"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Straight From the Sewer

It’s hot and damp in New York. AJ Burnett goes for the Yanks tonight and all eyes are on the $82 million knucklehead. With Serge Mitre throwing tomorrow afternoon, it behooves Mr. Burnett to not only pitch well, but deep into the game. Otherwise, he g’wan here it but good, Bronx Cheer Style.

Man-up, tough guy, and let’s go Yan-kees!

(p.s. I don’t think I’m going out on a limb here when I tell you that I think Alex Rodriguez will hit career dinger 600 and more this weekend.)

[Picture by Bags]

Categories:  Bags  Bronx Banter  Game Thread

Share: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email %PRINT_TEXT


Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:15 pm

Hey, where is everybody??

I think you might actually be going out on that limb, AB. You're not worried that your namesake will "press" all weekend as those special balls come flashing by?

2 Just Fair   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:19 pm

[1] Here. Missed all the fun last night. Caught a few innings at various joints around town. Go Yankees!

3 Just Fair   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:24 pm

Love me some Robbie! Word!

4 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:24 pm

[2] Well, you're getting some fun tonight, anyway.

5 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:25 pm

Some of us were thinking last night that if Posada doesn't start ripping, Cano is going to be walked a lot. Well, he just swung at ball four. But I'm not complaining.

6 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:25 pm


7 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:26 pm

double the pleasure, double the FUN!!

8 Just Fair   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:27 pm

Congrats, Jorge! A little bizarre how badly he wanted that ball so quickly. Ah, well!

9 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:28 pm

Well, just the three of us, but it's the quality that counts, right, amigos?

10 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:29 pm

Thelarmis (who isn't watching), that was Jorge's 1000th RBI.

11 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:31 pm

[9] 3 is my favorite number!

[10] ooh, thanking you on that note, very cool! ya know, i'm more excited about a-rod's 300th stolen base than the 600th homer. i *can't* wait for him to be the 7th member of the 300-300 club!!! (and 3rd of the 600-300 club...)

12 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:34 pm

[9] 3 and half, I'm lurking...

[11] thelarmis, Mays and Bonds the other 600-300 guys? Jeez, A-Rod is really vaulting into the top-10 all time players list now..

13 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:36 pm

3 1/2 is my favorite number, almost!

14 Just Fair   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:38 pm

Nice play, This from the theater of the obvious, but hopefully this 600 homer thing is over between now and about 15 at bats.

15 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:38 pm

good AJ!

oh, and RI - per the old thread... hank 'score truck' waddles, was right:

bard = shakespeare, hence my "spear shaker" name.


16 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:39 pm

Oh, hey, thelarmis and Mr OK, both, perfect. Check this guy out. (It's a YouTube, about 6 minutes long.)
Actually, I was hoping to catch Weeping, too -- you'll see why toward the end.

17 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:40 pm

[15] Yeah, as soon as I saw Hank's explanation I knew it must be right (but the thread seemed to be dead so I didn't chime in).

18 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:42 pm

[12] yup, bonds & mays. of course, bonds is 700-500, which is just sick. sick. bonds, mays, dawson and soon a-rod, only ones with 400-300. the current 6 in the 300-300 club:

barry bonds, willie mays, andre dawson, bobby bonds, steve finley and (my man!) reggie sanders.

a-rod is one measly stolen base away. i've been dying for it to happen. last bag he took, was a D.I. frustrating!

i'm still looking for future members: boBBy, soriano, beltran, mike cameron. those guys are closest and i hope all make it in...

19 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm

[16] Is that some Brazilian talent program? The guy certainly put some energy into it!

20 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:51 pm

[17] i'll check it out later, when i'm back. (if i remember...)

gotta go eat and practice some marimba...

21 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:53 pm

[19] I love the fake English, is all. He does seem to have a screw loose, which I figure is a plus for a musician, but it's the fake English that I thought was cool.

22 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:55 pm

AJ looks very relaxed out there tonight (4 1/2).

23 Just Fair   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:57 pm

Robbie crushes balls.

24 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 7:58 pm

[22] As does A-Rod! I'm very happy about that.

Hey, OYF, did you see the RAB note, passed along from Rosenthal: the Yankees are alleged to be the front-runners for Dan Haren? Ivan Nova likely to be the centerpiece, if it goes through.

25 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:19 pm

[24] Saw the Haren rumor on MLBTR.com, but Nova wasn't mentioned... only young, high end pitching prospect(s). Jeez,,, I hate to lose our talented kids.

26 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:19 pm

I'm calling #600 in next AB..400ft to right-center!

27 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:20 pm

Room for another?

Big rain coming (Tornadoes in Jersey). Yanks have to get through this half fast.

28 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:22 pm

Hi ken-cryer.
And, your wish is AJ's command!
And his command seems to be improving as the game progresses. He didn't strike anyone out at the beginning, now two this inning.

29 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:26 pm

Speaking of Bonds. Do you folk remember the home run he hit at the old Yankee Stadium? The ball was a rising liner to the upper deck. It looked like a fishing weight that was cast. It unworldly.

30 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:28 pm

Nice they waited for Arods AB before they put the tarp on.

31 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:28 pm

Okay, well, I guess I'll go practice the marimba or something. See youse later.

32 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:38 pm

Bummer for AJ, he was in control and probably won't be coming back.

33 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 23, 2010 8:43 pm

Any weather updates?

34 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:05 pm

Amazing hard rain passed through, but has let up. The field, even with the modern drainage is swamped. Rain is forecast on and off for the rest of the night. We'll see.

35 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:09 pm

Hey! The tarp is being taken off the field!

36 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:11 pm

Same deal in Cleveland. Tribe with a 2-1 lead after five full, and they're in rain delay. If both games are called we stretch our Division lead.

37 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:18 pm

[36] are you playing with 4 mallets?

38 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:20 pm

[37] No, twelve. You?

39 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:26 pm

[37] Drummer stuff?

40 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:29 pm

[38] eleventy. in each hand!

41 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:31 pm

[39] close - percussion. marimba, is my other main instrument. you generally play it with 4 mallets, 2 in each hand. RI & i, playfully joke around about all kindsa stuff here! : )

42 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:32 pm

[40] Ah, yes. For polyrhythms.

[39] Yes, except that I'm just pretending and thelarmis is fo' real.

43 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:34 pm
44 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:45 pm

[43] I particularly like the ten-fingered, melodic percussion in that jam.

But I have no idea what "the low spark of high-heeled boys" means.

45 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:48 pm

Chad Gaudin.

46 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:52 pm

[45] So said LoHud. Hey, everybody!

With Mitre going tomorrow, I really hope Gaudin can take one for the team and go 4 innings here.

[24] I hadn't heard that, but I'm intrigued! I like Nova, but there are others coming behind him. To get Haren would be excellent, as long as they don't give up any of the big ones.

47 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:54 pm

[46] What about Nova plus Joba?

48 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:56 pm

[47] Funny you should ask!

Supposedly the offer is Joba Chamberlain, Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister for Haren.

49 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 9:58 pm

[48] Yeah, though I'd say that's a grain-of-salt kind of rumor.

To my mind, McAllister is still pretty valuable. I'm not sure I like that trade. Although Dan Haren would be awfully good to have for the next couple of years.

50 Chyll Will   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:02 pm

[48] Egad. Well, at least Joba will be closer to home and he could work out his issues there. But is that it? How does that help clean up the bullpen?

51 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:04 pm

The Grinch in his comeback start vs Seattle, now on tv here! Hope he gets lit up..

52 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:04 pm

[49] I'd much rather have Nova than McAllister.

McAllister's big, but doesn't have any plus pitches and Nova could be useful in the pen this year.

I'd give up that package in a heartbeat if it's true though ...

53 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:06 pm

[52] The thing is, we pretty much know how good Nova is, and "useful in the pen" is nice but basically means a trading chip. McAllister could be a real big league starter. Or, he could be nothing.

54 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:08 pm

[50] I assume it would mean Hughes would move back into the pen after Andy returns ...

55 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:10 pm

[53] I haven't given up on McAllister, but given how badly he's pitched this year - his first full year experience at AAA - I would miss him just a little bit.

I'd miss Nova more, but I think they can survive without him. George Kontos - who was ahead of both guys last year, before he needed Tommy John surgery - is back and has been pitching out of the bullpen so far in the minors. I have to believe the thought is maybe he could be used in the bigs.

Trading Joba, even for a guy as good as Haren, would be a mistaken IMHO. Not onyl do I think Joba will still be an excellent big league starter, him + Nova + McAllister = too much.

56 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:10 pm

The kid feels no pressure because he had cancer as a kid.
Playing baseball at Yankee Stadium? FUN!


Every fucking time someone has a dead parent or was raised by wolves or whatever, Kay says that means they're cool as cucumbers playing baseball.

57 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:10 pm

[54] And there's the best reason of all to NOT trade for Haren.

58 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:10 pm

Similar situation in Cleveland, but they've lost Fausto Carmona with a 2-1 lead due to their rain delay. That's worse than losing AJ with a 4-0 lead.

59 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:11 pm

[53] Uh, we do?

Based on what exactly?

Nova's pitched a grand total of 3 MLB innings.

He's pitching far better than McAllister in SWB this year and is only 1 year older.

And he has better stuff.

60 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:12 pm

Sweet swing, Brett!

61 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:14 pm

Gardner has been a bloody revelation. I thought he'd be useful, but I didn't expect him to be as awesome as he's been.

Big props to Cashmoney, not just for overseeing the drafting of the kid, but for trading Melky, not him, away.

62 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:14 pm

[61] He really has. He's been perfect.

63 Chyll Will   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:15 pm

[54] I'm thinking there's a problem with how the bullpen is being handled, but i can't put my finger on why. All I know is I'm scared for Hughes going to the pen.

64 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:16 pm

[59] Well, a full season of AAA. One year older is negligible, but McAllister has just got his AAA feet wet.

65 Shaun P.   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:16 pm

[62] It feels like nitpicking, but I do wonder if the Yanks would even be a win (or two) better if they were playing Gardner full time in CF and platooning Granderson in LF.

Not that Granderson has played CF poorly, but boy oh boy can he NOT hit lefties.

66 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:18 pm

Finally, somebody who can get Wilson Betamit out!

67 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:19 pm

[65] He really, really can't.

68 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm

Nice little catch, kid.

69 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm

Ichiro with his 32nd infield hit of the season to lead things off...what an amazing player.

my 2c: if you can get Haren without giving up Montero then you got to get him.

70 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:22 pm

Hm, so, will Chad G. be rewarded for this performance by being DFA'd to make room for Mitre?

71 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:27 pm

That wasn't a home run.

72 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:30 pm

Uh oh, insufficient Run Prevention by Beckett in his first inning back...

73 Chyll Will   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:47 pm

"Mov-ing side-walk I can't see under my feet..."

74 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:49 pm

Damn, nice hit!!

75 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:50 pm

Way to keep that weight back!

76 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:54 pm

Oh, hey, Weeping, I thought you might enjoy this. For the English, mainly, but the last song particularly.

77 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:55 pm

Ichiro is now two for two, both infield hits. That has to get into Beckett's head.

78 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:56 pm

1st ever texeira vs. teixeira matchup looming!

79 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:57 pm

just call him "Double Play Derek"

80 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:58 pm

don't make an out!

give a-rod another chance!!!

81 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:58 pm

[78] Kind of anti-climactic, huh?

82 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:58 pm

He did *not* "used to come up here to boos."

Yes, he was booed, but never routinely.

Give me a break, Kay.

83 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:59 pm


84 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:59 pm

good job Tex.


good job Teix

LET'S GO A-ROD !! !!!

85 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 10:59 pm

well, that's a drag...

86 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:00 pm

[82] No, he used to come up here to booze. Just a few drinks with friends.

87 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:01 pm

Albaladejo needs work?

88 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:06 pm

[87] I certainly want to see him get his chances. I'd like to see if the changes RAB were talking about are going to make a difference ...

89 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:07 pm


Good. Here's hoping Mitre can keep it going tomorrow.

90 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:08 pm

[86] i'll be drinkin' my blooze away in a matter of minutes!

[88] hey bud!

91 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:08 pm

Oh, and also, here's to a quick Swisher recovery.

92 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:08 pm

[90] What up, yo!

93 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:08 pm

5 guys w/ 2 hits tonight

nice win, peoples!

94 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:09 pm

[90] I just started mine! Gin and tonic, though. Muggy night here.

95 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

[91] yes. cheers to that!

RI - i am super stoopid about geography. how far is Maine from you? my folks are there for the week. i looked in my fancy atlas. seems to be a few hours up the coast...

96 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

Damn, Beltre double ties it up.
Adrian Beltre is making himself a big pile of money by his performance this season. No way he's on the Red Sox next year.

97 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

[94] hang on, gimme a sec. 'bout to crack the first sierra of the evening...

98 Mattpat11   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:11 pm

Two down, two to go

99 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:12 pm

[94] k, i'm all set.



100 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:12 pm

[95] Oh, well, I could drive to Portland in about 3 hours. If your folks are in York, or Kennebunk, or one of those southern Maine beaches, that's how far it is. But as it happens, I'm going to Maine next week, down to Acadia, which is more like six hours. Good place to be when the rest of the East gets all sticky and hot.

Show/Hide Comments 101-167
101 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:12 pm

[98] actually, i haven't downed my 1st yet. but, once i do, there's somewhere between 5 & 7 to go...! ; )

102 monkeypants   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:13 pm

Dinner engagement tonight; missed the game and game thread; looks like the Yankees had an easy time of it.

103 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:15 pm

[100] acha. what's the famous beach there - bar harbor? something like that... anyway, they're staying across the water from there. some remote cabin. opposite of touristy... can't remember the city in maine where my brother used to go on biz trips.

the asshole piano player i used to play with (for 7 loooong years), is from rhode island. unfortunately, i ran into him the other day. fortunately, he was moving to miami that day...

104 Mattpat11   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:16 pm

Remember when we thought Beckett's injury in New York was a pretend injury?

105 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:17 pm

fuck. i just got an email at an online account i have. dude's last name is "Dong".

i'm not kidding.

106 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:18 pm

[104] shit sox tied it up at 1. i hope fuckett loses big.

wagner blew the save in the 9th for the bravos. he's been excellent though this year. i wish he, chipper and bobby cox would all NOT retire...

107 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:20 pm

[106] I'm still kinda mad at him for caving last year and gifting the Sox 2 draft picks ...

108 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:20 pm

[103] No kidding. That's very near where I will be.
Bar Harbor is a town, not a beach. The beaches around Acadia are not very impressive -- very rocky. So they will be on an island off the coast of Bar Harbor -- maybe Bar Island? I'm going to be on Little Cranberry, which is off the coast of Northeast Harbor, also in Acadia. It's idyllic. And the National Park is very well run and maintained.

City in Maine: Bangor, Augusta, Portland. I don't think there are any others that anyone would call a "city"!

109 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:24 pm

[107] ah, i can totally understand that!

[108] huh. bar island sounds very very familiar. acadia might, too. my mom was talking to me about it last weekend when she was here visiting me. i only talked to her briefly before to make sure they got there alright. i'm sure i'll talk to her tomorrow - i'll try to find out exactly where they are. i think they're there til next thursday, or so. then, they go visit my brother and his kids...

110 RIYank   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:32 pm

[109] Acadia is the name of the National Park. It's located almost entirely on Mount Desert Island, which is barely an island (attached to the mainland at Trenton by causeway). A little bit of the park is out on the smaller islands, including the Cranberries but I think maybe also Bar Island (after which Bar Harbor is named).
Bar Harbor Brewery is my favorite. The Cadillac Mountain Stout is amazing (significantly better than Guiness). If they are in Bar Harbor (and like beer), they absolutely must go. Free tastings!

Buenas noches.

111 thelarmis   ~  Jul 23, 2010 11:37 pm

[110] ooh, yes, they are *definitely* going to the national park! my pop really wants to go. but i don't think they're staying near it. if bar harbor/island is not very near acadia, that's around where they are.

i'll tell my mom about the brewery. she'll love that!


112 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:06 am

Don Wakamatsu and Chone Figgins got into a scrapple in the dugout between innings..M's imploding this season, poor Ichiro deserves better. I thought their GM was a "genius" in the offseason?

113 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:14 am

poor Ichiro deserves better

Cosmic justice for having your first name on the back of your uni and making a stink about a positions change. That's the way i figure it.

114 Diane Firstman   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:17 am

Hi gang ... I was at tonight's monsoon/game. I have NO idea how they resumed play after the delay, there were swimming pools in the outfield.

Interestingly, the huge videoboard seems to have suffered some damage from the rain ... it looks like there are "scratches"/pixels broken in the lower right hand corner.

OK .... now I'm going to shower .... yuk!

115 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:18 am

[113] "Suzuki" is like "Smith" over here, much cooler to have "Ichiro"!

Watching the M's try and get base hits is painful..three straight weak ground outs..

116 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:20 am

115) of course it's cooler...that was my point. Cosmic. Justice.

117 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:21 am

114) a billion dollars just doesn't buy what it used to.

118 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:30 am

[116] You're being a grump :) if you're going to have names on the uniforms then it should be Brazilian style nicknames. "Ichiro", "Junior", "Mo", "A-Rod"..these would be very cool!

Bard in for the M's..should be over now.

119 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:36 am

118) yeah, like "He Hate Me" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Smart. ).

I'm totally down with that.

120 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:42 am

[119] From afar I find it difficult to believe the XFL actually existed..and was on tv for awhile..

Personally, I think the reaction of Murry Chass-like old guards would make it worth seeing such nicknames in baseball! And imagine Dusty Baker or Lou Piniella coaching "He Hate Me"...baseball needs some spicing up..

You ever get into any CFL action? Are the rules really tha much different to NFL?

121 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:47 am

I don't get into the CFL that much, but I will watch west coast games because they start late (here in the east), so when i am desperate for TV I'll watch a game.

The rules are different, not ghely, but different enough to change the aesthetic of the game. Twelve players (instead of eleven), wider and longer field, three downs instead of four, a few other more technical differences = more passing, lots of run and shoot. Field position is more important. In the old days, the CFL was higher scoring, but defenses have caught up, and with only three downs you have fewer sustained drives and lots of punting.

Oh yes, and the rouge ( or single point). If you don't know what it is, I'll let you look it up.

122 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:50 am

More seriously though, I do think that Ichiro gets somewhat of a free pass, relative to some other players. He does seem to be a bit of a prima donna, selfish player (not necessarily in reality, but his actions, if by another player, would be viewed as selfish).

I still rally do not understand why the man does not play CF, with his speed, arm, and defensive reputation. Anyway...

123 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:56 am

[121] Only three downs and more passing + run&shoot..that sounds exciting. Reason I can't dig NFL anymore is the shocking disparity between complex, "genius" designed offenses that seem to result in a lot of 2-yard draws..that + so many breaks, I can't see why it's so popular..

[122] Well, you may have a point there. It's well known Ichiro cares about his stats. But as we both know, stat-hounds in baseball are not like their equivalents in basketball. Ichiro is only helping his team by trying to get 200+ hits. Also, Gutierrez is the best defensive CF in the game now so..but personality counts too regarding the free pass from the press. Hence the all out attacks on Bonds & Clemens (legendary a-holes) and the kids glove treatment of Andy P, for example...

124 moismycopilot   ~  Jul 24, 2010 12:57 am

[114] I was there too, and we waited out the rain in our seats in the upper deck. My back still got soaked though. The old Stadium was definitely more watertight.

I'm happy Jorge had a milestone night, but I admit that I was hoping to see Alex hit 600. Ah well, back to the Stadium tomorrow--and this time we're bringing ponchos!

125 Diane Firstman   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:01 am


I was in the upper deck too, sec. 420a ....

126 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:01 am

123) you would think that lots of passing would be exciting, and indeed in the glory days of the 70s and 80s, the CFL was known as a wide open, high flying league, But these days, dorm the few games that i watch, three downs means very little commitment to running and very few sustained drives. On other words, lots of pun ring. Now, if you think punting is exciting, then it's the league for you.

127 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:06 am

126) ...lots of punting...

128 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:12 am

[127] That's ok, I can dig a "pun ring"..though perhaps Diane with her word-skills would be a more suitable participant..

I'm trying to get my head around xFIP now..some of these new stats are a bit..well, I'm no longer in the cave but am still struggling to keep up with the developments..

129 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:30 am

[125] oh, that's right - you were in todd drew's seats! right? what an honor! how is marsha doing???

130 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:30 am

xFIP is not hard in essence: bAsically it is measure of a pitcher's expected ERA (sort of) based on things like how many walks, steak outs and HRs he gives up. In effect, it measures how lucky or unlucky a pitcher has been relative to ERA.

That said, I just don't have the know how to dig into the actual formula, or to identify when this or that pitcher's xFIP is exaggeratedly good or bad, etc. I don't know how the formula is generated, etc.

So, I tend to take it on face value as an attempt to quantify 'luck', but I don't lean heavily on the stat.

131 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:31 am

[127] pun ring, is MUCH more exciting than punting! ; )

132 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:32 am

[130] steak outs! monkeypants, you RULE!!! : )

133 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:34 am

On the xFIP drone, sort of, it looks like the recent rumors have the Yankees talking with the D'backs about Haren, with Joba as possibly a centerpiece of a trade.

I'd be all for this. It's not that I am down on joba. Rather, I think that the Yankees have fucked his development and he is now doomed to the bullpen with them. And if his future is as a sixty inning per year guy, and since bullpen arms tend to be fungible, then I would prefer that he could be flipped for a starter.

We'll see how things develop in the next few days.

Oh yeah, I did predict before the all star break that the Yankees would trade joba.

134 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:36 am

132) I'm just so glad I can bring joy to so many people.

135 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:38 am

[130] Isn't BABIP a stat that reflects the luck factor? I wonder how xFIP changes from season to season..this topic needs more study (by me!)

136 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:39 am

[133] Agreed. Time to end the Joba era in NY.
[134] It's your iPad, ha increased your comedic output exponentially.

137 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:51 am

[134] well, i was laughing so hard, i had to work diligently not to spit beer all over my new laptop. that resulted in hiccups. so, for a few minutes, there was no joy in mudville. suds are flowing freely once again!

[133] i think a lot of people predicted the joba trade. hell, even my mom did!

138 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:51 am

135) from http://saberlibrary.com/pitching/xfip/

Expanding on FIP, xFIP realizes that some pitchers may be incredibly (un)lucky on their Home Run per Fly ball (HR/FB) rates in a given year, while starting pitchers should expect that rate to be around 10.6%.  Theoretically, this should be a better predictor of a pitcher’s future ERA.  xFIP is calculated exactly the same as FIP, with the exception of the Home Run component, which makes the formula look like this:

xFIP = ((13*(.106*# of fly balls))+(3*BB+HBP-IBB)-(2*K))/IP+constant

This newly introduced term helps normalize some of the variation that is inherent in FIP due to the aforementioned luck factor on fly balls leaving the park.

Whatever that means. But it does look like the formula assumes a constant normal HR/flyballl rate, presumably based on historical evidence. It also looks a bit more complex than just looking at BABIP. I'm still not sure that I get it.

139 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:55 am

More seriously though, I do think that Ichiro gets somewhat of a free pass, relative to some other players.

That's because those other players never described playing in Kansas City in August as "hotter than two rats fucking in a sock" ...

140 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:56 am

137) there is a fine line between comedy and tragedy, laughter and tears. I expect my audience to walk that line.

141 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 1:59 am

[137] thelarmis, had a huge session last night with some work people..no more suds talk now, the head is heavy.. :)

[138] That formula is making my North Korean Political Philosophy textbook from grad school look clear by comparison...but seriously, what is lucky or unlucky about HR/FB rates? Besides the park dimensions, which I thought adjustments were made for?

142 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:00 am

I’d be all for this. It’s not that I am down on joba. Rather, I think that the Yankees have fucked his development and he is now doomed to the bullpen with them.

I'd reckon it's somewhere between the Yankees fucked his developments and Joba has a "$1000 arm and a ¢10 head" ...

143 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:02 am

[142] Well, maybe after Arlington that should read "$499 arm and a 10¢ head" ...

144 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:10 am

[142] sooo cool you can make the "cents" sign! alas, my laptop is limited...

145 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:10 am

141) I guess it all depends on how much one believes that pitcher can or cannot control what happens when the batter hits the pitch, i.e. not balls/walk or strikes/strike out. It looks like historically around ten percent of flyballs are HRs, if I understand the formula correctly. So, if a pitcher is giving up an unusually high number of HRs, is this bad luck (fly balls pulled to the short part of the park, park dimensions' etc.) or just bad pitching?

I have to admit, that i don't fully understand the formula. So I sort of accept on faith that xFIP is a reasonable quantitative measure of how a pitcher's peripherals match up with his ERA.

But always keep in mind, as we learned last year with Mitre, some pitchers are just really, really, really unlucky.

And of course, you jut can't predict baseball.

146 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:12 am

[143] i'll never forget watching that injury. i was on stage. my parents were down visiting and the girl i was seeing at the time was sitting with them right in front of the stage. i was playing and the game was on tv. once joba went down, i starting shaking my head and mouthing shit like: "no. no. no no no no NO!. there goes our season. no playoffs for us. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck." don't worry, i didn't miss a beat! : )

147 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:13 am

[145] anyone whose name anagrams to "orgies timer" is *not* unlucky!

148 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:13 am

[145] But surely a pitcher can control where he delivers the pitch..for example, on the outside corner to a righty slugger, less likely to give up a Fenway cheapie homer...?

I don't know, it's too hot this afternoon to ponder further, time for more Paco!


149 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:16 am

148) you got me how much a pitcher can control. The statheqds tend to assume that balls in play...not walks, homers or strike outs...are more or less out of the control of the pitcher. This merely pushes that thinking to include home runs as to some degree a ball in play.

I really don't know how much, over the long haul, a pitcher can control what happens when a batter hits a fly ball.

150 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:20 am

[149] Thinking back to our friend CMW, as soon as he could not get proper sink on his pitches, he got lit up..endless parade of long flys and homers..I don't see where there is any "luck" there at all, just faulty pitching..


Some of you may recognize this one from the "Live in San Francisco: Paco de Lucia, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin" album. Guitar heaven!

151 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:26 am

150) of course, CMW was always an outlier, right? He pitched to a lot of contact with relatively low K rates. The stat guys always warned that his success would be difficult to sustain.

152 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:33 am

[151] He had 4 excellent seasons before getting injured though..isn't that enough of a sample size to not be an "outlier"? And had he not gotten injured..I mean, he wasn't flukey Carlos Silva first-half out there...

153 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:36 am

For example, this article from 2007, http://www.observer.com/2007/chien-ming-wang-occasional-ace

A few money quotes:

...hitters put so many balls into play against Wang that results depend, to an unusual extent, on luck...

Those who believe Wang is destined for greatness point to his ability to “throw ground balls” as the secret to his longevity. The problem with throwing ground balls, however, is that there is a nasty tendency for many of them to go between fielders and into the outfield...

Even Chien-Ming Wang is dependent on the strikeout for success. And this is not surprising—no pitcher has managed any sustained level of success with a strikeout rate as low as Wang’s career mark of 3.74 per nine innings.

Take a look at the stats—no matter how soft the tosses are, no matter how dastardly the slider—no pitcher has managed a sustained career of excellence striking out fewer than four and a half per nine innings...

But at age 27, it is as likely as not that his strikeout bump this season is statistical fluctuation, still leaving him at the mercy of opponents’ batting average on balls in play (BABIP). For pitchers with even better strikeout rates than Wang’s, this can be the true killer, and is dependent a bit upon team defense (far from a Yankee strength) and largely on luck.

154 monkeypants   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:38 am

152) no, the fact that he had several successful season IS the reason that he was an outlier. Wang's extended success defied historical precedents. Normally pitchers who do not strike out lots of guys do not have his level of pre-injury success. That makes him an outlier.

155 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jul 24, 2010 2:47 am

[154] Ok, that makes sense. The K-rate aspect I can understand..but I'm still not sure on the whole luck thing..ah well, ya just can't... :)

156 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:28 am

[142] sooo cool you can make the “cents” sign! alas, my laptop is limited…

Behold, I shall not give you a fish, I shall teach you to fish!!!

Hold down the ALT key ... and then type 0162 on your number pad (make sure Num Lock is lit).

Good eatin'!

157 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:30 am

[156] you must have some kind of james bond computer, or sumink! i gotta whole lotta nuthin' with the alt key. now, carol alt... ; )

158 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:34 am

[157] Don't make me Porzikova you!!!

159 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:35 am

[157] Hold *down* the alt ... then hit 0162 and release ... you should see ¢!

160 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:42 am

[158] ooh, is that a bond reference? i've actually never seen a bond flick before...

[158] i'm guessing you need a pc for that, or something...

time to kill the sixer...!

161 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:44 am

Oh, you have a Mac?

162 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:45 am

On Mac it should be Option+4, try that.

163 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:46 am

[161] oh, maybe mac is what i meant! i know *zero* about computers! i have a little dell laptop. windows 7. it's new, this year. it's a "studio" model. matches my "studio tan"!

164 thelarmis   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:47 am

[161] hilarious - i have NO idea what a "pc" or "mac" means. caveman drummer.

boom-bap, boom-boom-bap!!!

165 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:53 am

[164] Hahahahahaha!



166 OldYanksFan   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:54 am

The New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks were "never close" to a deal for Dan Haren on Friday, despite widespread reports that the Yankees had separated themselves from the other bidders for Haren, a source familiar with the discussions told ESPN.com.

The two teams did swap names Friday, the source said. But the Yankees rejected a Diamondbacks proposal that would have sent Joba Chamberlain, highly regarded pitching prospect Ivan Nova and two other prospects to Arizona for Haren.

The Yankees, instead, have proposed an entirely prospect-based deal, which Arizona rejected. Diamondbacks president Derrick Hall told reporters in Phoenix that other teams had made offers of "at least equal value" to what the Yankees proposed.

167 cult of basebaal   ~  Jul 24, 2010 3:57 am

[166] I suppose it all depends on what your definition of "two other prospects" is ...

feed Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share via email
"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver