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Slow day here at the Banter. Yanks have to deal with Roy Halladay tonight and he’s been less than his regular stellar self of late. Figure he should have a strong start. Let’s see what Joba Ranks has in store for us.

Nevermind the comfortable lead:

Let’s Go Yan-Kees!

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1 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 2:53 pm

What has become my least favorite day of the week. The Joba Chamberlain traveling circus.

2 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Sep 4, 2009 3:50 pm

Ol' Hoss moseys back into the stable ...

Been traveling for awhile, good to see the boys just kept on winning. What Banter chaos did I miss?

Have a whole bunch of thoughts, watching (at a distance) the team pile up wins. One is that, for this season, the whole 'they are too old and will break down' thing isn't on. That may well be a short-term get-lucky thing, but the old-timers are playing superbly. Jeter, Po, A Rod, Damon. Mo, always. Pettitte. Even with the injuries to two of them, the thing that matters is where they are now, and there are a brutal number of guys on this team with OPS that hurt pitchers. If Yankees win, it is on a deep, deep batting order with patience and power, adequate to good starting, and a bullpen that seems to have become a strength. If Sultan Bruney and Marte can get it together, the pen is a major strength. Add confidence and togetherness (as reported), I guess. But winning creates those...

I remain baffled by the Joba stuff, as baffled as a lot of people here, it seems.

Swisher's 20 of 23 homers on the road. What's WITH that?

3 thelarmis   ~  Sep 4, 2009 4:37 pm

No Jeter or Swisher. Mo didn't throw a bullpen, but feels good. weird lineup with the subs...

Damon LF
Hinske RF
Teixeira 1B
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Pena SS


4 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 4:41 pm

[3] Holy smokes. Probably a good thing to rest Jeter. Maybe Girardi should just go all the way and sit A-Rod (Hairston) and Cano (Cervelli?) with Halladay going on the other side?

5 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 4:41 pm

I just read this on Lohud.

The much-heralded Daniel Bard of the Red Sox:
38 appearances, 42.1 innings, 33 hits, 16 earned runs, 18 walks, 56 strikeouts, 4 home runs. Very impressive for the 24-year-old.
Then we have this 24-year-old player:
41 appearances, 40 innings, 34 hits, 15 earned runs, 21 walks, 60 strikeouts, 4 home runs.
The 2nd player is Mr. David Robertson.

6 Cliff Corcoran   ~  Sep 4, 2009 4:56 pm

[5] If only Robertson threw 5 mph faster people would notice how well he's been doing.

Good work by Pete there.

7 RIYank   ~  Sep 4, 2009 5:17 pm

Hm, I bet Jeter told Girardi he really didn't feel like playing, and that's why Pena gets the start.

8 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 5:30 pm

[6] Whoops. One of Pete's readers pointed it out to him. He was just passing it along. I Shoulda mentioned that earlier. In any case, gameday had Robertson throwing 92-95 mph fastballs the other night. Not too shabby. But not Bard-like as you mentioned.
: D

9 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:09 pm

The Yankees are playing so well that I am looking for things to nitpick now..

The whole Joba thing is baffling..they will limit his innings now but then "all hands on deck" in the playoffs..Can a pitcher go only 3 or 4 innings for a month and then effectively stretch it out to 6 or 7 in high-pressure playoff games? It seems to me this is More likely to lead to injury..Can anyone enlighten me?

10 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:16 pm

[9] I'm not sure how effective Chamberlain will be, but I see little reason why such treatment would be more likely to lead to injury.

11 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:17 pm

[9] I'll nitpick about the Jays instead. It really, really bugs me that they are wearing "throwback" powder blue away uniforms at home.

12 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:18 pm

Yikes, that was ugly.

13 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:19 pm

[10] Well, I was thinking because he will not have gone up past 100 pitches in more than a month, and will have 3/4 of a season's work behind him...when all of a sudden he starts to stretch it out again? I admit to knowing Zero about pitcher's arms and all the recent articles on the subject..In any case, Joba looks like a Mack Truck, with that body and arm would 200 innings in his 3rd year really be a sin? No one's calling for Doctor K 265 IP at age 21!

14 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:19 pm

If that's not an E9 I don't know what is.

15 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:20 pm

[11] I have Curious George on tv here right now, and got the death stare from Mr. OK Jazz Jr when I tried to change the channel...so not sure if Yanks are on this morning or not..maybe will take a ride on the Ma and Pa Yankee radio wave for a change?

16 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:21 pm

[11] I sported this uni on my 12 year old little league team. My white high tops I wore with it were my own.

17 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:24 pm

[13] Increasingly I am coming around to Goldman's argument that the only way to avoid pitching injuries is to avoid pitching.

I do agree with you (I was just tweaking your beak a bit) that it *seems* dangerous to suddenly move Joba from 3 inning to 7 innings. But is that what they are doing? He threw in the 90s the two starts prior to his 35 pitch special last time out. Presumably they will add 10 or 15 pitches each time out for the last few starts of the year, so (I imagine) the stretching out will be gradual.

In the old days--assuming they didn;t throw him for 250 innings--they probably would have simply skipped his turn every so often. I'm not sure one or the other is better or safer.

18 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:25 pm

[16] I pity you.

19 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:25 pm

[14] And definitely an E6.

20 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:27 pm

They may as well give that a hit too. A ball hit at an outfielder that is misplayed is ruled a hit. A ball hit at a ss will be ruled an error. Give me an 'effing break! Official scoring really pisses me off sometimes.

21 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:29 pm

[18] Do you remember 1986? Thems were some wild fashion times. : O

22 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

30-pitch first inning for Joba..awriiiiight!! I think this is a chance to get some air outside and skip a game...Have a good evening everyone, hope we chase Doc early too.

23 randym77   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

Well, that could have been a lot worse.

Could've been better, too...

24 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:30 pm

[20] One of my radical ideas is to eliminate errors entirely as a stat. If you hit the ball and get on base, you get credit for a hit, that's all. This would at least eliminate the stupid official scorer (in this situation), and force people to look at different metrics for measuring defense.

Of course, I realize 99% of people would think this is a crazy idea.

25 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:31 pm

[21] I don't remember my little league uniform, but I do know that I had a spangly collection of really narrow neck ties in 1986.

26 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:46 pm

[25] Ha. My first thin tie was 2 years later. I think they're coming back. lol.

27 Chyll Will   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:51 pm

Ill, I thought I'd seen the last of those ugly (you can't even call them retro since they imply a futuristic sense of non-fashion) unis, but alas, the Jays are determined to make the Yanks and their fans miserable at the end of the season. Bleh.

You'd be surprised how innings can pile up quickly, especially if you pitch well. It would be take a long time for me to compile how many pitches Gooden threw in each of those games, but I'll bet he had low pitch counts in a good majority of them. Drugs was his downfall, not a blown arm, so we can't really know what would've happened.

Am I wrong, or does Joba struggle the most with two outs? If finishing is his biggest problem (next to command of his fastball which constantly goes off its magnetic polar axis), then what would be the best way to approach it with a fix?

28 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:52 pm

This is going poorly

29 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:53 pm

[27] Worse than that, the Jays announcers just reminded us that it's "flashback Friday at home," so EVERY home Friday night this season has featured, inexplicably, those c. 1979 away uniforms. But heck, it's flashback, retro, and all that.

30 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:58 pm

Great. Nuke LaLoosh who doesn't throw as hard. : (

31 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:58 pm

[30] Am I wrong, or does Joba struggle the most with two outs?

According to baseball-reference, this season:

0 outs: 1.61 K/BB, .289/.380/.471/.850 against
1 out: 1.78 K/BB, .251/.347/.389/.736 against
2 outs: 1.95 K/BB .256/.348/.397/.746 against

32 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 7:59 pm

[31] was referring to [27].

33 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:05 pm

The good news is that Joba threw about 60 pitches to get through three innings this time, so he is well on his way to getting stretched out for 100 pitches in October.

34 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:06 pm

Joba's line is worse then his performance. Some real lucky poorly hit
grounders that got through.

35 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:07 pm


36 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:11 pm

Well, maybe I'll finally get to witness a perfect game from start to finish.

37 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:15 pm

This is embarrassing, but how is Melancon's name pronounced?

Meanwhile, the Jays announcers are baffled why Joba is being pulled after three innings. I usually give the home team announcers a pass, but seriously, did no one prepare these guys before the game? Surely the Joba Rules 3.0 are known outside of NYC?

38 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:21 pm

Getting worried

39 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:21 pm

[37] Mel-on-son

40 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:24 pm

[38] About what?

[39] Thanks.

41 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:25 pm

This looks bad

42 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:25 pm

[40] He looks so good and they look so bad. If this team is going to get no hit, its tonight

43 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:28 pm

God damnit

44 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:32 pm

[42] Ah, I see. I guess I am not "worried" because getting no hit is, in the end, just a loss. And I sort of like HAlladay. If it happens, so be it...I'll sit back and watch the master do his thing.

I'm more worried about Joba's continued struggles, even if he was a little unlucky tonight.

45 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:40 pm

I was just saying to myself "Self, you know what this game needs? A bases loaded walk!"

46 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:41 pm

Might as well bring in Edwar to complete the shitfest

47 Chyll Will   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:42 pm

The C-Team is in the hizzy... >:'

48 The Hawk   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:43 pm

Did anyone ever address the fact that the poll about who was Sabathia's main competition for the Cy Young (I didn't realize he was in contention fwiw) did not include Halladay as an option?

49 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:44 pm

Do the Yankees relievers actually have less control than most teams' relievers, or is that just a result of me watching them walk the ballpark every day?

50 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:45 pm

Did the Jays only score one run. My mind is wandering, and it sure felt like they scored about three runs that inning.

51 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:47 pm


52 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:48 pm

Okay. I could give a crap what happens in this game now. They got their hit and I'm satisfied.

53 Chyll Will   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:50 pm

[48] Halliday has kinda faded after the no-trade; aside from a stellar performance against a starting lineup resting some important cogs, I'd say he's seemed vulnerable of late. Same for Greinke during a noticeable portion of the season.

It's too bad Mo doesn't get a real shot at it.

54 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:54 pm

[53] I love Mo, but he shouldn't really be in the discussion, I think. RLYW runs periodic posts for WAR values for the batters and hitters, and both Mo and Hughes rank below the four main Yankees starters. In my view, a reliever would have to have pretty much a historic season to be considered for the CYA.

55 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:56 pm

C'mon Alex. Become a TRUE Yankee! jk. : O

56 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 8:58 pm

That was...anti-climactic.

57 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:06 pm

[49] Do the Yankees relievers actually have less control than most teams’ relievers, or is that just a result of me watching them walk the ballpark every day?

I'm not sure about the relievers' BB rate, but the Yankees BP has the second fewest walks in the AL, the lowest WHIP in the AL, the best K/BB in the AL, and best K/INN rate in the AL.

So I suspect no, they don't have less control than other teams' relievers.

58 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:11 pm

[57][49] In fact, my quick calculations show that the Yankees relievers have the second lowest BB/INN rate in the AL.

59 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:17 pm

The good news is in the battle of the Sox, White is beating Red, 7-0.

60 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:20 pm

From ESPN:
Papelbon was fined $5,000 by Major League Baseball for taking too long to deliver his first pitch Tuesday night, according to Boston-area media reports. It was at least the fifth time he's been cited for failure to adhere to baseball's new speed limits for pitchers and Papelbon says he's been fined more than $10,000 total.

61 Chyll Will   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:22 pm

[60] It's like Monopoly money with them, ain't it?

62 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:27 pm

[60] I saw that. The funny thing is that MLB has long had a time limit: rule 8.04 used to state that the pitcher had to deliver the ball within 20 seconds of receiving it. How often had you ever seen that rule enforced?

Now, MLB has decided to ramp up the rule and sort of enforce it occasionally, and it's being treated as some sort of new innovation.

63 Chyll Will   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:28 pm

I guess it's officially duck season...

64 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:30 pm

From a Time article in 1975, on Charlie Finley:

"Every other game's got a clock. Why not baseball?" he [Finley] asks. "There's a rule on the books that pitchers must pitch every 20 seconds. But we've got guys out there who throw every half-hour. Let's put up a 20-second clock in every ballpark. If it runs out before the pitcher throws, charge him with a ball. That'll speed things up."


65 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:34 pm

[64] Its a great idea.

66 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:34 pm

Hey, Team.

Halladay being Halladay, I see.

Damn, he's good. To shut down a lineup like this in the middle of a hotstreak.

67 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:37 pm

[64] I'd make every batter stay in the batter's box. To take signs he'd simply step back with the front foot.

68 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:37 pm

[64] I'm against it. I don't think games should be sped up just for the sake of it.

I mean, move the game along, sure, but I just don't like the clock idea, precisely *because* it sets baseball apart from other sports.

And for the record, I don't like domes or DH's or 7-foot tall shortstops, either, so there it is.

69 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:38 pm

Hey, it's our old buddy Cervix!

70 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:39 pm

White beating Red, 10-1

71 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:40 pm

[65] Finely was a kook--he also wanted to make walks three balls. Can you imagine? But he had some clever ideas, and he foresaw several developments the game would experience.

I personally don't mind MLB games lasting about 3 hours, though that should be the limit on average. If they want to speed the game, the first thing they should do is shorten the breaks between innings by 30 seconds. Of course, that would cut into commercial time, so it would never happen.

I also would not mind seeing the pitching time limit enforced. Yeah, what the heck, put in a pitch clock. But you would have to prevent the batters from futzing around so much, also. Infact, I bet that hitters would object more than pitchers!

72 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:41 pm

[68] Then they should get rid of the time limit. If they have a specific time limit (20 seconds, but now shortened to twelve, IIRC) they should enforce the rule, and have a clock.

[67] Agree entirely.

73 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:42 pm

Meanwhile, Boston's losing, Texas is winning!

74 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:43 pm

[73] Yay and yay!

75 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:45 pm

Damn, man. Dude is his own closer.

He's really ungodly.

76 JeremyM   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:45 pm

[71] Didn't the idea that batters could call timeout just about any time they felt it like it just pop up within the last decade or so, or am I imagining things?

77 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:45 pm

Hm. I didn't think starters were allowed throw 110 pitches, let alone pitch in the ninth inning.

78 Just Fair   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:46 pm

Better now than Halladay doing this for Boston next month. (shudder)

79 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:46 pm

[76] Batters could always ask for time any time they wanted, but it does seem that the ump grants it much easier these days than I recall as a kid.

80 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:47 pm

Once again, I just miss seeing (or hearing) a no-hitter from start to finish.

81 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:52 pm

Oh well. If we're going to lose, might as well be to Halladay

82 OldYanksFan   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:56 pm

White beating Red, 12-1

83 Mattpat11   ~  Sep 4, 2009 9:56 pm

Also, a few days ago Abraham suggested that this Mike Dunn character could make the post season roster and perhaps his overall walk numbers were misleading.

I know its September and this game was already lost, but I'd have absolutely no problems if we never see him again.

84 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:01 pm

[83] I'm pretty sure that a player has to have been on the 25 man roster before Sept. 1 to appear on the postseason roster, so isn't Dunn ineligible? Or have I mixed up the rules?

85 JeremyM   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:03 pm

[84] There's a bunch of loopholes to that rule though. I think since Nady is on the 60-day they get an exception there for a position player, for example. The old K-Rod rule.

86 monkeypants   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:07 pm

[85] Well, there is one loophole...the K-Rod rule. Plus, according to Wikipedia, the rule states:

"The only exception is that a player on the 60-day disabled list may be replaced by another player from the team's 40-man roster (as of August 31) who plays the same position."

So, Dunn could not replace Nady because he does not play the same position. He could be used to replace Wang, of course. More important would be to determine when Dunn was placed on the 40-man roster .

87 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:15 pm

[85] Nady! Good Lord, I swear to God I haven't thought about him since May. I completely forgot he's actually on this team.

88 The Hawk   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:15 pm

[53] Even with the fade his numbers are still better than the other choices in that poll, I think.

89 The Hawk   ~  Sep 4, 2009 10:24 pm

Uh, can they get David Cone to talk to Chamberlain directly? He sounds like he knows what the **** he's talking about.

90 JeremyM   ~  Sep 4, 2009 11:40 pm

I wish Cone would get the pitching coach or bullpen coach job.

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