"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

They’re Saying “Proooo-ve It”

Javier Vazquez has made just one start in the Bronx since being reacquired by the Yankees, and it ended with a bunch of blockheads booing what was actually a fairly solid start that just happened to come opposite a fantastic performance by the Angels’ Joel Piñeiro. What they were booing wasn’t really Vazquez’s performance that day, but his disaster start in Tampa Bay the turn before and the back-breaking grand slam he allowed to Johnny Damon in Game Seven of the 2004 ALCS, Vazquez’s last appearance in Yankee pinstripes. Never mind the absurdity of blaming Vazquez for the Yankees’ collapse in 2004 (or even for the four runs allowed on the Damon slam given that Vazquez was exactly the worst pitcher for Joe Torre to have brought in after Kevin Brown had loaded the bases). We all know there’s a thriving contingent of mouth-breathing jackasses in every ballpark, particularly those in the northeast. What worries me is that this afternoon’s game looks primed to dump more blood into the water as Vazquez is going up against one of the game’s hottest pitchers in White Sox lefty Jon Danks.

Vazquez, as we all know all too well by this point, has been struggling with his mechanics in the early going this year, rushing his delivery and thus causing his arm to drag, his slider to flatten out, and robbing his fastball of both location and velocity. Though he did pick up a win against the punchless A’s in Oakland, he has yet to turn in a quality start, and in three of his four outings he has missed both the innings and runs qualifications for that statistic. I still have faith that Vazquez will get on track, but more abuse from the home fans will only make the allegations of Eddie Whitson syndrome a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for Danks, he’s the real deal. All of his four starts this season have been quality, and he’s averaging nearly 7 1/3 innings and barely more than one earned run per game. He leads the American League in WHIP (0.86), and boasts a 1.55 ERA and 4.33 K/BB. Like CC Sabathia, Danks has been hit-lucky in the early going (.224 opponent’s average on balls in play), but also like CC, he has the stuff to survive a correction. I’m willing to believe the 25-year-old is making the leap this year.

Danks faced the Yankees just once last year, allowing four runs in six innings but picking up a win. The Yankee who has faced him most is former Tiger Curtis Granderson, who has gone 1-for-19 with no walks against the lefty. Granderson is hitting .172/.200/.242 against lefties this year, but Nick Johnson is the man taking a seat to make room for Marcus Thames in the lineup. I understand not wanting Thames in the outfield behind a flyballer like Vazquez, but if Randy Winn doesn’t start this game, he shouldn’t be on this team.

Nick Swisher hits second. Jorge Posada is back behind the plate.

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Game Thread

Share: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email %PRINT_TEXT


Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 12:29 pm

I understand not wanting Thames in the outfield behind a flyballer like Vazquez, but if Randy Winn doesn’t start this game, he shouldn’t be on this team.

This. Seeing Winn in for Granderson wouldn't make me happy, per se, but it'd make me feel like we were putting our best team out there (given Nick's struggles and Thames defensive ineptitude).

2 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:09 pm

Dear Lord, is Vizquel still playing? Wow, good on him.

3 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 1:11 pm

I'm happy that Posada's okay. Whew.
Although I must say I am much less anxious about the day he can't play the position anymore than I was a couple of years ago. Romine and Montero are both toooptimism-inducing.

4 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:12 pm

[0] Nick Johnson is the man taking a seat to make room for Marcus Thames in the lineup.

As I wrote last night and this morning in other threads, Girardi has lost faith in NJ, so the Stick (On His Shoulder) is now earmarked as the first guy to sit.

[2] And batting lead-off, apparently. Oh that wily Ozzie Guillen.

5 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:12 pm

I hate Javy.

6 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 1:12 pm

Good lord.
Javy, meet Andruw. Oh, you've met?

7 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:14 pm

[3] We'll see if he's OK. Ever since the Sheffield injured-notinjured-injured fiasco, and the three-catcher shuffle from a couple of years ago, I'm always very un-tooptimistic about Yankees' injuries.

That said, I agree with you about Romine and Montero---very, very tooptimistic indeed.

8 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:16 pm

That was a strike.

9 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:16 pm

[5][6] You can't really blame Javy there. I mean, you have to expect a letdown after escaping Vizquel and Beckham to start the inning.

10 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 1:17 pm

[7] You're being toopessimistic about the injuries.
Wow, that's not nearly as good a word as "toooptimistic".

11 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:18 pm

[9] LOL.

Normally I won't mind a 1st inning HR, but Javy hasn't shown anything this year, and wasn't good his last go-round with the Yankees. My patience is wearing thin.

12 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 1:19 pm

Vazquez wanted his ERA to hold steady. Good work! Any chance we score ten runs today?

13 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:19 pm

[4] I'm just going to put this out there, though I have no idea why Nick is struggling: remember all that in spring training about how they were working with him to harness more power and I worried that doing such might not be the best idea in the world for a guy who was doing so well in the spring hitting the left-center field gap?

Well, here we are.

Someone should at least ask him if the pressure to hit home runs is at all responsible. Of course he'll say no, but still, someone should start to ask questions.

14 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:21 pm

Ok, the ball's not carrying to left center today.

15 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:21 pm

It's May, Mark.

16 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:22 pm

[13] I think anyone should start asking NJ any questions before do the same to Teix. Why is there no similar hue-and-cry or hand-wringing over Teixera, who has been demonstrably worse this season than NJ?

17 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:23 pm

[16] By all means, I just wouldn't know what questions to ask him.

18 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:25 pm

[16] But to our question about the hue-and-cry, it's obviously because Teix has established a reputation as a bad April hitter and insodoing had basically inoculated himself from questions about his April performance. Lowered expectations and all that.

19 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:25 pm

your question

20 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:28 pm

Kim's giving the low-down about Teix right now.

21 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:28 pm

[17] I wouldn't know what to ask NJ. My point is, as I'm sure you know, there is little reason to start asking either of them questions. They've gotten off to slow starts. In Teix's case, this is his typical pattern (but this year it seems a bit worse). In NJ's case, he's striking out more but he is still getting on base---the hits will come.

Unfortunately, the narrative is already constructed, so NJ will get benched and field questions because he is too passive or whatever. Meanwhile, not an eyebrow is raised about the rest of the slumping lineup.

22 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:28 pm

[19][20] Blimey! I don't have TeeVee for the game--what's the scoop?

23 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:30 pm

Yay! Gameday claims that Javy finally threw a pitch over 90 mph!

24 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:32 pm

[22] Meh, the usual generic stuff, mostly, "If I knew why I struggled in April, I wouldn't struggle in April."

He also said something about how you don't judge a team after the first month so why judge a player after the first month.

Damn it!
Teix's foot got pulled off the bag.

25 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:36 pm

Thank heavens for Juan Pierre...on the other team. But now Javy has to face Vizquel.

26 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:37 pm

Well, that could have been MUCH worse.

27 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:38 pm

Only one run? I'll take that.

28 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:39 pm


29 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:42 pm

So, when Javy gets bumped from the rotation, who will take his place: Joba, Lucky, Ace, or McCallister?

30 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:43 pm

[28] Heh hehehh. Indeed.

31 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:45 pm

C'mon Curtis ... make me and Cliff look silly!

32 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:46 pm

[29] My vote is for Vulture, but it'd be it was the Meat Tray.

33 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:48 pm



34 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:49 pm

I also hate Ozzie Guillen.

35 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:51 pm

[33] ?

[34] What's going on?

36 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:52 pm

[35] They made Vasquez change mitts for some reason. Because it was two-toned or something.

37 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:54 pm

[35] Who made the last out in the bottom of the 2nd?

Whohoooo ... 91mph on that last FB!

38 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:55 pm

[36] Awesome. Very Billy Martin. Except Martin would have waited until some more critical moment.

39 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:55 pm

Damn ... 92!!!

40 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:56 pm

[37] Ahh.

41 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:56 pm


42 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:57 pm

OK, at some point you simply stop pitching to the man, right Javy?

43 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:57 pm

[38] I know, why fuck with this guy, of all people, in no kind of situation?

44 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 1:57 pm

[41] Yup.

45 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 1:57 pm

Javy's got NO fastball command OR control.

Just awful right now.

46 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 1:59 pm

[41] As much as I have little affection for Mitre, who has epically failed up, even his stinkitude of last season would be an improvement right now.

47 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 1:59 pm

"He missed the entire length of the plate," observes Leiter.

48 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:00 pm

Of course.

49 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:01 pm

"Why don't they do a pitching change already?"--my seven-year-old.

50 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:01 pm

I was tooptimistic about signing Javy, and I still think it will pay off over the long hall. But he's got to be taken out of the rotation for a turn or two, right?

51 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:04 pm

He's killing us but what can you do? Send him down to work out his troubles?
He's albatrossed about our necks and that's just how it is.

52 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:06 pm

[51] Of course he can't be sent down. He gets sent to the BP, just like Wang was sent last year, and Moose was a couple of years ago.

53 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:06 pm

Yes, but a no-hitter actually means something. The cycle is simply a novelty act.

54 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:06 pm

Oink, Oink, Oink!!!

55 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:06 pm

There goes Gardner, hitting 'em where they are!

56 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:08 pm

[52] Yeah, but does that actually work in turning a guy around?
In other words, is it a way to help him return to starting or is it just a demotion?

57 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:09 pm

Derek's taking more pitches of late.

58 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:09 pm

Well, at least it's clear that Gardner's going to get more chances against LHP.

59 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:10 pm

[56] A good question. Is it really going to help Vasquez if he was going to the place of Meat Tray in the bullpen pecking order? How often would he be likely to pitch?

60 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:11 pm

Gritner's a little bamfuddled by Danks' move ...

61 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:12 pm

Good work, Derek.

62 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:12 pm

[56] What difference does it make? The goal is to put the best team on the field (taking into account both short and long-term goals). If Lucky is the better option, then put him in the rotation and hope that Javy can work out his problems in the pen.

63 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 2:12 pm

Time to tie it up.

64 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:15 pm

[62] Fine by me. I'm not married to the guy.

65 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:15 pm

Gameday indicates that Danks is getting squeezed---what does it look like live?

66 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:15 pm

We did not need that.

67 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:15 pm

[65] Nah, I've not noticed that.

68 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:16 pm

Steal home!

69 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:16 pm


Hindsight says ... double steal.

70 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:17 pm

Pfew! Lucky break.

71 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:17 pm

Calendar turns to May ... Teix starts to click!

72 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 2:17 pm

Teix, 2-2 in May.

73 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:18 pm

"In play, run(s)" is code for "Score Truck!".

74 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:18 pm

Come on, Alex. We need you.
We need someone.

75 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:19 pm

Thanks, Alex.
Ok, Robbie, do your thing, now, more than ever.

76 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:19 pm

Alex is starting to smoke some balls.

That overhead shot on YES on the swing was a thing of beauty!

77 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:22 pm

Way to lay off that, Robbie.

78 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:22 pm

Damn it.

79 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:22 pm

Gah. Nice to get a run, but that inning felt like it should have been more ...

80 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:25 pm

"Long delay for Javier Vasquez. How much does that effect a pitcher?"

Um, isn't that a question you usually ask when a pitcher is pitching well?

81 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 2:29 pm

Javier Vazquez was not a good signing.

82 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:29 pm

Hey, that's more than 9.00.

83 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:29 pm

Well, it ain't 9.00 any more.


Go get the Meat Tray.

84 knuckles   ~  May 1, 2010 2:30 pm

This guy, he sucks.

85 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 2:32 pm

Rather than watch Javy pitch, I think I'd rather have a root canal.

86 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:34 pm

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

Utter fucking disaster for Vazquez.

87 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:35 pm

That wasn't so bad, actually.
Maybe they're just too demoralized to boo.

88 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  May 1, 2010 2:35 pm

Later, Team.
Off to a birthday party with the kiddos.
Hold down the fort.

89 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:39 pm

[80] > 9.00, so in fact the long delay does seem to have had a negative effect.

90 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:42 pm

Hip Hip!!!

91 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:42 pm

Wow ... that was *totally* a Willie Mays Hays moment for Vizquel.

92 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 2:43 pm

[89] Javy so far is only charged with 3 earned runs, so it still is 9.00

93 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 2:43 pm

That reminds me...Jesus Montero was gunning down runners in Scranton yesterday. The difference between his arm and Chad Moeller's was very striking.

94 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:45 pm

[93] Were you at the game?

95 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 2:46 pm

OK, why does Yahoo sports show Javy giving up 5 runs, 3 earned, but the Yankees have no errors?

96 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 2:47 pm

[93] Yeah, but Moeller's bat more than makes up for his arm.

97 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 2:49 pm

[94] Yes, I went to several Scranton games this week. Wanted to see the Cuban phenom and his 100 mph heat.

It was pretty cold for baseball this week, though. Scranton is sort of up in the mountains. It actually snowed during one game this week.

98 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 2:56 pm

Jeez, I'm gone for an hour, and this.
I'm glad monkeypants is keeping the running ERA tally. Now Javy knows not to give up any runs in the fifth.

99 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 2:57 pm

[95] Those runs weren't earned. The official scorer feels that they were mainly a gift from Vazquez.

100 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 2:59 pm

Oh.[98] Right, Javy will not be giving up any runs in the fifth.

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 2:59 pm

C'mon Meat. Throw strikes.

102 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:01 pm

Gameday says all 5 are earned. Though I'm inclined to agree with RIYank. ;-)

103 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:02 pm

This post comes awfully close to blaming Yankee fans for Vasquez sucking.

And he does suck

104 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:04 pm

What exactly is a "meat tray", anyway? I'm picturing a deli platter, with some rolled up Genoa salami with toothpicks sticking through the rolls, maybe some slices of roast beef, some prosciutto. Would there be any cheese, or would that not really be a "meat tray"?

105 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:07 pm

It'd be cool if the Yanks come back and win this. However if they don't Vasquez can claim responsibility for more than half of the team's losses and only one of its wins. So there's that.

106 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:10 pm

4.91, 4.42, 4.84, 3.74, 4.67, 2.87. Which of these things is not like the others?

107 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 3:12 pm

Vazquez didn't seem like he really competed today. He continues to be tenative with his fast ball and worked much more slowly than I remember in the past. Even more telling, he issued ywo 4-pitch walks immediately after giving up a HR. Whether its mechanical or mental, the Yankees simply can't let Javy give away games while he figures out what kind of pitcher he is.

108 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 3:17 pm

Let's go Alex!

109 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 3:19 pm

Yanks needed more than a FC from Arod there.

110 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:21 pm

Chipping away. Game's not over yet.

111 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 3:21 pm

Nerts. Shoulda had more than one run.

112 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 3:22 pm

He tried to pull the outside pitch...both Arod and Cano let very hittable pitches get them out.

113 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:23 pm

Two potential big innings more or less wasted.

114 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:24 pm

[109] I said the same thing, out loud, but in ... different words.

Also re: Vasquez, I don't want to hear about his mechanics anymore. The guy is chickenshit, straight up.

115 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:25 pm

Cano getting pull-happy is something I've been hoping wouldn't happen. I seemed like he was trying to hit it out there, unfortunately.

116 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 3:29 pm

[114] I don't wear to hear mechanics and then see him out there in five days. If the Yankees really believe he is not mechanically sound, they need to at least skip his next start and have him work extensively with Eiland. Whatever their plan, they need an exit strategy because I don't see the point in simply letting Vazquez blow up every fifth day, especially he fails to show any progress.

117 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 3:35 pm

C'mon Gritner!

118 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 3:39 pm

Uh oh ... groin.

119 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 3:39 pm

Gritner -- ruh-ro!

120 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:39 pm


121 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:40 pm

Who? I'm on Gameday. Please tell.

122 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:41 pm

Guess Gardner's back in CF.

He's hitting really well, I must say.

123 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:41 pm

Oh, Granderson. Crap.

124 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:41 pm

Granderson injured. Groin? Hamstring? He could barely hobble to 3B.

125 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:41 pm

Please don't tell me Gritner is hurt.

126 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:42 pm

[124] Oh my, I had assumed it was Gardner. Grandy getting hurt is very not good.

127 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 3:42 pm

[124] I'm thinking groin, he motioned towards the inside of the thigh and didn't grab the back like a hammy.

128 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 3:42 pm

[125] Granderson

129 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:42 pm

Gotta steal 2B, methinks.

130 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:43 pm

[129] Correct!

131 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:45 pm

As Granderson was rounding 2B on Gardy's hit, he just started limping. He was sort of hopping on one foot by the time he got to 3B.

He did walk off under his own power, but I would guess he's headed to the DL.

132 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:46 pm

[131] Which means that Winn becomes the starting LF. Egads.

133 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 3:47 pm

Nick The Stick!!!

134 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:48 pm

Oh, Swish. How Swishalicious of thou.

135 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:49 pm

Nice, Swish.

I wonder if they'll call someone up. I imagine they'll want a backup for Gardner.

There's Greg Golson down in Scranton. He hit an inside the park home run yesterday.

136 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:50 pm

[134] Or maybe that should be "thee". Yeah, I think so.

137 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 3:50 pm

Maybe Colin Curtis?

138 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:51 pm

Well, bullpen roulette, here we go. Three chambers. At least.

139 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:51 pm

[135] Yeah, they'll have to call up or pick up a BUOF, unless Peña is the BUOF and they call up Ransom or some other crazy plan like that.

140 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:51 pm

And that is why Joba should remain in the bullpen

141 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 3:52 pm

Colin Curtis is on the DL.

142 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 3:52 pm

[138] Mitre is starting next time 'round, mark it down. Maybe they should have stretched him for a few more pitches this game?

143 rbj   ~  May 1, 2010 3:53 pm

Off to a wedding all, see you all tomorrow. (open bar tonight)

144 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:54 pm

[142] I hope that's true. At least with Mitre I expect him to stink up the joint. Like, he has a built-in excuse cause he's, you know, Sergio Mitre.

145 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:54 pm

[142] Yeah, I think so.
Or maybe Joba for two innings? In keeping with [140].

146 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 3:55 pm

It's funny to hear people say Gardner's "hitting" really well. I mean, he is doing really well and the ball is struck by the bat but somehow it just doesn't seem like "hitting" to me.

147 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:57 pm

[146] Again, that's the beauty of Brett Gardner. He is able to make his bat strike the ball, causing the ball to be put in play, reaching first safely... and yet he doesn't actually hit.
You have to let go of all the usual assumptions.

148 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 3:59 pm

Win Expectancy: 75%

149 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:00 pm

Oh, I don't like this at all.

150 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:01 pm

[146] Oink!

151 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:02 pm

[149] Oh come now, you just *knew* that Girardi was itching to LOOGY Marte.

152 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:05 pm

Someone should shoot Girardi. Then shoot Marte, even though the runs are charged to Robertson.

153 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:05 pm

At what point does Girardi get over his loogy fetish? It is amazing how prominently Girardi figures in every Yankee loss. He really is a very poor game manager.

I wonder if Gardner catches that ball if he was in left? Losing Granderson for an extended period of time if going to hurt this defense.

154 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:05 pm

Goddamn bullpen roulette ...




155 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:07 pm

[149] Girardi is a genius.
That was harrowing for me, for some reason.
Our win expectancy only went up to 77.5%.
I think Swisher is the clear WPA leader so far today.

156 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:08 pm

Something went wrong with my Gameday and I totally missed the double and RBIs.

157 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:08 pm

[153] I don't have the energy to look through the game logs, but my sense is that every time Girardi has used a LHP in an obvious LOOGY situation, the move has backfired. That's what it seems like, anyway.

158 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:09 pm

I imagine WInn in LF and Gardner in CF is at least the equal of Gardner in LF and Granderson in CF.

159 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 4:09 pm

Groin pull for Granderson. He's headed to the hospital for an MRI.

160 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:09 pm

[156] Something went wrong with my Gameday and I totally missed the double and RBIs.

One of the unfortunate side effects of proximity to Brett "Event Horizon" Gardner.

161 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:09 pm

When I said [149] "I don't like this", I actually meant the IBB. By the time I hit SUBMIT, there was also the pitching change to hate.

Those moves seem obviously stupid to me. For one thing, you just don't IBB the go-ahead run in the seventh inning. The other, well, enough has been said.

162 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 4:11 pm

[156] I was really confused as to how we could have such a high win expectancy when we're losing!

163 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:11 pm

[157] Not every time, but it's pretty striking how rarely it works. And even when it works, it's just Marte getting someone out, which one imagines a mere mortal like Dave Robertson could sometimes accomplish.

164 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:12 pm

[162] Even with Brett Gardner in the game, yes, that would be odd.
Now the WPA criminal of the game is Marte/Girardi. Edging out Javy.

165 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:12 pm

[157] What makes it worse, is he removes a competent pitcher (Hughes, Aceves, Robertson) simply for the lefty matchup. If the division is tight, Girardi could be the deciding factor.

[158] I don't think so. Granderson was playing very well in CF, and Winn has a lot of miles on him.

166 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:15 pm

LOOGY insanity I'm used to. Still hate it, but used to it.
I just can't get over the IBB. I mean, it's sabermetrically insane, but doesn't it also go against all traditional wisdom to put the go-ahead run on base intentionally in the late innings???

[165] Agree about OF defense. Granderson is excellent.

Gameday is obviously busted again, since it tells me that Cano just walked.

167 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:16 pm

Win Expectancy (Posada batting): 35%.

168 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:18 pm

So many bad ABs in this game.

169 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:18 pm

[165] Well, with all the "miles" Winn has on him, he had a 14.2 UZR in RF/LF/CF for the Giants last year. 20.5 the year before.

Granderson was -1.2 last year.

I'm gonna go ahead and extrapolate that the OF defense will be just fine with Winn in LF.

170 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:19 pm

[169] Fair point.

Win Expectancy (Thames batting): 30%.

171 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:20 pm

[166] That's another excellent point. Girardi walked the go ahead run on base to create a lefty/lefty matchup. He not only fell into the trap, but he laid it as well. Girardi simply can not manage a game.

172 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:21 pm

c'mon Thames!

173 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:21 pm

[166] Not busted...Guillen put in his LOOGY. As you can imagine, the power of LOOGY trumps Cano's freeswingingness.

174 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:22 pm

But now Girardi does not PH NJ for Thames against the RHP. Interesting.

175 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:23 pm

No Johnson against a right? I guess he is in Girardi's doghouse?

176 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:23 pm

[173] Ah! I always wondered about that. So this must have repercussions for the Immovable Objects vs. Irresistible Force question. Only I'm not quite sure who is which.

Win Exp: 25%.

I'll stop now. That soothes me under certain circumstances, but not this one.

177 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:24 pm

[175] That's what I figured last night, and it's looking clearer.

178 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:27 pm

After winning the World Series I really thought I'd have more tolerance for Girardi, but he has really been awful this year. I don't understand why the best team can't have one of the best managers.

179 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:29 pm

[178] He seems to have become, if anything, more "conservative" (i.e., less flexible and creative) with his BP maneuvers, which is particularly frustrating given that this was supposed to be a strength of his.

180 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:33 pm

Umm ... is Girardi losing HIS FUCKING MIND????

181 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:34 pm

Who is going to play the OF? If the Yankees lose the DH, then Girardi has outdone even himself. I realize he can't be fired, but the Yankees would be improved if he was.

182 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:35 pm

You gave up the DH to keep Thames' bat in the lineup and his glove in LF???

Seriously, is Girardi having some sort of mental collapse this season?

183 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:35 pm

PH NJ for Winn? Interesting tactic. I guess Thames is going into the field for the 9th? Or is it Peña?

184 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:35 pm

This should be interesting. Pena to LF?

185 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:36 pm

[182] I would contend that he managed just as poorly last year. The Yankees just happen to have a tremendous amount of talent.

186 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:37 pm

[181] I don't mind losing the DH late in a game, necessarily. And I can almost see the thinking that this way he gets a Thames AB and an Johnson AB, as opposed to PH last inning and getting a Johnson AB and Winn AB. That said, it's clear that Winn's role on this team is useless. If he is not allowed to lead off the inning (as opposed to being PH for with men on base, when the chance of scoring is higher), then he too should be cut immediately.

187 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:38 pm

[186] Losing the DH this late is not too bad in principle, but the problem is we have no bench bats, so in case the team rallies and ties it up, you have nobody to bat in the ninth. I guess it would be Cervelli.

188 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:39 pm

Of course, games like this reveal the utter folly of carrying 12 or, worse, 13 pitchers. There are so many more times when an extra position player could be employed.

189 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:39 pm

[187] Agreed. See [188].

190 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:40 pm

[186] The problem is it's a close game and you'll likely need the DH if you are going to win the game. Also, you are weaking the defense in a game that could go extra innings. Finally, as you mentioned, if Winn's role on this team is so small, why is a roster spot being wasted?

After today, I may change my blog to fireJoeGirardi.com.

191 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:40 pm

[186] Especially because if he did get a hit leading off the inning, he's a FAR better baserunner than Johnson, has a wider range of circumstances under which he could score and besides, Johnson couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat right now ...

192 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:41 pm

[187] Maybe CC can grab a bat ...

193 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:42 pm

[190] I put less stock in the "you might need the DH later" argument. In the late innings, the primary concern (it seems to me) should be to maximize the chances of extending the game: to tie the score. If losing the DH in the eighth or ninth inning does that, it's OK with me. That still leaves probably two innings before you have to worry about the spot coming up again, by which time you might expect A-Rod or Cano or whoever to have won the game.

I agree: Winn is useless.

194 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:44 pm

I think Aceves will have something like 5 scoreless innings in the last three Yankee losses. Of course, the problem is Girardi either removed him too soon or brought him in after the damage was done.

195 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:44 pm

So, bullpen roulette does not apply when down by one run.

196 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:46 pm

More Girardi nonsense. Honestly, I wish there was same way to divorce him from this team. He is an absolutely awful manager.

197 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 4:47 pm

[195] It doesn't?

Sure seems like Boone Logan coming to the mound ...

198 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:47 pm

[197] Yes, I see I spoke too soon.

199 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:51 pm

If the Yankees don't rally, this game has the potential to be one of those losses that does more damage than just a game in the L column.

200 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:57 pm

Okay, Rob, up to you!

Show/Hide Comments 201-244
201 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 4:57 pm

Did Girardi really just PR for A-Rod?

202 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 4:58 pm

Another Girardi loss. I guess he and Vazquez are trying to ensure that the Yankees stay behind the Rays.

203 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:58 pm


Okay, I get it. Every game with the White Sox is a chess match. I'd forgotten that. You can't win a chess match if you don't make moves.

204 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 4:59 pm

Oh well.
Hughes tomorrow! Get psyched.

205 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 5:01 pm

Well they almost got away with winning a Vasquez start. Since they lost though, I wish he'd gotten the L to properly reflect his miserable performance.

And good lord almighty I know it's academic now, but pinch-running the tying run for A Rod? Fire Girardi.

206 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 5:02 pm

Terrible start from Vazquez - check.

Injury to a starting player - check

Coffee Joe in full effect - check

Yankees loss - check


207 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 5:03 pm

[206] Chess match: check and mate.

208 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 5:05 pm

[207] naw, Coffee Joe didn't get beat, he just ran out of outs to make the winning move!

209 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 5:08 pm

I wonder if the Yankees would trade Vasquez. I'm sure some NL team would take him. The Yanks don't need much in return, just his absence would please me.

210 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 5:08 pm

I am going to watch the post game with the hope that at least one person will quiz Joe on his curious moves, but alas it seems Girardi has inherited the same reverence given to Torre.

211 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 5:17 pm

How is the bullpen short? Girardi is a moron.

212 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 5:28 pm

Not one question about 5 head scratching decisions at the end of the game. Who says the NY media is tough?

213 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 5:33 pm

I'd love to at least understand taking A Rod out of the game.

214 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 5:39 pm

[213] The explanation is obvious: he felt that the speedy Peña increased chances to score the tying run.

The real question is whether the move actually increased the chances to win (by slightly increasing the odds of tying and thus extending the game) or lowered it (by removing A-Rod's bat from the line-up, which would have become in issue probably in the 11th inning.

215 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 6:13 pm

[214] Yeah I mean how much faster is Pena? Enough to justify losing A Rod's bat from there on in.

Essentially if he succeeds, it weakens the team because there is no A Rod in the lineup should the game be tied.

216 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 7:28 pm

Granderson has a Grade 2 tear, and has been put on the DL.

LoHud is reporting that Melancon will be called up.

The SWB blog was expecting Greg Golson or Chad Huffman to be called up. They are both on the 40-man.

I find it hard to believe they'll go without a backup CFer.

217 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 7:35 pm

Grandy Man injured? Vasquez with another stinkeroo?? Hmmm..maybe will skip the game thread this morning...

O's - Sox tied at 1, Big PopPop with the tater to right field..

218 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 7:38 pm

No official estimate on how long Granderson will be out, but according to sources on the Internets (if you can believe those), 2-3 months is not unusual. Yikes.

Some are calling for the return of Melky over at LoHud, but Melky's currently below the Mendoza line. I can't imagine Golson would be worse.

219 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 7:40 pm

V-Mart just threw out a base stealer!! That will be huge for the BoSox if runners can't just walk into 2B from now on..

220 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 7:41 pm

Girardi took out A-Rod?? Do i even want to read further about that? Other than injury what excuse could there EVER be to take out your best hitter?

221 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 7:45 pm

Did anyone ask Girardi why he pinch-ran Pena for A-Rod? That seems kind of strange, unless A-Rod was injured or something.

222 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 7:47 pm

[220] I don't have a problem with PR for the best hitter in certain situations. This was probably not one of them.

223 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 7:49 pm

According to LoHud and RAB: the MRI results on Curtis Granderson have revealed a Grade II strain, and the Yanks’ centerfielder will be placed on the disabled list, probably for 2 to 4 weeks.

In the meanwhile, the Yankees do what they always do...call up a 13th pitcher.


224 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 7:49 pm

[222] A-Rod not exactly a slow runner though..

someone named Jonathan Van Every just homered for the BoSox, 2-1 up on the O's now..

Orsilo and Remy back-handed compliment for Dice-K, "you can't argue with 33 wins in two seasons but boy is he hard to watch sometimes.." They are good announcers.

225 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 7:49 pm

It's not like A-Rod is Posada or Giambi. Is he? Has he slowed on the basepaths since that hip thing?

226 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 7:57 pm

[224][225] I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that there are times when it might be tactically advisable to PR for your best hitter. Even in this particular case, had Peña scored the tying run in the 9th, it would probably have been at least until the 11th inning before the loss of A-Rod's bat would be felt, so there is a very good chance it would not have mattered---the game would have been won or lost before Peña would have to bat.

That said, A-Rod is generally a good base runner and still has some speed; and with two outs I would like to think that he would score on a gapper. The advantage of running Peña in this particular case was extremely small, it seems.

Of all of Girardi's odd moves this game, pulling A-Rod with two outs in the 9th is the least...but after the succession of weirdness in the late innings it was the cherry on top.

227 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 8:00 pm

[226] Well, JoeyJoeJoe is known for the occasional bout of Larussa-itis so...as long as they keep winning 2 of 3 each series it shouldn't matter in the regular season...I still have fears of him over-managing in the playoffs though...

3-1 BoSox now, and seems that 80% of the crowd at Camden Yards are cheering for them..very sad...

228 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 8:05 pm

[227] I'd be less pissed if they still *were* winning 2 of 3 each series. Let's see how the slumping lineup + Winn/Thames in LF + Hughes do tomorrow.

229 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 8:06 pm

[226] I wasn't arguing with you. It was an honest question. A-Rod is at the age when players start to slow down, and he did have that hip problem. (Remember how crushed Bernie was, the first time Torre pinch-ran for him?)

Or maybe Girardi's still worried A-rod will injure himself?

230 MDF   ~  May 1, 2010 8:06 pm

The faster the Yankees figure out how to get Vasquez out of the rotation, the better for the Yankees. This isn't going to work.

231 williamnyy23   ~  May 1, 2010 8:08 pm

A grade II strain can require anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months. It is really the most broad of the three categories, so it doesn't really reveal much.

Calling up a 13th pitcher is all Girardi. I can't fathom why Cashman doesn't put his foot down. Without another OF, Thames is likely to play a lot of OF, which is absurd.

Also, if Grandy is out for a while, the Yankees may have to consider moving Curtis or Winfree onto the 40-man if they are better options.

232 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 8:11 pm

Curtis is on the DL with a high ankle sprain. (I was at the game where it happened. He caught a spike on 2B while trying to steal.)

He's been playing corner OF anyway. I would think they'd want someone who can play CF.

233 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 8:15 pm

[231] It reveals enough, inasmuch as we know that Granderson is on the DL and will need at least the full two weeks to recover, maybe more. Calling up Melancon to rot for a few days is idiotic. It had better be followed within a day by his or Logan's demotion.

I wonder what Girardi will due with NJ, now that he can't bench him as easily? Will he put Winn in the OF and Thames at DH? Thames in the OF and Peña at DH?

234 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 8:18 pm

[232] Unless they make a trade, like somehow manage to get Hoffman back, I'm not not sure they have the luxury of getting a BUCF. They may have to go with Peña, Winn and Swisher as the emergency CFs and bring up a corner OF to keep Thames out of the field.

235 randym77   ~  May 1, 2010 8:20 pm

Given how problematic groin injuries can be, I wonder if they're considering trading for a center fielder.

If they're going to do it, now's the time. While Gardy's hitting well, and Grandy's due back in only a few weeks. So it's not like they're desperate.

236 ms october   ~  May 1, 2010 8:30 pm

[233] i am actually toooptimistic that the 13th pitcher brigade will only last a few days and was the result of javy's short outing and several relievers being unavailable. if this somehow lasts longer than a few days, it is supremely ridiculous - tims should not be anywhere near a field and winn should have limited abs.

237 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  May 1, 2010 8:42 pm

O's coming back against the BoSox! I smell a sweep!!

238 RIYank   ~  May 1, 2010 10:04 pm

[237] "Coming back" was putting it mildly. The Orioles must love craps, cause man did they roll the Dice today. (Also Wakefield.)

The idea of bringing up Melancon is obvious. Mo will play CF, so they need another bullpen arm.

239 cult of basebaal   ~  May 1, 2010 10:37 pm

— Sergio Mitre tossed three hitless innings in relief of Vazquez. Alfredo Aceves added 1.2 innings of hitless ball. Girardi doesn’t expect either will be available tomorrow, hence the promotion of Mark Melancon from Scranton.

From LoHud.

Sounds like it's temporary.

240 Mattpat11   ~  May 1, 2010 11:02 pm

Its time to make Javy sing for his supper.

I'm in the minority here, but I don't think he was good in any of the five starts, and horrendous in three. Mitre couldn't be worse than this.

241 The Hawk   ~  May 1, 2010 11:16 pm

[240] I don't know if you're in the minority. Or maybe I'm deluded cause I agree with you and think I'm in the majority.

242 monkeypants   ~  May 1, 2010 11:52 pm

[240] The man has an ERA over 9.00 after five starts. I don't think anyone could disagree that he has been terrible. Indeed, he has been nearly Wang-2009-terrible.

243 The Hawk   ~  May 2, 2010 12:31 am

[242] Without the coming-off-an-injury/rust excuse nor goodwill from past performances.

It's bad.

244 Mattpat11   ~  May 2, 2010 1:07 am

[242] I was not at all impressed with his first start against the Angels or his start in Oakland. That's where I differ from people. I think all five starts have been various levels of bad.

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver