"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Any Which Way But Lose

Well, I guess we Yankee fans just need to reside ourselves to the fact that each and every game from here on out is going to be dramatic in one way or another. The Bombers seem incapable of playing anything but a one-run contest these days–last night was their sixth in the last seven games as they beat the Orioles 7-6 on a cool and breezy night in the Bronx. But right now the bottom line, more than ever, is the the bottom line: winning. And no matter how uncomfortable or ugly it might be to watch, the Yanks have been winning, not losing and that makes all the difference in the world doesn’t it?

In spite of some poor fielding (Jeter, Lawton, Tino) Mike Mussina was terrific in his return allowing no earned runs over six (the one defensive gem came from Alex Rodriguez when he robbed Bernie Castro of a hit). Bruce Chen befuddled the Yankee hitters in the begining of the game–inexplicably throwing what appears to be an average fastball past them time and again. But they eventually caught up to him, led by two long home runs off the bat of Jorge Posada (the second of which, a three-run job, reached the left field upper deck).

Al Leiter relieved Mussina and worked a perfect seventh, but then could not throw a strike in the eighth and allowed the Orioles to get back in the game. Leiter didn’t record an out (two walks, a single and a double) and before Taynon Sturtze got threw the inning, a six-run lead was now down to two. Mariano Rivera had pitched in the previous three games and was not available so Flash Gordon came on to pitch the ninth. With one out, the speedy Castro chopped a slow ground ball to first. Martinez fielded the ball but there was no way he was going to get to the bag in time. But Gordon got a great jump off the mound, covered first and barely beating Castro for the second out. The play–which could have only probably been made by Rivera or Mussina–turned out to be pivotal as Melvin Mora followed with a solo home run to right making it a one-run game. Ah, that’s more like it. Migeul Tejada grounded Gordon’s next pitch to Jeter at short and that was the game.

The Yankees move a full game ahead of the Red Sox who were off last night after playing thirty games in thirty days. The Indians won again so the Yanks are still a half-a-game out of the wildcard race. The Tribe continue to creep closer to the White Sox though, who lost in extra innings. Chicago’s lead is now down to a game-and-a-half. Is it getting hot in here?

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1 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:14 am

1.  Great job with the analysis, Alex.

It seems like no matter who Torre brings in there, if his name isn't Sturtze/Gordon/Rivera then we have no chance of closing out the game. People have to step the fuck up and get people out. Watching Leiter was so painful, his facial expressions not withstanding either. Leiter really pissed me off, everything was going so smoothly for the Yanks and we all wanted to have an easy relaxed win. You want people (core bullpen staff) to be as fresh as possible and Leiter couldn't fucken throw a strike down the middle of the plate to save his life.

BTW, did anyone else notice how Palmeiro has turned into a rat? Can Raffy possibly damage his reputation any more? I don't feel sorry for him whatsoever.

2 jalexei   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:18 am

2.  Still came away with a happy feeling last night - we kept Mo out of the game and Moose looked good. When you can survive a spate of Bad News Bears style play in the infield and still get the win, I can overlook Leiter's Jekyl and Hyde performance and the spectre of Sturtz haunting my dreams.

I do think the Matt Lawton magic returned to whatever rusty lamp it briefly emerged from...

3 STONER   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:36 am

3.  Lawton, gawd what a horrible fielder - Moose was wissed at him when he let that pop fly fall in front of him - hey Matt, where is the EFFORT? We're in a do or die pennant race here. Leiter, take a seat next to Embree and have a nice retirement when the season is over. Despite the efforts of Matt (his kitchen-pass from his game-winner has now officially expired) and Big AL, the view from the top is freakin beautiful!

4 joe in boston   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:37 am

4.  Nice writeup Alex.

Stock up on the Tums everyone, it's going to be a wild week ahead ! Thank God we're a game up. I hope we keep hitting.

Does anyone have middle relief anymore ? No more Leiter I guess. Sturtz (the pride of Worcester makes me terrified).

Who knows ? Maybe the Sox are toast. It will be an interesting week to say the least.

5 STONER   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:37 am

5.  Oh yeah, almost forgot - HI ASHLEY :o)

6 pistolpete   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:56 am

6.  Personally, I think Sturtze was fine last night- I watched his pitches very closely, and they looked like they had some good movement on them...

He inherited Leiter's mess, and so apart from the double by Lopez he really didn't have much trouble...

I think the rest did him some good- here's hoping he's back to last year's form in time for the Fenway series..

7 unpopster   ~  Sep 23, 2005 6:59 am

7.  Joe, I feel like I've been screaming this from all the rooftops with no one listening to me but here it is for one last time:

"The Red Sox are DEAD in the water! They're toast"

Their exhausted, banged up, and now even Timlin is talking publicly about running on fumes. He's gassed, which means that unless that young kid Hansen suddenly turns into Mo Rivera, they ahve no bullpen what so ever.

If the Yanks don't sail into Boston next weekend with anything less than a 2 game lead, then we deserve to not make the playoffs...because the Sox aren't beating us this year, only we can lose the division now.

8 joe in boston   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:08 am

8.  Unpopster,

I know. I kinda feel the same way. Then I remember last year.....

9 pistolpete   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:27 am

9.  Yeah, they looked pretty dead after game 3 last year too.

Let's all be a little humbler this year, shall we?


10 Ben   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:33 am

10.  With the Sox having played every day for the last thiry days before last night, they certainly seemed spent. Here's hoping one day of rest isn't enough to revive their spirits and edge.

I love the Yanks spirit these days. They're being very stubborn about winning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Yankee teams of the late 90's excellent at staking the opponents to a lead, and slowly marching back to take the game in the 7th or 8th inning? It was like a formula that kept them hungry and aggressive. Well, this past month has been different for sure, but like the Indians, I get the feeling watching the Yanks that the game is won before it starts; the actual playing of it is just variation on a winning theme.

11 rbj   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:35 am

11.  Unpopster, I won't be anything less than deeply worried until Bud hands the trophy to George.
I missed much of the game, but it appears that we now have a Moose again. Leiter looked good for the 7th, I guess he can only pitch one inning/game or be a LOOGY. Sturtze wasn't too bad, we just need to run up the score so we've got fouls to give. Small in the pen should help out.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

12 joe in boston   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:46 am

12.  rbj, try White-out. No one will know

13 Schteeve   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:52 am

13.  I really do not like Leiter out of the bullpen. Middle inning reliever need to be able to throw strikes and Leiter doesn't seem unable to throw them, he seems unwilling to throw them.

I really want to be up 2 heading into Boston next weekend.

14 Zack   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:53 am

14.  Not that he was helping at all, but the Sox shut down Foulke for the season. He has officially taken over as the Sox goat. I remember the good old years when guys like Jose Offerman were clearly the reason the Sox didn't make the playoffs etc. Its always nice to have a fall guy, no?

The one day off will help the sox a lot, especially since they will be heading into the weekend series with more rest than we will, which for obvious bullpen reasons, matters a lot

15 Max   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:56 am

15.  I think the thing that provides caution (apart from the usual pessimism) is that both the Yankees and Sox are very similar teams, and have been all season. Great offenses, erratic pitching, some surprises, some disappointments. Injuries have really hurt them just as they've really hurt us. Both teams much, much better at home than on the road.

So if we can make up 5 games in 12 days, they can certainly make up 1 or 2 games in 10...it's not like we're suddenly that much better a team.

With that said, I like our "aces" better than theirs and our closers better than theirs. Between our washed up middle relievers and their super young erratic ones, I like theirs better and they've got a great future, but the distinction isn't that dramatic (yet). They have a better schedule than us the last week thanks to the home games (though Sox fans would beg to differ).

So it's going to be tight....but boy, would I love to be wrong and see the current trend lines continue.

16 joe in boston   ~  Sep 23, 2005 7:56 am

16.  rbj, try White-out. No one will know

17 unpopster   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:01 am

17.  Joe and pistolpete,

I hear you both, but this is not even close to the same Red Sox team as 2004. Last year, the Yanks took three straight from a sleeping giant who was still at full strength.

This year, I honestly believe that the only thing that might carry the Sox to the division title is heart, and only heart (which is a questionable asset when your #4 hitter is still joggin down the 1st base line on ground outs).

As I've said before, the Sox have no closer, no legit #1 starter, a banged up leadoff hitter/CF, an exhausted catcher, a defensively challenged SS, etc.

I also FINALLY see a fire in this Yankee team. Whatever the reasom, keep it going boys!!! The Yanks are finally waking up from the hangover of last year's ALCS collapse...and it looks to me like they're on a mission.

God, I hope I'm right.

18 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:13 am

18.  unpopster and Max, I agree - the Yanks and Sox are very even this year in terms of tangible things - whereas last year Boston was clearly better.

19 mikeplugh   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:16 am

19.  Tonight was opening night for Ron Howard's "Cinderella Man" here in northern Japan. I was thrilled to see the story told so well, and it rings truer than ever that the people need a hero with the courage of Braddock.

If you haven't seen it, you MUST find a way. It's inspiring in more ways than just the typical athletic success story.

I think Torre should prepare his troops for the final 10 games by showing the last 20 minutes of the film to the team. The fight between an aging Braddock and the current champion, and swaggering jerk, Max Baer.

In this equation, the Yankees are the team everyone was shoveling dirt on as old and washed up. They reveled in the fact that we'd miss the playoffs and the Red Sox were full of themselves. Now we're showing the guts that got us here before (see Posada's game yesterday) and we need to last the final 10 rounds.

20 Matt B   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:25 am

20.  I can't let Sturtze off the hook that easily--inherited runners are part of the deal when you're a relief pitcher. He gets outs, but he always seems to allow at least one or two big hits - a homer, a double. That said, he should have started the 8th. Torre got greedy after Leiter's 7th.

Posada being hot in late September is a new thing, isn't it?

21 joe in boston   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:27 am

21.  You know, the Sawx are banged up, they have the drama of a lazy Manny and a crappy bullpen, a banged up catcher, CF, and 2nd baseman, a SS with the yips, and a manager that everyone is questioning. But the have a solid Ortiz and a starter (Schilling) that could carry the whole team.

I do like our chances. maybe this is when we need the "calmness" of Torre most

22 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:30 am

22.  Cliff, last night you mentioned how minor league stats directly translate to the majors, and that K/BB is probably the most important stat for a minor league pitcher.

The reason I had earlier said that minor league stats almost always translate to major league ability was because of the few folks like Juan Cruz, who absolutely destroy the minors (for Cruz, 90/28 K/BB in 75 IP at AAA in '05) but have trouble in the bigs (33/21 K/BB in 30 IP for the A's in '05).

That said, I don't think Colter Bean would have any such problems.

23 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:32 am

23.  Anyone else giddy because of this post, which I just saw in last night's thread:

"251. Rich
Wang starts on Sunday; Small to the pen:


24 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:42 am

24.  Really great line, mikeplugh:

"In this equation, the Yankees are the team everyone was shoveling dirt on as old and washed up. They reveled in the fact that we'd miss the playoffs and the Red Sox were full of themselves. Now we're showing the guts that got us here before (see Posada's game yesterday) and we need to last the final 10 rounds."

I really am enjoying this team's way of overcoming adversity, but much like a fish rots from the head and people were blaming Torre for not lighting a fire under this team. We must give him credit for making this team understand the sense of urgency of winning this thing outright. Listening to Torre yesterday on the WFAN I can see why this team responds to him, he doesn't bullshit them with managerial speak and rah-rah type shit. He makes it quite clear what they must do and sets up small accomplishments for them that they must achieve. He doesn't say win every game, but he says stuff like: "In order for us to win the division, we need a 7 game winning streak sometime in the next 18 games" (he actually said that last week on WFAN).

If I were playing baseball I would respond to that, I would respond to the goal that he's setting. Immediately thereafter another goal is set, so it keeps the team hungry. When they were losing all those games he kept mentioning the fact that the team needed to be 10 games over .500, then 15, then 20. To me, hate to make it so simplisitic, but that's the part of managing we all fail to understand.

Keep it up Joe and keep it up Yanks.

25 uburoisc   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:47 am

25.  Mike, I agree that Cinderalla Man was a very good movie, much, much better than your average sports movie, but Max Baer was given a royal screwing in that film; he was by all accounts a really great guy, and could easily be the subject of a film himself. He did kill a man in the ring, but was terribly hurt by it and wouldn't fight for a time after. He was no bully, but a sort of gentle giant and a hell of a showman. I know films work better with villains, but Max Baer was an unfortunate choice. Too bad Mike Tyson or Sonny Liston wasn't handy.

Go Yankees! I'm headed out from CA to see the last 3 games against Boston with an old friend and Sox fan. God, I need some payback for last year; he makes recordings of the key Boston plays and leaves them on my voice recorder when I arrive home from work. Yankees vs. Sox for the division; the best baseball has to offer.

26 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:48 am

26.  Matt B. - I can't believe you are pinning this to be Torre's fault ("he should have started the 8th. Torre got greedy after Leiter's 7th."). Torre should be greedy and save his pen. He should try and give Sturtze, Gordon and Mo as many days off as he can, there are no more days off, this is it, no mas, no mas. This is Leier's fault, no one else deserves the blame. If you can throw a f'en strike 3 - 0 and 3 - 1, then you better throw that strike when the count is 0 - 0. Leiter is a f'en cock, implying that this is in any way Torre's fault is just wrong.

27 uburoisc   ~  Sep 23, 2005 8:54 am

27.  Dimelo, I agree with you. Joe clearly has his strengths, and working with elite, veteran, players is one of them. Guys like Bowa or Pinella may work with young players, but you've got to have a cool head with players who know their job. Torre is not the best strategist, but he does handle the personalities of this type of team pretty well; even if he makes some dubious choices with Woemack, Sierra, Bernie, Proctor, Embree, etc.

28 unpopster   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:06 am

28.  "Torre should be greedy and save his pen. He should try and give Sturtze, Gordon and Mo as many days off as he can, there are no more days off, this is it, no mas, no mas."

You took the words right out of my mouth. This is it, boys...as important as the next 7 games are, the final 3 games will make or break this season...

Although I've gone on the record to say that I don't think the Sox, as constituted today, have the healthy tools to take this division, the AL East may very well still be up for grabs next weekend.

Torre MUST give his key players some rest over the next 7 days in order for them to be recharged and ready for next weekend. Mo, Gordo, Sturtze, Giambi, Shef, Posada and Bernie must be firing on all cylinders come next Friday. That means that over the next two series against the Jays and O's, guys like Proctor, Leiter, Embree, Small, Wright, Sierra, and Felix Rodriguez NEED to pick up the slack and be effective.

With a one game deficit in the standings, the Sox will not have the luxury to rest their core players...they'll be grinding it out until next weekend. We have the slim advantage...let's do it!

29 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:07 am

29.  Guys, you've got Torre's strengths right on. But his 'dubious choices' have also killed the team time after time this year.
I'd say at best, its a wash on the job he's done. That said, I don't ever want to see Piniella in pinstripes again for anything other than Old Timers' Day. Davey Johnson remains the ONLY guy I'd take over Torre.

I'd also say leaving Leiter in too long WAS Torre's fault. Yes, Leiter pitched horribly. But when it was obvious that Al had no control, why didn't Torre get someone up then? A very reasonable question. IMHO, both deserve blame.

And finally, in the last 21 days, Sturtze has thrown all of 5.1 innings. I don't think he needs any rest.

30 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:08 am

30.  Great article on Mo in today's times too.

31 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:22 am

31.  Shaun P. I was watching the game and Torre had Sturtze immediately after the 2nd walk. One walk is excusable, let him get out of it, for christ sake you have a 7 - 1 lead. You have some room to work with. Torre was trying to resist going to Sturtze than to Gordon as much as possible.

32 rbj   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:50 am

32.  Just got forwarded this link:
(sorry for the long URL)
"It's OK to say it. Don't worry about jinxing them. The 2005 Red Sox are going to win the American League East. By a landslide. Come late September, this is going to look like Secretariat at the Belmont in 1973."

33 unpopster   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:53 am

33.  RBJ, funny you point that article out because today the Boston Globe printed Shaughnessy's mea culpa culpa:


34 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 9:58 am

34.  They are referencing Cliff's piece on that pesky 1/2 game in today's soxaholix.

It's actually pretty funny.

35 Dan M   ~  Sep 23, 2005 10:02 am

35.  Dimelo - Torre has been misusing Leiter all year, always trying to squeeze one more inning out of a pitcher that has nothing. And last night, he sends out Leiter to pitch an inning where Baltimore's two best hitters - Mora and Tejada, both of whom happen to be righthanded - are due up 2nd and 3rd. Was there any doubt that Leiter would fail to get them out?

That was the key inning - get through the 8th and those 2 hitters with Sturze, then you can have any scrub pitch to the bottom of the order in the 9th. Torre screwed it up, plain and simple.

36 BxSparksNYC   ~  Sep 23, 2005 10:10 am

36.  Dimelo -
You're right. That post on soxaholix had me crying. Let's hope there more to come...

37 tom yf   ~  Sep 23, 2005 10:21 am

37.  I wouldn't get too comforable with the idea that the season will come down to the last three games. We will be LUCKY if that is the case, there are no guarantees. These haven't been decisive victories, we just happened to have come out on top of a lot of one-run games (a strong indication of luck). I'm as happy as the next Yanks fan with where we are, these are good days, but let's appreciate it and hope the team stays focused on the games at hand. As the RS have shown, a one game lead is a precarious perch.

38 Schteeve   ~  Sep 23, 2005 11:42 am

38.  "Eckersley agreed with Posada. "There was more pressure on him than anybody," Eckersley said. "Every game he pitched, they needed. The guy is ice." "

Great quote by Eck on Rivera in the Times article.

39 Rich   ~  Sep 23, 2005 11:44 am

39.  The obvious move, except to Torre, was to bring Sturtze in to face Mora and Tejada, Baltimore's two best hitters, who happen to be RH. For whatever reason known only to him, Torre let Leiter pitch to them.

The Yankees' middle relief is bad, but Torre makes it much worse than it needs to be.

Few managers handle a pen worse than he does.

40 Rich   ~  Sep 23, 2005 11:52 am

40.  Steve Goldman has some constructive suggestions for the pen (Torre wouldn't follow them anyway because the pitchers he mentions have no experience. He has caused me to hate that word).





Despite the Yankees' improved pennant-race picture, some things are still not working. Led by Scott Proctor and Alan Embree, the Yankees nearly punted a 10-3 run on Tuesday night. This is par for the course for this uninspired crew. All season long, the Yankees have struggled to come up with anything resembling adequate middle relief. Excluding Mariano Rivera and Tom Gordon, Yankees relievers have an ERA of 5.27. These are pitchers who can lose you a game if they allow one run and they're being battered for almost a run more than the league average pitcher, whose ERA is 4.36.

It is not too late to fix this. The Yankees have alternatives from within the organization who are worth trying. This is less than ideal, but as has often been said, one definition of insanity is trying the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Proctor and Embree are the definition of insanity.

If the Red Sox are still calling up relievers (check out the debut of not-drafted-by-the-Yankees prospect Craig Hansen on Monday) the Yankees can, too. Columbus lefty Matt Smith pitched 26 innings against left-handed batters this year, allowed 15 hits, and struck out 38. Ben Julianel allowed 27 hits to lefties in 27 1/3 innings, struck out 36 and didn't allow them a home run. On the right-handed side, there's Jason Anderson, who held batters to a .190 average in 68 innings, walking 18 and striking out 60. No one is a big Anderson believer at this point, but he's worth a try. He walked seven in 5 2/3 innings with the major league club this year, but clearly that was just nerves. The Double-A Trenton closer was righty Justin Pope, a former starter obtained from the Cardinals with Julianel. Pope had 64 career starts, but moved to the pen this year and posted strong results: 77 innings, 65 hits, 20 walks, and 55 strikeouts.

Heck, if you want to get really crazy, the Yankees could try 2005 15th-round draft choice Josh Schmidt (again, if the Red Sox are bringing in 2005 draftees, so can the Yankees, where it makes sense). A righty out of the University of the Pacific, Schmidt was named to the ABCA All-West Region Second Team in his senior year. A 22-year-old, 6-foot-4, 175-pound college closer, Schmidt pitched 33 innings as a pro, allowed just 14 hits (a .128 opponent's average), walked eight, and struck out 47. Clearly he was ahead of the competition — this was a guy who was second in the nation with 13.3 strikeouts per nine innings — and scouts didn't think highly enough of him to recommend him to Baseball America before the draft. Still, desperate times call for desperate measures.

41 Schteeve   ~  Sep 23, 2005 11:58 am

41.  Goldmans piece makes a lot of sense.

42 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:10 pm

42.  I read that from Goldman, too, but there must be a perfectly logical reason these players aren't being called up. It is NOT Torre's job to call these guys up, someone thinks they wouldn't help the club any more than the current crop of useless flesh (not named Tanyon, Tom, and Mariano) we have on the team.

Now is not the time to try new things, there's a reason why the Sawx don't want to put their season in a young and extremely talented Hansen. What would happen to his career if he gave up the biggest homerun in Red Sox history to - imagine this - Tony F'en Womack? I'll tell you what'll happen, he'll be lynched in Kenmore square and be traded to Pittsburgh for Jose Mesa. He would probably never recover.

I used Womack because it's the guy we least think of that'll hit the long fly.

43 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:16 pm

43.  Rich,

As I have been saying; oh and thanks for stealing my line Goldman ". . . one definition of insanity is trying the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. Proctor and Embree are the definition of insanity." Not that I coined it, but I have said it every day for weeks.

What Joe must doe is dump Proctor and Embree, move Small and Wright to the pen. This shores up the pen and removes uncertainty and tension in the middle innings.

He must then move to a 4 man rotation.


RJ prefers 4 days rest to the conventional 5 anyway, Moose will be fine, and if he goes 5, Wright or Small can pick up the pieces.

The Yes Network staff is only 4 weeks behind what I have been saying all along.

It is, however, too late to bring up the youngsters, although it remains a better option than the status quo.

Under my scenario, adding Mo and Gordon, and an occassional Sturtz, we have 10 solid pitchers, why we are using anyone else is beyond my comprehension.

10 is plenty for the remainder of the year, and plenty for the playoffs.

Thanks to the press for catching on, some 4-6 weeks too late.

44 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:17 pm

44.  Dimelo,

How did calling up a rookie to close work out for the 2002 Angels?

45 rilkefan   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:22 pm

45.  "RJ prefers 4 days rest to the conventional 5 anyway, Moose will be fine."

Mussina reportedly hates changes in his routine, and I tend to trust him to know how he pitches best.

46 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:25 pm

46.  So we blow the whole shebahg to accomodate 1 guy, ahh, no. I like Moose, but he doesn't deliver papers, he is a Major Leaugue pitcher, adversity is part of the deal.

47 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:29 pm

47.  Stormer, he was used as the primary set-up man for the Angels that year, with Percival closing the game out. However, Scioscia eased him into that primary set-up role in September, it wasn't in the final 10 games as people are proposing here. Plus he was a star at all levels of minor league ball, we don't have a "star".

48 rilkefan   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:37 pm

48.  Hey, if you want to put a top-down command structure over winning, be my guest. How about going to a two-man rotation: RJ left-handed, Moose right-handed, RJ rh, Moose lh. It's just a little adversity, given their salaries they should be able to just cowboy it out, as perhaps you'd say. I assume you want Mo to pitch the 8th/9th of every game from here out, too. Maybe he can try switching hands as well, so he can cover the 6th/7th. Hell, Gordon can cover the 4th/5th and we can just have RJ pitch innings 1-3 every day - left hand, right hand, left foot, right foot. Moose can cover long relief, and we trade Chacon and Wang for a good backup 2nd baseman, say Tony Womack, who we'll put in cf.

49 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:46 pm

49.  Wow, I didn't mean to set off such anger.


You're right about us not having a star. You are also right about K-Rod, but they did give him a chance, I guess that is what I'm saying. That is why I propose using the guys we have and not bothering with the clear dissapointments. 10 guys should be plenty.


A 4 man worked for well over 100 years. It's not like I am asking something extroardinary. Are you Moose's dad, you sure sem pretty protective. It doesn't have anything to do with his 19 mil. salary, it has to do with what is best for the team. I am just saying if Moose likes his routine, considering he just came off the DL, how about a new routine?

50 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:48 pm

50.  I think we should put Jeter in CF and Womack at SS.

51 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:52 pm

51.  Dimelo, how about Bernie at 3B and Arod in Center?

52 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:53 pm

52.  Or were you being serious....

53 rilkefan   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:54 pm

53.  Stormer, not angry, just in a mood to ridicule your grandfatherly "back in my day Lightnin Joe Johnson threw every fourth day and liked it, and didn't need to lift weights neither, and when the Bombing Biplanes went to play an away game he stoked the coal engine personally the whole way" attitude.

54 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:57 pm

54.  No, no...not being serious. I wouldn't let Womack do any type of baseball activity except run the bases.

55 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 12:59 pm

55.  Rilke,

I will have you know it was a wood burning furnace and we played the Teneessee Valley Authority Titans and the Assembly Line Angels. It was Fox Mulder's friend who pitched, he was an alien, so I guess he didn't need rest anyhow.

56 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:00 pm

56.  Dimelo,

So I suppose I shouldn't throw out my Arod can pitch, proposal?

57 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:02 pm

57.  Dimelo, FWIW, Scioscia had K-Rod throw twice as many innings in the 2002 postseason as Percival did.

Like Stormer, I just think we should give the kids a chance. Sure, none of them is probably K-Rod, but they can't possibly be any worse than the dregs we've got now.

It is probably too late now, though.

58 Start Spreading the News   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:15 pm

58.  Let's assume that the Yanks make the playoffs. Now that is not a certainty yet. See baseball prospectus' postseason odds:

That has the Yanks at 68% chance of making it.

But assuming the Yanks make it, does Torre give Womack a playoff roster spot? If so, is it because he and George are haunted by the prospects of the steal in Game 4 of the ALCS last year? Besides speed, what other use could Womack have?

59 rbj   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:18 pm

59.  If A-Rod can't pitch then he doesn't deserve the MVP, it must go to a one dimensional player.
We'll have the four man rotation for October. [crosses fingers, knocks on wood]

60 Dimelo   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:28 pm

60.  Start Spreading the News - good question.

I think Crosby has shown that he's more than capable, I'd rather have Crosby than Womack. Crosby can steal, he's fast.

61 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:38 pm

61.  Dimelo,

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I second that emotion.

62 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:45 pm

62.  Although I bet Arod could pitch pretty well and I would love to see it. He was a QB in high school with a rocket arm.

63 Shaun P   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:46 pm

63.  25 guys on postseason roster

14 locks:

leaves 11 open slots:
RP-Leiter = lefty
RP-Small = bridge to TanGorMo
RP-Wright = long man

With 3 spots left, I'm sure Torre will pick:

So I think we can have our Crosby and Womack, too. ;)

Best part - no dregs in 'pen; well, maybe Wright

Big question - does Torre leave Bubba (or slightly worse, Lawton) off to bring Embree, too? I hope not.

64 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 1:49 pm

64.  Sahun,

You're kidding right. I would bet my first born you will see Embree on that roster!

65 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:04 pm

65.  Just curious with you're reasoning. Why carry Bellhorn, Womack? Why not just Bubba and Womack, leaving a spot for a guy like F-Rod, Escalona, Phillips, or De Paula.

Just a thought.

66 unpopster   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:06 pm

66.  I am still overcome by this feeling that Woe will be huge for us this post season. I don't know how or why...hell, maybe I'm just friggin' nuts.

With the likes of a hobbled Shef and Giambi and the slowfooted Posada and Tino, I think it is absolutely imperative that we have speed on the bench. And one speedster (Crosby) won't be enough because we might just see him starting in RF.

How big was Roberts for Boston last year? well, he and Foulke -- and maybe, dare I say, Gordon -- were responsible for the end of the curse!

67 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:11 pm

67.  I agree with unpop, and I don't see how Bellhorn can be of use, we need speed and defense, not K's. We don't need a back up 2d Baseman, that could be Womack. I like the unsung hero, and that could be Phillips, F-Rod, Escalona or De Paula.

68 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:12 pm

68.  However Joe will go with experience, and I predict Bellhorn, Embree and Proctor will all make it!

69 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:13 pm

69.  Ooops, sorry, I say that also due to my belief that Joe won't go with a 4 man roster, why would he change now, after 9 years?

70 sam2175   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:30 pm

70.  To all roster-construction-for-post-season guys, let's get there first. It is far from being a given with this middle relief. We have been just one run better in most games, it takes only a little more of the same bullpen crap to be 1-run worse.

Not meaning to be a downer or spoiler, but let's keep things in perspective: We have a 1-game lead. Yes, the lead this time of the season is huge, and Yankees now control their own destiny, but margin for error still remains very, very slim.

That said, GO YANKS!

71 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:33 pm

71.  Sam,

You're right, and if Joe continues to pound Embree and Proctor and Leiter, instead of using starters, you will be even more right, as we will not make the playoffs.

72 Rich   ~  Sep 23, 2005 2:56 pm

72.  Now is not the time to experiment?

It sure as shit isn't the time to continue with what isn't working every single game.

Torre doesn't call up players directly, but Cashman gets his input on player personnel moves, and if Torre won't use a player, which is his historic patern (with few exceptions) if a player lacks the E-word, what is the point of calling player up?

That's right, NONE!

73 Stormer Sports   ~  Sep 23, 2005 3:42 pm

73.  I vote for Sterling Hitchcock...lol.

74 Zack   ~  Sep 23, 2005 5:10 pm

74.  I have a bad feeling not scoring there with no outs and the bases loaded is going to haunt us badly

75 Zack   ~  Sep 23, 2005 5:12 pm

75.  Man, when Toree decides not to use someone, they might as well just quit, cause when was the last time Womack played at all?

76 Zack   ~  Sep 23, 2005 5:12 pm

76.  O's up 2-1 on Sox but just hit into a force out at home

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