"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Wang Again

Late spring mid-week matinee against the Rangers, not so terribly exciting, right? Wrong. Not only is this afternoon’s game the rubber game of the series, but the Yankees enter the day tied with the Red Sox atop the AL East and a half game behind Texas for the best record in the American League. Though it would surely be a temporary condition, a win today could put them alone in first place with the best record in the league. A loss could drop them to second place with the league’s third-best record.

That’s fun, but even more important is the return of Chien-Ming Wang to the rotation. To recap quickly, Wang broke his foot running the bases in Houston last June, missed the rest of the season, then opened 2009 by giving up 23 runs in six innings across his first three starts (34.50 ERA). He was placed on the disabled list with what the Yankees claimed was weakness in his hips stemming from the foot injury. After working out in Tampa, Wang threw 13 scoreless innings across two rehab starts for Triple-A Tampa, but the Yankees weren’t thrilled with the velocity or drop on his sinker and decided to keep him on the farm. Then, on May 21, Joba Chamberlain got hit with a comebacker and had to leave his start in the first inning. The resultant strain on the bullpen motivated the Yankees to activate Wang immediately and stick him in the pen. He pitched three moderately effective innings the next day, but in his two outings since then, he’s been excellent, throwing two perfect frames against the Rangers on May 27 and three scoreless against the Indians on Sunday, striking out five in those five innings.

With Phil Hughes having stumbled in his last start, the Yankees have swapped the two, starting Wang today and putting Hughes in the bullpen (count me among those glad to see them keep Hughes in the majors). The Rangers bats will tell us all we need to know about how well Wang is pitching, but I also go back to this great video analysis from the MLB Network’s Dan Plesac for a an idea of what to look for in Wang’s mechanics: balance on that right foot, a high leg kick, hands in close to the body, getting on top of his pitches, particularly the sinker, and throwing on that downward plain.

The Rangers counter Wang with former White Sox prospect Brandon McCarthy, who is finally healthy and pitching well. McCarthy has allowed more than four runs in a start just once this year and pitched fewer than five frames only in that same start. Last week, he shut out the Astros. In his last start, he held the A’s to one run on three hits over six innings.

Mark Teixeira, who sat out last night’s game having bruised his ankle on that take-out slide on Tuesday night, is back in the lineup. Francisco Cervelli gets the start behind the plate after Jorge Posada got hit with a variety of bats and balls in last night’s game. Derek Jeter also gets a game off, with slick-fielding Ramiro Peña starting behind the groundballer Wang and Nick Swisher moving up to bat behind Johnny Damon in the two-hole.

In other news, A.J. Burnett was suspended six games for throwing at Nelson Cruz the other night, so maybe Hughes will get another start anyway. Vicente Padilla, who has reportedly been placed on waivers by the Rangers, was merely fined.

Categories:  Bronx Banter  Game Thread

Share: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email %PRINT_TEXT


Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 12:34 pm

Burnett ought to get out of it, if Beckett got out of his.

2 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:11 pm

Sit down, Ian!

3 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:14 pm

Well, that was good. That was good.

4 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:15 pm

well, that was an encouraging inning.

5 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:17 pm

[3] I take it this is your Wang?

6 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:18 pm

How's the family, Cliff. You getting enough sleep at night?

Wang's ERA now down to 15.

7 knuckles   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:18 pm

The inconsistency with the way suspensions and fines are handed down is asinine. The entire “warning” issue is a joke, because it allows the initial aggressors to get in multiple plunks, while the plunk-ee just has to take it. The 2nd HBP of Teix that night warranted something further, and if the Yanks had been secure in the knowledge that punishment was coming down, then Burnett would not have had to handle it himself.

8 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:18 pm

Launching pad?

9 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:18 pm

That was also good (Damon's dinger).
So far, so good.

10 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:18 pm

have a shot of JD!

11 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:19 pm

[3] Oh, uh. Well.
Sure, what the hell.

12 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:20 pm

[10] Take that, John Stirling...

That's my Nick!

13 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:20 pm

well, looks like the dial on Swisher has turned back to 'en fuego'

14 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:22 pm

I dunno, tough call.

15 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:22 pm

oops, ain't pretty, but i'll take it (and not look back)

16 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:23 pm

Oh, not it's not. Bad call, from that angle it's clearly an out.

17 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:23 pm

This team is maybe the worst base running team I've ever seen.

18 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:24 pm

I'm listening on the radio, and that didn't sound good.

19 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:24 pm

ugh. well, that went interesting places ...

that's the 2nd base running oopsie by Teix in the last couple of games.

20 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:27 pm

[18] Well, Tex should have been out on his fly (the drop was really in the transfer to the throwing hand), and then on his base running blunder he should have been called safe sliding back to first, but they blew that call too. So I guess the terrible calls canceled out.
Rob hit a blistering drive up the 1B line, caught.

21 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:30 pm


22 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:31 pm

Wow, what a blunder by Teixeira. Is he friends with the guy that "dropped" the ball?

23 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:32 pm

You gotta love my Wang today, cult.

24 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:32 pm

If Wang can work his way back to being his old self, he could be the perfect pitcher for the Bandbox in the Bronx. Ground balls, b****es.

25 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:33 pm

[23] Not gonna touch that one.

Following on gamechannel, so is Wormkiller's sinker looking sharp?

26 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:33 pm

[20] did you see a replay that showed he should have been safe at 1st? i thought he was tagged when it happened, but it was hard to see.

27 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:34 pm

Kay on Wang: "He's been perfect through two".

I laughed out loud.

28 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:34 pm

Couple first pitch strikes have gotten more of the plate than I would like, and a few uncorked 55'-ers, but Wang looking real real nice.

29 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:37 pm

[25] Yes, sharp, and esp. when he's missing, he's missing low or outside, not over the plate. (He's bounced three pitches, I think.)

[26] Yeah, I thought the main shot, the one that seems to be looking from behind the pitcher's mound, showed it pretty clearly. He was tagged, but he already had both hands on the bag.

Yeesh, that half inning was not so good.

30 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:41 pm

Bad pitch. But, a little lucky on that hit, too.

31 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:42 pm

[29] Thanks, good to hear.

32 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:43 pm

[28] velocity's been good (at least according to the YES gun).

33 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:44 pm


Generally the guy has to buy me dinner first ...


34 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:45 pm

[29] also the sinker's been moving a lot, and late ... he's had Frankie Brains reaching a couple times.

35 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:46 pm


36 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:47 pm

What I hate most about that is that the bunt was a stupid move, and now it's paid off.

37 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:47 pm


38 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:49 pm

Kinsler gets an RBI on that walk/wild pitch? That's interesting.

39 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:50 pm

Anyone but Damon...

40 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:51 pm

Should have gone to first, Mr. Rod.

41 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:52 pm

[38] he shouldn't.
that was a terrible play by arod.

42 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:52 pm

CMW's slider has been pretty sharp today as well.

43 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:53 pm

That's better.
But, dang it, that mistake by A-Rod cost two runs and probably also an inning of Wang.

44 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:53 pm

The inning could and should have been over with the ground ball to third. Not for nothing, but Wang doesn't need those kind of shenanigans at this juncture in his comeback.

45 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:55 pm

Still not terrible for Wang - one well hit ball, then some bleeders and bad infielding.

46 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 1:55 pm

I question the wisdom of having Posada and Jeter sit today. One or the other, fine but come on.

47 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:00 pm

Yanks seem a bit listless ... again. somethingsomethingsomethingARodsomethingsomething

48 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:00 pm

Apparently the fans on the wall need to get preflight briefings on not interfering with balls in the field of play.

49 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:04 pm

Maybe Damon could play forty feet behind third base?

50 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:05 pm

I know Wang has caught a bad break or two but he needs to pull it together here.

51 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:05 pm

Wow, this game looked so promising! Went south fast.

52 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:08 pm

Wang has still pitched better than Dontrelle or Fausto today (though that might not be saying much)

53 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:09 pm

His pitching leaves me pretty hopeful, Diane. Not great, obviously, but better than the line score indicates.

54 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:10 pm

Betcha Wang's BABIP is going to remain pretty high. Sounds like his defense is letting him down.

55 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:11 pm

[50] I'd say he did exactly that! Still pretty encouraging, lots of ground balls. Room for improvement, obviously.

56 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:12 pm

and Mike Pelfrey is getting Roped around by a non-McLouth Pirates lineup ....

57 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:12 pm

Yeah I think Wang has looked pretty good. He's a bit rusty, but one run scored on a wild pitch and another after A Rod's miscue. Not making excuses for him (I hope) but like [53] says he looks better than the numbers right now.

Advance the runner, A Rod.

58 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:18 pm

God I'm afraid of what's to come from Melky. I like him too, but that was awful.

59 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:18 pm

[57] The offense, on the other hand...

60 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:19 pm

I wonder if Melky's shoulder is still bothering him ....

61 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:21 pm

[60] In a sick way I kind of hope so.

62 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:21 pm

Man the offense has been frustrating the past 2 days

63 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:21 pm

Wang needed more rehab starts.

64 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:22 pm

With 4 earned runs in 4 innings, CMW's era continues to go down. Now at 14.5.

Looks like the Yankee offense picked the wrong day to take off.

65 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:23 pm

[64] And with any luck, they can burn Hughes today as well in his new long relief role.

66 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:24 pm

This is not my Wang.

67 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:24 pm

[65] They said Hughes won't pitch today, FWIW.

68 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:24 pm

[65] What do you think they'll actually do? I'm thinking Aceves.

69 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:25 pm

Aceves it is.

70 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:28 pm

[68] I was being sarcastic...to be honest, I'm not listening that closely. Things a re somewhat hectic at home and Sterling/Waldman simply make the game--win or lose--unenjoyable.

This being said, despite a few bad breaks (from what I read on the game thread), Wang seems to have pitched fairly poorly (walks, a HR), thus apparently confirming my skepticism from the other.

71 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:29 pm

One of those games.

72 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:29 pm

[70] Then again, upon re-reading the box score, Wang only gave up one walk. It sure *sounded* like more walks. Maybe it's time for a nap.

73 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:29 pm

Melky is 2-13 since his return ...

74 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:32 pm

Maybe it's time to put Jeter and Posada back in...they are about their hottest hitters.

75 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:32 pm

[70] As far as walks go, he only walked one guy.

From where I sit, he could have just as easily given up 3 runs in 5 innings. Not great, obviously, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, due to rust, whatever - as long as there's steady improvement.

76 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:33 pm

Promising start, but it got ugly in a hurry for Wang.

77 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:34 pm

Cervix up the middle, as it were ...

78 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:34 pm

Until the home run, I would have said he pitched okay. The first two innings were so good.

79 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:34 pm

Good start. Capitalize.

80 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:34 pm

[77] And after Wang is gone, what a waste.

81 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:35 pm

Somebody forgot to tell the kids that this is a day off, huh?

82 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:35 pm

[78] It might be a stamina issue. They said his pitch count was around 75, but he really hadn't pitched more than three innings for a while.

83 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:35 pm

[75] see [72]

How would steady improvement be defined? Other than allowing 5 ER in 4+ INN and lowering your ERA?

84 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:37 pm

Just tuned in. Forgot it was a day game.
Well.... oh crap!
Has Wang been as bad as the score would indicate, or are there other factors?

85 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:37 pm

Must score all 3 baserunners.

86 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:37 pm

You know .... if the Yanks score 5 in this half, I'm gonna be pissed Wang won't be eligible for the win :-)

87 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:38 pm

[84] Great for 2 IP. Bad they're after. He lost his sink.

88 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:38 pm

they're = there ????????

89 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:39 pm

Just noticed we have No Posada and No Jeter. Resting 2 of our hottest hitters? Very Girardian....

90 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:39 pm


Pavano has lowered his ERA in each of his last 10 starts from 81.00 to 5.29

91 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:40 pm

[89] Posada because day game after night game. Jeter, just for the helluvit.

92 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:40 pm

[87] Thanks... but bad 'they are' later?

93 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:41 pm

Mr. Full Count with a BIG pitch coming....

94 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:41 pm

Great AB.

95 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:41 pm

[90] I'm sorry, who is this Pavano of whom you speak?

96 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:41 pm

Nice. About time.
Now let's go for the kill.

97 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:42 pm

Me likey!
Did Cervix start this rally? And Senior Pena contribute?

98 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:42 pm

The "DroppedFlyBall Murphys" .... I love them!

99 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:43 pm

Too beautiful.

100 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:43 pm

Good eye Swish, it would be real nice if Tex pays back the Ragners with a granny here.

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:43 pm

Awwww yeah!!!

I'm so stoked for everyone involved that it wasn't going to come down to A Rod again!

102 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:43 pm

MAN... HE HIT THAT A TON!!!!!!!!!!

103 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:43 pm

[97] Yep, two clean singles.

104 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:44 pm

Wang looks at Girardi and thinks "you couldn't leave me in for 1 more out?"

105 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:44 pm

Really looked like Youmg should have got a glove on that. Too bad.

106 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:44 pm

[83] Pitching appreciably better each time.

107 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:45 pm

We call that BOO YA!!!

108 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:45 pm

I'll take a three run double.

109 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:46 pm

Now I'm even more annoyed Wang wasn't allowed to get one more out

110 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:46 pm

[83] Also, I did see that but not until after my post. Maybe this site should invest in some auto-updating Flash comment system. Though that might burst the bubble for some internet sleuths I know of ; )

111 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:46 pm

Tex was not an elective signing.

112 Shaun P.   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:47 pm

[85] Ask and ye shall receive!

Anymore requests the Yanks might feel gracious enough to grant?

113 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:47 pm

Boo him now!!!!!!!

114 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:48 pm

[106] I'll take your word for it. On the radio, a ~10.00 ERA for the game sure didn't sound appreciably better.

115 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:48 pm

I have to say, I did not expect that from Alex. Very encouraging!

116 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:48 pm


I have CMW on my $$$ roto team .... I'm upset for a lot of reasons ...

117 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:49 pm

Look at it this way, Wang lasted longer than the other starter. 4.2 vs. 4.0

118 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:50 pm

As I've said, just tuned in, but it seems whoever holds this lead deserves the W more then Wang. Now, I heard that someone pitched just ONE out in the 5th? If someone new comes in for an IP or 2 or 3, can the official scorer 'award' the W to the new pitcher, or did someone just get very lucky?

119 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:50 pm

Big innings can be so invigorating!

120 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:50 pm

Keep the line moving.

121 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:50 pm

We want our "Marginal Reward"!

122 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:51 pm

[118] Technically yes, but that usually only happens when that pitcher is ineffective.


123 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:51 pm

[115] Absolurely. ARod has pulled and has been trying to pull EVERYTHING (including that horrid AB w/the bases load yesterday).

Oh Crap! DP! Motherlucky Texas.

124 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:52 pm

It's funny how a team can go from looking so limp to ... this. Anyway, glad it's happening.

125 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:52 pm

Ahh, I see our old friend the basepath has come back to haunt.

126 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:52 pm

[118] Yes, it was Aceves. But he'll surely continue to pitch. He gets the win unless the scorer decides that he was "ineffective".

127 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:53 pm

I'll say... this sure beats working....

128 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:53 pm


When in doubt .... take Wang out.

(Beavis and Butt-head moment #3,473)

129 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:53 pm

[125] No kidding. Girardi should hold a mandatory base running practice next off day.

130 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:54 pm

[128] Some might argue it was premature, though.

131 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:56 pm

[126] If Aceves were to be pulled, however, he would get the win (if the Yankees hold the lead), right? The only way that the official scorer has discretion in awarding a win is if the starter leaves before 5 innings but his team holds the lead. Or am I wrong?

132 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:57 pm

Put up a zero, AA.

133 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 2:59 pm

[114] You don't get it.

134 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:00 pm

Way to drop in the curve.

135 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:01 pm


136 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:01 pm

That flyball tendency...

137 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:02 pm

Wang looks as Girardi again ...

138 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:03 pm

[131] No, not necessarily:

10.17(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.

Of course, it's "mute" now, I guess

139 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:04 pm

Feels like we are really going to miss Bruney today.

140 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:05 pm

Would have been nice if they had been able to bring Hughes in. Maybe.

141 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:05 pm

[133] You're right, I don't. I'm half listening to the game on the radio. It sounded like he pitched well for two innings, then imploded with help from his defense. In other words, it sounds like start 1 this year (though in that he walked 3 instead of only one).

I will grant that 5 runs in four innings is improvement over two historically awful starts (# 2 and 3), but I don't find much encouragement in this overall.

Maybe you saw/heard something I did not. Again, I fully admit that the screeching sounds of Waldman and the bombast of Sterling are keeping me at arm's length.

142 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:09 pm

Waldman and Sterling .... Edith and Archie of the baseball world?

143 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:10 pm

Must score Pena.

144 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:10 pm

[142] Except Edith and Archie were funny, at least for the first five seasons! Sterling/Walman are simply insufferable.

145 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:10 pm

[142] In a way, but Edith and Archie were endearing...

146 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:11 pm

[141] Anyway I meant improvement with his next start, and the one after that and so on - I figured the fact that this was an improvement on his first three was academic.

Obviously this wasn't a good performance, but there are mitigating circumstances that make me judge it less harshly than his line might suggest. It was not a meltdown a la his first three, that's for sure.

147 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:12 pm

Send Pena?

148 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:12 pm

It's not Wang's fault that he was pulled out of the minors prematurely.

149 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:13 pm

[147] Guess so.

150 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:13 pm


151 thelarmis   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:14 pm

[147] with hindsight being what it is, i'd say...neh! ; )

152 a.O   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:15 pm

I can't believe Girardi would even consider letting Wang start against the Red Sux, or anyone for that matter. It basically amounts to conceding the game. THIS GUY IS DONE! Let Hughes pitch!

153 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:17 pm

[148] I don't fault Wang. My only point is that his performance today--from what I heard--was not particularly encouraging, and confirmed my skepticism from the other day. Now, may in a few starts, with steady improvement [146], he will back to his old self. I'm not sure it's in the team's interest to have home work this out at the MLB level. You're right, he probably should have spent more time in MiL.

154 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:17 pm

[148] That's part of it. Then he didn't start at all for a few weeks. They need to give him three starts at least, to be fair. If they're not willing to then they should just trade him.

155 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:17 pm

[152] I wanted Hughes to stay in the rotation, but I think you are overstating the peril, at least beyond the Sox.

156 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:17 pm

[150] Yes, thanks. Some crushed ice in that, please.

157 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:20 pm

[154] If they’re not willing to then they should just trade him.


158 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:22 pm

Tools of ignorance.

159 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:23 pm

[157] I don't understand the "question"

160 a.O   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:24 pm

[155] Rich, you think I'm overstating the peril for a starter with an ERA of 14? OK.

161 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:24 pm

A bloody Cervix .... ewwww

162 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:24 pm

I'm ok with Coke going one. It's the second IP where things don't get better with...

163 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:25 pm

[160] Yes, because I don't think his current ERA reflects his true talent level.

164 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:25 pm

[162] But consider the alternatives. I'd stick with Coke.

165 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:26 pm

[164] That's why I would have gone longer with Aceves.

166 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:26 pm

By the way, Win Expectancy (going to the bottom of the 7th tied) is 61%.
I often check that when I'm feeling pessimistic.

167 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:27 pm

[165] Me too. Also with Wang. But given the current situation, stick with Coke, right?

168 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:30 pm

[167] My preference would be to use Mo because Texas' best hitters are up, but no manager does that.

I would actually use Roberston.

169 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:30 pm

Swish should just be allowed to start is PA at full count.

170 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:30 pm

Oh man, David Carradine was found dead in his hotel room today.

171 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:31 pm

I don't understand the dichotomy that you presented: the Yankees "owe" Wang three starts or they should trade him. Huh? If he was effective in the BP, which he *seemed to be*, why not simply leave him in the pen. Perhaps he has now slipped past Hughes as the #6 starter. And why do they owe him at least three starts? Maybe today was enough evidence for the coaching staff that he needs more work--out of the BP or in MiL/rehab if possible (probably not at this point). And finally, why should they simply trade Wang? Maybe they should trade him, if a good deal can be made. But surely the organization is no obligated to trade him because he has (possibly) lost the "right" to start.

I was not asking a question so much as expressing my confusion over your post.

172 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:31 pm

What the hell is Kay saying?

173 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:32 pm


Been there, done that ...

the SHOCKING news is .... apparent suicide.

174 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:32 pm

That's sickening. Cripes.

175 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:32 pm

Uh, I was actually referring to the DP, but Carradine, too.

176 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:33 pm


Let me clarify .... he was found hanging inside a closet, with no forced entry.

177 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:36 pm

[171] You assumed a lot there. I don't really have the energy to clear it up right now, beyond pointing out that I didn't say they "owe" Wang anything, nor that he had a "right" to anything, yet you even went so far to put those things in quotes.

178 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:37 pm

gah. left it was 2-1, now it's 6-6.

i guess today we got Wang Dang Doodie, bleh.

179 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:37 pm

At the risk of TMI:

"The officer responsible for investigating the death, Teerapop Luanseng, said the 72-year-old actor was staying at a suite at the luxury Swissotel Nai Lert Park Hotel.

"I can confirm that we found his body, naked, hanging in the closet," Teerapop said. He said police suspected suicide."

Which raises the suspicions of a Michael Hutchence situation.

180 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:37 pm

Oops. I was wrong about which part of the lineup was up.

181 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:38 pm

Win Expectancy drops to 52% as we start the eighth.

182 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:38 pm

[178] somehow appropriate given that Koko Taylor died yesterday.

183 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:39 pm

[180] Oh, sure Rich. It's that kind of casual little 'mistake' that can cause someone to lose an eye!
Well, a game, anyway.

184 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:39 pm

[182] Yes! Just thinking that!

185 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:39 pm

[183] I suck at multi-tasking!

Coke with some reflexes.

186 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:40 pm

[177] You're right. This is what you wrote:

They need to give him three starts at least, to be fair. If they’re not willing to then they should just trade him.

I still don't understand the reasoning. I don't know why the *need* to give him three more starts at least, and I don't know why, if they do not do so, they should just trade him.

187 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:41 pm

I appreciate that Roberston is getting a shot here.

188 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:42 pm

[187] I could go either way on this one. In general I like leaving in a reliever when he's been effective, but this is a lot of pitches for Coke and that last out was a liner.

189 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:43 pm


190 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:43 pm

Oh, hey, we're set up for a one-pitch win for Robertson!
Go get 'em, boys. Plenty of bats on the bench for Girardi to do some serious tactics...

191 a.O   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:44 pm

[189] Yep.

192 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:47 pm

[166] I think with Mo in the BP, it's 61+%

193 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:48 pm

[192] Yeah. My calculator doesn't take Mo into account.
It's 70% as Matsui steps in.

194 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Hells yeah.

195 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm


196 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Melky is back!!!!!!!!!!

197 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

[171] No..;. we won't trade him, but yanking his next start won't help his self-confidence. My guess is he gets another start, but Phil is ready to warm in the BP from the git go.

Melkdud turns into a Reggie bar!

198 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Melky got no love at all earlier in this thread, by the way. Just sayin'.

199 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Melky now 3-15 since returning :-)

200 thelarmis   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

C&C Yankee Factory!!!

Show/Hide Comments 201-264
201 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Melk and Coke, who would have thought we'd enjoy that combination??

202 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:51 pm

Where did Melky's HR land?

203 thelarmis   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:51 pm

can't wait for Mo to wield his magic in the 9th!

204 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:51 pm

[202] Maybe the first row, near the LF pole.

205 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:52 pm

However, Melking should be running '2nd row HRs' out. He could turn a double or triple into a single.

206 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:53 pm

I'll guess it cleared the OFer's glove by less then 12"

207 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:53 pm

When's the last time we lost a series???

208 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:53 pm

[201] Coke goes better with Melk.

I'll pick Mo for the win! Er, save. Robertson for the one pitch W.

209 Diane Firstman   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:54 pm

MOmentum time! :-)

210 ny2ca2dc   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:55 pm

Man who are these guys

211 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:55 pm

[205] that all depends on the runner in front of him, no?

who had to wait to see if the LF caught the ball.

212 Shaun P.   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:56 pm

[189] You're two for two, Rich!

213 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:56 pm

[208] Yep, see [190] (one-pitch W).

214 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:57 pm

Ahhhhhh. Auspicious and delicious K.

215 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:57 pm

that was 93 and moved like a foot

216 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:57 pm

[186] I wrote that sentence about three starts in response to [148] and the sentence that preceded it, which you left out: "Then he didn’t start at all for a few weeks."

Context, m'boy. I'll trust you to figure the rest out for yourself.

217 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 3:59 pm

Anatomy of a Yankee Fan:
Per PeteAbe:
"You would think the Yankees are in last place given the tenor of the crowd here. They booed Wang off the mound. They booed A-Rod’s first two at-bats. They booed Aceves. Not a happy bunch for the day game"

218 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:00 pm

[215] Feet don't move that well, really.

Dang, pasta divingmelk.

219 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:01 pm

[218] my feet move pretty well, though it may come across only as the rest of my body moving

220 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:01 pm

I appreciate Melk's enthusiasm, but he wasn't anywhere near catching that.

221 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:02 pm

[216] Sorry, chief, the call for context is a dodge. Regardless of the context, you stated that the Yankees need to give Wang three starts or else should trade him. I question this dichotomy.

222 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:03 pm

[220] very little harm in trying, especially since mo isn't really a dp pitcher.

223 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:03 pm

[219] Okay, I guess it's an optical illusion.
[220] True, but it was low-cost, with a two-run lead.

Damn, I really didn't want to see this situation. Damn.

224 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:04 pm

[217] That's because those players haven't won a World Series. It seems like some folk need to relive 1982-1994 to appreciate what we have.

225 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:04 pm

Is it me, or has Mo been hit a good bit harder this year? Again, I don't get to see to many games, and I don't listen too closely to the radio broadcast...but I *seem* to remember more hard base hits this year.

226 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:04 pm

well my cable just went out apparently

227 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:05 pm

One more, Mo.

228 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:05 pm

SHIT!! Extra Innings just crapped out! WHAT's GOING ON????

229 Shaun P.   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:05 pm

Uh, Mo? Mo? A K of Cruz, please?

230 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:05 pm

Oh yeah!
That was the big one. Now go get Dropkick and let's call it a day!

231 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:06 pm

[229] Thank you, Shaun.

232 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:06 pm

yes is gone

233 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:06 pm

[232] Still streaming over mlb.tv.

Pop up to A-Rod for the last out, 51.

234 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:07 pm

weren't pretty, but I'll take it.

235 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:07 pm

For whomever asked about it, from Peter:

"This would be a solid win for the Yankees. With a win, they will have taken seven of the last eight series. The exception was the Philly series in the Bronx."

236 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:07 pm

[225] It pains me no end to say this, but yes. IMHO, Mo is losing it a bit. Still great... but a little less great.

237 51cq24   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:07 pm

[233] thanks.

238 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:09 pm

A character win.

239 Shaun P.   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:09 pm

[233] Thank you for the update, RI.

Praise be to Mo.

[225] I really haven't been playing close attention this year, but given how otherworldly - even for him - Mo was last year, its entirely possible that its your mind playing tricks on you. Does Fangraphs (or any other site) track LD% given up by a given pitcher? If that number is up, and Mo's BABIP is not, then you might be right.

240 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:09 pm

NY and Boston beginning to separate themselves from the pack.

241 Just Fair   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:11 pm

What the hell did A-Rod do to my Yes Feed? Oh, there it is. At least I got home to Melky's hr. Series win. Next.

242 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:11 pm

this was also Mo's 3rd appearance since 5/24.

it's not entirely surprising it took him a little bit to find the cutter.

243 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:12 pm

I think there have been *somewhat* more hard hit balls off Mariano. That inning there were two genuine hits, though not exactly booming. But he did strike out two very, very good hitters, and then the pop-up. And O'Neill did say the cutter didn't look quite as devastating.

I would say he seems to have just slightly fewer great days. When he has them, they're still great, and when he's off, he's still pretty damn good, but maybe the proportion of great days is not so large. Certainly not like last year.

244 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:13 pm

[242] Good point. Forgot about that.

245 rbj   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:15 pm

Re: Mo, from David Pinto: "The Red Sox closer problems continue. Papelbon allowed at least a hit in his last six appearances, and a total of eleven hits plus walks. Once again, however, he gets the save. He’s just not lights out right now."

Maybe it's just the time of year for closers to struggle.

246 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:15 pm

[221] I didn't call for context, I (re)provided it for you since you apparently missed it. So here's an encore of the encore: Since Wang was brought up too soon, and since he hadn't started in a while, it is necessary to give him at least three starts to truly ascertain where he is at.

I want to point out again that this is already "in te record" and I am repeating it only because though I like people find their own inner strength, when they can't I am willing to lend a hand.

247 dorian greybeard   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:16 pm

did anyone else lose the feed? I had Mariano with one out and 2 on, and now it's herschel walker on centerstage...

248 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:17 pm

[241] "What the hell did A-Rod do to my Yes Feed?"

Quote of the day. Maybe the week!

249 RIYank   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:20 pm

Well, for those (apparently many) of you who missed it: Mo struck out Cruz swinging, and then Murphy popped out to A-Rod. His Moliness took control.

250 dorian greybeard   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:23 pm

thanks! a win is a win, even if it's invisible...

251 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:35 pm

Caught a small bit of the game today: very nice win.

One criticism though I feel must be made: what's up with all the baserunning gaffes these past days?

252 Eddie Lee Whitson KO   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:52 pm

Last year, we lose this game, a very good feeling. An unlikely (5 run rally started by pena and the brain) and somewhat ugly win (fielding, baseruning, pitching). Another notch on the belt and 2 BIG series coming up. On deck v. Rays - CC v. Price/Joba v. Garza/ AJ v. Sonnanstine (assuming appeal) - time for some big game fishin' - Bring it.

253 seamus   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:59 pm

[246] Wang's start today was pretty typical of a starter trying to rebuild strength but who was kept in the bullpen too long if anything (and yes this is all due to activating him too soon). He hasn't thrown more than 3 innings in 2-3 weeks and not surprisingly he struggled after he hit that plateau. But now that he has extended some his arm/hip strength should improve (not instantly). For some reason, even when throwing up ace-worthy seasons the worst has always been assumed about Wang from some on the banter. Yet, outside of his injury-recovery arc from last season into this season he has been remarkably consistent.

254 seamus   ~  Jun 4, 2009 4:59 pm

Definitely a good win for the Yanks today!! Melky has been solid so far this year.

255 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 4, 2009 5:22 pm

[254] Shhhh! Quick, knock on wood!

256 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Jun 4, 2009 6:12 pm

Leche is More!

(Couldn't resist.)

But yes, OYF, the boy should be running on those. Mind you, I'd agree it cleared the glove by a SOLID 12 inches. I'm not so quick to say Mo's slipping ... every pitcher, including godlike ones has shaky periods. Boston's commentators have been all gloom and doom about Papelbon last two outings. There will, for sure, be a day when Mo's too hittable, but I'll wait for more evidence.

I do agree, it is kind of a mantra of mine, how miserably tough it is to play in NY. The team is flat-out rolling playing vg ball, and fans are booing A Rod and Wang? (And Cano?) I didn't check in yesterday, because I feared a barrage of 'how could we lose to that kid??' posts (were there?) but I thought it was a superbly pitched game by Texas and it took that to beat us.

257 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 4, 2009 7:26 pm

[256] And there is your thread summary by.... by....
(anybody know this guy?)

258 The Hawk   ~  Jun 4, 2009 7:36 pm

[256] I can't believe they were booing Wang. Cut the guy some slack, he's coming off an injury and hasn't started a game in the MLs for six weeks, hasn't started a game at all since he came up.

259 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Jun 4, 2009 8:32 pm

[257] Jes Ol' Hoss, moseyin' along into the bar to have him a glass of that there FINE whiskey.

260 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 4, 2009 8:38 pm

Johnson's done it, btw.

Not my favorite person in the world, but bravo. Well done.

300 wins=15 wins a season, no excuses, every season, rain or shine, run-support or no, for twenty years.

It's truly an awesome feat.

261 monkeypants   ~  Jun 4, 2009 8:53 pm

[258] I am skeptical about Wang this season, but I agree that booing him is unnecessary.

262 Eddie Lee Whitson KO   ~  Jun 4, 2009 10:17 pm

[260] well said, Unit was never my fav, but you do have to tip your cap. Maybe it's coz he started as a Nuke Laloush-type with SEA and then radically improved his control and expanded his repertoire later, I've always discounted him a bit (yes, even after the 01 WS); but in the cold light of day, what he did, in a hitters (enhanced) era of ball is most impressive. And that's about all the nice things I can say about Randy Johnson!

263 ms october   ~  Jun 4, 2009 10:19 pm

[260] yeah i have to tip my cap to him. he worked hard to go from a pitcher that had almost no control to a 300 game winner.

with that said a few caveats - he definitely was someone who got to 300 by hanging around. also, as i think i mentioned a couple of weeks ago when i mistakenly thought he was going for 300, i really wish moose could have been the guy who a lot of people thinks will be the last to 300. and lastly if you look like an ogre you shouldn't behave like one too.

yeah there has always been a swath of yankee fans who don't think much of wang.

sounds like a good win - and its very nice to have our ace going tomorrow.

264 Rich   ~  Jun 4, 2009 11:11 pm

[263] yeah there has always been a swath of yankee fans who don’t think much of wang.

Just to clarify my posts from yesterday. I like Wang...the pitcher.

I just thought that it was a mistake to start him today because his stamina was in question as a result of the way the Yankees mishandled his rehab assignment, and because Texas hasn't been an optimal opponent for him.

I wish I had been wrong.

btw, I also wish that he could continue to build up stamina before he had to face the Sox.

In the mid- to long-term, I think he'll be fine.

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver