I liked Nick as a Yank, and enjoyed watching him here in DC. But Godzilla is a better hitter, so why think of Nick the Slick (his other nickname) now?
Hmmm.....maybe it's a ruse to get Johnny D to lower his contract demands...
As to spry -- well, there's Spry Pennsylvania. and Spry is also the name of an early internet company....... But then I'm almost 60 and people say I'm very spry myself (especially playing 3rd on my softball team, where I'm 25 years older than the next player).
[3] That's one. I think though that with "laden" it's even more pronounced (pardon the quasi-pun) because of the type of guys using the word. I'm thinking of Francesa types, kind of dopey sounding guys.
Seriously, I always liked the guy and all (though he killed us when he got picked off third that time) but why sign a guy who simply cannot stay healthy? I think he'd be a great bench player, but it seems foolish to hire him to be a full-time anything. The only thing that might sway me would be if they're thinking that DH'ing him would suffice to protect him from injuries. Could be...
Matsui has more power. Johnson gets on base more. Matsui is old with balky knees. Johnson is less old with an injury history. The questions comes down to durability, but based strictly on hitting, the two are awfully close, with Johnson probably the more productive batter (since OBP > SLG).
[10] That's okay, when I first read your "I always liked that guy and all (though he killed us..." I was horribly afraid that you were talking about [7].
I'm okay with a DH who can be expected to give you maybe 450-500 PA or so. That seems to be Nick's median.
[11] Another advantage for Nick over Matsui is that Johnson can actually play a position...it's only 1B, but it's a position nonetheless, whereas the Yankees obviously were never going to let Matsui play in the field again.
Now, adding a DH/1B has been poo-pooed on various Yankees' sites, following more or less this line of thought: the Yankees need more flexibility; adding a 1B/DH does not provide flexibility; they don't need a 1B because they have Teix; and when Teix takes a day off, Swish can play 1B.
To this I say nonsense. While not as valuable as a DH/OF, a DH/1B would still add flexibility to the roster. For example, Teix could be given a half-day off (at DH) and Johnson would slot in at 1B, thus leaving Swisher in the OF. Otherwise, moving Swish to the IF puts another weak bat in the OF. The only problem is when Swish needs a rest...the BUOF options are mighty grim. So yes, getting a real LF would be idea. Getting a DH/OF would be next best. But getting a DH/1B is not at all a bad thing, especially one as productive as Nick Johnson would presumably be Assuming that he does not get hurt, which is a whole other conversation).
Nick's a good option for an inexpensive short term DH-only role. But I think Matsui is a better option for that same job description, and I think Cashman thinks that too.
So if Nick becomes a Yankee in the near future, I think it's an indication that Matsui's deal with the Angels caught Cashman completely by surprise.
maybe, but I doubt it. I don't think Cash is missing a lot this spring. I think a better guess is they had just too many reservations about Matsui's knees and decided to focus on Damon, of the two of them. I think Nick is seen as a nice addition if cheap enough, and he MAY be just a move to alert Damon he ain't indispensable here.
I said in the thread below that Nick felt pretty much equivalent to Hideki (did it without the numbers here, which make me look smarter than I am). One injury risk swapped for another? If he's on a one year deal pegged to 400+ at-bats (a little below Matsui money?) this is fine by me.
[10] I'm actually a big fan of Cliff, both as a player when he was in his prime, and of the attitude he brings to the clubhouse. I don't believe in "clubhouse cancers" but I do think that having a veteran who is willing to show young guys the way and how to behave is very valuable. I think he could be a fantastic coach if he wants to be
[15]So if Nick becomes a Yankee in the near future, I think it’s an indication that Matsui’s deal with the Angels caught Cashman completely by surprise.
Isn't that sort of a circular argument? You claim without evidence that Cashman thinks Matsui is the better option, so therefore Cashman signing any other cheap DH option is evidence that Cashman thinks Matsui was better. In other words, your interpretation of the signing is used as evidence for your interpretation of the signing!
The more obvious answer is that Cashman did NOT think that Matsui was the better option, or he would have simply re-signed him.
"All things being equal, the Yanks would prefer to have Damon. But apparently Cashman is not willing to wait to see if Damon’s asking price will eventually fall. So if Cashman acts quickly than Johnson seems to be someone who fits what the Yankees value offensively."
i think nick made of sticks is a good offensive addition.
although i am not one of those that has pined for him for years since the trade - i like the pick-up (if it happens).
he will be a good dh and also isn't someone who has to eat up all the dh abs.
i think this is somewhat like getting swisher last year as 1b insurance if they were unable to get tex. likewise nick is a perfectly fine dh, but his signing does not preclude damon's signing.
also, i like him on a 1 year deal as the damn perfect dh for ys will be a fa next year and i think cash will want the option to go after dunn next year.
It seems to me that Cashman wanted Matsui back if Damon didn't come back, for sure. He said he had offers for both players so by Cashman's words anyway, he did want Matsui back, in theory at least. I bet he was surprised that Matsui jumped to another team as quickly as he did. I seriously doubt if Matsui was still out there, this Nick Johnson thing would be happening.
I like this but wonder if it does mean that there will be no Johnny D. Is there anyway they still try to bring him back if Nick is brought in? I guess I can see a scenario where that happens that involves moving Melky for a used toaster .
[22] You might be right, but wouldn't the Yankees have at least held out an initial standing offer---say one year, 5 million? Are we to assume that they gave Matsui no starting offer, even a low ball offer? That could be...or maybe they low balled him so much that he didn;t bother trying to negotiate.
I tend to believe that Matsui all along was a last case scenario: that Cashman wants Damon, and if not Damon then the best short-term deal he can make from among a fairly deep market of mediocre DH options. He said as much about the DH market several days ago, before Matsui signed elsewhere (IIRC). But I could be wrong.
[24] If Johnny jerks them around for too long, then they will go with plan B, which means no Johnny. But I am not convinced it is necessarily an either-or situation. It all depends on price. I am also not convinced that signing Johnny + Nick (or whomever) means that Melky must be dealt. On the contrary, he becomes the 4th OF/splits time in LF with Johnny. Gardy still has options; Hoffman can be sent back whence he came. There will still room for Melky on the roster.
I've already gone on record as wanting Nick Johnson as the DH. I tend to think that Johnson + Granderson are a more productive offensive duo than matsui + Damon. They're also younger and offer more defensive value.
I realize there's clamoring about matsui but that ship has sailed and I don't think the Yanks were ever interested in booking passage again.
Maybe the Yanks are becoming more like the sox on knowing when to fish or cut bait. That's fine with me.
Plus the savings of granderson + Johnson over the old and more expensive contracts of matsui + Damon make Ben Sheets affordable as a 4th starter. (yes I realize that both matsui and Damon would be cheaper now than under their old contracts though damon's demands seem unreasonable).
[25] My thought on Melky wasn't so much roster space as $$$$ if they want to keep things under $200 million. If they loose the aprox $4 million Melky may have coming that may keep them about there if they sign Nick for about that and Johnny for Abreu type money. I agree on the roster stuff though.
Nick the Stick?...or Nick the Sick?
It is time to bust out the ol' "incentive laden contract".
I don't think I ever hear the word "laden" except in that phrase.
words are funny like that. Have you ever heard the word "spry" not attached to an older person?
I liked Nick as a Yank, and enjoyed watching him here in DC. But Godzilla is a better hitter, so why think of Nick the Slick (his other nickname) now?
Hmmm.....maybe it's a ruse to get Johnny D to lower his contract demands...
As to spry -- well, there's Spry Pennsylvania. and Spry is also the name of an early internet company....... But then I'm almost 60 and people say I'm very spry myself (especially playing 3rd on my softball team, where I'm 25 years older than the next player).
Was Cliff Floyd not available?
I didn't realize (until I looked just now) that Nick J. has reversed platoon splits.
I like it.
[2] A couple other places you commonly see the word "laden" is Matthew 11:28 and Osama bin... (who is probably not as "spry" as he once was)
[3] That's one. I think though that with "laden" it's even more pronounced (pardon the quasi-pun) because of the type of guys using the word. I'm thinking of Francesa types, kind of dopey sounding guys.
Maybe chefs say it a lot.
[6] Heh heh hehe heh.
Seriously, I always liked the guy and all (though he killed us when he got picked off third that time) but why sign a guy who simply cannot stay healthy? I think he'd be a great bench player, but it seems foolish to hire him to be a full-time anything. The only thing that might sway me would be if they're thinking that DH'ing him would suffice to protect him from injuries. Could be...
Sorry, that he heh he heh heh was meant for Matt, not RI.
RI, sorry, my friend, but you're just not very funny today.
[4]
I'm not so sure about that. Compare:
Matsui: .292 /.370 /.482 /.852 /124 OPS+
Johnson: .273/.402/.447/.849 /125 OPS+
Matsui has more power. Johnson gets on base more. Matsui is old with balky knees. Johnson is less old with an injury history. The questions comes down to durability, but based strictly on hitting, the two are awfully close, with Johnson probably the more productive batter (since OBP > SLG).
[3] et al.
What about "balky" (see [11])?
[10] That's okay, when I first read your "I always liked that guy and all (though he killed us..." I was horribly afraid that you were talking about [7].
I'm okay with a DH who can be expected to give you maybe 450-500 PA or so. That seems to be Nick's median.
[11] Another advantage for Nick over Matsui is that Johnson can actually play a position...it's only 1B, but it's a position nonetheless, whereas the Yankees obviously were never going to let Matsui play in the field again.
Now, adding a DH/1B has been poo-pooed on various Yankees' sites, following more or less this line of thought: the Yankees need more flexibility; adding a 1B/DH does not provide flexibility; they don't need a 1B because they have Teix; and when Teix takes a day off, Swish can play 1B.
To this I say nonsense. While not as valuable as a DH/OF, a DH/1B would still add flexibility to the roster. For example, Teix could be given a half-day off (at DH) and Johnson would slot in at 1B, thus leaving Swisher in the OF. Otherwise, moving Swish to the IF puts another weak bat in the OF. The only problem is when Swish needs a rest...the BUOF options are mighty grim. So yes, getting a real LF would be idea. Getting a DH/OF would be next best. But getting a DH/1B is not at all a bad thing, especially one as productive as Nick Johnson would presumably be Assuming that he does not get hurt, which is a whole other conversation).
Nick's a good option for an inexpensive short term DH-only role. But I think Matsui is a better option for that same job description, and I think Cashman thinks that too.
So if Nick becomes a Yankee in the near future, I think it's an indication that Matsui's deal with the Angels caught Cashman completely by surprise.
johnny,
maybe, but I doubt it. I don't think Cash is missing a lot this spring. I think a better guess is they had just too many reservations about Matsui's knees and decided to focus on Damon, of the two of them. I think Nick is seen as a nice addition if cheap enough, and he MAY be just a move to alert Damon he ain't indispensable here.
I said in the thread below that Nick felt pretty much equivalent to Hideki (did it without the numbers here, which make me look smarter than I am). One injury risk swapped for another? If he's on a one year deal pegged to 400+ at-bats (a little below Matsui money?) this is fine by me.
[10] I'm actually a big fan of Cliff, both as a player when he was in his prime, and of the attitude he brings to the clubhouse. I don't believe in "clubhouse cancers" but I do think that having a veteran who is willing to show young guys the way and how to behave is very valuable. I think he could be a fantastic coach if he wants to be
[17] But yes, I was joking about his injury history and don't want him as a player.
[15] So if Nick becomes a Yankee in the near future, I think it’s an indication that Matsui’s deal with the Angels caught Cashman completely by surprise.
Isn't that sort of a circular argument? You claim without evidence that Cashman thinks Matsui is the better option, so therefore Cashman signing any other cheap DH option is evidence that Cashman thinks Matsui was better. In other words, your interpretation of the signing is used as evidence for your interpretation of the signing!
The more obvious answer is that Cashman did NOT think that Matsui was the better option, or he would have simply re-signed him.
Sherman's take:
"All things being equal, the Yanks would prefer to have Damon. But apparently Cashman is not willing to wait to see if Damon’s asking price will eventually fall. So if Cashman acts quickly than Johnson seems to be someone who fits what the Yankees value offensively."
i think nick made of sticks is a good offensive addition.
although i am not one of those that has pined for him for years since the trade - i like the pick-up (if it happens).
he will be a good dh and also isn't someone who has to eat up all the dh abs.
i think this is somewhat like getting swisher last year as 1b insurance if they were unable to get tex. likewise nick is a perfectly fine dh, but his signing does not preclude damon's signing.
also, i like him on a 1 year deal as the damn perfect dh for ys will be a fa next year and i think cash will want the option to go after dunn next year.
It seems to me that Cashman wanted Matsui back if Damon didn't come back, for sure. He said he had offers for both players so by Cashman's words anyway, he did want Matsui back, in theory at least. I bet he was surprised that Matsui jumped to another team as quickly as he did. I seriously doubt if Matsui was still out there, this Nick Johnson thing would be happening.
[21] Heh hehe heh. Very nice, Ms. O. Guy's not even here and already he comes saddled with a choice nick(-made-of-sticks-)name.
I like this but wonder if it does mean that there will be no Johnny D. Is there anyway they still try to bring him back if Nick is brought in? I guess I can see a scenario where that happens that involves moving Melky for a used toaster .
[22] You might be right, but wouldn't the Yankees have at least held out an initial standing offer---say one year, 5 million? Are we to assume that they gave Matsui no starting offer, even a low ball offer? That could be...or maybe they low balled him so much that he didn;t bother trying to negotiate.
I tend to believe that Matsui all along was a last case scenario: that Cashman wants Damon, and if not Damon then the best short-term deal he can make from among a fairly deep market of mediocre DH options. He said as much about the DH market several days ago, before Matsui signed elsewhere (IIRC). But I could be wrong.
[24] If Johnny jerks them around for too long, then they will go with plan B, which means no Johnny. But I am not convinced it is necessarily an either-or situation. It all depends on price. I am also not convinced that signing Johnny + Nick (or whomever) means that Melky must be dealt. On the contrary, he becomes the 4th OF/splits time in LF with Johnny. Gardy still has options; Hoffman can be sent back whence he came. There will still room for Melky on the roster.
I've already gone on record as wanting Nick Johnson as the DH. I tend to think that Johnson + Granderson are a more productive offensive duo than matsui + Damon. They're also younger and offer more defensive value.
I realize there's clamoring about matsui but that ship has sailed and I don't think the Yanks were ever interested in booking passage again.
Maybe the Yanks are becoming more like the sox on knowing when to fish or cut bait. That's fine with me.
Plus the savings of granderson + Johnson over the old and more expensive contracts of matsui + Damon make Ben Sheets affordable as a 4th starter. (yes I realize that both matsui and Damon would be cheaper now than under their old contracts though damon's demands seem unreasonable).
Anyway, make it happen cash!
[25] My thought on Melky wasn't so much roster space as $$$$ if they want to keep things under $200 million. If they loose the aprox $4 million Melky may have coming that may keep them about there if they sign Nick for about that and Johnny for Abreu type money. I agree on the roster stuff though.
[27] Oh, right...I forgot that Malky was due for an arbitration raise. Hmm..
[28] Yeah it seems weird that $4 million may actually be considered "real" money again around these parts again!
all info from or linked at lohud:
robothal says giants have offered nick j a 1 yr/ $5.5M-$6M contract
joe g wants an almost full-time dh (thankfully the rotating dh went the way of bubba crosby)
hal says there is a big difference between what the yanks are offering and what damon is seeking
[30] additional info is ken davidoff is saying yanks and nick wrapping up a 1 yr $5.5M deal
i really see him as a place warmer for dunn next year, especially as cashman keeps saying next year's fa class is much better