I may loathe ARod, but I understand why he has to go through with this type of suit. And honestly, I don't think it's that outrageous because it sure seems like a witch-hunt against him. I think MLB clearly overshot their load here, especially Selig. If ARod can prove Selig was complicit and knew about PED use in the 90s, then how can Selig be entrusted with cleaning up the game and be trusted to dole out punishment?
But I am not a lawyer, I can't wait to hear someone that understands this sort of stuff opine.
I love that scene. Pacino chewing up the scenery as usual. Whenever I hear somone has jury duty or is going to court, I always shout, "I am out of order? You are out of order, this whole damn court is out of order." Then I throw in, "You can't handle the truth" - Another cheeseball court scene.
ARod is being made an example of, but he is also guilty most likely. It is also ironic that ARod is upset that MLB bought the evidence and that is what he is being accused of as well.
Alex is a sad figure. He wants to play so much that he is willing to spend millions to get on the field again. Unfortunately, he is only a two tool player now. He can hit for occasional power and throw. But he can't run, hit for average or get on the field. Anyone who thinks that he can sustain good play for more than a short time has never been forty.
[5] Agreed. Selfishly, as a Yankee fan, I want him suspended for the rest of his contract. But I don't think as a Yankee fan most of the time. Like Greg G said [3], he's definitely guilty, and I doubt even his most ardent supporters think he's been swallowing ginkgo biloba herbal meds, but it's hard for me not to see the obvious - ARod is being made an example of and there is no precedence for the type of suspension he received. Even if every piece of the evidence is absolutely true.
5] I don't doubt that Alex wants to play and it is well known that he thinks about his image and the way he is perceived more than most. (Joe Torre detailed quite well in his book).
A lot of this is about the money. Alex is due a lot of money.
It is sad as it is sad that Bonds another guy who would likely be a hall of famer without steroid use is a sad figure. It is greed though. They would most likely have been great just with their natural talent and physical ability, but thought it wasn't enough, and wanted an edge to be the best ever.
[1][6] I wish everyone was a even-headed about this you, as Dimelo.
Speaking as a lawyer, this is your typical complaint for a situation like this. In a high profile matter, the more inflammatory language, the better, because it gets you more attention and sticks in people's minds. And it has the benefit of being mostly (if not entirely) true. I've been saying for weeks that A-Rod's suspension was all about the HR record and totally unsupportable; that if Bud had given him 65 games like Braun, there would have been little to no basis for an appeal.
In some ways, if MLB doesn't like this lawsuit, it has only itself to blame.
Ha, I hope Alex drags MLB through the mud, forcing them to agree to a huge settlement with him. I expect that he will be suing the Yankees next. Selig, MLB, and the Yankees let Alex get away with his cheating, lying, and bullying for years. Now is biting them in the ass. Karma really is a bitch.
man, did Pacino knock that scene out of the park. Hambone for sure, but fuggin' great.
I got nothing on the ARod situation. Don't feel like thinking about it, let alone talking about it yet. Double decker shit sandwich is what it is, and I've got no appetite for it.
Again, speaking just as a lawyer, I am also quite amused by this part of MLB's official statement on the lawsuit:
"This lawsuit is a clear violation of the confidentiality provisions of our drug program, and it is nothing more than a desperate attempt to circumvent the Collective Bargaining Agreement."
And of course MLB itself has NEVER leaked ANYTHING related to the drug program and has NEVER done ANYTHING to try to circumvent the CBA. /sarcasm
If only Marvin Miller were alive to see that press release come out of MLB - I would pay a lot of money to hear his comments on it.
11. Shaun I am not a lawyer but I see Alex hoping the lawsuit buys him time and he can play while it's pending. Of course, he really can't play very well anymore.
You're reverence for Marvin Miller is misplaced in my opinion. Neither management nor his association gave a damn about the fans.
12] The lawsuit will have no bearing on if he can play or not. The issue is now before the abritator on if ARod will serve all, some or none of the suspension.
The lawsuit would likely take years if it goes to court, and could also be settled or dropped prior to trial.
I hope Alex wins big, and Selig comes out looking like the petty used car salesman he is. The guy is likely to retire without ever having had to answer any serious questions about his oversight of the steroid era (not to mention the sleazy musical franchise games he played with his buddies), so this is as good as we'll probably ever get.
Then, I hope A-Rod site out his 50-65 games next year, plays well in the 2nd half and in 2015, then retires graciously with 699 homers and 2 years left on that contract.
[12] I don't expect the players or the teams, in the aggregate, to truly care about the fans' interests, except when they intersect with their own interests. I think this is true for pretty much every sport.
Marvin Miller did more to improve the lives and careers of the players than any other person in history outside of Alexander Cartwright (presuming we give him credit for "inventing" the game). Better players = better baseball = big win for us fans, in my book. Hence, my admiration for him.
[13] Unless the appeal before the arbiter is somehow upended by the lawsuit, which further delays the appeal.
[14] I think discovery would be juicy here, but I don't think it would extend to cover that kind of information (if it even exists). I also suspect that the lawsuit will settle or go away before it gets to discovery - both sides, especially MLB, have a great interest in making sure it never gets to discovery.
Shaun, I have no doubt that players and management care little about the fans. However, I quite enjoyed baseball when the "players were in bondage." That's what made me the fan I am today.
Miller had a point to make and he did it. No problem there. But forgive me if I don't consider him a great labor leader.
Marvin Miller is one greatest labor leaders EVAH. He is the only reason that hte players not only make a lot of guaranteed money and have free agency, but that the game has so many safey measures in place. The players should forever be ashamed that they did put him in the hall before died.
[17] Actually, I think MLB has boxed themselves in here, if they can't get the suit dropped or forced into arbitration, if they pay Alex off to settle the suit, it's certainly going to look like they're admitting the charge in the court of public opinion.
Now you can argue that a calm, rational approach would counter that by weighing that potential damage against the potential damage that would come from full disclosure and you'd be right.
But I think it's pretty clear that MLB's mindset and approach to dealing with this issue hasn't come close to resembling calm and rational. Alex has clearly been Bud's "White Whale" and I can't see him willing to back down and more or less admit he's been Ahab all along, not when this whole affair is likely to be critical in retrospective appraisals of his tenure and legacy.
Frankly, I'm going to be praying to the Old Gods and the New for full, messy disclosure proceedings, MLB's behavior thoughout this whole affair has been despicable and thoroughly deserves complete exposure and public censure.
[6] Selfishly, as a Yankee fan, I'd like to see him get 50 games in arbitration, serve his time, come back to the Yankees mid-season to play 3rd base and then go on to earn every last cent he's owed in his contract, including incentives.
Sorry but he can't play anymore. The first time he tries to beat out a hit he will pull a hamstring. If he can't play third he has no real value. I admire his desire to play but the calendar waits for no man.
LOL! I just read in the Times how Alex even turned on MLBPA. Ah, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive. Yes Alex, it is a lonely business being a cheat, liar, and bully.
Haven't read the piece, but frankly, the MLBPA hasn't covered itself in glory in this whole debacle, either. I mean, even the cowering worms in the NFLPA have enough stick to take the NFL to task for their egregious leaks in the "Freeman Affair".
Meanwhile, there's been not a single fucking peep out of the MLBPA while MLB routinely and blatently violates the terms of the CBA by leaking story after story about the Biogensis affair.
Marvin Miller *would* be rolling over in his grave over this ...
I may loathe ARod, but I understand why he has to go through with this type of suit. And honestly, I don't think it's that outrageous because it sure seems like a witch-hunt against him. I think MLB clearly overshot their load here, especially Selig. If ARod can prove Selig was complicit and knew about PED use in the 90s, then how can Selig be entrusted with cleaning up the game and be trusted to dole out punishment?
But I am not a lawyer, I can't wait to hear someone that understands this sort of stuff opine.
I think of A-Rod more like Paul Newman in the first half of The Verdict
I love that scene. Pacino chewing up the scenery as usual. Whenever I hear somone has jury duty or is going to court, I always shout, "I am out of order? You are out of order, this whole damn court is out of order." Then I throw in, "You can't handle the truth" - Another cheeseball court scene.
ARod is being made an example of, but he is also guilty most likely. It is also ironic that ARod is upset that MLB bought the evidence and that is what he is being accused of as well.
2) NICE.
Alex is a sad figure. He wants to play so much that he is willing to spend millions to get on the field again. Unfortunately, he is only a two tool player now. He can hit for occasional power and throw. But he can't run, hit for average or get on the field. Anyone who thinks that he can sustain good play for more than a short time has never been forty.
[5] Agreed. Selfishly, as a Yankee fan, I want him suspended for the rest of his contract. But I don't think as a Yankee fan most of the time. Like Greg G said [3], he's definitely guilty, and I doubt even his most ardent supporters think he's been swallowing ginkgo biloba herbal meds, but it's hard for me not to see the obvious - ARod is being made an example of and there is no precedence for the type of suspension he received. Even if every piece of the evidence is absolutely true.
5] I don't doubt that Alex wants to play and it is well known that he thinks about his image and the way he is perceived more than most. (Joe Torre detailed quite well in his book).
A lot of this is about the money. Alex is due a lot of money.
It is sad as it is sad that Bonds another guy who would likely be a hall of famer without steroid use is a sad figure. It is greed though. They would most likely have been great just with their natural talent and physical ability, but thought it wasn't enough, and wanted an edge to be the best ever.
[1] [6] I wish everyone was a even-headed about this you, as Dimelo.
Speaking as a lawyer, this is your typical complaint for a situation like this. In a high profile matter, the more inflammatory language, the better, because it gets you more attention and sticks in people's minds. And it has the benefit of being mostly (if not entirely) true. I've been saying for weeks that A-Rod's suspension was all about the HR record and totally unsupportable; that if Bud had given him 65 games like Braun, there would have been little to no basis for an appeal.
In some ways, if MLB doesn't like this lawsuit, it has only itself to blame.
Ha, I hope Alex drags MLB through the mud, forcing them to agree to a huge settlement with him. I expect that he will be suing the Yankees next. Selig, MLB, and the Yankees let Alex get away with his cheating, lying, and bullying for years. Now is biting them in the ass. Karma really is a bitch.
man, did Pacino knock that scene out of the park. Hambone for sure, but fuggin' great.
I got nothing on the ARod situation. Don't feel like thinking about it, let alone talking about it yet. Double decker shit sandwich is what it is, and I've got no appetite for it.
Again, speaking just as a lawyer, I am also quite amused by this part of MLB's official statement on the lawsuit:
"This lawsuit is a clear violation of the confidentiality provisions of our drug program, and it is nothing more than a desperate attempt to circumvent the Collective Bargaining Agreement."
And of course MLB itself has NEVER leaked ANYTHING related to the drug program and has NEVER done ANYTHING to try to circumvent the CBA. /sarcasm
If only Marvin Miller were alive to see that press release come out of MLB - I would pay a lot of money to hear his comments on it.
11. Shaun I am not a lawyer but I see Alex hoping the lawsuit buys him time and he can play while it's pending. Of course, he really can't play very well anymore.
You're reverence for Marvin Miller is misplaced in my opinion. Neither management nor his association gave a damn about the fans.
12] The lawsuit will have no bearing on if he can play or not. The issue is now before the abritator on if ARod will serve all, some or none of the suspension.
The lawsuit would likely take years if it goes to court, and could also be settled or dropped prior to trial.
I want discover. Get all of baseball's skeletons out of the closet about who knew what and when regarding PEDs.
I hope Alex wins big, and Selig comes out looking like the petty used car salesman he is. The guy is likely to retire without ever having had to answer any serious questions about his oversight of the steroid era (not to mention the sleazy musical franchise games he played with his buddies), so this is as good as we'll probably ever get.
Then, I hope A-Rod site out his 50-65 games next year, plays well in the 2nd half and in 2015, then retires graciously with 699 homers and 2 years left on that contract.
10) Pacino just cracks me the hell up in this scene.
[12] I don't expect the players or the teams, in the aggregate, to truly care about the fans' interests, except when they intersect with their own interests. I think this is true for pretty much every sport.
Marvin Miller did more to improve the lives and careers of the players than any other person in history outside of Alexander Cartwright (presuming we give him credit for "inventing" the game). Better players = better baseball = big win for us fans, in my book. Hence, my admiration for him.
[13] Unless the appeal before the arbiter is somehow upended by the lawsuit, which further delays the appeal.
[14] I think discovery would be juicy here, but I don't think it would extend to cover that kind of information (if it even exists). I also suspect that the lawsuit will settle or go away before it gets to discovery - both sides, especially MLB, have a great interest in making sure it never gets to discovery.
Shaun, I have no doubt that players and management care little about the fans. However, I quite enjoyed baseball when the "players were in bondage." That's what made me the fan I am today.
Miller had a point to make and he did it. No problem there. But forgive me if I don't consider him a great labor leader.
Marvin Miller is one greatest labor leaders EVAH. He is the only reason that hte players not only make a lot of guaranteed money and have free agency, but that the game has so many safey measures in place. The players should forever be ashamed that they did put him in the hall before died.
I omitted the "not" in my final sentence below.
Sorry Simone. Unions worked for a living wage and an occasional vacation. Samuel Gompers would not recognize Marvin Miller as a labor leader.
[17] Actually, I think MLB has boxed themselves in here, if they can't get the suit dropped or forced into arbitration, if they pay Alex off to settle the suit, it's certainly going to look like they're admitting the charge in the court of public opinion.
Now you can argue that a calm, rational approach would counter that by weighing that potential damage against the potential damage that would come from full disclosure and you'd be right.
But I think it's pretty clear that MLB's mindset and approach to dealing with this issue hasn't come close to resembling calm and rational. Alex has clearly been Bud's "White Whale" and I can't see him willing to back down and more or less admit he's been Ahab all along, not when this whole affair is likely to be critical in retrospective appraisals of his tenure and legacy.
Frankly, I'm going to be praying to the Old Gods and the New for full, messy disclosure proceedings, MLB's behavior thoughout this whole affair has been despicable and thoroughly deserves complete exposure and public censure.
[6] Selfishly, as a Yankee fan, I'd like to see him get 50 games in arbitration, serve his time, come back to the Yankees mid-season to play 3rd base and then go on to earn every last cent he's owed in his contract, including incentives.
Sorry but he can't play anymore. The first time he tries to beat out a hit he will pull a hamstring. If he can't play third he has no real value. I admire his desire to play but the calendar waits for no man.
[24] We're talking about Jeter here, right?
LOL! I just read in the Times how Alex even turned on MLBPA. Ah, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive. Yes Alex, it is a lonely business being a cheat, liar, and bully.
Haven't read the piece, but frankly, the MLBPA hasn't covered itself in glory in this whole debacle, either. I mean, even the cowering worms in the NFLPA have enough stick to take the NFL to task for their egregious leaks in the "Freeman Affair".
Meanwhile, there's been not a single fucking peep out of the MLBPA while MLB routinely and blatently violates the terms of the CBA by leaking story after story about the Biogensis affair.
Marvin Miller *would* be rolling over in his grave over this ...