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The Old Man (is Down the Road)

Tim Marchman on the aging Derek Jeter.

Tags:  Derek Jeter  tim marchman

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1 Jonathan   ~  Aug 25, 2010 10:55 am

Derek Jeter is still producing at a decent clip. Also, he is still clutch. Beside's outside of baseball terms, Derek Jeter is only 36.

2 Diane Firstman   ~  Aug 25, 2010 11:04 am



3 The Hawk   ~  Aug 25, 2010 11:19 am

Kind of zoned that article out when I saw defensive metrics rear its ugly head.

Also, curious decision to show the other shortstops after-36 stats without comparison to pre-36 seasons. I mean, for all we know looking at that chart, Ozzie Smith may have been better after 36.

Defensively, there's no doubt Jeter's gonna slow down more and more but my impression is this topic of where they'll play him is a road pretty well-trod already.

Offensively, Jeter is having a bad year, for him, but since he had an excellent year in 2009, I'll wait till next year to see if he's really fallen off the way it seems. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

4 nettles   ~  Aug 25, 2010 11:55 am

Sorry #1, no such thing as "clutch."

5 RIYank   ~  Aug 25, 2010 11:58 am

I don't think the Red Sox and Mariners will play two games today. They may not play any. It will rain all day -- it might let up enough in the evening to get a game in.
Both teams have an off day scheduled tomorrow, but I just heard that the Mariners don't want to play tomorrow. No idea why.

6 Raf   ~  Aug 25, 2010 12:16 pm

[5] Tomorrow is a travel day for the M's, they return to Seattle.

7 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 25, 2010 12:26 pm

6th on the HITS list is Carl Yaz, with 3419 Hits
9th on the HITS list is P. Molitor, with 3319 Hits.
11th on the HITS list is W Mays, with 3283 Hits.

With 2 excellent years, Jetes could be in 11 th place.
With 3 more years, 9th seems assured, with a reasonable shot at 6th. After 6th, that next 3 places take an additional 100 hits each. My guess is how long Jetes wants to play (assuming it's not at a high level) may be based on what milestones he's looking at. Modest though he is, I'm guessing Top 10 on the Hits list is in his sights.

Now we all thought Jeter was in decline in '08, and he fooled us. And many players could still play, and especially hit, in their late 30's and early 40's. So ya never know. However, while you can have a defensive slug at 1B or OF, you just can't carry it at SS... not when the guy is already, and perennially between below average and very poor with the glove.

My guess is Jeter could get $10m-$15m as a FA, depending on how much someone is willing to pay for the name.

Me... 2/$30m seems both fair and generous.

I have no doubt the Yankees can financially afford whatever. But people don't seem to take into account (what I believe) is Cashman's desire to be more financially competative with the rest of baseball. The Yankees are worth a zillion$. and could probably have a $250m payroll without batting an eye.

From Cot's: "A group led by George Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for $8.7M in 1973. Forbes magazine valued the club at $1.6 billion in April 2010."

(and I'm assuming that does not include YES)

But I don't think they WANT to, and I don't think they will.

Because of the economy, the 2nd tier of players is realative cheap. Premiere players might still command in the $16m-$20m neighborhood, but you can still get very good players for under $10m. $8m buys a JD, $6m a Matsui or Vlad.

While most other teams are cutting payroll, I can't see the Yankees inflating theirs.

To keep our core together, next year ARod (-1), Cano (+1), Teix (+2.5), Nick (+2.25) and Grandy (+2.75), we are +$7.5m for 2011. Yeah, Jetes, Andy and Mo come off the books, but replacing Mo and Andy will probably cost similar dollars. So if Jeter gets (21 - 7.5) $13.5, we stay pat (not including raises for the young'uns)

The only real relief we get for '12 is Posada's $13m, which hopefully we solve inhouse (Jesus and Romine).

If you believe that $220m and $230m and $240m are in our very near future, Jeter's salary (and ARod's if he is declining, and AJ's if he continues to be a #4) are not an issue.

But if you want to assume we stay where we are or even cut a bit, it will be a challenge for Cashman (and even William) to continue to keep us the best team in baseball.

I do have faith in Cashman and I'm not on the ledge... I just think he/we have to be smart about who we get/how much we pay for the next few years.

8 Raf   ~  Aug 25, 2010 1:07 pm

[7] I don't think the Yankees will ever be "more financially competative with the rest of baseball." Retaining players cost money. Teams will always have salaries to dump. There will always be free agents to spend money on. Teams don't have the playoff runs the Yankees have without spending money.

9 monkeypants   ~  Aug 25, 2010 1:30 pm

Once again, much hand-wringing without anyone (except [1], minus the "clutch") considering the following:

MLB SS 2010: .266/.323/.374/.697/91 OPS+
Jeter 2010: .276/.338/.390/.728/100 OPS+

Despite having his worst season, the man is still an above average offensive player for his position. In fact, his bad year sort of blows away the pathetic AL average (of which his own performance inflates): .263/.317/.365/.681/85 OPS+. His bat still more than compensates for his glove.

Is this the beginning of the end? Quite possibly. IS he playing hurt this year, as was widely speculated concerning 2007? Could be, especially given recent comments. When he has two years like this in a row, then we can talk decline. And even then, he'll still be above average.

[7] Yeah, second tier players can be had for relatively cheap. Who are the second tier SS hitting the FA market in the next few seasons?

10 OldYanksFan   ~  Aug 25, 2010 1:47 pm

[9] I don't think anyone wants to replace Ole Derek. I think we know he is still an above avg. offensive SS. The only issues are: 1) How much, and 2) How long.

One has to consider tying up a roster spot with a longish contract... regardless of price. Certainly if he wanted to pump up his stats and was willing to play cheap and work out at 2B/3B, we could give him year 3 and maybe year 4 as a UINF.

The real question is how many more years you want him as a starting SS? As I've said, I'm willing to go 2. I just can't see him in the field every day at 39.

I remember seeing an old Willie Mays literally tripping over himself and looking foolish many times. Not seeing Jeter at all is better then seeing a (greatly) diminished Jeter. Remember GOB?

I don't understand why you or anyone wants to overpay him and overextend his contract. Does he need the money? Is he the first great player to get old? I just hope he has the good sense to bow out gracefully.

I'm not saying he's done. We won't know that until after next year. I just want Cashman to put the team first in ANY moves he makes.

So MP... are you willing to hurt the team for Jeter's sake?

11 monkeypants   ~  Aug 25, 2010 2:09 pm

[10] I don’t understand why you or anyone wants to overpay him and overextend his contract.

It's not my decision to make, so what I want is not particularly relevant.

As for not wanting see a diminished Jeter---speak for yourself. I have no problem watching a diminishes star, so long as he is employed in accordance to his abilities. I would have little problem signing Jeter to a four year deal that sees his playing time gradually reduced as his abilities diminish. Maybe by the end he only plays 40 games against LHP. So what? If he is effective enough, great. I'd rather see that than 40 games of Peña or Nuñez or Cairo or the like.

It's the Yankees job to determine how much money that is worth.

You mention Mays embarrassing himself. Yet he still put up a strong seasons until age 41. It was only his last season, at age 42, when he was really ineffective. Yet you would have refused to "overextend" Mays at age 38 for fear of having to watch him get older.

12 The Hawk   ~  Aug 25, 2010 2:22 pm

[9] When he has two years like this in a row, then we can talk decline.

I said pretty much the same thing. No hand-wringing here, sir.

13 The Hawk   ~  Aug 25, 2010 2:25 pm

Lest we forget, Jeter is likely more valuable to the Yanks that what he brings to the field. Fans really want him on the team, in general.

14 monkeypants   ~  Aug 25, 2010 2:46 pm

[12] No offense intended; I apologize!

; )

15 joejoejoe   ~  Aug 26, 2010 12:19 am

I have no problem with the Yankees paying Jeter whatever money (4 years/80M) but that contract should come with the stipulation that he comes to spring training 2011 with a 1st base mitt, an OF glove and the understanding that doing what it takes for the team to win means playing anywhere and everywhere.

Market rates for Jeter's offensive performance say 4yrs/80M is ridiculously high but avoiding an ugly twilight to #2's career is worth a lot more to the Yankee brand.

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