I figure as long as Joey Joe Joe insists on shoe-horning Hughesy into 10 pitch innings, the horse ain't glue yet.
bang away, lulu ...
[317] i can dig music therapy. though i may go more for Swirlies than TooL. is TooL different than Tool?
Bleepin' Halos. I hate them.
damn
[314] Well, it may be obnoxious--I'll grant that. As for "disrespectful" to those who hold a different opinion? How? We have a difference of opinion on this point. Feel free to comment repeatedly about BP usage. I certainly wont be offended or feel that you showed me disrespect because you posit a different position.
For the record, tonight is a perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary BP praxis. A pitcher who is clearly off his game (Bruney) is handed a very sensitive situation, and even when he throws the ball all over the place and gives up a couple of hits, he is allowed to surrender the blast that put the game out of reach. In the old days, the fireman (Mo) would have been brought in that tight jam in the 7th.
Would that have guaranteed vistory? Jo. But it would have limited the chances the game got out of hand. Instead, the LaRussa BP has his two best pitchers watch (and I'm speaking in general,; I know that tonight Hughes was unavailable) while middling hurlers throw the game away.
So, I am sorry you feel offended or disrespected by this. But LaRussa-style BP management is flawed. And that is a general statement, without getting into my disagreements with the specific BP use of the 2009 Yankees.
[318] I agree. But that's it for me tonight.
The boys will get'm tomorrow.
total bollocks.
bullshit loss. no reason for it. : /
[319] nope, same band! they write it: TooL.
they're not for everybody, but they're brilliant gods!
we NEED to take the next 2 from this godforsaken bullshit baseball team.
Andy + CC = 2 Wins !!!
JUst saw the highlights...some nice plays to help save the no-no.
i wasn't around for most of the game, but didn't GI Joe bring Melancon in to a VERY tough situation. he seemed to do the same to Robertson yesterday. might not be the smartest moves...
[322] argue the point. but repeating the same sarcastic remark over and over is rude. The reason why repeating the same sarcastic remark over and over is rude is because it disrespects different opinions. Posting the same remark 10+ times in a blog thread isn't going to change Girardi's mind but just makes the thread less pleasant for others.
as for tonight, it is a perfect example of what is wrong with your thinking. Without a late innings Hughes option, bringing in Mo into a high leverage situation in the 7th is unthinkable because you have no one to get the last 4-6 outs. What makes our pen effective right now is having two top notch late innings guys.
The problem is that you are mixing apples and oranges. Whether or not Hughes should be a late inning, high leverage reliever is one question. Whether or not a closer should be brought in earlier for a high leverage situation is a separate question. Being an 8th inning guy, and whether or not you should use your 8th inning guy in a high leverage situation in the 6th or 7th innings are two separate questions. But you conflate them in your arguments.
In the old days, the fire brand closer would have been brought in the 7th to close the game. But he also would have had a 66% close rate rather than 90% effectiveness that the top closers have today. Without a second and/or third guy you are throwing away at least 1 in 3 games by trying to use a closer for 3 innings.
[326] He didn't have a lot of options. Aceves was burned. Hughes (assuming he could still go two) was unavailable. Joba stunk it up and only got into the fifth. So Girardi rolled the dice and tried to get some length from Melancon. It was that or go to Tomko, I guess.
[324] THanks. I was wondering about that. i'm not a fan. THough I'll admit that i've limitex experience with them. I love lots of distortion and especially feedback. I'm a HUGE Yo La Tengo fan for example. Swirlies I mentioned. Sonic Youth. etc...
[328] yep that is right. And I thought Melancon did pretty good all things considered. Joba and Bruney kind of stunk it up. WHich is a major problem.
We didn't really deserve to win this game. Bruney was bad, but so was Joba, Jeter dropping fly ball, a-rod bad throw to first, etc.. This really was a team loss. Disappointing of course. I'm impressed that we still put ourselves in position to win a couple of times in spite of all of that. We're always grinding.
[327] Without a late innings Hughes option, bringing in Mo into a high leverage situation in the 7th is unthinkable because you have no one to get the last 4-6 outs.
It't too late to go around with you in circles on this topic. But this statement is critical. Who cares about the last 4-6 outs when the game is lost in the 7th? The whole notion that the last few outs warrant some special pitcher--often your best reliever--is so deeply wrong, and I am not the only one who thinks this. This was a topic of conversation the other day and it was pointed out that my position is more or less sabermetric orthodoxy. That doesn;t make it right, but it's not some nutty idea.
As for the save rates, again you must have missed the long discussion the other day. Modern closers have higher save rates because more of their saves are easier. So what? Cliff cited evidence that the contemporary cloer usage has not increased the chances that a team holds a late lead. The game is now lost in 7th instead.
And this in turn has created more pressure to find ANOTHER pitcher or two to use in the eighth inning, regardless of the game situation, instead of putting the best pitchers in the highest leverage scenarios. And so on. It's senseless.
You are correct that my sarcasm has conflated two issues. But in the Yankees case, in my opinion, the situation is conflated. Because of the perverse obsession with the eighth inning--because somehow those three outs are now the most important in the universe--the Yankees have buried a promising young starter and converted him into a 9 pitch specialist. My beef is not that Hughes is in the BP; it's that this move is in my opinion stunting his development.
Yes, he has attacked hitters more, and that is good. But to use him 10 and 12 pitches a clip is a waste of his talent, and risks limiting his usage next year. I am also bothered on some level by how exactly Hughes ended up in the pen. Despite him pitching pretty good--at least as well as Joba is now--he was stuck their so that they could trot Wang out to get pounded. They said at the time that the move was temporary, but Hughes made the mistake of--surprise--being aboe to throw nine pitches very well. So when Wang went down with injury, Hughes was not able to swap back into the rotation--which is what the organization had hinted he would do--because he wasn't stretched.
In my mind, the complete misuse of Hughes (issue 1) is bound up fundamentally with the ridiculous BP construction and usage in contemporary baseball (issue 2) that saves the best reliever for a three run lead against the bottom of the order in the ninth, so that wounded Brian Bruney can piss it away in the seventh.
Finally, what makes the Yankees bullpen effective now is NOT having two top notch late inning guys. It is effective because it has several pitchers who are getting people out, regardless of the innings in which they pitch. As we saw this eveing, having two top notch late inning guys didn't help one jot because lesser pitchers threw the game away.
The best pitchers should be used 1) for the most innings possible relative to their abilities, and 2) in the highest leverage situations.
That is a fact.
[332] Despite him pitching pretty good–at least as well as Joba is now
I meant to say "pitching pretty good in his last four or five starts" (which were pretty good except for one stinker, as I recall).
[327] But he also would have had a 66% close rate rather than 90% effectiveness that the top closers have today. Without a second and/or third guy you are throwing away at least 1 in 3 games by trying to use a closer for 3 innings.
And the evidence shows that you are throwing those games away anyway--it's just that you allow them to be thrown away by lesser pitchers from you now 12 and 13 man staffs.
And one more point. My growing sarcasm tonight is linked to Joba's ineffectiveness. When the season started, the Yankees supposedly had pitching depth--six or seven potential starters on the staff or tucked away in MiL. There were questions marks, of course, but the depth as there.
But Wang has been hurt and quite likely handled poorly. OK, he's out of service. And who do the Yankees have to take his place? Not one of their supposed deep pitching staff, but a reliver Mexican league reclamation project. And now that Joba is struggling, and it looks like he may need some serious work, how can they move him into the pen? Or put him in AAA? Who will take his place--Mitre? Igawa?
It boggles the mind that the Yankees starting pitching depth has been frittered away, and that a man who was once one of the top starting pitching prospects in all of baseball, is unable to step in and spot start because the team has shoe-horned him into the "eighth inning guy" role. I am already getting the sinking feeling that sometime this year Kei Igawa or Sudney Ponson or some other equivalent drek will be called upon, just that Phil Hughes can nail down the eighth inning. The whole sequence of events is simply perverse.
This why I wanted to send down Aceves. In effect, they are two pitchers short, because Aceves can't go and Tomko only has value to his hot wife. This team could be run a lot better.
[335] IPK, Humberto Sanchez, Alan Horne, Christian Garcia, even George Kontos. They say that TINSSAAPP for a reason.
[332] having Hughes as an 8th inning guy has nothing to do with whether or not you bring him or Mo into a 7th inning jam situation. Yet you completely conflate the two making your argument largely unintelligible. Personally, what makes Hughes a real advantage for the 2009 bulpen is that it theoretically makes that kind of bullpen management an option.
First, it isn't important to me that you agree with me. You've made your case. I read it and disagreed with it. So why the need to hammer at it every 10 posts?
Second, the point is that ALL closers across history are more effective when their job is easier. This is exactly where modern bullpen management is right - by trying to make the jobs of all relievers easier and therefore making all relievers more effective. By trying to extend a hall of famer like Goose Gossage to 2-3 innings on a regular basis you achieved several things. But lower success rate is one of the most obvious. Also, you probably shorten their career, limit their possible appearances, and all kinds of other goodies.
Third, who cares if you save the game in the 7th if you lose it in the 8th or 9th inning. The bottom line is that in modern baseball you typically have 3 innings to cover. If the lesser guys have to cover the 7th and blow the game, how is that any better than the 9th? The only difference would be what do you do in a bases loaded situation in the 7th. And then I agree, you use your 9th inning guy or best available option. But you then need back up options for the 8th and 9th inning. This doesn't work unless you have a second high leverage guy, and optimally a third. Btw, there is a difference between losing the lead in the 7th and losing it in the 9th. In the 7th, you still have time to rally offensively.
As for Cliff's stats, and Cliff even acknowledged this, is that the numbers are over broad. This probably isn't a good analogy, but say over a 10 year period there is no proportional difference in driving fatalities. Can you therefore conclude that safe driving classes are an ineffective tool? I don't think so. There are too many other parameters to take into account to draw that conclusion. The same applies for those stats. We need to dig deeper to draw a conclusion and as flawed as the save stat is, it is far more statistically relevant in my opinion. Neither is fully satisfactory though.
More importantly, if with expansion and the steroids era and the offensive explosions of the 1990s and there was no difference between the proportion of games won going into the 9th inning with a lead that suggests to me that modern bullpen management is MORE effective. Because if everything was even, there *would* be a difference.
Hughes has been two totally different pitchers between his starts and bullpen action. The team made a really smart decision by refusing to force him back into the rotation to probably struggle again and throw 5 innings per start. He had one good start. Joba had one good start. The only difference is that Hughes didn't stick around to stink again and he has been dynamite in the bullpen and folks have forgotten how pedestrian he was as a starter this year. Worse yet, if you gamble on moving Hughes back into the rotation now, our bullpen becomes very thin once again. We only have one high leverage person in the bullpen without Bruney performing up to par. In fact, Veras is still probably there.
The notion that the bullpen would have been just as effective sans Hughes isn't realistic. Once Hughes moved to the bullpen and was very successful there it allowed Girardi to use the other relievers more optimally. Coke is not having to go two innings any more. We were able to release Veras. Instead of two crappy guys, we suddenly had one. Bruney has though gone bad for now making it two questionable relievers where we might have had three. When going from game to game, day after day, you now have created depth. That depth isn't there without Hughes there.
I don't know. I guess in short I don't see it as a coincidence that the bullpen has been solid since Hughes moved there. No I don't think he should stay there beyond this year. But I think it fills an important role on this team in a year where we already have one struggling young starter. Obviously Wang's situation complicates things but unless Wang is out long-term I see no reason to revisit it. It'd be nice to be a fly on the wall and know Wang's actual injury status. If it is more serious I might agree with giving Hughes a fly. Actually though I think Aceves would be a better short term 2009 solution. But neither of those questions is really relevant to the other matter of whether or not you want a second high leverage guy in the bullpen (aka 8th inning guy). Yes, we should be more effective in how we use both leverage guy #1 (closer) and #2 (8th inning guy), but that doesn't discount the importance of having them.
I could ramble on about 15 other parameters that I think influence this but it is late and who would want to hear that? This is probably my longest post ever here. I promise it won't happen again. :)
I should add that folks really get a kick out of Hughes pitch counts, but what I find amazing is what those pitch counts are. Hughes has become incredibly efficient. But he wasn't this efficient before at all. He went from ~20 pitches per inning as a starter to ~12-13 pitches per inning. I think this is great experience for him and his eventual role within the organization as a starter. I don't think he can maintain that efficiency as a starter on a regular basis. He adds that 4th best pitch back in or otherwise has to constantly face guys a second and third time in the same game. I don't have confidence that he'd be more than a 5-6 inning guy right now even if he was stretched out. Of course, we don't know that for sure. Which is a fine difference of opinion, but that is all it is.
Back to Joba, I mentioned this earlier and having noticed a decline in Joba's performance the last two games, I think that it should be noted that he is very close to his pitch level for last season. Last year he threw 1,711 pitches. After tonight he has thrown 1,558 pitches. At this time last year he had thrown ~600 pitches less. Red flags are going up for me. He looks like he has a tired arm. I realize this is primarily a subjective observation, but I think it explains the last two starts. and the seemingly declining velocity.
[340] oops. I didn't calculate that 600 pitch number out. And it is 600 pitches less than his total for last year, so more like 450 pitches less than this year. But that isn't exact either. So take it for what it is.