"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Nats All, Folks.

Robbie Cano is a Met and Patrick Corbin has picked the Nats over the Yanks, Phils and every other team.

Hot Stove is heating up.

Comments welcome.

Picture by Bags

Categories:  1: Featured  Hot Stove  Yankees

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1 Hank Waddles   ~  Dec 4, 2018 4:12 pm

Here's my biggest fear -- the Yankees use that Corbin money and decide to throw it at Machado. Perhaps I'm getting old and cranky, but I really don't want to have to root for that guy.

2 rbj   ~  Dec 4, 2018 4:22 pm

Rats on Corbin, but 6 years, $140 million is rich for a number 3.
J.A. Happ? $20 million per, for 2-3 years? Fourth option year?

3 Greg G   ~  Dec 4, 2018 6:29 pm

1) I agree about Machado. I would rather root against him.

2) It is a lot to pay a #3, unfortunately Happ's price just went up thanks to Corbin.

The Yanks may have to trade to get their next arm. How about Gray and Ginger Frazier for Kluber? Frazier alone might have gotten this deal done, but now that he has had 2 concussions or one that took 1/2 a year to recover from, he might always be a bit fragile from here on out. The bonus is that the Mets were engaged to get him, and now the Yanks would stick it to them too. Since the Indians drafted him, they might be pretty happy to get him back.

4 Boatzilla   ~  Dec 4, 2018 7:29 pm

[1] I hope they do, Machado will make the Yanks exponentially better. Sign Happ and Machado, and we are good to go, as long as they lock down D-Robb and another reliever.

5 Chyll Will   ~  Dec 4, 2018 8:29 pm

Oh well, on to Plan B.

[3] Word is Cleveland doesn't want him back. Can't blame them considering the concussions. At any rate, his value is way down right now, so trading him now would waste because he'd have to be packaged with another top prospect(s) to get anything important, not to mention it damages the outfield depth. I still believe a trade is a penultimate move; if they can't get Happ back and they are loathe of Eovaldi, Keuchel, Lynn and any non-tendered SP, then they probably trade. I actually don't mind them missing on Corbin with that price tag. Dude chose what was best for him, so moving on...

[4] Signing Machado would be a hard pill to swallow. A-Rod was never fully embraced by most of the fans and A-Rod >>>>>> Machado or Harper. If it happens, it's likely because all the top pitching acquisition moves failed, including trying to trade. I suppose the worst case scenario is the Yanks only acquire Paxton and stand pat while trying to catch some magic off the scrap heap/farm. Still not a terrible place for the Yanks to be in, but you have to expect something big from Cashman regardless.

I would have a hard time accepting the signing if that was what it came to, but I would accept it; when Machado doesn't hustle(or anxiously tries to prove how much hustle he has and plays worse) and when Didi comes back expecting his position to be there for him (that's the bigger mess I'd rather avoid), the stadium will boo him silly, Cashman will get the bulk of the blame for signing him despite the warnings and the season will be another 100-win headache {/sarcasm}. But hey, it would be what it would be and it's not my problem >;)

6 Boatzilla   ~  Dec 5, 2018 3:10 am

[5] I am surprised you buy into the "Hustle Hype". I think it's a non-issue, and most of the guys at RAB agree. How does one measure hustle.I call BS on that.

Of what we can measure, using standard metrics, Manny is a Monster at his position, and excels in every aspect of the game. To pass up on that because of a few isolated incidents and a bad quote, it just doesn't make sense. Like all the sudden he's going to come over and poison the clubhouse. CC, Judge and crew will steer him right As long as he produces fans will absolutely love him.

On Didi, the only sensible way to approach this season is to assume that he's not coming back at all. Anything else is just reckless.

However, I've already wasted too much space on something that has about, what a 30% chance of happening. Sorry for the rant.

7 GaryfromChevyChase   ~  Dec 5, 2018 11:51 am

As a Yankee fan living in the DC area (also rooting...distantly second...for the Nats) I'm sorry the Yanks didn't get a good SP, even though the price was high. I think the Nats' action shows that they want to be a continual competitor, and this ought to (finally!) end the feeling that they are cheap. This signing might actually convince Harper that if he wants a ring, to stay in DC. Not too many teams with SP like the Nats now.

8 Chyll Will   ~  Dec 5, 2018 3:28 pm

[6] Ok. But why does my liking him as a player on the Yanks matter? I’ll like him if they sign him and he produces the numbers you refer to. Again, not that it matters. But I will criticize them if he doesn’t play to those expectations, because he’s not Stanton coming in with clean hands and he’ll cost just as much if not more. Let’s wait and see what happens first.

[7] The saga continues with SP; the GM meetings start on Monday. There’s also still that pitcher from Japan who’s been posted to consider.. And I agree, if I were Harper, I might reconsider; though we don’t know what he knows about that organization.

9 Chyll Will   ~  Dec 5, 2018 3:54 pm

One more thing about Machado... with the monster numbers he’s projected to have, why wouldn’t Baltimore build around him and why wouldn’t a big market team that has little issue spending boucoup bucks on a SP already exiting his prime years after their second straight appearance in the World Series lick up a guy like this; instead letting everyone believe they had no intentions to sign him before the season was officially over? Unless that’s gamesmanship on their part (and why would they need to do that when they are willing to spend)), I have to think something is off about him. Given what we’ve actually seen, it’s not wrong to be skeptical. Players are not just stats.

10 Hank Waddles   ~  Dec 5, 2018 3:56 pm

Here's my thinking. Even though I grew up watching the Yankees chase every available free agent from Reggie on through the 80s and 90s, the championship years taught me one thing -- it's much more fun rooting for the homegrown players. My guess is that most Yankee fans hold Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams, and Pettitte up above all the others of that era for this reason. I was happy to have Mussina, but I knew I'd never like him as much as Pettitte; I was happy to have A-Rod, but I knew he'd never approach Jeter in my mind. (A note on A-Rod: I actually came to love him, not just in spite of his flaws, but because of them. He just couldn't get out of his own way, and somehow I embraced him and rooted for him, probably for the same reason you root for Oedipus or Walter White even though you know they're doomed.)

Anyway, if we were building a fantasy baseball team, you couldn't argue against the acquisition of Machado. He's young and great, and he fills an immediate need. The team would obviously be better with him at short, even if only until Didi returns.

But I'm attached to these players. I'd rather root for Miguel Andújar, even if he struggles a bit, hits .275, and throws a few balls into the stands. Watching him grow -- or even hoping for that growth -- would be more rewarding than having Machado come in and hit .320 with 45 homers. I'd love each home run, but I'd curse every strikeout and every error. With Andújar, I'd accept those missteps as part of a process. So if I were in charge, we'd put Andújar at third, move Gleyber over to short until Didi returns, and find a stopgap at second.

But if I were Cashman, Machado would be hard to resist.

11 Mr OK Jazz Tokyo   ~  Dec 5, 2018 8:08 pm

[1] We're all getting old and cranky :) But I'm glad you mentioned Reggie..he was my guy as a little kid and no one could be more controversial than him. Machado is a HOF talent, you don't pass that up if you can get him.
And the Orioles [5], they are a trash organization (or were, they have new people in now). Signed Chris Davis to a monster deal that everyone saw was bad from the start.
[6] I'm with you Boat. 'Hustle' is nonsense. I'll take Robbie Cano not running out a few grounders here and there when he plays every day and hits .300!

12 GaryfromChevyChase   ~  Dec 6, 2018 11:48 am

Evo back to the Sawks.

[11] I'm even older and crankier. I was a Yankee follower in the mid to late 50's. Lots of home grown talent: Mick, Yogi, Whitey, Moose, Ellie, Bobby R and Tony K. Much of the rest seemed to be ex-A's. But I too love the home-grown talent, and we've been very lucky to see another spurt.

[8] I think Harper has a very good idea about the organization, since his agent is practically a partner with the Lerners!

13 Greg G   ~  Dec 6, 2018 3:58 pm

Nathan back with the Sox. So industry insiders were predicting Happ could get 3 yrs and 48 mil. I predict that he will get 4 yrs. and 60 mil. There is a limited amount of pitching and everyone needs it, and some of the big guys are off the board already.

10) I am with you on the home grown talent. I liked the Yanks more before they brought in Clemens and went after Giambi, Moose and ARod. They had a great team and got greedy. You also saw all of these guys who thought it would be an easy place to win it all.

Part of seeing a player come up, get better and make an impact is you feel invested in them. This isn't to say that I am rooting against the hired mercenary but they aren't exactly underdogs. It is also that argument that the Yanks are just buying the championship by outspending everyone.

Having the best player at every position doesn't mean that you end up with the best team. We need some guys who will put the ball in play and move the runner over.

With Machado, I have less of a problem with his lack of hustle and more of a problem with dirty play. Stepping on ankles is a punk move. Like Arod slapping the ball away from Arroyo. Jeter had to go back to first on that play, that whole series might have turned out differently. If you are a superstar you shouldn't need to cheat to win.

14 rbj   ~  Dec 6, 2018 6:58 pm

Eo resign I don’t mind. I wouldn’t give Corbin the sixth year, except as a team option, but I’d give him the money.

Now Happ’s price has gone up.

15 yankintexas   ~  Dec 6, 2018 8:42 pm

This Corbin is a #3 pitcher is just an excuse to soften the blow of losing out on him. Nobody was interested in him prior to last year’s CY Young like season so the expectations was that he figured it out and would be an ace or a 1b going forward otherwise bayous be looking at Happ or someone else with a far better track record from the get go, OT to mentioned he pitched lights out after we acquired him.

As for Machado, hes not going to be a Yankee. The hustle thing is just a smoke screen Hal and company are using to not sign him. Simply put, they don’t want to spend the money on anybody. Sure they’ll keep pace with the other markets but the days of leading the pack are over. If Happ comes cheaply they’ll sign him or settle on Lance Lynn or waste more assets in the trade market buying high on one of the Cleveland guys or MadBum.

This team needs an ace to win a championship. To win the big games, we need someone who isn’t going to constantly struggle to get through 4 to 5 innings in their “good playoff games”. Right now, the best we’ve got is 3 innings and a cloud of dust CC, and a bunch of maybes.

16 yankintexas   ~  Dec 8, 2018 1:32 am

Maybe they should just sign a bunch of relievers and go with the opener strategy? Since JA Happ will be turning 37 next year if they sign him for more than two years it will make the decision to pass on Corbin because of the extra year he wanted seems even more ridiculous given the fact he’s 7 years younger, not to mention the better pitcher today. At this rate I hope they don’t sign any starter and either trade for one of the Indians or sign 3 relievers and go with the opener strategy for one of the rotation slots.

17 rbj   ~  Dec 10, 2018 8:05 am

Harold Baines? Harold Baines gets in and yet the fuckers on the veterans committee keep George Steinbrenner out?
Kenislaw Mountain Landis, who enforced the color line, and skin-flint Charles Comiskey, who paid his players so little they made more throwing the World Series, are in, but Steinbrenner, who paid players enough so they didn’t need off season jobs, is too controversial?

Bugger the lot of them.

18 Boatzilla   ~  Dec 10, 2018 1:17 pm

[17] I would guess that Baines is a media darling. That's the only logical explanation. Big Stein is a Giant. There's really no comparison. I guess I should do my own research, but I wonder if Charlie Finley is in.

Anyway, the HoF voting has always been a mystery to me. Gaylord Perry a well-known and admitted career-long cheater is in. Barry Bonds is not. Makes no sense.

19 Hank Waddles   ~  Dec 10, 2018 8:53 pm

Steinbrenner should be in, as should Marvin Miller. To ignore the impact those two men had on the game is ridiculous. As for Baines, I always go back to John Flaherty's criteria -- did this guy feel like a Hall of Famer at any point in his career? My answer for Baines is no. I think his election is a reaction to the candidacy of Edgar Martínez. Baines was the best full-time DH until Edgar came along. Based on the Flaherty Test, Edgar is a shoe-in. He wasn't just the best DH, he was one of the best pure hitters in the game for a long stretch of time, good enough that it didn't matter that he didn't play the field. I don't think you could ever say anything close to that about Harold Baines.

20 Hank Waddles   ~  Dec 10, 2018 9:00 pm

The more you look at Baines's career, the worse this looks.

He led the league in slugging in 1984, but he never led in any other category. More damning than this, his best ever MVP finish was ninth in 1985 behind our boy Donnie Baseball, who won in a landslide. Think about that -- at no point in his career was he considered better than the ninth best player in his league, yet he's going to be enshrined as one of the best players of all time.

And if you take a look at the typical HOF indicators used by BBRef, it looks even worse. This was a mistake.

21 Bronx Boy in NC   ~  Dec 11, 2018 10:46 am

[19] Way fewer people* consult me than consult Flaherty, but my criterion is similar: "Can you imagine that era of baseball without that person?" If no, he's a Hall of Famer.

Baines fails both versions of that test. Big Stein passes both. (Full disclosure: I'm on the Thurm HOF train as well.)

*Checked: zero

22 Boatzilla   ~  Dec 11, 2018 11:49 am

[19] [21] Good points. Edgar is an interesting case. Donnie, too, mos def.

I'm probably just a semantic nerd, but the name has always bothered me. It's not Hall of the Greatest or Hall of the Best Stats. What is fame, anymore? I get the feeling some voters think it means "important," some think it means "among the best" and some think it means "nice guy who played hard for a long time and didn't ruffle any feathers."

Apparently you can get in if you're a douche bag (Cobb) or a cheater (Perry) but not both (Bonds).

23 GaryfromChevyChase   ~  Dec 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Lots of talk about Syndegar coming cross town, little Miggy to Miami, Realmundo to Mets.Would suggest Yanks are after Macho.

24 Chyll Will   ~  Dec 12, 2018 10:45 am

That’s all this has been so far is talk. People so busy trying to break news, only to have to walk it right back. I give up, I’ll be back when the significant players have finished playing musical chairs.

25 Greg G   ~  Dec 12, 2018 12:58 pm

23) The interesting part of this potential blockbuster is the timing. I could see the Mets or Machado's agent (Dan Lozano) trying to exact more depending on which deal comes first.

If the Yanks trade away Andujar, they almost have to get Machado. I was hoping they would keep Miguel. You have a guy who is inexpensive and under team control that can mash. His defense might have been able to improve, although he never reaches Machado's D, he also won't cost 300 mil.

I guess hypothetically, the Yanks would be ok if they just signed Machado and play him at short and Andujar at 3rd until Didi comes back, and maybe trade Andujar around the trade deadline?

I'm hearing that Happ is being signed for 3 years pending a physical but other reports say that it is just close to being a deal. I wonder if the Yanks are giving him more dollars to limit to 3 years. The guy is 36. If that is true, is the Syndegard deal for real? Maybe they go with 6 fragile starters. I know Tanaka and CC might like the extra rest, and Syndegard has his own injury history.

I wonder where Gray is going?

26 yankintexas   ~  Dec 12, 2018 11:00 pm

So if Thor comes here and he’s forced to cut his hair, does that make him the Thor: Ragnarok version? Doesn’t he break his hammer in that movie, not to mention in the mythology he dies during the events of Ragnarök? That’s not very promising for the playoffs.

27 Boatzilla   ~  Dec 12, 2018 11:16 pm

Looks like Thor is out, Happ is in. I guess we are done on starting pitching. Now on to relievers and infielders.

28 Greg G   ~  Dec 14, 2018 4:52 pm

Kinsler is off the board. I thought he might be a nice stopgap until we got back Didi, but he got 2 years with the Padres.

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