Let’s cut to the chase here. After a 13-inning Game Two, the Yankees and Angels were tied in extra inning again in Game Three, this time 4-4 in the bottom of the 11th. In relief of starter Andy Pettitte–who allowed three runs in 6 1/3 innings on a solo homer by Howie Kendrick in the fifth and a two-out, two-run, game-tying shot by Vladimir Guerrero in the sixth–Joe Girardi had already used Joba Chamberlain (who allowed what was then the go-ahead run following a Kendrick triple in the seventh), Damaso Marte, Phil Coke, Phil Hughes, and Mariano Rivera.
Rivera came on in the bottom of the tenth following a lead-off double by backup catcher Jeff Mathis off Hughes. Erick Aybar greeted Rivera with a sac bunt that Rivera, attempting to get Mathis at third, bounced past Alex Rodriguez in a play that eerily recalled Rivera’s error in Game Seven of the 2001 World Series. Rivera’s throw hit the dirt because he made it while spinning and falling to the grass on the third-base side of the mound. The error would have won the game for the Angels had Johnny Damon not backed up the throw perfectly, holding Mathis at third. With the infield playing in, Chone Figgins hit a hard shot down the first base line that Mark Teixeira smothered, holding Mathis and forcing Figgins out at first for the first out. With runners on second and third and one out, Girardi had Rivera walk Bobby Abreu to set up a force at every base and sent Jerry Hairston Jr. out to left field to replace the weak-armed Damon in case he needed to make a potentially game-saving throw to the plate. Rivera got Torii Hunter to ground into a 3-2 force to Teixeira that erased Mathis at home, then got Vlad Guerrero to ground out to Teixeira’s right to end the inning.
The catch was that, when Girardi sent Hairston into the field, Hairston was already in the game as the designated hitter having pinch-hit for Brett Gardner, who pinch-ran for original DH Hideki Matsui, who walked to put the tying run on base in the eighth. Gardner was caught stealing two pitches before Jorge Posada hit a game-tying solo homer. Hairston hit for Gardner because Gardner’s spot in the order came due when the Angels’ lefty closer Brian Fuentes was on the mound (never mind that Hairston hit .242/.319/.422 against lefties during the regular season while Gardner hit .291/.381/.400 against them and had a reverse split in Triple-A in 2008 as well).
Moving Hairston into the field put Rivera in the batting order in Damon’s place, which was due up third in the following inning. Rivera used 17 pitches to get into and out of that jam in the tenth, and his spot came due with two outs and none on in the top of the 11th. Still, Girardi sent up third-catcher Francisco Cervelli to hit for Rivera, leaving just Jose Molina and Freddy Guzman on the bench (I assume Guzman can’t throw either, or he’d have been a much simpler defensive replacement for Damon). Facing Ervin Santana, Cervelli struck out, and Girardi went to David Robertson in the bottom of the 11th, leaving just Alfredo Aceves and Chad Gaudin in his bullpen.
Robertson, who pitched out of a jam in Game Two of the ALDS against the Twins in almost exactly the same manner that Rivera did in the tenth inning of this game, got Juan Rivera to ground out to short and Kendry Morales to fly out to left to start the 11th. Then Girardi popped out of the dugout to bring in Aceves to face Howie Kendrick.
Why?
That will be a question Joe Girardi will be asked until the Yankees win this series, and throughout the winter and possibly beyond if they don’t. Robertson looked good against his two batters, getting ahead 1-2 on Rivera and throwing strike one to Morales before running the count full and getting him to fly out. His postseason mettle had been tested in that jam against the Twins, and the Yankees had just two pitchers left in the pen in part because Chamberlain, Marte, and Coke each threw just one-third of a frame, and Rivera had been taken out after one due to loss of the DH.
Pressed for an answers after the game, pitching coach Dave Eiland said, “We just liked the matchup better.” I understand that to a certain degree. Robertson and Aceves are both right-handers, but Robertson is a power pitcher who challenges hitters with his low- to mid-90s fastball that seems faster due to his delivery and a hard-breaking curve, while Aceves is a kitchen-sink junkballer who changes speeds and keeps hitters off balance. Matchups aren’t always just about handedness or even the raw quality of a pitchers stuff. Sometimes they’re about style, and Girardi and Eiland clearly preferred Aceves’s junkballing against Kendrick, who is something of a right-handed Robinson Cano type, rather than Robertson’s power combo.
What I don’t get is why they felt they had to make a move with two out and none on. Yes, Kendrick had homered earlier in the game, but that was off the lefty Pettitte. Kendrick has just 12 homers in 963 plate appearances against right-handed pitchers in his major league career. If Kendrick got a hit, Girardi and Eiland could concern themselves about the best matchup against the typically weak-hitting Mathis (which very well may have been Aceves as well, but I suspect would have been Robertson).
As it was, Aceves fell behind Kendrick 2-0, then 3-1, and Kendrick hit the 3-1 pitch back up through the middle for a single. Aceves then threw ball one to Mathis after which Mathis crushed a shot to the left-field gap that scored Kendrick with the winning run, handing the Yankees their first loss of the postseason, 5-4 in 11 innings.
The loss is a bitter one given the many questionable decisions that led to it, but it may ultimately proove moot. The Yankees still hold a 2-1 lead in the series and have CC Sabathia going Tuesday night in Game Four, giving them a good chance to go up 3-1. Of course, the Yankee offense will have to contribute as well. The Yankees’ four runs in this game came on a quartet of solo homers (by Derek Jeter leading off the game, Alex Rodriguez, Johnny Damon, and Jorge Posada), but they left ten other men on base, not counting Gardner, who was erased by a well-timed pitchout. The Yankees are 5-1 thus far this postseason, but they’ve scored exactly four runs in all but the first of those games and needed extra innings in two of them to get to that underwhelming total.
The Yankees need to turn the page quickly from this exhausting and dispiriting loss. They’re still in great shape in this series, but given their history in Anaheim, it’s easy to see how this loss could get into their heads. Yankee fans should be glad it’s not Chad Gaudin or Joba Chamberlain starting Game Four.
Just win tomorrow and keep on winning.
One of the most troubling things about the move is that Aceves outpitched his ability earlier in the season, which earned him Girardi's trust, but he has come back to Earth ever since, yet Girardi (and I guess, Eiland) doesn't seem to realize it.
3-1 series lead for the Phils
[0] please take that picutre down. it's making me sick.
wow, broxton just had a 9th inning meltdown and the phillies come back with a walk-off XBH by J-Roll.
Phils 3-1 (in games)
The Yankees will be up 3 game to 1 tomorrow.
I think that it should be noted somewhere that the double that Mathis hit could and should've been caught.
[0] Interesting observations, Cliff. By my reading, you question the following several managerial moves:
Reading through and contributing to the fierce game thread, it seems that most everyone watching agrees that these were questionable moves (which in turn forced some otherwise avoidable situations, like Hairston chasing after a potentially catchable ball in LF [6]. Really, there were very few voices---perhaps only one--who would agree with the manager on the majority of these decisions.
This was one poorly managed game, which only exacerbated the failure of the offense to produce (and also called greater attention to the pathetic bench assembled for the post-season).
[0] Sorry, but no mention of the blown chances throughout the game? Or Pettitte giving Vlad anything at all to hit? Or Joba grooving a first pitch fastball down the pipe?
Girardi gets some blame. But it's hardly all on him.
At some point the hitters have to start hitting.
[6] Except Damon doesn't catch it either. Melky or Gardner might have had they been playing LF.
[8] I mention the ten men left on base. I don't think there was anything wrong with pitching to Vlad.
I'd have to see a replay, but the game-winning hit didn't look catchable to me at all. That said, Hairston's Damon impression (hit wall, fall down) was eerie.
[8] Except Damon doesn’t catch it either. Melky or Gardner might have had they been playing LF.
And one of them would have been, if not for the silly move to PH for Gardner with Hairston in the eighth inning, thus eliminating Gardner from a possible move to the field. Had he not made that silly move, if the Angels mounted the same rally in the ninth, Gardner would have gone to LF and Gardy would have been in CF. Of course, had he PR with Guzman, he still wuld have had Gardner for defense AND the DH.
The PH/PR usage was awfully poor.
I'll repeat my list from the last thread:
1. Swisher
2. Melky
3. Pettitte
4. Joba
5. Girardi
Also find a place for Teixeira. Maybe you could push Girardi to #3, but I don't see how he goes higher than that. A sac fly and here or there and the game never reaches the 11th.
And since I don't get Yes and can't watch the press conference...did anyone ask about using two LOOGYs for consecutive LHB? Ultimately this probably had no real bearing on the outcome. But it was a head-scratcher to me.
I don’t think there was anything wrong with pitching to Vlad.
When you're down 3-1 and a man on base? Walk him.
Hell, I would have pulled Pettitte for Vlad. Get the ball to Joba and Hughes.
[10] Sorry, but that's justifiable. Cliff misses the fact that Gardner had a .599 OPS when he came back.
You can't walk Vlad intentionally. The idea is to make him get himself out or walk if he won't.
[13] It's unjustifiable no matter how poorly Gardner was hitting. The odds that Hairston batting, with two outs and the bases empty, would lead to a run being scored was so small that it was not worth wasting the player.
I said so at the time--not a second guess--and I was right.
[9] It looks like Hairston misread/mistimed the flyball.
[10] Correction: PH for Gardner in the top of the ninth with two outs and no one on.
[14] Exactly. So why give him anything to hit? That was dumb with a capital D.
[15] You want a medal? What the heck is it with everyone here needing credit with an "I told you so"?
It was a borderline call. He obviously wanted a baserunner and didn't think Gardner was up to the task. His recent hitting performance is very much relevant.
It's one game. Girardi has helped much more than he's hurt. Who wants to tell me the post-season ERA of the bullpen? Why is that such a convenient fact to ignore?
[18] It was dumb, and I don't blame Girardi for it.
[18] You want a medal? What the heck is it with everyone here needing credit with an “I told you so”?
I don't want a medal, nor do I need one. I am merely preemptively heading off accusations of second-guessing. And I am not talking about the BP. I am talking about a series of poor PR/PH decisions, partially forced by poor bench construction, which you seem to want to ignore. Cliff's analysis is spot on--lots of dubious decisions here.
Yes, it is one game only. A game in which the manager, even in your estimation, player perhaps a key role in the loss (even you were willing to rank him as high as third on the fault list). Let's hope that this was a one day blip, because you would have to agree that more games with this sort of managing would be bad.
The Yankees will win this series. In five games.
because you would have to agree that more games with this sort of managing would be bad.
But the continued inability to hit with RISP would be so much worse. It already has been.
Or do you disagree?
From a poster at RAB:
C says:
October 19th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
What bugs me is that the Yanks haven’t gotten a hit with RISP since the 6th inning of Game 1. You can’t expect to win playoff games like that. Hopefully they turn that around starting tomorrow.
—————————————–
Maybe we are lucky to have 2 Wins,
[23] I don't think so. CC, AJ, and the pen were great and A-Rod is really, really good, not lucky.
[18] If we're going to keep bringing up the post season numbers of the bullpen, I think its worth noting that Aceves, who came into the game for reasons Girardi and Eiland refuse to explain, had allowed three walks and two hits in less than three innings pitched, almost blowing game two in the process.We went to the weak link in the middle of an inning for no real reason and it bit us in the ass.
And even though no one but Joba gave up a run, maybe LaRussaing our way through the bullpen until we reached the dregs in the relatively early 11th inning means that the bullpen wasn't managed all that well.
The issue is that when you don't hit with RISP, it puts more pressure on the hitters that are producing (A-Rod and Jeter really) to come through, on the pitchers to be lights out, and on the manager not to make stupid moves.
[25] Who has actually brought up the numbers? I know I'd love to see them.
Starting pitching hasn't been a problem.
Bullpen management hasn't been a problem.
Hitting - that's a major problem. And yet, they're 5 and 1 and up in this series. They need to win one of the next two games and two of the next four. I like their chances. And only the hitting worries me.
[22] I would probably agree with that, with two notes.
1. The team has won five games, in four of which they have failed to hit with RISP. They have lost one game, in which the manager pulled a series of boners. It could be argued that so far in the playoffs a poorly managed game has been harder to overcome. I don't by that, but...
2. If players don't hit well or pitch well, there is not much that can be done. The manager can't hit for them and pitch for them. But tactical and strategic decisions are controllable; roster construction is controllable. There is no excuse for the coaching staff to make a series of head scratching moves, so obviously dubious that essentially everyone spots them. Poor managing should never be on the list of reasons why a team does poorly in a game or series.
the yankees have lost game 3 after winning games 1 and 2 of a 7 game series 3 times since 95. each time they've come back to win games 4 and 5. let's hope that continues.
Gardner should be starting some games in CF or there's no reason to have him and Guzman on the rooster. And he would have caught that ball that won the game. Let's hope he starts tomorrow and gives the line up a little spark.
[29] I vote for that!
[27] You keep bringing up the bullpen ERA to prove its been managed well. I think that if we've somehow managed to run through all the effective relievers by the time Girardi seemingly arbitrarily decides to make a move in the eleventh, the use of the bullpen turns into a problem.
[32] I still want some hint at why one would use two LOOGYs to get out consecutive LH batters. And that's even before getting to the more fundamental question that you would ask: why is the team carrying two LOOGYs---we all know that you're a huge Marte fan!
[30] I would be fine with that, but not against Kazmir. If you want to sit Swisher, OK. The roster construction has been awful.
As for the pen, Mariano has erased a lot of mistakes by the other relievers and Girardi.
[33] It has to be a consequence of the same match-up mentality that caused him to remove Robertson and insert Not an Ace-ves.
"Poor managing should never be on the list of reasons why a team does poorly in a game or series."
Sorry, but you talk about this as a generality when there's been exactly one move where it's been an issue and in the 11th inning no less. Moreover, you seem to assume managers need to be perfect. Point to one manager that has been this post-season. They don't exist.
[32] Dude, it's the 11th inning. You're almost always scraping the bottom of the pen at that point. If you're not I'd worry it's a Jeff Weaver game.
Girardi has been very aggressive with Mo. Tonight he was aggressive with Hughes. Tomorrow could be D-Rob. He wasn't perfect tonight, but more is being made because of how we "see" causal links. The problem is the offense let them down so much more. Girardi just made the last mistake.
[34] "The roster construction has been awful."
We're talking one player - Hinske. There were no other choices.
[37] Prior to Aceves coming into the game, the Yankees used six relievers. To cover 4.1 innings.
Chamberlain, Marte, Coke and Robertson totaled 1.2 IP.
"Its the eleventh inning" doesn't cut it. There's no reason we should have been at the bottom of the barrel. And if we're at the bottom of the barrel because we decided to play Tony LaRussa for Halloween, that leave the fucking guy in.
[39] You know, they do have another game to play tonight.
[38] Bruney and Pena as well.
[37] Sorry, but you talk about this as a generality when there’s been exactly one move where it’s been an issue and in the 11th inning no less.
By your count, and that one move put Girardi at #3 on the fault list? No, I agree with Cliff and others on this--there were about 6 to 8 real head scratchers, some building on previous mistakes, that contributed to this loss.
[38] We’re talking one player – Hinske. There were no other choices.
Not precisely true. Shelley Duncan was eligible for the PS roster. Juan Miranda may have been eligible (he could have been slipped in under the ol' injured player replacement rule). Are either of these guys good? Not really. Can they hit better than Cervelli or Guzman? Yes.
It is really unconscionable that the bench is reduced to two BUCs who can't hit, 2 PRs who can't hit, and a BUIF who can't hit. I would have at least Hinske and one other position player (Miranda or Duncan) who at least stand a chance of walking into a pitch and hitting it over the fence.
[40]
And?
[41] Well he probably made the right choice there.
[40] So that explains using two LHP to get out two consecutive LHB?
[38] Its not just one player, it speaks to a true lack of planning. Yes, its useful to have a PR speed guy in the postseason. There are some situations where it can be useful. The trouble is, if that guy can't also hit a lick, then you are hamstrung if and when he comes up to bat again. The problem is further exacberated by carrying three catchers, only one of which can actually hit. What it leaves you with is the ability to make a move if someone gets on base with a good hitter up, but once you've lifted a regular player that spot basically becomes a black hole in the lineup.
Now, the *only* justification for taking Guzman at all that was given is that they wanted to start Gardner in some games, which means they needed another speed guy on the bench (which is again a pretty weak justification). We've now played 3 games in the ALCS, Melky has hit like crap and Gardner wasn't even allowed to get an AB tonight. If he's only going to be used as a PR and LIDR then Guzman has absolutely no value, except in the rare situation that you want to have two PR, which would mean lifting two regulars. Note also that Guzman can't play the OF at all, so once you plug in Gardner once, you *cannot* make another move except in a very rare situation. Why? Well, you can't sub for an OF unless you want Hairston Jr. playing there, which we can all agree is a no. Barring injury, you're not taking out any of the IF. So the only situation I can envision is where you want to lift either the catcher twice, or the catcher and a DH. The problem with that situation is that then you likely have at least two poor hitters in the lineup now (since you've taken out Posada and Matsui). Having a speed guy is great, but the way the bench is currently constructed, if you don't win the game *right there* with the move, your team is noticeably weaker from there on out. The Yankees currently do not have a credible PH threat on their team unless Posada is sitting, which is not ideal.
Now Hinske is a real hitter, with some pop. He can play any of the corner positions (no he's not a gold glover, but he can track a ball and throw it). The entire string of piss poor batting/DR moves today can be traced to not having Hinske on the team. You could have PR with Gardner, and when his spot came up again in the lineup, could then have PH with Hinske. At worst then Hinske becomes their DH and we're not left with the comedy of Frankie Cervelli as our PH "threat" off the bench.
Guzman just doesn't belong on this team if Gardner isn't starting in CF, or even being allowed to bat so we don't lose the "DH". I don't care about credit or second guessing (I did say this before the series started), and I don't care if this was Joe's call, or Cashman or Santa Claus'. What I do care about is that if they make it past the Angels this is fixed. And fixed fast.
What's troubling is that all year Girardi did a great job of juggling guys in the pen, going with guys who were pitching well, ditching those that weren't. But in this series, instead of playing to the strength of the bullpen, he's undermined it, firing all his bullets far too early. His insistence at finding a way to get Aceves in the game -- A Bridge Too Far, if you will -- is more than troubling. The botching of the Damon/Gardner/Hairston situation has been covered, but as I was tracking the game, I would even have preferred to see Mo hit for himself in the eleventh, just so he could throw the bottom half. In a close playoff game, I don't think you manage under the assumption that your team will score in their next at bat, especially considering how cold the bats have been. I think you have to structure your bullpen to keep the other team down as long as possible, but Girardi doesn't have the patience for that. I guess he and will just have to agree to disagree.
Yes, there could've been more offense, yes, there were a lot of early missed opportunities, but I still lay this loss at Girardi's feet. Period.
[46] God bless you, sir.
[48] Thanks, I've been riled up all day about it. Reminded me of when the other Joe used to PR for Giambi in what seemed like the 3rd inning, then act mystified that no one could hit after that.
[49] Even worse, I think was Girardi's tendency to run for Teixeira this season. I know he's not a speed merchant by any stretch, but it always bothered me to see the team's best hitter sitting on the bench as early as the eighth inning.
there is nothing I hate more than a managerial loss, a game where the manager gets in the way of his own players. I hate the overemphasis in baseball on strategery. If I wanted a fucking "chess match", I'd play chess. I want to see players make beautiful plays. I don't want to see old men in dugouts play hunches.
(yes, I realize we're not hitting.)
[51] At least Alex Rodriguez isn't batting 8th so Melky can get some more ABs ;)
[44] Bruney over Marte restricts Girardi's propensity to overmanage the pen.
Pena over Hairston prevents Girardi from playing Hairston in the OF.
Can we agree this PS roster is too shallow? Too many "tools" and not enough meat or versatility. It seems like the Yankees have actually been hurting themselves when they pinch run, since that spot always becomes a black hole two innings later, especially when they PR for Matsui. Wasn't Arod IBBed tonight to face an easy out in Matsui's place? And if that spot comes up a second time and Yankees aren't winning, they're really fucked.
The two lefty specialists aren't used effectively. (Two guys that are only trusted for one batter?)
THREE catchers. Why couldn't A.J. pitch to Cervelli, who can be pinched hit for, or who can pinch run for Posada late game if the Yankees really need someone to score on a hit (but not steal).
Finally, if Gardner started, Yankees would still have a speedy pinch runner in Guzman, and Melky could pinch hit for Guzman if he pinch runs for Matsui. This is probably the best pinch hitter option with this roster configuration, except Melky is pretty cold with the bat right now.
I probably didn't bring much new to the table with any of these ideas, but does any of this make sense? It's seems messy matter what. I like the Yank's chances best when they do the least amount of pinch-anything, since small ball and RISP hasn't worked out much.
[53] I just can't watch the Bruney Special (walk and booming double) in a one run game.
i'm still pissed.
and...i have noticeably more gray in goatee than i did 12 hours ago... : /
[54] Well put. We don't need a DR on this team. Quick, name the first ever DR and win a box of Cracker Jack. Actually, I think Alex did a column on him once.
[54] since the Yankees never pinch run before the 7th and usually the 8th inning, the idea that that spot becomes a black hole two innings later shouldn't matter. Except that our offense is mostly performing far below its abilities.
OK kids ... take a look at this video, and tell me if Mariano was doctoring the ball:
http://www.youtube.com/v/KihPKUZni8Y
[59] It seems so. Looked like spit to me.
I had to leave the TV after the top of the 11th, so I wasn't around the Banter to rant last night. Luckily I could pick up WCBS despite being 500 miles away from NYC. When Jon Sterling calls a manager "out Larussa-ing Tony LaRussa," then you've got a problem. I sat in my car and yelled at the radio "why?" "why?" when Girardi came to get the ball from Robertson. What does this do to that kid's psyche? You're telling him that he can't get out a guy who struggles against righties, in a tie game with no one on base and two outs?
All of the decisions in this game build upon the other ones to make one terribly managed game. And the decisions themselves are related to a roster that, beyond the starting 9, was put together very poorly. The decision to lose the DH for a better arm in LF is fine if you have someone capable of hitting to fill that spot. The Yankees had Cervelli, Molina, and Guzman... This the top of the roster was built to win games with hard hits, and that's what the Yankees gave in the first 8 innings. The bottom of the roster is inexplicably taylored to playing some kind of weird version of small ball that almost never, ever, works out.
Anyway, this is a "Girardi Loss," plain and simple. Yes, the Yankees struggled with RISP. But if the hitters are playing the same way and a saner manager is at the helm, the Yankees could have won that game. I'm just way too frustrated to type anything more coherent about it, plus I think tommyl said [48] sums up my feelings pretty well.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll just cite tommyl's [48] and be done. Today's a new day.
Some of the hyperbole last night, though - wow. I was upset too, but wow. I don't think I'm going to go back through that thread.
[59] Damn, that's like watching Santa Claus take a piss.
[61] Could have and should have are two entirely different things.
Here's my problem with pining it on Girardi. Say he leaves Robertson in for one more out. Who here is confident they score one run in the 12th? And who says whoever pitches the 12th is effective? Chances are it's still Aceves. I have a very hard time believing either scenario was going the Yankee way last night.
CC going on short rest means they need the bullpen tonight. I feel very good that everyone except Hughes is available. And the Angels' bullpen isn't exactly well-rested. Their two best relievers - Oliver and Jespen are both on fumes. It's all on CC. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
[59] looks like the angle of the camera is playing tricks. Maybe that is what I want to see but does anyone think he could seriously spit on the ball in front of all those cameras and fans and get away with it?
Who here is confident they score one run in the 12th? And who says whoever pitches the 12th is effective? Chances are it’s still Aceves.
Regardless, that doesn't mean you change pitchers when one is throwing well. If you're in extra innings, and you don't have faith in your offense to push across one run, then you stick with the effective pitcher until he can't go any longer. There is no reason for Girardi to burn through his staff like he did in games 2 & 3. He has 3 long men in Joba, Gaudin and Aceves, he has 2 LOOGY's in Marte & Coke. Barring injury or high leverage, there is no reason the "long men" shouldn't be able to pitch through the lineup once. There is no reason that in back to back games that Gaudin should be the last man standing.
Having said that, Aceves gave up a fly ball that should've been caught.
Really good, clear recap. I now see the Hairston move(s?) looms larger than I realized at the time.
Chamberlain, Marte, and Coke each threw just one-third of a frame
Red flag, btw
I was all for having two speed guys because of the slowness of the lineup, but it was a mistake. The best bat off the bench is Hairston and that's a problem. If the Yanks make it to the WS, I hope they find their way to getting Hinkse on the roster, at least.
[67] Putting aside the back to back issue with Marte/Coke with I agree with, Chamberlain pitched 1/3 frame because he sucked. Marte should never pitch more than to back to back lefties. And neither should Coke.
Via NoMaas:
Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599
Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481
Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539
Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390
Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459
And the Yankees have only lost one game this post-season...
[70] And they may have lost none but for Girardi.
[66] I see only one Hairston move that can be questioned and a lot of folks backed it in the game thread for good reason - because Gardner doesn't hit lefties well. If Hairston doesn't PH for Gardner you move Gardner to CF in the 10th inning anyhow. Once Hairston PH for Gardner, moving him to LF was the right move. I really don't see a better move at that time so I'm not clear what the issue is with Hairston going into LF.
I love how Girardi has been using the bullpen. While folks here are focusing on lefty-righty matchups, Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories. I think this is good. With our offense, even with the pinch runners in there, and the starts we've been getting there is no reason our bullpen should see letting in 2 runs over 4 2/3 as a problem. Bottom line is that because we're not scoring runs we're having to go deeper in these games than we would normally expect. Girardi is playing the odds which quite honestly should be in our favor except that our #9 hitter is our 6th best hitter. 6 of our 9 starters are hitting worse than their regular season averages in this series. I don't have the other stats handy sorry.
On another note, Melky is our 6th best hitter so far in this series. Not our worst so stop pretending he is our worst. Aceves had a 2.51 ERA in September and had thrown 3.1 innings of shutout ball in October coming into this series. No, citing his mid-season dead arm period ERA to claim that he somehow had huge early season and late season splits is not accurate.
[59] Where was he standing?
You can go to your mouth off the mound. Can you spit?
[72] I'd rather have Gardner in the field though, and according to the recap above, Gardner is better against lefties. Either way, there were two outs already and it hamstrung the team defensively for at best a nominal upgrade at the plate - not the wisest course late in the game.
[74] I agree that I'd rather have Gardner but the move itself of moving Hairston into the OF actually improved our defense. But yes, if Gardner was out there we'd be much better off. The splits aren't as obvious as they seem since Hairston hit .345 against lefties in 2008 but it is a worthwhile point.
[63] Yes, there's no way of telling if the Yankees would have scored in the top of the 12th, or if the Angels would have scored in the bottom of the 12th. The point is, though, that not scoring in the top of the 12th is better than not playing the 12th at all, which is what happened. The managers job is to utilize the roster so that the team has the best chance of winning. He can't guarantee anything, but deploying the right players at the right time can make a big difference. Girardi failed miserably at that last night.
Aveve's FIP by month:
S-O 1.90 16.2
A 4.04 19 IP
J 5.56 15 IP
J 4.41 13.2 IP
M 3.20 19 IP
So he had two good months of pitching at the beginning and the end of the season (35.2 IP) sandwiched around there not so good months 47.2 IP). I don't see how that makes him trustworthy.
[75] Yeah, the reason I said "move(s)" with the "s" in parentheses was because the PH begat Hairston instead of Gardner if LF.
It really is only one move, but one which, once made, necessitated the second (as Hairston > Damon - I guess - in LF).
[77] I think based on his work in the ALDS alone, he should have been left alone till it was absolutely necessary. Aceves didn't look good from the start.
[77] I don't know much about FIP but I doubt I can trust anything that makes his June look bad.
Question Girardi all you want -- it is deserved. But if just one Yankee hitter had come through with RISP, it wouldn't have gotten to the 11th. Heck, I can't even get mad with Andy over the Vlad homer. That's going to happen, maybe not as frequently these days, but Vlad's still gonna bite you.
"Girardi has clearly been thinking about pitching styles v hitting styles and histories"
Exactly. And it's turned out pretty darn well. The guy is thinking about what types of pitches, not just handedness, that hitters like. That's pretty advanced shit. No wonder he didn't want to defend it.
Again, what's the bullpen's post-season ERA? Why does no one want to discuss that? Cause you can't criticize one move in isolation from the entire strategy. Well, you can. It just doesn't mean much.
[81] Yeah, I'm not that mad at Andy. But grooving one to Vlad with a runner on was pretty silly.
[82] Virtually everyone has noted how well the pen has pitched in the postseason. Besides Mariano being great, a large reason for their effectiveness has been Robertson's work getting out of that jam in the Minnesota series.
If Girardi doesn't pull some of that shit, yes....
We could have won. Maybe. Extra innings, Away park, Mo and Phil burnt, Matsui out..... but still, Yes.... we could have won.
So, while Girardi did NOT lose this game, he did contribute to the loss.
I myself, prefer to look at the players rather then the manager.
I prefer to believe that the players impact on the game is far, far greater then the managers, which when all is said and done, is ALWAYS guess work.
I prefer to think that:
a hit, HBP or BB by Cano (1st and 2nd, no out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger
a hit, HBP, BB, grond ball, long fly by Swisher (1st and 3rd, 1 out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger
a hit, HBP or BB by Melky (1st and 3nd, 2 out), makes the 'could have' Won much stronger
And that identical situation happened again, with another 3 chances to 'could have' Won blown.
And there were other chances.
So yes, Girardi had a TERRIBLE game and contributed to the loss.
But a number of other failures also contributed to the loss.
The players could have made Girardi's moves mute.
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[70] "And they may have lost none but for Girardi."
Again, I guess this MAY be true, but again, I really think it is much MORE true that " they may have lost none but for..." Johnny Damon: .214/.241/.357/.599, Mark Teixeira: .120/.241/.240/.481, Robinson Cano: .200/.259/.280/.539, Nick Swisher: .136/.208/.182/.390 or Melky Cabrera: .200/.259/.200/.459.
A manager has a number of bullets in his gun. But if they all misfire, he's fucked.
If ARod had hit well in previoius years PS games, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the losses. Other players performed worse. And had Girardi acted differently last night, the outcome MAY have been different. But he is NOT to blame for the loss. The players, the guys who ABSOLUTELY have direct impact on the outcome, performed worse.
I am NOT defending Joe. He shit the bed last night. One guy, who never swings a bat of throws a pitch, had a very shitty game. And he certainly shared the blame for failing at his job last night.
But WHY is everyone here ignoring all the other player opportunities to Win this game?
Forget Girardi. This team wins on a combination of very good pitching and thunderous hitting. That's what got us here. And that's what will get us further. I said it in [13] of the previous post.
We will NOT win the WS without quality, timely hitting.
And if we get it, Girardi is out of the picture.
Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss.
The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss.
[84] Well, that's Girardi, to say nothing of his development of Coke and Robertson. I mean, the reason people are even harping on the use of the bullpen is because the guy created the bullpen in the first place.
[85] Girardi CONTRIBUTED to our loss.
The Players CONTRIBUTED FAR MORE to our loss.
It would be hard for a manager to contribute more than the players on the field, in any capacity. Impossible, maybe. Everyone understands some of the hitters aren't hitting. It has been noted many times, before and after Girardi going to Aceves. I think the problem is that Girardi contributed more than a a manager ought to, in other words, he over-managed, he butted his way into a loss that he needn't have contributed as much to as he did.
[87] Agreed. Girardi's FLAW is his overmanagement of the BP. He is too swayed by SSS and matchups. However, the Angels won NOT because of Mike Scioscia, but because 2 shitty hitters (Jeff Mathis: .211 .288 .308) performed while 4 decent to great hitters (PS: Cano-.200, Melky-.200, Swish-.136, Tex-.120) did not.
Scioscia managed terribly... like leaving Mathias in at 3rd base. Are we talking about a Scioscia loss? Over the years, Scioscia has made many glaring errors (gut feelings I guess). But they still beat us. Why?
Because their players performed when it was needed.
And lets add JD (.214 .241 .357 .599) to the above list of 4.
If I told you 2 weeks ago that in the first 6 PS games, 5 of our STARTERS would have an OPS under .600, with 3 of them having an OPS under .500, how many games would you guess we had won of the 6? 2 of them? 3?
Our SP, BP, ARod and Jeter have us ahead, while we should be on life support.
I'll say it for the 4th time.
Fuck Girardi, Scioscia, the coaches and the GMs!
If we don't hit, we don't win.
Das it!