If I were writing copy for the Yankees, I would probably be contractually obligated to refer to the “Yankee legacy” of Chien-Ming Wang and Hideki Matsui, and even Brian Bruney. But I’m not, so instead, like Alex earlier, I’ll just wonder aloud about if, how, and for how long the various exiting Yanks will be remembered.
Wang and Matsui obviously won’t be forgotten anytime soon – both made huge contributions to the Bombers, and had fascinating cultural implications as well (I think each, in their way, helped affirm every New Yorker’s belief that the world does in fact revolve around us). It seems that technically Matsui didn’t quite earn his salary – but in a metaphoric sense, he definitely did. And Alex already touched on the fabled porn collection and the excellent at-bat music, but I also think of the time Matsui broke his wrist on a freakish sliding-catch-gone-wrong, back in 2006. He managed to throw the ball in before collapsing in pain with his wrist held at a gruesome angle, but no sooner was he back from the hospital than he apologized, profusely, to his teammates, the Yankees, and his fans. For having a broken wrist. Try to imagine any American player ever doing that. Hell, try to imagine Ichiro doing that. Yes, I will miss Matsui… and to a slightly lesser extent I will miss his translator, Roger Kahlon, who (now it can be said) is one good-looking dude.
I’m not sure how much to eulogize Chien-Ming Wang’s New York career – because, who knows? He may yet be back, if not next season then somewhere down the road. He’s still young enough that if his shoulder actually heals properly, he could pitch for years and years. That’s the optimistic view of course, but even if he’s never again a top-flight starter, Wang’s isn’t a truly sad story: he threw two-plus excellent Major League seasons, which is a lot more than most people get to do, and became a truly massive and beloved celebrity in his home country, which ditto. But still.
Anyway, it seems pretty clear to me that in ten, twenty, or thirty years Yankee blogs (or whatever has replaced them) will still mention Matsui and Wang from time to time, but I wonder about another suddenly ex-Yank, Brian Bruney. I wrote enough game summaries featuring the guy that I’m certain I’ll remember the name, barring any degenerative brain diseases, plus I spoke to him a few times during my brief tenure in the clubhouse. How often will I think about him, though, as the years go by? And what about the average fan? The Yankees were able to snatch Bruney from the Diamondbacks because Arizona felt he had some attitude problems, was the word on the street back in ’06, and whether or not he ever really overcame those I couldn’t say; he had a bit of a meathead look about him, but a sensitive streak too.
Bruney had good games and bad, but it’s hard for me to think of any really iconic moments – there’s not really a Bruney equivalent of Chien-Ming Wang’s virtuoso performance against the Mets at the Stadium, or Matsui’s playoff heroics and walk-off homers. Such is the nature of middle relief, I suppose. I can’t pretend to have any strong feelings about the guy, but I spent so many cumulative hours watching him pitch that maybe I should. Is there anything bittersweet about the fact that he will likely be greeted among baseball fans, upon reemerging from the swamps of memory, mostly with indifference?
What do you guys think – in 2039 or so, will there be any spring days when your fancy lightly turns to thoughts of Brian Bruney?
very well written, per usual, emma.
as far as bruney goes - shit, i remember him from when he came up w/ the snakes...but for the life of me, i simply cannot believe that he was with us for FOUR freakin' seasons!!! i thought it was half that...
i'll think of matsui quite a bit, wang sometimes and ba ba bruney close to never.
i think the translator dude looks good just 'coz he's standing next to godzilla! hell, i'd even look good next to him! ; )
Brian Bruney, is God willing, the last of the Kyle Farnsworth era of Yankee relievers. Since 2005 or so, one of my biggest jokes was that while other teams built a bullpen around ground balls or strikeouts, the Yankees built a bullpen around walks. If a reliever threw relatively hard, he was snatched up regardless of how horrendous his control was. Farnswoth, Bruney, Veras, Vizcaino, and so on and so forth. (This can also be referred to as the Michael Kay Fetish Squad)
This year, after ridding some of the deadweight early (Veras and Ramirez) and when Robertson started to settle down, we had a late inning bullpen in Aceves, Hughes and Robertson that no only had some kind of idea where their fastball was going, but *gasp* had other quality pitches as well. Instead of the Brian Bruney fastball/fasterball, we had people who could throw a hook to complement a good fastball, or at the very least, locate all their pitches to make up for less than great stuff.
Now, apparently the Yankees are high on Michael Dunn, so this could all go down the crapper next year, but I think in 2039, Brian Bruney and his ilk will be looked at as what was wrong with the mid-late 2000 Yankees.
Yeah props to Emma; one of the best pickups for a sports blog, btw...
[1] I feel kinda the same way; I think you feel that way because he missed extended portions of most of his years here; I bet cumulatively he pitched for maybe a little more than two years as expected of a middle reliever. Like his good and bad games, his tenure here was start and stop. He showed flashes when he first came in, but you could see he not only needed a lot of work, but an attitude adjustment. To his credit, he made a noticeable effort to improve, but then whenever he seemed to be on a roll, he'd get knocked down by some injury that also set his development back.
I think in terms of memorable middle relievers, most of us will likely think first of Jeff Nelson and Mike Stanton in their primes, and Graeme Lloyd as the top specialist of memory, while Ramiro Mendoza was probably the premier long man. On the bottom of the memorable list would likely be Randy Choate. If you look at Scott Proctor as the mean of these recent-era middle relievers (and Kyle Farnsworth as the outlier), then Brian Bruney is somewhere between Randy Choate and Scott Proctor. He got to where you actually counted on him as a viable late-inning reliever, then BLAM! injured again. At least it helped shine the light on Phil Hughes, and he was lights out for a while; but he's rotation-bound, while Bruney was simply not.
In the end, he just wasn't as good as he could have been, and he could have been pretty damn good. I would say that having Bruney wasn't a bad thing, but ultimately he won't be missed.
*That said, it should be left unsaid, but I'll say it because someone will otherwise criticize me not mentioning it, but Mo is God of All Relievers, so there's no point in putting him in this scale; it's like trying to measure infinity >;)
[3] Of recent memory, I should qualify this as. My memory gets fuzzier when you start talking about Lee Gutterman and his ilk, and I'm not even gonna touch the Sparky Lyle issue...
Brian Bruney, is God willing, the last of the Kyle Farnsworth era of Yankee relievers. Since 2005 or so, one of my biggest jokes was that while other teams built a bullpen around ground balls or strikeouts, the Yankees built a bullpen around walks
It has been like that for as long as I can remember. Eric Plunk, Greg Cadaret, Steve Trout, etc...
[3] Always liked Ramiro Mendoza..did he ever get a big payday before retiring? I know he tanked in Boston...
Matsui's legacy with the Yankees is beyond cemented. Even had he not won the WS MVP, he would have been a significant part of this decade's history. Should he choose to hang around the States once he retires, he'll always be warmly received at Yankee Stadium. It would have been nice for the Yankees to extend him one more season, but until the rest of the plan unfolds, it's hard to really know if the Yankees made a mistake.
[2] That's kind of a harsh assessment. Bruney had his troubles with control, but he did pitch rather well in his four seasons, particularly in 2006 and 2008. Considering that the Yankees didn't have to give up anything to get him and paid him very little, I don't see why you'd attach a negative storyline to Bruney's tenure with the Yankees.
I agree on Bruney; the guy cost us next to nothing and had some good games. To me he represents the move away from the Farnsworth type signings. He represented a low risk investment who paid some dividends. He lengthened the pen, he wanted the ball and he could could get batters out. He made a mistake this year by not fessing up to a sore wing because he wanted to gut it out and pitch. In the pantheon of great sins I'm not sure Bruney is even an honorable mention. From my perspective he's the kind of in-season acquisition Ca$hman should always be investigating.
Gonna really miss Wang and Matsui. It will feel especially strange seeing Matsui hit for someone else. Knowing him, I suspect it will also be somewhat nerve wracking if runners are on and the game is on the line.
Great title, Emma. Trust a Yalie. Is it Byron?
(I have to admit my first thought was, Is that a line from "Forever Young"?)
[9] Tennyson, though I have to admit I thought first of "In the spring a young man's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of Brian Bruney" and then had to look up which poem I was mangling ("Locksley Hall," it turns out, which is way longer and weirder than I remembered).
What I like about Bruney was when he came into camp 20 lbs lighter and in far better shape. This showed a renewed commitment and a willingness to change. High marks in my book.
And sorry to change the subject but..........
ShitFuckFuckShit!
"While the newspaper reported the Cardinals' proposal (to Holliday) is worth around $16 million a season, the team is hoping to sweeten the deal with a longer-term contract. The guaranteed years could be for as many as eight seasons, according to the newspaper."
Ouch!!! 8/$128? That hurts!
On a side note:
I find in interesting how 'well received' Matsui's love for pornography was. It was viewed as funny and harmless. Being Japanese, I guess he got a pass. I wonder if a reporter was doing a locker room interview with a Black player, and said Black player opened his locker and a ton of porn fell out. Would it be considered harmless?
Now hold your breath....
Imagine...
Just imagine...
if the player with a locker fiull of porn being interview were AROD!!!!!!
America. Land of the Puritans!
Tuesday, December 15, 2009 Boston Herald:
The source said Bay expects to make a final decision in the next couple of days, with the Mets, Angels and Mariners the front-runners for his services. However, lurking in the weeds are Yankees, who have reached out to Bay’s representatives to express their interest, the source said.
The Yankees are not believed to have made an offer, and it was unclear last night exactly how strong their interest is, but it goes without saying that in matters of free agency, they never can be discounted.
I honestly would be dumbfounded if Cash went up to the level St Louis has reached with Holliday. I think it is a stupid number of years (though not a stupid annual). He is not a player at Teixeira's level. It would NOT astonish me if they did make an offer to Bay at same $ level but 5 years. Nor would I be surprised if Cash takes Damon at 20 million for 2 and gambles on a reclamation project pitcher and folds his hands till the season starts (maybe one reliever). I think they do want Damon, I think Boras knows that if Halladay and Bay join Matsui and Cameron as signed, Damon gets a bit extra because he waited.
I'm still bummed about the Matsui 1 yr 6.5 million.
[0]
Matsui: will be (relatively) long remembered.
Wang: will be soon forgotten. He was very good for two seasons, but that's not long enough to secure a place in the collective memory.
Bruney: middle reliever = unremembered.
[11] You think people would criticize ARod cause he had porn in his locker? I really don't think so. I find that porn is one of the more culturally acceptable things in this country, a guilty hidden pleasure that most people have enjoyed one time or another. I'd like to see the reporter that writes a scathing article about ARod and porn, if porn were suddenly to fall out of his locker. He/she would be a total hypocrite. The only reporter I can think that'll do that is Mike Lupica, but he already feels inadequate standing in front of mirror. So he doesn't really count. Lupica is more amoeba like anyway.
Plus, porn is the one thing that most males can relate to. Sports are male dominated, so I doubt that would hurt ARod in any way. Instead of concocting these crazy scenarios with ARod, go yank the OYF chain to some good porn. :-)
[0] Awesome job, Emma.
I'll most remember Matsui for 2 reasons:
1) He was flat out awesome, clutch, and classy (even when he guessed wrong and swung over pitches to create weak grounders).
2) He was the favorite Yankee of two wives of mine (true story).
I completely hate this, and I know we have to wait to see how all else unfolds.
However I'm really worried we're now going to have to way overpay for Holliday or Bay or Damon, when we could've had Matsui for say $7-8mm. Ugh.
[10] Tennyson. Too bad there isn't some way of just plugging the string of words into an internets device and finding out who wrote it. That way I wouldn't have to ask, and show off my ignorance of Romantic poets.
The Red Sox nab Cameron, two years $15M.
Yeah, I wouldn't want the Yankees to compete for Holliday at that [11] level. Looks like it's Bay, Damon, or just play the cards we have. I would not be upset to land Jason Bay, as long as it's four years or fewer. Damon at the Cameron price would also be fine.
I don't know if JD takes 2/$20. Once Bay and Holliday are off the market, JD's value goes way up. He might get 3/$33 or more????
I agree that $16m AAV for Holliday is not bad. In 2 years, if the economy comes back, that will look like a good price. But EIGHT years??? And what about Pujols? He is signed thru 2011, and then what? At 32, what does he get? 6/$135m? More?
St. Louis is spending some big bucks. $40m/yr from 2012-2017 for 2 players.
You think people would criticize ARod cause he had porn in his locker?
Do you think people would criticize ARod for sunbathing in Central Park?
[12] The Herald? I'd trust (OK, I can't say the first 6 things that popped into my head) speech coming from a dog's rear end before I trusted the Herald.
I will miss Godzilla Matsui, and he will be long remembered, I have no doubt. I do worry about him playing the OF, but good luck to him.
Wang, I think, will be recalled somewhat - and who knows, we may yet see him in pinstripes again.
Bruney will be remembered by those of us who still recall, with some fondness, the Rich Monteleone's of the Yankees' bullpen.
[17] Cameron at that price is a great play for the Sox. Pitching and defense . . .
I think the Yanks will benefit more from Bay than Damon at this point, with Bay being the primary DH who can (unlike Matsui) occasionally play LF. Yes he costs more, but since we're talking about a DH, I like his bat more than I like Damon's. 4 years would be OK too.
[18] Rumor has it that Pujols was not willing to talk about an extension with the Cards unless the team showed him they were willing to invest the big bucks to compete. I have no doubt that the Holliday offer is all about Pujols - and I have no doubt, if Holliday signs with the Cards, Pujols will sign an extension with the Cards too. With Pujols, they'll put butts in the seats and they can win it all - they'll gladly pay him.
[19] Com'on, I'm not criticizing him for that, but he did look a little douchie there. I don't know, if I had that kind of fame I probably wouldn't have done that. It was a total 'wtf are you doing moment', at least for me it was. I didn't criticize him for that, but did I shake my head? Yeah.
It's not the same thing if you get pictured sunbathing on a beach or boat, I think there are distinctions we need to draw here. I recognize that some people look at ARod as a victim, when it comes to the big bad media from NY. I'm not hating on the guy, I love what he's done for the Yanks but I think some of the criticism of ARod has been fair, and there are times it has been excessive. I don't remember him being criticized for sunbathing anyway. I know people had a similar reaction as mine, "why A-Rod? why?". But that's not criticism. That's just not being able to read a room.
I think porn is something that most humans can relate to, so I don't think ARod would get punished for loving porn.
[11] I have to trust that Cash knows what he's doing. As I suggested before, there is an interesting option next season that may be more desirable than the options now, and we know he's not afraid to gamble; a step back in 2008 proved to be two steps forward in 2009. At any rate, it's still too early to make any solid judgments about these moves, because I don't believe we're done.
[23] I'm not hating on him either. Nor am I coming after you, I'm just trying to point out that with Rodriguez, all bets are off; he'll catch heat no matter what he does. Wrong, right or indifferent, that's the way it is.
While I personally agree with your views, you are not being realistic.
"You think people would criticize ARod cause he had porn in his locker? "
I think the MSM would go CRAZY... for weeks. We would be hearing 'hard ARod' jokes for years. Do you remember what happened when a tiny part of Janet Jackson's breast was exposed for like ONE second?
"I find that porn is one of the more culturally acceptable things in this country"
Really? Have you ever heard the Senate debate when a pornograpy issue comes up? You know how many people associate porn and violence against women? (I don't... but MANY, MANY do)
"I’d like to see the reporter that writes a scathing article about ARod and porn, if porn were suddenly to fall out of his locker. He/she would be a total hypocrite."
A hypocite? In THIS country? Ya mean like the Gay congressman who pushes anti-Gay legislation? Or an entire country that freaks at the idea of Gay marriage?
Ya know, studies have show that more then 50% of married folk have admitted to being unfaithful. So, it should be NO big deal when Letterman, Tiger or a Congressman has an affair, right?
"Plus, porn is the one thing that most males can relate to."
How about you take some hard core Japanese porn to your workplace and show it around to the guys. Think there will be any consequences??????
"go yank the OYF chain to some good porn. :-)"
THANK GOD FOR THESE HERE INTERNETS!
I'll remember Matsui for being more of a Paul O'Neill than anyone ever gave him credit for. And the Opening Day Grand Slam...and being on the road to an ALCS MVP through 3 games in '04...and Joe Torre dealing with Japanese media....and his "wife"....and never being able to keep his hat on when he played the field....and Game 6. Yes, I think I'll remember Matsui.
I'll remember Wang for that rainy Saturday afternoon at the stadium in April '05 when Jaret Wright's shoulder fell off and the "youth movement" began....I'll remember not being able to fathom having a "young ace"....and "Brandon Webb of the AL"....and Joe Torre dealing with Taiwanese media....and 19 in '06 and '07....and defending him against his critics...and realizing those critics might have been right after the '07 ALDS...and that miserable afternoon in Houston. Yeah, I'll remember Wanger.
I'll remember Bruney for picking a fight with a possible Hall of Fame reliever and having indefensibly bad tattoos. But I probably won't forget him either.
[25] I'm just saying that porn is one of the things he won't catch heat for.
ARod did an A+ job this year with the media, his quotes, understanding that he is really famous and that a lot of things that would apply to others don't necessarily translate the same way, with respect to him.
I definitely feel things have eased up a lot for ARod. Even his quotes from Papi's golf event in the D.R. were awesome. I feel we all talking the same language, he's not blaming stuff on being biracial and good looking - that turns people off. That ish turns people off, at least it does for me.
You don't think things have definitely turned for the better for ARod?
By the By.....
Assuming that Cashman is serious about payroll controll...
Next year (after 2010), Jeter and Mo are the only monies that might come off the books. Chances are Jeter is re-signed, and I'll hope at significantly less then his current $22m... maybe $15? If Mo does come off the books, we have about $22m off the books. However, Cano and Swisher get significant raises, and Melky, Phil and Joba all get Arb, which should cost us several million. And of course, in this scenerio, we need an impact closer.
My point is Cashman may be looking ahead one year, knowing he has very little cash to play with for the FA class of 2011.
If money, especially over the next 6 year, were not an issue, they we would already have Holliday signed.
This is why I feel that Phil and Joba and Montero and any other average-or-better kids are so important to our future. I may be wrong, but there is a limit to the number of high priced players we can sign. Top FAs are always too expensive and get too long contracts. Our big mony guys must be supplimented with cheap players... who are good enough to be part of 'a dynasty'.
"You don’t think things have definitely turned for the better for ARod?"
Of course I do!
But they haven't found any porn in his locker (yet?... now that Katie is gone...)
[28] Only because he had a big postseason. The coverage has more or less been the same, what with the Roberts book, the steroids issue, the mirror photo shoot, the centaur crack, and whatnot.
Time will tell whether things have changed, but I guess things have improved since 2006.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the centaur. You have to admit that's pretty hilarious. The dude is seriously batshit crazy.
Good stuff, Emma. Shortly after Bruney came to the Yanks, he won me over whiffing Vlad with his sick slider. Even though he was unknown to hitters at the time, not too many relievers have the kind of voodoo it takes to make a hitter like Vlad bail on strike 3.
He was never consistent enough to be great, but he was a bulldog. I don't think there's anything bittersweet about being remembered this way, or even forgotten. He made about $5 million dollars as a Yankee, and earned a championship ring. Not bad for about 150 innings of work. Even if fans don't remember Bruney 30 years from now, that doesn't invalidate his years as a Yankee.
[0]
Awesome job as usual Ms. Span!
============
I wonder what would happen if Selena Roberts was found to have a stash of porno in her desk?
[0]
Here is the piece from which the title is quoted ...
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/hh/locksley.htm
[34] It would mean she covets A Rod !!!!! (ba dum bump!)
From HanginChad at Lohud:
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Chapman is the top international player on the market. He’s a 22-year-old lefty who has hit 102 mph with his fastball, and he could be in the big leagues sooner rather than later, but I’ve talked to one executive who feels Chapman is still too raw to pitch in the big leagues right away. His command isn’t where it needs to be, and when Chapman defected from Cuba, the ESPN.com article announcing the move called his secondary pitches “average” and said there are questions about his maturity."
Sounds like Farnsworth on Red Bull.
The bullpen built around walks .... Yankee relievers 1995-2009 by BB/9, minimum 40 games relieved in season
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/ShuTU
[37]
Sounds like Nuke LaLoosh on Dos Equis ...
[32] No doubt. If anything, I'm more amused at the level of coverage that he has gotten since he came to NY. Deserved or not, he has done some stupidly entertaining things, and has gotten called out for some run of the mill transgressions (seeing a sports psychologist, the stripper & "HA!" incidents)
[40]
I'd give him a pass on the sports psychologist, as the Yankees team I believe employs one, as do many other teams.
Here's an angle I never heard discussed .... does Matsui appear to be "gentlemanly, dignified" in part because his limited English precluded him from more "foot in mouth" possibilities.
That wouldn't preclude him from running off with Madonna, but ...
On the flip side, Ichiro has irked many media types with his aloof attitude toward them.
Comments?
RAB has a nice post on our curent LF situation.
If I might quote Joe from RAB:
“Reports early yesterday suggested the Red Sox had enough medical red flags to justify not going five years for the outfielder, who had shoulder surgery in 2003 and knee surgery in 2007.”
If the Red Sox, a team that knows a lot about Bay, won’t give him five
years, why would the Yankees?
Gotta agree. He could be GOJB in 3 years.
So...... what decent OFers are available next year?
And many at RAB are hot on Delgato for DH. Thoughts?
[43]
Free agent OF/DH for next year ...
Left fielders
Eric Byrnes (35)
Carl Crawford (29)
David DeJesus (31) - $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
Adam Dunn (31)
Willie Harris (33)
Jason Kubel (29) - $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
Jason Michaels (35)
Manny Ramirez (39)
Center fielders
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Jody Gerut (33)
Willie Harris (33)
Andruw Jones (34)
Mark Kotsay (35)
Jason Michaels (35)
Corey Patterson (31)
Willy Taveras (29)
Right fielders
Willie Bloomquist (33)
Jose Guillen (35)
Brad Hawpe (32) - $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
Gabe Kapler (35)
Magglio Ordonez (37) - $15MM club option vests with 135 starts or 540 plate appearances in 2010
Jayson Werth (32)
Designated hitters
Pat Burrell (34)
Jason Kubel (29) - $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
Hideki Matsui (37)
David Ortiz (35) - $12.5MM club option
[42] I mean there's definitely something to it, Matsui speaks limited English and he's "stoic"....Ichiro speaks limited English and he's "aloof". But sportswriters talking in some kind of weird code is nothing new, just ask "scrappy" David Eckstein or "mercurial" Gary Sheffield.
[43] I wouldn't put Delgado in the Yanks dugout if he paid us to be there. Hate the guy for goin in the tank on Willie. You may not think he did, but I do and won't be convinced otherwise.
Here's a thought on the Cards offer to Holliday: if we agree that it's as much about making a statement to Pujols as it is about Holliday, then what happens if the Cards get outbid?
Does the enormous offer, even if topped, send enough of a signal to Pujols that the Cards are serious about winning long term that he signs the extension even without Holliday? If so, then it's an interesting strategic gamble for them.
If not, then they lose Holliday and likely Pujols down the road.
Here's a shoutout for Matsui's translator. I concur that he is indeed, good looking.
Thanks Emma as usual. In the end, I think that while we'll remember Wang and even Bruney, Matsui's name will have the longest impact. If Wang gets back to himself (and I say "if"), then he still has a story to tell, but it might not be with us. Matsui told a story and ended it with some serious RBIs during a WS and an MVP to boot. I'll miss him.
I want to think that Cashman has a plan that has yet to unfold. When they want someone, they will overpay to insure that we'll get that person. Who that person is? I don't think it's Delgado. Maybe I'm dreaming.
Emma, what were you doing in the clubhouse? Was this for the Voice?
[45] Ichiro is highly intelliegent and speaks English fluently. I'm not sure if he is aloof, or just bummed that Seattle has done shit since he has been on the team.
[47] Regardless of what happens with Holliday, if the Cards let Pujos go, there would be riots in St. Louis. The man is the post 1950's Babe Ruth. He is a Cardinal for life.
What about if the Yanks go 5/$90 for Holliday? That leaves him 3 years to make up $38m, he gets to wear Pinstrips, and probably collects a few rings.
Because of the ARod, Teix and CC contracts, it is the years 2014 thru 2016 that are the most dangerous.
[48] Delgato is just a cheap solution for DH, who, if healthy, could produce well in YSIII. Same with Thome. As I've said, I don't believe Cashman wants a one-dimensional DH type, but he may have to settle as there is not a lot left.
Is Holliday the only high impact FA left?
JD is a better fielder then Bay, and Bay's bat won't play great in YSIII. However, Bay's 2009 Home/AWay splits were fine, and he actually slugged a bit better Away.
[49] Yup, someone (you?) suggested that type of offer - fewer years but higher AAV. Maybe we do 5 plus a vesting option or two, which I understand is what the Cards offer contains. If he vests, based on PAs, then at least we can presume he's healthy enough to be out there, and thus worth the money even if it somewhat hamstrings our payroll flexibility.
Re: Pujols...I don't know. I mean if the Cards don't get Holliday, Pujols may be disgusted enough to walk at any price. I don't have any sense - and I mean zero - for the guy, his personality, his inclinations, loyalty, etc. Just haven't paid enough attention beyond the absolutely gaudy stats.
But since he's now done it all as a stat machine, it's time to collect rings. Similar to where ARod was until recently :)
That list of FA OFers for next year, thanks Dianne [44], makes Holliday look a lot more palatable.
[49] The man is the post 1950’s Babe Ruth. He is a Cardinal for life.
An interesting comparison, given that Babe Ruth, who was the Babe Ruth of his day, was nether a Red Sox nor a Yankee for life!
[31] The coverage has more or less been the same, what with the Roberts book, the steroids issue, the mirror photo shoot, the centaur crack, and whatnot.
Aside from the relatively lightweight centaur thing, all that happened before his season even started. I think things changed significantly from then to the playoffs and then after the playoffs he got another boost. In fact, the centaur thing is testament to how far he'd come; it amounted to gentle, perhaps even affectionate (!!!) ribbing.
I don't know why anyone is too worried about getting an OF. The Yankees really just need a DH. The outfield is fine.
[55] I'm not sure I see the distinction. They need (well, "need") to replace the loss of Damon and Matsui's offense. Garanderson has done some of that, but they really could use another thumper. Whether that guy sits on the bench and then bats every couple of innings, or whether he stands in LF makes no real difference.
Was Delgado still on the disabled list at the end of the season?
Olney just tweeted:
Sentiment within some corners of NYY organization is that TOR got less talent than what they would've required from the Yankees in a deal.
That doesn't surprise me.
Delgato posted a .871 OPS in 2008, while both playing the field and hitting at Shea. I don't know what his $$$ value is, as he was paid $12m last year. If healthy, he is still an elite bat. Don't know his health situation. His last game played was May 12. Had a .900+ OPS at that point.
[56] There are more choices if you don't need someone to field a specific position, that's the difference.
[59] Yeah but he plays a position at which the Yanks don't especially need relief. Plus he went in the tank on Willie and I'll never forgive that, nor do I want him on my team.
I'm still concerned that Granderson + ? in 2010 is < Matsui + Damon in 2009, even factoring in the improved D that Granderson brings. I totally agree with Monkeypants [56] on this.
[58] I saw that Olney tweet too, and yeah, not surprising.
[60] True. Though "ability to player corner OF" is not *that* limiting in the job description. Overall, I agree with you. They should look to sign a bat and worry about the position later.
[61] Yes. I'm not entirely sold on the Granderson thing, but at this point I'm hoping for the best and trusting the Yankee brain trust.
I just hope they don't decide to settle for both A] Melky as a legitimate LF and B] DH as a rotating old folks home. One is acceptable, maybe, but both? And imagine of Granderson really is on the downside, too!
One thing in Granderson's favor is that he hit 30 homeruns playing in a not-so-homerun friendly ballpark.My guess, is that his production will improve in YS III. So, really we need an off the bench big bat, someone to replace Matsui.
Cashman is going all Bubba Crosby by saying that Carmen (Juan) Miranda can always DH.. I don't believe that for a second.
Well... Juan did have an .850+ OPS in Scranton. Not sure about his splits, but he may be an OK alternative again RHP. He did have 19 HRs his last year at AAA, so maybe he plays OK at YSIII.
I am against a rotating DH UNLESS we sign a stud bat for LF, which does not look like is happening. However, if we do get Holliday, saving $5-6m on a DH is prudent. It should at least be exciting to see Montero in September.
[62] I just hope they don’t decide to settle for both A] Melky as a legitimate LF and B] DH as a rotating old folks home. One is acceptable, maybe, but both?
Yeah my stance is thumbs up to A and thumbs down to B. I don't think Melky is what you'd want in LF but he's fine for center, and conversely Granderson would be fine production for left, so swapping them one way or the other isn't a big deal.
Getting someone who can play the OF is a plus, hence Damon, but it's not necessary. The Yanks can rest players at DH but hopefully when that's not happening, there's still a potent bat in there.
I can't believe we didn't sign Matsui for $6.5M for one year...no way you replace that productivity as efficiently...no to mention his "clutchness"...what irks me the most is we didn't sign him because we want to give Knucklehead Posada some bats as DH...other than Jeter no other Yankee came thru under pressure like Matsui...he will be missed. So far the Red Sucks are outmanuevering us this off season.