This series is for braggin' rights for guys like me, Jeb and thelarmis who live down here in Braves country... We can only get by on those two Serious titles for so long. Anything less than two out of three is unacceptable. Lets go Yankees!!!

[1] With all due respect to your Braves fan friends, yes, you can get by on those two WS titles for quite a while longer!

It's three in a row against the Braves dating back to 1958, FWIW.

And the Yankees winning streak of eight-straight World Series games against the Braves is still active as well. That's the thing. Save for Smoltz's performance in Game 5 of 1996, the Braves didn't even show up after the Leyritz homer. The Braves' dynasty was confined to the NL East thereafter.

OK boys and girls--I have the MY9 feed tonight on Rogers, so I actually get to watch the game. It's line in the sand time. The worm turns. The momentum swings. Tide turns. Darkest before the storm. Remember the Alamo!

You get the picture.

[4] Who had the sale on cliches?

The last three games ever played at old Fulton County Stadium were Yankees World Series game wins... in case you're interested...

No wonder they built "The Ted!"

: )

[5] I've been saving them up for a rainy day!

Evening, Team.

So I turn on the television to see Derek ground out to...Chipper Jones??

I swear I had no idea he was still playing baseball. Or maybe I'm just shocked to see him still at 3B for Atlanta. It was like a little time warp.

[6] The last play was a desperate lunge by a hobbled Paul O'Neill. Not a bad way to close out a stadium!

that was a weird pitch

You forgot "The Ebb and Flow," and I don't mean cousin Eb from Green Acres and Flow from Alice!

"Kiss my griyats!"

: )

Man, Hanson straddles the whole rubber before his windup. Don't see much of that.

[11] Flo*

[8] My earliest memory of Chipper was in a Spring Training game during which he suffered an awful injury. The Yankee radio guys kept talking about how great a prospect he was and then all of a sudden he was out for the year.

[8] Everytime I write him off, he puts up yet another monster season. And he has moved with more or less ease between 3B and LF as the team needed. Check out his stats:

http://tinyurl.com/lczom5

Career 145 OPS+ ?!?

I argued the other day (and it was an unpopular stance, I know) that Ichiro is an overrated very good player. I would also argue that Chipper is quietly an underrated great player.

Nice play! I never thought Robie had a chance, especially when he took the ball in his glove. Nice.

Cano's good at the baseball.

Wang looks right so far.

[15] The two knocks on Chipper have been that he has become fragile in his later career and he never played a defensive position particularly well. All things considered, Chipper is definitely one of the better players of his era and a surefire first ballot HoF'er in my book.

nice to see that 1st inning

ZOMG @ six pitches, three ground outs!

Woohoo!

Hey, they're following the scouting report. : ) 1, 2, 3 groundballs.

Damn, he really is good and what's more, the dude's even older than I am!

He's an old man, albeit still effective with the bat.

Nice job, Chien-Ming!

[19] Yeah--if you look at his games played, he rarely puts together a full season. This is a very off-the-cuff comparison, but it would be interesting to compare him and Mantle (besides the obvious switchhitterness).

Wow, he's really, really good, that Chipper. He hits for good power and doesn't strike out. And he has an outside chance at 3000 hits (he's at 23-something).

[19] I saw him in Rochester when he was 19. I told my girlfriend (now wife) I heard he's supposed to be pretty good. : )

[26] Was he a skinny little thing?

I had a lot of Braves players play golf at a facility I helped start up called Bridge Mill Athletic Club northeast of Atlanta in Canton, GA. They all signed for anyone on my staff who asked, whenever they came to play...

: )

wow ... braves announcers are something special ... 1 dude just attempted to state that arod's flyball would have been a homerun in NYS.

[24] Mantle was a much better hitter and played a well regarded CF. Also, Mantle was done by age-36, not so much because he couldn't play anymore, but because it was too painful to do so. With everything that has been written about Mantle, I think it's pretty clear he could have been even better if he had been more healthy and especially if he had taken better care of himself. It's pretty amazing that a player with a lifetime OPS+ of 172 inspired so much talk about "what might have been".

In other words, Chipper Jones is great, but he is no Mickey Mantle.

Cano was actually about to offer at that pitch...even though it hit him. Somewhere, somehow Cano's patient approach has vanished.

[29] There is a "different reality" for some down there, Cult...

: )

[31] i think he thought about it but would have held up more clearly had it not hit him

[33] Probably, but it does illustrate why he offers at anything close. If he almost offers at balls about to hit him, how could he possible eyeball something just off the plate?

[31] I know, I caught that too.

thelarmis should be out in Centerfield wailin' on a drum ala that dude in Cleveland. : D

[34] that's true, but in fairness i really don't think he's been swinging at too many balls that aren't even close to the strike zone (as he used to), but rather making early contact that usually results in an out

Hanson looks excellent...kind of reminds me of Hughes.

Hell, I'm just glad they haven't started that maddening "Oh, Oh Ohhh, Oh Oh Ohhh" tomahawk chop chant thingy already!

: )

[37] I'd agree with that, although ironically, he might be better off missing pitches well out of the zone than making so much contact on close pitches.

[30] Sure, sure...I meant more in terms of production at a more advanced age and persistent injury-shortened seasons. But bottom line, there is probably not much comparison.

c'mon Gritner, make 'em pay.

Swing for the fences, Gardy!

Chien-Ming: take.

[40] right, but better just one than both

With the exception of Gehrig, most Yankee greats retired off of some pretty good seasons. I hope the same is true of the Yankees' current crop of future Hall of Famers.

well done, gritner, at least we'll clear the pitcher's spot.

I will say that I have been generally very happy with Gardy. He has--so far--met the limited expectations. He continued to follow the pattern of taking two tries to "get" the next level, so last year looks like an adjustment season rather than his peak. His defense has been perhaps less than advertised (lots of speed, but weird routes to the ball). And goddam he's fast.

Uh-oh. What to do now? Do you allow Wang to rty to hit, or just end the inning now?

If he can't spot that curveball, Hanson is not long for this game.

I can't watch this!!!

LOL @ bases loaded for CMW with two outs...

That's why I hate the NL.

Scared of Gardner. For good reason, the way he's been hitting. ;-)

[49] For those not watching My 9, they had a replay of the Wang injury.

oh god - i don't even want him to run to 1st

[50] Funny, it's why I prefer the NL.

Wow, that was dramatic!
Can't predict baseball.

Why on Earth would Wang swing AND THEN run hard down the line? Is anyone minding the store?

It's a damn you shame you have to feel apprehensive about a grown athlete running 90 feet. : /

[53] Not without training wheels, Ms October...

: )

did Wang at least hit it hard? I cringe even as I write that....

[57] He's not an athlete...he's a pitcher!

[54] Pitchers "batting" are unacceptable...

[59] It was a slow topper.

[59] Not exactly. He swung, chopped it, the ball must have traveled about thirty feet. Out 1-3.

[61] And yet, excusable! Funny, isn't it?

Honestly though...he hits Cano, goes 3-2 on Posada and walks Melky and Gardner. What about that pattern compels Wang to swing at the first pitch? I can understand why a manager would not want to give a real hitter the take sign, but shoudn't an AL pitcher be under such orders?

[62][63] thanks. bummer.

Did anyone else notice Wang pullup a bit going down the line? After having good sink and mid-90s on the fastball, he is all of sudden throwing low-90s and leaving the ball up. Maybe I am just paranoid?

[65] yes

[67] paranoid

Hm, those aren't ground balls.

i thought the mccann hit was a pretty good pitch. that was not.

I'm more paranoid about the 2 line smash singles into Center.

C'mon, Tiger. Get us a GIDP.

this is getting way too Wangish

He looks seriously worried.

[67] Maybe I am just paranoid?
.
.
.

Wow he's terrible from the stretch...

Not a ground ball; however, not complaining.

PitchFX seems to confirm the drop in velocity. He looks completely different in this inning. I don't know if he tweaked something, or it was just the exertion, but it really seems as if something isn't right this inning.

Walking Jeff Francouer is not acceptable. Fortunately Wang managed to avoid that fate.

[79] to be clear, i think you're paranoid in thinking he hurt himself. he clearly was better last inning.

Wang has struggled form the stretch before.

Ugh. Fly balls off Wang are never a good sign.

[79] Could the fact that he's pitching from the stretch [77] possibly explain anything?

lucky. was cano's foot even on the bag?

Wow, that was close!
Gardy should practice hitting the ball like that.

Whew!

Now his velocity is better later in the inning...meanwhile, why are Wang and Tex fighting for that ball?

when i squint ... THAT looks like a routine play in the box score ...

[87] Language barrier?

[84] It didn't look like it to me, but I'll take it.

[87] Because, my boy, those are bawl players.

I am trying to completely ignore the Red Sox score because I can even imagine them losing a game to the Nats. Instead, I think the real team to watch is TB. I don't think the AL Central will produce a WC contender and have a feeling that the Rangers will fall by the wayside.

[91] I tend not to scoreboard watch in June.

Wang is a good fielder. Remember that game where he had 10 assists, or something ridiculous like that? I think it was one short of the record.

He's used to helping field all those grounders. And probably not used to getting much help from 1B.

Hanson really looks like Hughes, but without the fluid mechanics.

[57] I know!

I really don't see how, because a man's a pitcher, he's therefore too fragile to run 90 feet.

I mean for Christ's sake, these people are, in fact, athletes before they are pitchers, are they not? They work out and train and whatnot.

And yet, they hurt themselves running. I don't get it.

Nice hit, Derek.

Damn. Pulling for a triple. C'mon, Jete. : )

nice announcing by michael kay.
why was anderson so far in the corner?

jeter with a nice pull hit - oyf should be happy

Damn, that was the weirdest line single, no double, no triple in the gap, no double...

nice of anderson to turn a double into a triple, nice of jetes to give it back.

Talk about a sign that we are all getting old...when they both started out, that ball never gets by Andersen and Jeter is on 3B standing.

Bizarre performance by Wang thus far. First inning is uber-Wang, second starts off looking like Wang at his worst until the third out which looked like uber-Wang again.

[93] LOL @ "not used to getting much help from 1B"...

Too true...

Hanson actually reminds me of Halladay...but only in the face

[93] Yeah! I had forgotten, but now that you mention it, yes.

[94] i don't really see the hughes comparison. aside from the obvious difference in delivery, hanson doesn't seem to have as good a curve, has a better slider, and doesn't throw a cutter. i'm not sure if those last 2 points make sense since hughs's "cutter" is really the only slider-type pitch he throws now.

C'mon Tex!

He's actually scared shitless of Teix. Amazing.

He wanted no part of that AB...

Hanson is supposed to be a superstud prospect, isn't he?

[106] Both pitchers have a 92-93mph fastball that has good movement as well as a plus overhand curve (although Hanson's hasn't been good today). This start by Hanson reminds me of Hughes when he struggles.

Okay, I think this is the first time that PJ said the same thing I did only more politiely

Gas or his first good curveball?

[110] Yes in deed. Remember, he is only 22. And so is Hughes for one more day.

Oh, Alex, Alex, Alex.

Sigh.

arod's timing is just very off

[113] The first two pitches were fastballs -- is that what you meant?

It really is amazing how this team only wins when Arod is going well. You'd think the lineup depth would make up for his struggles.

ARGH.

Lest we forget - A Rod signed through 2017.

[117] Unfortunately, I was wondering what was going to get Alex. Oy.

[118] maybe he shouldn't be hitting cleanup when he can't hit

All right, now anyone (mp?) who says that "protection" is just a lot of hocus-pocus needs only look at this inning and then tell me there's no such thing as "protection."

And there goes Cano hacking away again. Why, oh why does Girardi continue to bat him 5th?

[121] Pessimistic. Albeit realistic.

[123] Does anyone actually say that??

[123] The of anecdote is not data. Just look at the evidence overall.

[126] Yes, I do, and a bunch of articles on baseball prospectus and the like.

I guess Braves fans aren't enamored of their RFer. They made this shirt.

[127] plural

:)

The rest of MLB is really lucky that Cano insists on swinging at bad pitches.

[128] Etc.
It's not exactly hocus pocus. It's just that the effect is extremely small.

[127] Actually, in this instance, the anecdote is more powerful than data. I think it's pretty obvious that Teixeira didn't get the chance to swing because Arod is struggling so much.

mclouth looks like a dick

meanwhile, good Doodles is back this inning

[133] I agree, it's pretty hard to argue with that particular case!
It's just that the overall effect is very small over the course of a season.

[128] I get that there are studies demonstrating it's a chimera, and maybe in the aggregate it is, but what did we all just see with our eyes? We saw Teix not get anything to hit because the pitcher had zero fear of going after his "protection."

Had Alex been hitting, Teix more likely would have gotten something to hit.

I mean, can we agree that we just saw one guy being pitched around because his successor was deemed the easier out?

[132] over the course of a season yes. any given inning or game as william [133] pointed out, it might matter

[133] Also. Teixeira's walk in that AB contributes positive value to his data. One could argue that Tex' OPS of 1.000 is evidence of Arod's struggles not making a difference. By looking at the anecdote, however, we can see that Tex was walked on purpose so Hanson could attack the struggling Arod.

Kind of surprised A Rod missed that.

jesus jorgie what was the point?

Ohhhhh. That was not a good throw.

the hell was that....

Uhhh, Posada?

Just a stupid decision by Posada....once again, that has become a hallmark of this team.

Gawd-awful throw by Posada.

That was a joke.

here's another anecdote

[140] Arod has clearly taken a step back. When you consider that he was actually performing up to his old standards for a stretch, you really have to wonder if the overuse has stunted his recovery. If so, then that is a transgression that should seal Girardi's fate.

That hit kind of feels like ballgame.

Oof.
Settle down now, C-M...

Just get out of the inning with one run scored.

mccann is good. that was a good pitch.

[132] Right.

[137] Perhaps. We have no way of running a double blind test. Maybe he was "scared" of Teix, or maybe he lost his arm slot. But let's assume teh former. Maybe if A-Rod is slugging Teix would have gotten more to hit. Or maybe the pitcher would still feel more comfortable facing A-Rod because there is something in the scouting report that he prefers. Maybe he really didn't want to pitch to teh switch hitter. Maybe he subscribed to the silly notion that you as a rule pitch around a slugger with first base open, because he might chase or you might "set up the double play."

In any case, this entire discussion is based on the operating assumption that his walk of Teix was the product of fear. I tend not to get into the psychological stuff, because it's hard for me to determine fear from here on the couch.

Uh-oh bad Wang returning.

[135] blergh, spoke too soon.

wang doesn't seem to have the same stuff from the stretch ...

Sigh.

[150] Let's see if Wang stops it here.

[150] i think you spelled "season" wrong

I wonder... if we did NOT... HAVE TO WIN NOW....
would ARod have had the 'full surgery' and be ready for next year?

[149] You do have a tendency to push supposition into reality.

the way this offense is performing it does seem like that's the ballgame. man, when they get into this kind of hitting slumps, the whole team looks desperate.

depressing

for fuck's sake

Damn, he's getting hit hard now.

Man, what is it with Wang anyway?

Oh, man. Dammit.

jesus christ this came tumbling down quickly

this just in ... I STILL HATE GARRETT ANDERSON.

[138] I was trying to say something a propos this apparent conundrum but the computer wouldn't let me. I'll try again now:

Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads. Heads.

(Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, on the fact that it's always 50-50 so why should we be surprised when it's heads twenty times in a row?)

This team can't win without ARod... or rather Win 50% of the time.

official: game over

[168] Nice allusion, but.... huh?

[164] I blame the coaching staff. Clearly he should have been coached not to run t first base when he was batting. This entire organization is asleep at the wheel. It's unacceptable.

[172]

OK, I'm done with that.

Let's go boys!!

[160] Not sure where I pushed anything into reality, but we have a case of a player who was clearly extended well beyond what the best experts recommended and a corresponding drop in production. I can understand not wanting to draw any conclusion from cold hard data, but in this case, I think it is pretty obvious that Arod has worn down a bit.

Come on it's just three runs. Wang could give up no more and pitch through the sixth for all we know. The thing that bugged me about that was that it was with two outs. But anyway - it's on the offense to do something.

[170] Nah, we're winning this one. Never fear.

in this inning wang didn't look like he wanted any part of chipper jones. yet brian mccann was up next. i think it's a difficult thing to start saying definitively why a pitcher walks someone or throws a certain pitch.

All with 2 outs. F##%!

[172] If the coaching staff started their best pitchers, the point (and your post) would be moot.

alright team - need to take advantage of the base runners as a result of hanson's wildness

[177] Good point.

You guys watching the Nats and Sox??

[179] Even their best pitchers get touched up every now and then. It's not like that inning was some kind of unique display.

[182] some of us don't check scores in june, others don't believe the sox can ever lose

In case not: single, walk, walk, WP, walk. One out for the Nats.

[184] Now I'm ashamed.

Must score Melky.

These are the longest doubles-but-not-triples I have ever seen.

Melky ! You could tell he was like, "I walked last AB, I'm ****in' swinging this time"

If Arod fields that ball, Wang is out of the inning without having to face Jones and McCann. Wang did give up two hard hits, but it doesn't help when your defense constantly gives up extra outs.

[171] Heh heh. It's how my brain works. The fact that there could be "protection" in any given case but not "protection" as such, over the season or whatever, struck me as similar to the coin thing.

The odds are always 50-50 of getting heads, even if you've gotten heads the last two hundred times consecutively. Each toss is just 50-50 so there's never any cause to scratch your head if you get heads two hundred times in a row because it's really not as astronomically unlikely as it would seem because it's always just one in two of coming up heads and that's not so unlikely.

I don't know, that's what this reminds me of: I think it's something about how intuition and logic can clash and logic isn't infallible.

[176] This is the trend the last few games: they threaten the first innings, they can't capitalize, then they get scored on and get into a 3 or 4 inning stretch in which they can't hit a lick, then they try to come back in the 8th or 9th and then its too late.

I hate this movie.

oh good - someone else makes errors

Ugh. They dropped the ball right on Melky's face.

My goodness, more stupid baserunning by the Yankees.

What a break!!!

That was like a play in little league!

Bad baseball all around.

melky, you're a fucking idiot sometimes.

Atlanta doesn't have good defense.

[183] That true, but the purpose of my post was to merely demonstrate the absurdity of another post. As such, this team is not well run, and nothing anyone says to obfuscate that fact can change that reality.

A bunt, but no squeeze? Are you serious?

Someone needs to take this team to baserunning camp.

wang has been far more of a "hitter" than i impagined he would be

[191] I get it.
But seriously, the effect in the long run is very small as I said.

If y'all don't check the scores on a daily basis or nightlty basis, does that mean that the only baseball game result you know about is the Yankees?

[197] You can cross Melky out and fill in the blank. It's really a team problem that seems never to be addressed.

[200] Tha's what I'm saying!

Melky is a bonehead, as Chad Jennings put it. Last year, when they sent him down and told him to work on his baserunning, he made three stupid baserunning errors in three games.

That shoulda been a hit for Gardner.

[206] Would it have taken much imagination to try a safety squeeze? Or, have Gardner steal 2B and see if Wang can hit a flyball.

boy that was almost a foot inside calm down

Late to check in, is CMW awful again? How many times can they keep putting him out there??? Sigh..

let's go swishy - need some runs

Here we go.
Watch Swish get ahead in the count and rattle this boy.

Dear Big hit,
It's been awhile.
Your Friend,
me

[203] I'll buy that it's small, whatever small means. I just don't like it when I'm discouraged from believing my own lying eyes. But then, I know, the stick *looks* bent in the water and yet is as straight as it was outside the water, so there you go. Chalk it all up to an evil genius hell-bent on deceiving my senses at every turn.

oh damnit

The anti-clutch.

Or not.

Nice inning, Yankees.

Ugh.

[210] Wanger is not awful. He's been a little inconsistent, but not awful.

Incredible....this guy can throw strikes, but that doesn't stop the Yankees from hacking. This team continues to make the same mistakes and continues to lose as a result.

i know some people will be annoyed that he swung at that first pitch but i think it makes sense, just extraordinarily frustrating that it ends so quickly that way

[213]
Dear Jf.
Go eff yourself.
Sincerely,
Big Hit.

ps. ugh.

[174] I was just commending your clever rhetorical tendency of using conditional clauses and the like to make unsupported points stronger. It usually goes like this:

A-Rod is really slumping (statement of fact). It's all the more striking when you think of how well he was doing before (fact, with some subjective judgment). It makes you wonder if the slump hasn't been caused by massive overuse (hmmm...speculation, charged with evocative language, no real evidence presented). If that's the case (ahh..very clever, distance yourself from the implicit conclusion that you just presented without firm evidence), then Girardi's fate should be sealed (extreme conclusion to conditional, which i really what you wanted to say to begin with ["They should fire Girardi"], but masked in a series of hypothetical statement. In effect, you have just said that Girardi caused A_rod's slump and should be fired, without ever making a positive statement. Brilliant.).

Another version was citing Pete Abe's argument about the possible overuse of Sabathia, but citing in a way that presented the argument as fact or conclusion. Then, when challenged, you can retreat by saying that you never argued for the point, that was only Pete Abe's argument.

It's really very good oratory. Have you read much Cicero?

8 LOB in 4 innings...

[214] There's more than one kind of illusion. There are cognitive illusions, too. For instance: some kinds of events are very salient to us (e.g., a pitcher walking Teixeira when A-Rod is slumping). We tend to remember those. We tend not to remember more mundane events.

Keep that in mind, because it's quite common for the kinds of events that confirm our traditional wisdom to be much more salient...

The Yanks look bad at the plate again but Kay overstates it by saying how many men they've left on base. Three were with Wang at bat; can't really fault him not coming through.

swisher is automatic out, no better than 4th outfielder

[223] Do you honestly think that Girardi is doing a good job? Seriously?

It's really hard to explain how you can have 2 doubles and 4 walks in four innings and ZERO runs.

defies logic.

I hate this movie

[225] Indeed.

[227] Then how did he get his OPS+ to 132 before this game?

[219] Thanks..too down to go back and read all the game thread..Yanks could be 7 back by the ASG, and the Rays are charging..am really worried that they could miss the playoffs..unlike Williamnyy23 I put this on Cashman..the more I look back at his body of work, the less impressed I am..

hmmm

good wang = from the stretch
bad wang = from the wind

c'mon 1-2-3 innings!

[223] I don't think I need to make indirect references to build a case for firing Girardi. If I wanted to do that, it would be much more effective to itemize the many reasons that support such a conclusion.

We know for a fact that Arod has been overused and that Cashman has had to intervene on his behalf. If you don't think that's a red flag, then I don't know when you'd ever come to a conclusion.

Oratory or not, Girardi has severely mismanaged games and his roster and that has become increasingly apparent with each mounting loss.

[231] You and your numbers! Numbers cannot hit in the clutch. Numbers are not clutch.
Numbers. Basement.

[223] That is too detailed for me to respond to - plus it wasn't directed at me, but let me just say: I'm not convinced.

[232] In almost every loss over the past 12 games you call into question a series of moves by Girardi that negatively impacted the game. Why do you hold that against Cashman? How much more talent does this team need?

The Wang is making strides to the good side, methinks. The offense, however. WTF?

nice inning wang

[233] certainly seems so. i wonder if he hasn't been throwing out of the stretch enough in side sessions?

for those of us scoreboard watching, boston took care of business in the 4th. and took the lead in the 5th. they win games with penny on the mound...remember when the yanks were 2 game above them?

[235] ha hah ah ah ah !

"Numbers cannot hit in the clutch!"

I like that. Very much.

And it's true, they can't.

[237] not to excuse girardi, but if you show me 5 recent great teams, i'll show you 5 bad managers (or perhaps 2 if 4 of those teams are torre's yanks).

[240] Tampa, Texas and the Angels are the only teams I'm watching. The Yankees are not going to catch Boston unless some real changes are made, IMHO.

[240] Yes ... I believe that was before the Red Sox beat them for the 6th, 7th and 8th time in a row this season, and apparently also made off with the Yanks' collective manhood.

[235] Heh. Your post reminds me of that old Disraeli line about there being lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Man, Alex is way, way out of whack.

[242] Why does every defense of Girardi revolve around the perception that most managers are incompetent? Even if that is the case, shouldn't the Yankees be exploiting this universal weakness by hiring someone who gives them a relative advantage?

[232] I've gone back and forth. Girardi, Cashman to Cashman, Girardi.

the bottom line is that this team, with this talent can go on winning runs like the one we saw mid-May. I can't tell what they are missing. My guess is that this team goes as far as a-rod can take them, and he's really slumping.

Nice hit, Alex.

Not even warning track power...

[237] But in most games that any given team wins you can call into question a move that the manager made that the team may have won in spite of (Torre had his fair share of these), it comes down to roster construction. This team is extremely talented, yes. But is also deeply deeply flawed in several areas, that doesn't have much to do with Girardi.

[247] perhaps you missed the first clause of my comment. my answer to your 2nd question is yes. but in the current baseball world, where only ex-players are considered as managers, it seems to me that managers don't often make much of a difference one way or another.

Now that *might* have been a HR in teh new stadium.

At least were just 4 innings away form putting the tying run on base. Hey, Robbie!

[254] we're, not even. The Yanks.

that looked way outside to me

[237] Angel Berroa, Sidney Ponson and Brett Tomko are reasons enough to question Cashman..like you, I am not overly impressed with Girardi, but ultimately General Managers are MUCH more important to a team's success than field Managers..remember, Charlie Manuel just won a World Series...not exactly John McGraw, is he?

Whether you liked the old George's methods or not, at least you knew where he stood. The most frustrating part of this organization is they now offer absolutely no insight into how they view the team. Heck, even if they come out and say Girardi is the manager all season, it would let everyone know what to expect. I keep holding out hope that a change will be made, but it feels like a futile wish.

[253] at least it would have needed a video review

[244] The Yankees haven't had "manhood" in years...

Oh, Jorgie.

[248] that winning streak in may was against all bottom-tier teams. yanks can't beat stronger, hungrier teams

[251] I don't agree with that position. Girardi's moves are so dubious that I absolutely do not believe that every manager performs as badly in a close game. The Tomko incident yesterday is the best example of that. There is absolutely no defense for allowing your worst pitcher to throw a game like that away. I am not willing to chalk that up to roster construction because you can have a guy like Tomko on the team without allowing him to blow leads in the 5th inning.

[257] No OK, he's more like Bob Lemon...

: )

[262] So the wins against the Rangers, Blue Jays, and Rays were against bottom-tier teams but the losses were to the stronger and hungrier Nationals and Marlins?

[252] I understand that you are coaching the argument in the context of the "current baseball world", but I am sick tired of that excuse. I want Hal to wake up and realize that his $200mn roster is being managed poorly.

[262] Like the Nationals?

I like how Rob comes up throwing on that play.

[266] but still the question is with whom do you replace girardi?

well, we'll see how the wind-vs-stretch theory plays out ...

[265] The Rangers are not hungry. Nor the Jays.
Check out their Starvation Quotient if you don't believe me.

[269] Replace Girardi with Tony Pena, for the rest of the season, anyway.

[257] Ponson was on the team because of a significant number of injuries. Focusing on this season, do you really think Cashman has forced Tomko on Girardi? Honestly? What's more, it's not Cashman brining him into 3-1 leads. Instead of focusing on the bottom of the roster, Cashman has been responsible for all the free agents along with Swisher, Aceves and the recent crop of draft picks. If your manager is failing because of guys liek Berroa and Tomko, I think that says alot more about him than the GM.

[264] Thanks, Meat.

BoSox liekly to sweep the Nats..watching Beckett the other day was terrifying..when he's on like that he isn'y going to lose..but have reached a zen-like calmness now in accepting that the BoSox are our daddies..I am no longer in pain..

Wow, right on, Chien-Ming.

[263] I personally would've yanked Tomko after the Ramirez home run, but thats just me. When CC can't get out of the 2nd inning, your offense shuts down after about the 3rd, and you're trying to avoid burning out Aceves...your options become somewhat limited.

I have to say, Wang has looked pretty good. That one seriously bad inning, and besides that he's been pretty strong. Not dominating, but very solid.

Baseball Gods: Here are some Baseball Fundamentals, Yankees...

Yankees: What are those?

Baseball Gods: They are what you must have to win games.

Yankees: What's "win games"?

[271] blah, blah, blah, numbers, numbers, numbers! Bah, more basement talk!

Doesn't take a spreadsheet to count a player's ribs, does it?!?!?

[272] isn't the bench coach contributing to some of the poor decisions we're talking about?

[268] I notice you've taken to calling the man "Rob" rather than "Robbie" or "Robinson."

Any thoughts on the matter?

[269] Since the Boston sweep, I have been pushing Showalter as an interim manager. I would be very happy with him.

"but have reached a zen-like calmness now in accepting that the BoSox are our daddies..I am no longer in pain.."

I feel the same way haha

[271] neither are the nationals. when your shortstop weighs 2 bills (not to mention a couple others) - you ain't hungry.

[270] well cult - better that inning

Swing sooner, kid!

[272] Maybe, but I'm not the "poor decisions" guy, I'm more the "doesn't have the right disposition for this job" guy. It's addition by subtraction, as they say.

[276] They weren't limited though. In fact, he had the entire bullpen and an off day to follow. He could have had Robertson throw the 5th and 6th and then used Hughes and Coke in the 7th and 8th. There were many options...in fact, the only bad one was Tomko for two innings.

I'm so depressed with the current stretch of games..going to go join this guy, it's allowed in Japan to be loopy in public http://tinyurl.com/kkox6x

where's thelarmis for some beer & jazz chat when I need him? :(

That was a nice hit by Gardner. I didn't think I'd ever say that.

Too bad Wang doesn't get to go out for the sixth.

[281] Ummmmm.
I don't know. it must be my unconscious mind. What do you think, doc?

gritner!

i like the cut of his jib!

AND we get to see hughsie!

it's his job, dontcha know?

[274] "but have reached a zen-like calmness now in accepting that the BoSox are our daddies..I am no longer in pain.."

heh heh

What is the sound of 25 Yankees failing?

: )

Gardy is really on a roll.

He'd be 2 for 2 with a walk tonight, if Melky weren't a bonehead.

After going 2 for 4 with a triple last time...

[288] isn't he suffering through this game in person?

[290] Are you saying you're asleep right now?

Phil Hughes warming tells you everything you need to know about what's wrong with Girardi. On Sunday, the Yankees could have had Hughes throw 2-3 innings to preserve a lead, but instead they seem likely to use him trailing by three runs. On Sunday, Hughes was an 8th inning guy, but today he is a middle innings guy. There are no roles; there is no rhyme or reason. It's kind of like not using Mo in the 8th inning in Boston, but then brining him into the 8th inning against the Mets despite there being two outs and no men on.

[288] He's got instruction tonight, OK...

He will also be at both remaining games in this series the next two days...

: /

[292] see [283] ... jinx!

[286] That I can get on board with, I don't know if I do (yet) but I understand it.

Is Girardi a better in-game tactician than Torre? Its highly doubtful. But no one can match Torre in disposition.

Making an itemized list of "things Manager X did wrong" reeks of armchair expertise. I could probably draw up a long list of things Bob Brenly did wrong in '01 or Manuel did last year...wouldn't really count for a whole lot.

[293] Interesting, because we know that FC would have been a hit if he tried to throw out Brett. The two errors (Melky running, whatshisname throwing) should just cancel out.
Well, official scoring is all crap anyway.

Wow. Easy pitch to throw, good throw, Gardner picks it easily.

[299] I meant to say "is Torre a better tactician than Girardi?", but my point remains the same.

the kneeless wonder comes through!

if this were any other team I'd be tempted to call this a "rally"

alright pen time - does the braves pen suck or are they decent?

[298] Bah! That's not the same thing, Hawk! That's why I posted it...

:P

Hanson wasn't very impressive despite the score.

[302] What MLB managers are good tacticians?

I'd say Francona makes fewer mistakes than others, but only marginally.

[227 "swisher is automatic out, no better than 4th outfielder"
Well... with a .887 OPS, he must be the best AO in MLB. .887 is 2nd for RFers in the AL.

[290] I think you're trying to encourage him to take himself more seriously, to come to terms with the fact that he's not a kid anymore and that he has responsibilities.

[308] LaRussa? Leyland?

The Nats are torturing Penny in the sixth. The score is tied.

If the Nats win, does that mean the Rays automatically win the Division? I have to check my rule book.

There was something - I think in the NYT - that said that Girardi was described as "tight" by one of the Yankees (without rancor, quoth the article in question). That was my perception, and I don't think it's a good personality type for this team.

What you want with this talent level is to get out of the way as much as possible, with the occasional kick in the ass in case of complacency - a kick, with this veteran team, Girardi doesn't seem to be in a position to give.

[302] The best two I have seen were Billy Martin and Bobby Valentine.

[305] It's not bad, but prone to wildness. Of course, the Nats bullpen was downright awful and they pitched pretty well against the Yankees.

[296] Hear, hear.

That was at [308]

[310] I think he's lazy, and is trying to type fewer letters. ;-)

[306] I'm just saying, we reacted to the same thing. Complete with typed laughing ... hohoho

[228] No, not great. But the Yankees issue is OPS with RISP when tied or behind. I'm not sure you can blame Girardi for that. Again today, a lead off double does not score.

[312] "If the Nats win, does that mean the Rays automatically win the Division?"

Yes, due to "lack of participation"...

[310] Yikes. That does kind of fit my personality. (I have a 19 year old son, too.)

Tomorrow I'll tell you about my dreams.

[308] Personally I think you can find a few (LaRussa jumps right to mind), but thats just my point. If you wanna spend your days second guessing every single thing that goes wrong thats fine, more power to ya...but it turns into some sort of empty headed thing after a while.

"A-Rod slumping...GIRARDI'S FAULT!"

"Wang gets rocked...GIRARDI'S FAULT!"

"Swisher swinging at a first pitch strike...GIRARDI'S FAULT!"

it loses its merit after a while

Way to pull the outside pitch.

Oh, fucking Derek.

[308] LaRussa is a good tactician. Leyland, Cox and Sciosa are pretty good too. I am sure there are others if you think about it. But, if you are correct and all managers are basically neutral, why not just fire Girardi to light a fire. That strategy seems to have worked with the Rockies.

Jeter is rather unclutch lately.

[315] thanks william.

for chrissakes another god damn dp.

[324] No kidding. That was horrendous.

Man, Derek is Mr GIDP this year.

[307] Shit, we've been saying that about nearly every opposing pitcher for two weeks now.

jebus, jeter, your sapping my will to live right now ...

Another DP by Jeter...what a surprise.

[322] Heh he heh eh he hh e he he heh he heh heh!

Boy that was a surprise. Seems like that's all we do now is kill any type of rally.

[235] Swisher:
Runners On .919
Scoring Position .792
Nothing to complain about there.

[319] I'll get you a run and coke later...

: )

Weeping, you still here? Since this game is less interesting than it should be, I'm curious--aren't you working on a degree in medieval studies or the like? How is that going, if I may ask?

[337] rum*

[326] uh, Scioscia would drive *you* to madness within weeks.

[326] i'm not totally opposed to the idea, i just think that you tend to blame girardi for too much. i certainly don't think he's a perfect manager or anything close to it, but i don't expect anyone available (including showalter) to be better. unless valentine is available. would it light a fire? maybe, but i don't think we've quite reached the point where that is yet necessary.

sorry guys, maybe I induced that DP, I KNEW he would hit into it the moment he came up to the plate.

I hate this movie

[340] Sciosa manages within the context of his team, and not surprisingly they always manage to exceed their "stats".

Yeah, I'm sorry. This makes no goddamned sense at all, bringing Hughes in now and not the other day when he could have actually been a difference-maker.

I mean wtf?

[326] I totally disagree about Scioscia and Leyland. I think they're terrible.
Cox, okay, from what I recall (I haven't watched him recently). LaRussa, yeah, not bad.

[323] No, I'm with you on this. And I'm saying, if Girardi is removed, he's very unlikely to be replaced with someone who's a better tactician.

[340] Sciocia is SO over-rated..in fact, I think he's a terrible in-game manager, but good in the clubhouse/leadership department..from what I have read/observed at least..

[338] Thanks for asking, mp. It's going very, very slowly. Still suffering through chapter one, which I've been working on for far too long. I've also been working on a syllabus to teach western civ in the fall. At some point, I need to really just buckle down and churn out the diss.

Oh, good, I was afraid I was the only Scioscia-hater here.

[342] Heh heh heh. I know the feeling.

It's Mr. "If OBP is so important, why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"

[341] Maybe I do blame him for too much, but so many obvious second guesses present themselves. This weekend, you had Tomko and the 8th inning when he didn't send the runners while Jeter tried to figure out what exactly he would do. Against the Nats, he had another DP end a game when a SB seemed like an obvious choice. These are not obscure moves in the 7th inning. They are game changing decisions that have played a large hand in losses.

Yanks need hats for bats...

Jobu says so...

[326] Is LaRussa really a god tactician? I mean, he basically invented the zombie-bullpen-usage, with specialized closers. It was a brilliant move when he was eking something out of Eckersley and Honeycutt, but I'm sure he's progressed any. He wears little glasses, so he looks smart And he batted the pitcher 8th, which either means he's a genius or it was a panic move.

I don't really have a strong feeling on this, but I've never really been convinced that LaRussa was that great of a tactician. He does seem to win when he has players like Pujols and McGwire.

hughesy looking very very good

Nice inning, Phil Hughes.

[353] grrr...good tactician.

So, why was Hughes held out of Sunday's game again?

I think the manager's role is overrated, I would think the hitting coach and the pitching coach have a more active role in the day-to-day performance of the team.

the manager maybe makes one or two key decisions during a game, but they are reactive moves to what the game dictates. the coaching staff has a more proactive role in preparing the players for the game, which i think is more important.

[350] ?

[347] hang in there weeping - there is light at the end of the tunnel!

[357] Secret rules?

[357] My guess: they still don't quite trust Wang.

I second Weeping's "[350]?"

[351] well there are a lot of opportunities for second guessing when the team loses. i still think that the double steal would have been the wrong move in that nats game though.

I like angry Hughes

I just hate being told ad infinitum how Scioscia is "the bestest manager in the whole wide world ever!" by the national baseball media.

I mean...he's decent. He's won a World Series...he's taken a bunch of alright teams in a so-so/bad division to the playoffs and been quickly knocked out. I don't think he's done anything more impressive than (I'm just talking resume-wise here) LaRussa or Leyland.

But oh no he's "THE BEST JERRY! THE BEST!"...and did you know how much Torri Hunter loves playing in Anaheim? and did you know how "clean" their park is? and that Moreno lowered beer prices because he's just such an awesome guy?

I just hate the Angels.

All right you pigfuckers, rally!

For the love of all things holy, rally!

Ok, like for instance, bouncing out on the first pitch is *not* what I have in mind.

[353] I seldom watch a LaRussa managed game and come away scratching my head. But again, if every manager is so useless, why are the Yankees paying this one $5mn and accepting such relatively poor results?

[347] I've been there dude. 90% of the diss is psychological. At some point just you have to sit down and do it, but only you can make yourself do that.

Well if nothing else, we saw another decent outing from Wang. Were it an AL game I'd imagine he was going to come out for the sixth so that's progress.

And now it's two outings in a row with 3 ER over five innings. It's positively Chamberlain-ian!

[353] Still, 2500 wins is impressive..I hate that bullpen system too but Larussa is not going to be out-managed in the playoffs (ala Torre or Scioscia)..when the Cards lost in 2004 they were clearly the inferior team.

[352] These guys are fuckin' shitty. : )

[366] *raucous guffaws*

[366] nice kenny bania allusion!

[370] Difficult!!

[359] Francoeur. That quote is on the back of the "Failcoeur" t-shirt. He said, "If OBP is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?" The funny thing is...they DO put it up on the scoreboard.

[367] we've moved from goats to pigs?

yeah i definitely think scoisca is over-rated. he has made some brutal decisions in those red sox play-off series.

[369] Because Cashman messed up (although I agree with him at the time).

Its getting late early here

[369] Do you come away scratching your head less because you have less invested? I watch the Blue Jays almost every night, and the MAriners many nights (hey, it's what we get here)--but I hardly every remembering thinking much at all about the tactical brilliance of teams managers of teams about which I know little and care about even less.

[370] Cheers, mp. I think it's true, 90% is half mental and the other half is showing up. And yes, only I can prevent forest fires.

I'm really trying to get myself into "whatever, it's crap, just churn it out, just get it done and move on" mode to alleviate the pressure. It's sort of working.

Brutal.

[378] Yeah, you know, spice of life and all.

[343] Scioscia is pretty rigid in following a dogmatic approach to "winning" baseball, namely scrappy small ball. Players that don't equate with his preconception of how to play to win, don't get to play. The Angels will likely never know whether Sean Rodriguez or Brandon Wood can be productive major leaguers because Scioscia would rather punch-and-judy around with the likes of Maicer Izturis.

3 weeks, I'd give you 3 weeks with Mikey (and don't forget hitting coach Mickey "Hacker")

=)

I've said it before but tactics in baseball is overrated.

I didn't even watch the top of the seventh - I have that little faith.

[369] "But again, if every manager is so useless, why are the Yankees paying this one $5mn and accepting such relatively poor results?"

Because there is still too much Joe Torre on this team.

Failure to execute...

Failure to have mastery of baseball fundamentals...

Propensity to mail in effort...

Failure to perform in big games against players of equal talent...

Ring a bell?

Honestly William, firing Girardi not even a season and half into his tenure after so much bullshit from the last seven years of Joe Torre smacks of George Steinbrenner/Billy Martin lunacy!

He hasn't even managed this debacle of a team Torre left us with through two All Star Games for Christ's sakes!

"You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit!"

[377] Yeah, maybe now they do, but not back when we were kids, sluggers weighed in at 175lbs and "no pepper" was posted on the wall.

The times, they change.

How is this team 2nd in MLB in runs scored?

[372] True, but Torre has 2200 wins in four fewer years (unless I added wrong), and I think he's a truly awful game tactician.

Mind you, tactics are not the only part of managing.

[388] "Sluggers weighed in at 175..."

Boog Powell. Now there was a slugger.

[381] I tend to watch most baseball games with a keen eye toward strategy, but that's just me. Girardi's gaffe's are coming on an almost nightly basis, so I don't even think it's an issue of him being just as bad as everyone else. When you add in the indecision off the field with the poor decisions on the field, the only compelling reason to keep Girardi is because you don't want to eat his contract. As a Yankee fan with an emotional investment in way too many games, it's a helpless feeling to watch an obvious weakness in this team go unaddressed.

[387] Seriously, it's Torre's fault we're still losing? Wow.

Hey everybody. Longtime, first time here at SNY actually. This remains the best place around to talk (and read) Yankee baseball, and what's compelled me to check in tonight is Phil. Best pitcher on the Yankees. Stuff, composure, everything-wise. Can I still gets a fuggin A-men round here?

[391] Ah, unfortunately, he's before my time. I know not the first thing about him.

[387] “You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit!”

This team has as much talent as any team in MLB.

Boy, if this were an April game, I would not be unhappy about it. Bad results, but good signs: Wang, Hughes.

But, it's June, late June, and I'm more interested in results than signs now.

[385] He manages a team that isn't willing to spend like the Yankees, so you have to judge him in that context. Sciosa has developed a style that has proven relatively and consistently successful. I wouldn't want him using that style with my $200mn payroll, but that's not what he has been called on to do.

[388] Lou Gehrig --- 6' 200 lbs

Babe Ruth --- 6'2" 215 lbs

Pepper was allowed in those days...

: )

[394] Hey, Sliced! Nice to see you.

[393] It's not, but you are a world class Torre apologist.

[394 hi sliced - we missed you 'round these parts.

hughes is definitely looking great.

[396] Maybe on paper... clearly not on the field, Rich...

[396] But is it spread around the field? It's in the infield and the rotation for sure. But is it in the outfield? or the bench? or the pen? I'm not gonna make the guys who are there out to be scrubs...but there are glaring weaknesses on this roster

[395] Ah. Okay.
Great, my unconscious mind and my age revealed by exchanges with you tonight! Oh well, I gets it's best to wear those things on my sleeve anyway.

[394] Sliced! Amen, bro.

Motherfucker, how 'bout that Teix, eh?

And Hughes.

He should have pitched on Sunday. Maybe he's not supposed to be used two days in a row, though? He'd pitched the previous day, iirc, no? That's the only excuse I'll accept.

Sure is nice to have a good glove at 1B.

[394] Hey slugger, where were you?

[387] So, it's Torre's fault that Girardi can't manage the game? I think most people here felt that Torre's poor game management was squandering the talent on the field. Now, the problem is the roster is inadequate? I don't buy that for one second.

[394] AMEN. He's attacking the zone better out of the pen it seems. : ) Lots o' baseball left this year.

[399] [405] :)

Yo Weeping. You've been holding it down beautifully. You and all the Banterers, and of course the Officials: Alex, Cliff, etcetera. I've been following nearly everyday since we last bantered. Can't fully explain why I've been off the Banter, but felt compelled to weigh in tonight. Fuggin love Phil Hughes. He's gonna do us all proud.

via Abe:

UPDATE, 9:26 p.m.: You know what’s astonishing? The Yankees still lead the wild card.

makes ya think...

about what? I have no idea, but makes ya think

[401] I have never once "apologized" for Torre. No need to. His record with the Yankees speaks for itself. What exactly should I be apologizing for?

[410] Lots of baseball left TONIGHT. Line in the sand, remember the..ah heck, just see [4].

We're about to be shut out.

T/his is fucking pathetic.

[393] So these pitiful games they are losing and the way they are losing them doesn't remind you of the last several years of the Torre Era?

Wow, indeed!

Jeez, that rocking is weird and annoyng.

[406] Girardi's excuse was he was saving Hughes to be the "8th inning guy", which I think is absolutely ridiculous logic.

this is goddamn infuriating

Good God.

Are you people seeing what I'm seeing? Sweet Jesus.

[412] Thanks, sliced, that's very kind of you.

[415] They might have to start building that sandcastle tomorrow. Just pathetic.

Wow, Posada has no eye at all.

[418] it is

someone has got to get hot on this team

[421] All that matters is whether Hal is seeing what we are seeing, and if so, does he care?

[228] Sorry, I was too busy doing work to respond. No, I do not. That was not my point.

It must be hypnosis.

[418] Yes, it is. And in fact, aren't there rules about that sort of thing?

I mean, I know it's not a balk, but can you do that ten times?

Wow, great inning, Team, great, inspired baseball.

strike outs, feel the breeze
batting eye, where have you gone?
losing..makes me sad.

[419] Like losing a world series game in extra innings with Jeff Weaver on the mound.

[414] Really?

That you dissed NoMaas for their spot on posts about Torre showed exactly where you stand.

You said that Tom Gordon was the worst playoff reliever ever, dismissing how much Torre overused him, even though he has only pitched 21 playoff innings, In the height of irony, in the same post, you cited how small sample sizes don't mean much.

You also said he didn't suddenly forget how to manage, but you overlooked the fact that he only managed well when he had great talent.

I don't care if you apologize or not, but most of your posts are intended to make excuses for Torre.

I'm optimistic about the ninth inning. Brett will get on, then Damon with a pinch hit safety. If Jeter can stay out of the GIDP...

Ah, who am I kidding?

[429] Was that a haiku? Nice.

Hey Sliced, good to see you back around these parts... :-)

[431], et al.

Let's not revisit the later Torre years. Think of the children! Think of me!

[431] You betcha! See [4].

[435] The children!

[435] Very Grouchovian line, monkeypants.

[430] I would have never believed that the Yankees would wind up with a weaker game manager than Torre, but maybe it makes sense when you consider that Girardi probably was influenced greatly by Joe.

Just like I can't kill Tomko when Girardi brings him into the game, I guess I have to start giving Joe a pass because he isn't the one deciding his fate. Ultimately, this issue falls squarely in the lap of Hal. Hopefully, he isn't too busy running the business to realize that the team on the field is sinking fast. Ironically, Girardi's ongoing awful management kind of provides a glimmer of hope because it is a problem that is easily solved, assuming that someone is actually minding the store.

[431] what is it with you and NoMaas, is that your blog? BTW why do they hate Torre so much did he sleep with their mothers?

I answered those comments here:
http://www.bronxbanterblog.com/?p=20692&cp=2#comment-215189

I am not going to do it again. Seriously, what is your proble with Torre? Tell us how many WS would a decent manager have won from 96-07? 4 is the number to beat.

[439] I can't blame Hal. It's really God's fault.

Ironically enough I think it was only after Torre was given a roster full of "great talent" that his shortcomings as a manager began to show.

Of course.

[435] Sadly, with Girardi, we are revisiting the later Torre years.

Yeah, that's always the danger with Robertson.

after not losing a game in which they gave up 3 or less runs, they will now lose 4 of their last 6 games giving up 3 or less runs.

[446] Not so, sir!!!

Well, now that we're four behind, maybe that gives us license to rally in the ninth only to leave the tying runner stranded at third. You know, just to torture us a little, like Sunday night.

[441] What does Bob Sheppard have to do with personnel decisions?

[446] thanks braves, that stat really bothered me. losing while giving up more than 3 runs makes me feel so much better.

I hate this movie

Torre, Girardi
Why such endless debate here?
Yankee fans, we breathe

[449] Touche.

Stop shilling for Ford, Derek. Just hit the fucking ball and stay out of the dp.

BTW, they yanks will not lead in the WC anymore. tied with toronto...

[409] No, it's Torre no longer holding Jeter's bat... and telling everyone and their dog how "special" he is win or lose. It's the favoritism he played to such an extent that's the reason why it costs more money for FA's to come to the Bronx instead of them clammering to be Yankees for less. It's the "core can do no wrong," and "I can do no wrong," when they've been losing for years. It's schlubs like Francesa, thinking Torre and the '98 Yankees are coming through the door. Even in his book of bullshit, the only regret he had in 12 years was not pulling his team off the field in the "Midge Game"! Are you kidding me? I have more than one regret from last week!

Girardi never stood a chance to turn this around, at least not to date he hasn't...

The best player on the team is telling him "I can play, Skip!" only to go over his head to Cashman and the Steinbrenner Brothers for days off! Does he rest? Hell no! He goes friggen clubbing to South Beach!

Great priorities by the $30M man of truth and integrity!

He's been given a deck of several good prospects and Tex! The rest are jokers!

Try to play cribbage with that!

You can't...

[442] I still maintain his shortcomings were exposed with the loss of Zimmer, which takes nothing away from Torre. Joe was the right man at the right time for the Yankees, but that ceased to be the case toward the end. Perhaps Joe's early success earned him the extra year or two? Girardi, however, has done nothing to earn that right. The Yankees need to move on from this mistake and finally cast aside the Torre shadow. Showalter not only is a well thought of game manager, but in many ways his hiring would be going back to the Future.

wait, can we also please discuss the circumstances surrounding the end of torre's tenure here?

ugh. i rush home to watch the end of this?! fuck atlanta! fuck the braves! they best win tomorrow when i'm there. day after that too... : /

[440] Nope, I just think they are smart people, and when they are unfairly attacked, I respond.

"Did he sleep with their mothers?"

Wow, that is so clever. Can I use it?

I'll read and respond to it later.

I think his importance to the franchise is overrated, but to be sure:

He was better than Girardi is now.

I think Showalter would have won more than four rings from 1996-2007 because even though he may not have won in 1996, he wouldn't have blown 2003 and 2004.

Rafael, fast ball
Gardy, choke up on the bat
you can't steal first, son

[457] You bastard.

[439] I agree that Girardi had been very disappointing, but I still think he's been miles better than Torre. I think, perhaps, time has dimmed just how frigging awful and maddening Torre was. My operating thesis is that if Torre managed this team, Angel Berroa would be starting at 1B or LF, Robertson would not be in the BP (or he would be there rotting), Joba would be in the BP (after proving his grit) but his arm would fall off after 40 consecutive appearances, Swisher would be forever banished--c. 900 OPS and all--because he looks bad in the field, and...well, you get my drift.

He just watched strike three right down the dish.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU LOOKING AT?????

I think the question after the game should be, "Joe, do you regret at all not bringing Hughes into Sunday's game? Wouldn't it have been better to have him protect a lead instead of a 3-0 deficit"?

I'd love to see Girardi's face turn red on that one.

Bama!, monkeypants!, ms. oct.!, RI!, william, et al. I've missed the rapport, but honestly havent felt I've had anything to add to the banter since last fall. I'm 43 now, an age where one can easily question how disussions could go on without one. Check it, Paul Simon did Hearts and Bones around this age, which is a fair barometer. Yo, not feeling sorry for meself at all, just haven't felt compelled to join the band in a bit. But like I said, this is still the best place for the rapport, and this franchise (as much as it has in a looooong time) needs thoughtful souls behind it. Phil's shit is something to rally around, and be excited about. That's all I got.

you know, none of this would have happened if torre had pulled the team off the field in cleveland

[457][461] LOL.

[459] I think that line would be something which would be right at home on their site. After all, are you saying they wouldn't resort to personal attacks or belittling others?

Good job, Damon.

Let the agony begin.

odds are good Jetes will ground into a game ending DP

"X pinch running for Damon."

Weird to hear that.

[465] Phil's the phuture. Now if we could just get out of this stinking present.

Check in again soon, Sliced.

[468] Whatever they do, they do it in a way that makes most people laugh. Maybe you should take notes.

[465] I am sure you had alot to add. I kind of drifted away after the move from the Toaster, but the excitement of the free agent signings brought me back on board. Unfortunately, the overwhelming topic in my universe has been one that probaby has many here hoping I also consider a hiatus. Maybe that's not such a bad idea.

At least he avoided the dp.

If it weren't for bad luck they'd have no luck at all. Well, I guess it was sort of lucky that Jeter lined out instead of hitting a sharp one hopper.

Whatever his faults, Torre did manage to do for twelve years in a row what Girardi failed to do in his first chance: Make the play-offs. Not to mention the Yanks won the pennant most of those years.

hopefully this is Berroa's last appearance in pinstripes...

[473] I thought it was funny. I laughed.

[475] shocking.

Damn, this is a drag.

Tomorrow, definitely line-in-the-sand time.

Bad bats.
See youse.

booooooooooo

[465] Alas Sliced Bread... they took Paul's Kodochrome away...

It's a sign of the times...

: /

[479] Why am I not surprised?

What an atrocious game.

What's that, like six runs in the last five games?

God.

Goodnight, Team. I'm going out of town for a couple weeks, will catch up with you monkeys then. We'll probably be seven games out by the time I return.

Sigh.

is this team ever going to win again?

damn i thought they were heading back on the right path the other day - but it is hard to feel good about them right now.

the offense just isn't doing anything right now.

I'm almost losing interest in this team. It's not just that they're losing, it's that they stink and are boring.

To think some of us hoped the nadir was the Gardner catch loss. Fat chance. This feels like it may go on forever. And let's be honest, the team has struggled most of the year. They had that one streak but before and after that, things have looked anything but promising.

Forget about whether you think Girardi should be fired. The more relevant question is at what point would he be fired? If they lose this series and then the one to the Mets, I think that could set the wheels in motion. If i was confident of that, I might actually root for the outcome, but alas that's just a guess. Any other opinions? Are we stuck with Girardi for the entire season?

[476] Albert King!

another bad loss
stuck in rainy season here
cry over loss of "O"

Ha, poor Wang got hung with another "L"

[488] You hit on the key point: aside from one stretch, this is exactly how this team has played all year. As nice as those comeback wins were, eventually playing from behind leads to alot of near misses like Wednesday and Saturday.

[489] I would hope that losing these next to series would seal the deal. By all rights it should. For pete's sake, he's the manager, it's not that precious.

It was funny when Kay said that Robertson had given up a "big run". Did anyone really think that run meant a goddamned thing?

[494] Not in this house, Hawk...

This is shaping up to be a very ugly baseball season in NY.

and the shit sox have hung 6 more on the board in their half of the 8th. unfuckingreal... : /

[496] i have a feeling i'm gonna be seeing some ugly baseball live in person over the next two nights. : /

[497] best team in baseball, man..we got a lot of catching up to do!

[497] Good team beat the Nationals...