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Pipe Dreams


If I could vote for the Hall of Fame, this is who I’d send to Cooperstwon:

Robbie Alomar
Fred McGriff
Bert Blyeleven
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Barry Larkin

I’m not as convinced about The Hawk or Edgar, but sure like them both better than Jim Rice, so I wouldn’t mind seeing either of ’em make it.

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1 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 30, 2009 1:43 pm

Crime Dog: Career .284 .377 .509 .886 OPS+ 134
Black Ink Batting - 9 (246), Average HOFer ≈ 27
Gray Ink Batting - 105 (204), Average HOFer ≈ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 100 (150), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 48 (95), Average HOFer ≈ 50

I'm not sure if the HOF is the Hall of Greats or Hall of Excellence.
No doubt, McGriff put up some excellent numbers, although a sub .900 OPS for a COF during the steroid era is not 'famous'.

Jim Rice was a bad vote. While he was THE dominant player for some years, his overall numbers (128 OPS+) were not great enough... especially when you consider how much of his Home stats were inflated by Fenway (.920 vs .789 OPS)

2 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Nov 30, 2009 2:59 pm

This happens every year, of course, part of the winter games...

I'm with OYF on Crime Dog, though his LOOK was memorable. If Rice is the template, McGriff has a better case, though.

I think Raines ought to be in, and Blyleven. Lean towards both Alomar and Trammell.

Read Cooperstown Confidential on the economics and even the lobbying that go on. HoF means serious money to some of the guys who played before the big paydays.

3 Mattpat11   ~  Nov 30, 2009 4:22 pm

As a young kid (9) during the 1996 World Series, Fred McGriff scared the bejesus out of me. I don't know if that influenced me, but I've been on the McGriff bandwagon for years now.

And he has one of my favorite nicknames.

4 Shaun P.   ~  Nov 30, 2009 4:33 pm

I'm not sure about McGriff. Or Edgar, who I - at 18 - regarded with mortal fear after the '95 ALDS [3]. I'm not sure when I finally lost that fear; that dude could hit.

Those other 5 though? Ought to sail in, AFAIC. Too bad they won't . . .

I'd also like to point out that its absurd, crazily absurd, that Lou Whitaker fell off the ballet. And that if Rice is in, Dewey Evans - who was, is, and always will be better than Rice - ought to be in too (of course he's also off the ballet).

Where's that Veteran's Committee when they could really do some good?

5 Diane Firstman   ~  Nov 30, 2009 4:36 pm
6 ms october   ~  Nov 30, 2009 5:01 pm

[5] fuck off chip - don't let a caught hit fly ball hit you on the way out

[4] i'm with you shaun - crime dog and edgar are borderline for me (but with rice in they should be in) - rock, blyleven, trammel, alomar, and larkin in

7 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Nov 30, 2009 6:04 pm

[5] Praise Jesus!

Then again, he was the devil we knew...

8 OldYanksFan   ~  Nov 30, 2009 7:17 pm

[6] "...but with rice in they should be in"
This is a great formula for watering down he HOF. Rice was a mistake, and there were many others. These mistakes should not make borderline candidates more attractive.

I'm surprised to see that Dewey Evans was only 1 OPS+ pt behind Rice, and was a far superior fielder with a canon for an arm. Rice and 3 great years in a row, and popped a lot of HRs, which created the 'reputation', but Dewey had a longer career and was a better all around player.

Jim Rice... a below average fielder and runner, who had an OPS 130 pts higher at Fenway then on the road, and finished with a 128 OPS+. He should NEVER have made the HOF.

P.S. Mattingly had a 127 OPS+, had a run of 4 great years, was one of the all-time best fielders at his position, and was roundly thought of as the best player in MLB for 2 years. Yet I don't see Donnie as a HOFer, although he was better then Rice,

9 ms october   ~  Nov 30, 2009 7:31 pm

[8] although i did write "but with rice in they should be in" i agree with your notion oyf, that this is how the hall gets watered down (now if you are going to spend all winter advocating for posada as a dh - i will disagree with you)
i guess where i oscillate is what is fair compared to what is right.

10 williamnyy23   ~  Nov 30, 2009 8:59 pm

The biggest objection I had to Rice getting in wasn't that he was a very bad choice, but that it could lead to ones that were even worse. I hope that doesn't turn out to be the case.

As for my vote, I would definitely select Raines and Blyleven, and continue to consider Alomar, Trammell and Larkin.

11 Hugh Mulcahy   ~  Nov 30, 2009 9:21 pm

If Rice is in , where's Fred Lynn?

Seriously, the Hawk was a better player than any of these guys with the possible exception of Robbie Alomar. If it's solely a lifetime achievement award, you can just set some arbitrary numbers and eliminate hte debate. If it's about true dominance, elect the Hawk.

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