"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

Boston Red Sox III: It’s On

The Yankees look to reboot their season series with the Red Sox with three games in Boston starting tonight. They’re 0-5 against the Bosox entering the series, but hold a one-game lead over Boston in the American League East and have played their best baseball in the month since the two team’s last met. Dig:

April 6 to May 7

Red Sox 18-11 (.621)
Yankees 13-15 (.464)

May 8 to June 8

Yankees 21-8 (.724)
Red Sox 15-13 (.536)

Take out their five head-to-head games, and the Yankees outplayed the Sox against neutral opponents during the season’s first month as well (13-10 to 13-11). Having taken series from all of the league’s other winning teams (the Rays, Jays, Rangers, Tigers, and Angels), all the Yankees have left to prove in the first half of this season is that they can beat the Red Sox head-to-head.

Not that it is likely to matter in the short run. As I wrote in my initial Red Sox preview in April, since the implementation of the unbalanced schedule in 2001, the season series between these two teams hasn’t put one team in the playoffs while keeping the other out, and all signs point to both making it to the postseason again this year. Still, bragging rights are fun, and despite the Yankees’ dominance of the league over the past month, the Red Sox still hold them.

The big news in Boston is that David Ortiz seems to have gone from hero to zero for realsies, forcing Terry Francona to drop him to sixth in the order. Ortiz actually enters this series on a six-game hitting streak and hit his second homer of the year on Saturday, but he’s still hitting just .197/.288/.308 on the season. I had figured Ortiz for a quick decline following his wrist injury last year, but I never thought he’d just vanish like this, which probably means he’ll pull out of it. Just look at Jason Varitek. The Red Sox’s catcher looked washed up last year when he hit .220/.313/.359 at age 36, but he has rebounded this year, hitting a solid .247/.337/.519 with ten homers.

Despite Ortiz’s vanishing act, what the Sox have done well this season is hit (fourth in the majors in runs scored per game) and pitch out of the bullpen (major league best 2.76 pen ERA). What they have not done well is field (second-worst defensive efficiency in the AL) and start games (fifth-worst starters ERA in baseball at 5.02).

Tonight’s starter, Josh Beckett, leads the Sox rotation with a 4.09 ERA and is the only Boston start to have an ERA below league average. Beckett had a terrible April, including allowing eight runs in five innings to the Yankees at Fenway on April 25, but he’s been awesome in May, going 4-0 with a 1.94 ERA in six starts and posting a 0.40 ERA across 22 2/3 innings over his last three starts.

A.J. Burnett, who helped turned that April Beckett blow-up into a Red Sox win by also allowing eight runs in five innings, again starts against his former Marlins rotationmate. In his six starts from that first match-up against Beckett through his return to Toronto on May 12, Burnett went 0-2 with a 6.34 ERA, but he rebounded nicely in his last two starts, both wins over Texas. In those two games, he posted a combined line of 13 IP, 11 H, 3 R, 1 HR, 5 BB, 15 K. Some more of that would help get the Yankees’ reboot off this series off on the right foot.

Boston Red Sox

2009 Record: 33-24 (.579)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 33-24 (.579)

Manager: Terry Francona
General Manager: Theo Epstein

Home Ballpark (multi-year Park Factors): Fenway Park (108/106)

Who’s Replaced Whom:

  • Mark Kotsay (DL) replaces Jeff Bailey (minors)
  • Rocco Baldelli (DL) replaces Jonathan Van every (minors)
  • Daisuke Matsuzaka (DL) replaces Hunter Jones (minors)
  • Dan Bard (minors) replaces Javier Lopez (minors)

25-man Roster:

1B – Kevin Youkilis (R)
2B – Dustin Pedroia (R)
SS – Julio Lugo (R)
3B – Mike Lowell (R)
C – Jason Varitek (C)
RF – J.D. Drew (L)
CF – Jacoby Ellsbury (L)
LF – Jason Bay (R)
DH – David Ortiz (L)


R – Rocco Baldelli (OF)
L – Mark Kotsay (OF/1B)
R – Nick Green (IF)
L – George Kottaras (C)


L – Jon Lester
R – Josh Beckett
R – Tim Wakefield
R – Brad Penny
R – Daisuke Matsuzaka


R – Jonathan Papelbon
L – Hideki Okajima
R – Manny Delcarmen
R – Justin Masterson
R – Ramon Ramirez
R – Takashi Saito
R – Dan Bard

15-day DL:

SS – Jed Lowrie (wrist surgery)
RHP – John Smoltz (shoulder surgery)

60-day DL:

RHP – Miguel Gonzalez (TJ)

Typical Lineup:

R – Dustin Pedroia (2B)
L – J.D. Drew (RF)
R – Kevin Youkilis (1B)
R – Jason Bay (LF)
R – Mike Lowell (3B)
L – David Ortiz (DH)
S – Jason Varitek (C)
L – Jacoby Ellsbury (CF)
R – Nick Green (SS)

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Game Thread  Series Preview

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 thelarmis   ~  Jun 9, 2009 5:42 pm

by the time i get home from work tonight, the game should be long over. which means, i’ll catch up with you guys around the 6th inning, or so! ; )


2 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:02 pm

What are the chances the Yanks win two out of three? Really, only a Sox sweep would be a crushing blow. One of three; that's one to grow on!

3 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:04 pm

Matsui riding the pine, Gardy in instead.

4 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:08 pm

[3] Strangely, I have no problem with that.

5 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:10 pm

With a win tonight, they clinch no worse than a tie in the division heading home for their series with the depleted Mets. Man, I'd love a sweep for some payback for that 0-5 start to the season series! Let them have something to think about for a change until they face each other next in August!

.724 ball in their last 29 is no joke! What a great month! 1998-esque (sorry Alex)!

Time to crush "Conrad Cat!"

: )

6 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:13 pm

Matsui needs the rest it seems like. Burnett makes me nervous. But hopefully we'll do alright.

7 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:13 pm

the funny part to me is the 3 outfielders as the bottom 3 hitters.
how many al lineups look like that ?
obviously damon as the dh and strength in the infield is part of it - it just looks strange though

here's hoping for a good burnett game

8 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:16 pm

No Ellsbury tonight. Hurt himself. Not very serious -- a bruised shoulder. Kotsay will start (I don't know why they don't use Baldelli, who's a much better fielder.)

9 Shaun P.   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:24 pm

[8] Will Carroll said Ellsbury will likely miss the next five days or so, so it sounds like he'll be out for the series. Will also thought Baldelli would be his replacement - maybe Kotsay has better numbers against Burnett?

10 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:25 pm

[7] yeah that is interesting observation. LIke you said though we have one hell of a hitting infield. Combine that with injuries and Matsui riding pine tonight. interesting indeed.

11 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:28 pm

Expect Wang to throw about 90 pitches tomorrow. Wang says 90-100, Girardi says 85-90. (Via Pete Abe.)

12 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:33 pm

[7] If we don't pick up Holliday, you might be seeing a lot of that the next few years.

13 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:34 pm

This is my favorite type of weather to play golf in!

Baseball? Not so much...

London Fog

*insert foghorn here*

heh heh

14 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:42 pm

Cold, damp, miserable up here, 70 miles north of Boston. Crappy weather.

15 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:43 pm


That's horrid. Just atrocious. Would it really kill them to call up Duncan and DFA Berroa?

16 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:44 pm

[15] that wouldn't change that the bottom 3 in the lineup are outfielders.

17 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:44 pm


Dear God, nooooooooooo. There's absolutely no excuse for it given the cheap free agents this off-season and their resources. Just awful.

18 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:45 pm

@ 16

True, but at least they'd have a guy who could out slug Cabrera and Gardner.

19 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:46 pm

[15] He's been flat out rakin'... Duncan has...

20 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:47 pm

[15] He's got a lot of K's, but Jackson has been rakin', too...

21 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:47 pm

[12] I don't have a problem with that either.

22 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:51 pm

@ 19

Yup, and the Yanks being lefty heavy could use his righty bat. Just insane that Berroa is still on the roster. Truly crazy.

23 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:53 pm

@ 21

Then be prepared for fourth place finish. Jeter, Jorge, and A-Rod all north of 34 years are going to end up below average sooner rather than later.

24 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:55 pm

Say NO to Holliday this offseason, please.. for 2years sounds good while waiting for A-Jax.

25 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:56 pm

I didn't know Cashman was uninvolved with the draft prior to 2006. That seems crazy to me.

26 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:57 pm

[21] Yeah that's true, I forgot about those guys declining.

Well, until they do.

27 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 6:59 pm

[24] er, that should be "JD for 2 years"..need to wake up here..

28 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:02 pm

@ 27

I'm with you on that. Still, it's a very weak OF.

29 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:09 pm

any of you guys are getting mlb.tv?

30 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:10 pm

[29] I'm blacked out, dammit.

31 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:11 pm

Oh, good, we're going to get Beckett's pitch count up.

32 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:12 pm

looks pretty shitty for the start of a game

33 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:15 pm

Maybe it's not a big deal but I wish Jeter would not swing at the first pitch of the game like that. In general I think at lead-off he doesn't see enough pitches.

34 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:16 pm

Hey, Team.

Nice ab by Teix.

35 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:23 pm

Burnett's mustache.

36 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:24 pm

God, I can't even stand looking at this man.

37 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:26 pm

Oh, come on.

Let's not give them a cheap run here.

38 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:27 pm

[36] Pitching wiffleball to some of my students this spring, 2 of them imitated his batting stance. I told them to cut it out.

39 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:27 pm

Jorge's throwing may be a permanent liability, but he really has to cut down on the passed balls.

40 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:27 pm


41 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:28 pm

[38] He heh heh heh.

42 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:28 pm

The Orioles with the first semi-surprise of the draft.

43 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:28 pm

[36] I feel that way about Youkilis and Beckett.

44 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:30 pm

@ 39

Except he's thrown out 33% of basestealers this year.

45 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:30 pm

[39] I think catcher is going to be a weak position as far as hitting goes, pretty soon. Hopefully that means the defense will pick up. Jorge for DH next year.

46 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:31 pm

It's a My9 game tonight if you have MLBEI...

47 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:31 pm

[36] At least Beckett has a civilized motion.

48 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:32 pm

[45] Jorge has had a roller coaster career path as a defensive catcher. I hope he can manage a few more peaks over the next two seasons because I expect his bat to remain relatively strong.

49 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:33 pm

That pitch had a lot of action on it.

Just missed.

50 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:33 pm

I hate when Cano pulls outside pitches...when he and Matsui aren't going well, that's usually the reason.

51 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:33 pm

Where is the obligatory Lighthouse?

I'm expecting an appearance from Sherlock Holmes any time now...

: )

52 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:34 pm

[47] It's when he's standing still that my blood boils.

53 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:34 pm

[38] How old?

54 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:35 pm

[51] Yes, that was a terrible swing.

55 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:35 pm

[38] I'd have plunked them...

: )

56 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:36 pm

NIce. Another full count.

57 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:36 pm

God damn, that was a sick pitch.

58 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:36 pm

[50] A Rod does that a lot too.

I don't think Cano will ever fulfill his potential. He's too much of a lunkhead. His buddy Melky has more going on upstairs than he does.

59 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:38 pm

[53] Fourth graders. 9 and 10. [55] Who said I didn't . lol.

60 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:39 pm

[58] He may not max out his potential, but if he can bottle what he is doing this season and spread it out over 10 years, he'll have a very successful career.

61 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:40 pm

[59] heh heh

Good man! If they want to pretend they are Youkilis, plunk 'em like they are Youkilis!

: )

62 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:41 pm

[60] Yeah it'll be successful but he's just not an impact player, and it seems like he could have been. This is not a new narrative in sports, however - raw talent doesn't always equal dominance.

63 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:41 pm

Burnett's all over the place.

64 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:42 pm

Stick with the heat, A.J.

65 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:42 pm

wow shocker kay francona doesn't say ortiz is cooked

66 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:42 pm

[62] The guy could be an amazing number three hitter. It kills me to think he may never get there because he'd be a monster.

67 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm

of course

68 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm


69 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm

fuckong shit aj - give up a 2 run hr to ortiz

70 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm

Like I said, stick with the fastball. Good call Posada. Fuckin' unbelievable.

71 tommyl   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm

Well, good that AJ could get David Ortiz going again. How much are we paying this guy again? He's really that much better than Hughes?

72 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:44 pm

That's ridiculous...the Yankees still can't figure out how to pitch to THIS Ortiz?

73 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:45 pm

Holy shit! Is this schlub ever going to pitch again like he did at The Trop?


74 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:45 pm

curtain call in the 2nd inning, thats cute

75 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:45 pm

Wow, Burnett really, really sucks.

12 homers so far.

What a terrible, terrible signing.

76 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:45 pm

Waddya mean, Just Fair, you called that pitch!

77 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:45 pm

Big Poopi needs the love.

78 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:46 pm

ok that was lame.

79 Alex Belth   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:46 pm

AJ, you are garbage, bro. C'MON.

80 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:46 pm

It's the "Curse of Flash," I'm tellin' ya!

81 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:46 pm

I fucking can't believe that after Pavano, Cashman signed this fuckface. Of course, he never thought Pavano was a bad signing.

You suck Cashman!

82 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:47 pm

i went to gameday. i cannot watch burnett pitch

83 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:47 pm

[77] Not down broadway. Ugh.

84 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:47 pm

Come on, man, get it together. Find the fucking plate.

And no, I don't mean a bp fastball to Ortiz.

85 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:47 pm

[81] what is the connection, that they were both marlins? it's not as if burnett is hurt.

86 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:48 pm

[66] That's what I'm talking about, exactly. It's sort of sad.

It's hard to quantify really but in a sense I think what makes him successful, his relaxed approach, is what ultimately keeps him from becoming that monster.

87 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:48 pm

It really seems like when these two teams meet, the Yankees assume the old underdog role that Boston would always took.

88 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:48 pm

What the fuck? Seriously, this turd has never learned to throw strikes. What the fuck?

Such a fucking waste. Terrible and for four more years. Just awful.

89 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:48 pm

[80] Just as he was talking about the mind games working on Ortiz about being done. Next second, boom.

90 tommyl   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:48 pm

[85] They both were overrated and actually suck?

91 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:49 pm

I'm not even sure why I tune into the game some nights.

92 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:49 pm

They really should just throw all fastballs to Ortiz. More often than not, he aint gonna do much with them.

93 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:49 pm

The Lowell walk was largely bad umpiring. The Kotsay walk was entirely bad pitching.

94 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:49 pm

@ 85

Yet, he's not hurt yet. At this point I might pull a Tonya Harding. I'd rather watch Darrell fucking Rasner than this fuckface.

95 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:50 pm

[92] ??? That was a fastball he knocked over the Monster.

96 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:50 pm

[66] similarly, i think his ability to make contact hurts him, as he ends up making easy outs on pitches some batters would swing through or foul off, which i think is more the cause of his low walk total than his batting eye. he doesn't really seem to swing at that many balls anymore, he just tends to make a lot of outs by swinging at strikes early in the count.

97 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:50 pm

Oh for the love of Christ.

98 tommyl   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:50 pm

Well, solid play all around.

99 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:52 pm

how appropriate is it that the yanks get big pop-up out of his slump... hurts to say but they have our number big time... hate these games, since the 5 game sweep at fenway nothing good comes out of them

100 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:52 pm

[95] That's my point, that it was the right approach. Bad execution is all.

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:52 pm

NIce play, Alex. Very nice play.

102 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:52 pm

The Yankees have seemingly reverted back to the same team that dropped 5 games against Boston. Not being able to beat Boston isn't exactly the best way to win the AL East.

103 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:53 pm

I can't believe I even turned this shit on. I fucking knew Burnett was going to blow. He's just so damn infuriating to watch. Just a terrible pitcher. Daniel Cabrera would be more interesting.

104 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:53 pm

how exactly did pedroia win the MVP? I misremember

105 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm

Oh, fuck me.

106 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm

Well, Burnett blew with a 6-0 nothing lead. Maybe he'll do better when he's losing. That's all I got. : /

107 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm

jesus h christ - maybe they can get a rain out

108 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm


109 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm

[103] Dude, Burnett has a line very similar to Beckett's.

110 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:54 pm

Credit where it's due, kudos to Drew for going with the pitch.

111 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

You have to be able to execute a better 0-2 pitch...that pitch was flat out awful. If this is how the Red Sox felt like playing the Yankees all these years, I can't imagine how they dealt with it for so long.

112 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

[107] That would seem our only hope.

113 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

Really? $85 fucking million? Really?

Cashman you fucking suck. All you know is how to spend money and weasel another contract while passing the buck, you spineless prick.

114 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

[102] There are those that argue - technically correctly, I guess - that how they do against the Rays and Sox is not going to determine where they stand at the end of the season, but even if that's true, if you don't find their poor performance at least annoying, you watch sports very differently than I do.

115 tommyl   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

So Burnett has good stuff, except that his fastball isn't moving and he can't hit the broadside of the barn. Yeah, great stuff.

116 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:55 pm

[106] Yeah, hm. Maybe he can think of a way to score 6 runs, to make up for last time?

117 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:56 pm

Here's the bright side...the Yankees can use Tomko to mop up this game and save the rest of the bullpen for Wang tomorrow.

118 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:56 pm

[109] dude is a little high strung. this is tough to watch though.

119 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:56 pm

[106] as good a theory as any right now.

120 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:57 pm

I was kind of wishing I didn't have a ticket to go see a show tonight, but now I'm overjoyed to have an excuse to bow up from this slop early.

121 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:57 pm

Burnett used to pitch well against the Red Sox. The Yankees acquired him - I assume - for that reason, in part. It's unforgivable that he he does this after his last meltdown, which was pretty unforgivable in and of itself.

I'm starting to hate him a little.

122 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:57 pm

[114] I do think it matters more how well they play the Sox... I used to think the Rays, too, but maybe not.

123 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:58 pm

Great, fucking Brett Tomko...on a $200 million team. What a fucking joke

124 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:58 pm

Ye gods. This is getting out of hand quickly.

125 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:58 pm

alright aj get out of this god damn inning please

126 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:58 pm

And to think, we get to watch Wang rehab against this team tomorrow night...

127 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:59 pm

[121] well, just remember that these are just two games early in this season. A lot can change and often does. But right now he is painful to watch. I do hope that changes and soon.

128 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:59 pm

God. Bay's going to hit it out, isn't he?

129 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 7:59 pm

gonna be a looooong night at fenway. probably a 13-2 score with Tomko pitching in relief for 3 exciting innings

130 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

[122] It matters to me. Anyone with any passion for, you know, competition would feel the same way. You want to beat your rivals - it means something.

131 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

[126] win or lose I'm looking forward to that.

132 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

Is it too late to bring Wang into this game and have Hughes start tomorrow?

133 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

Or maybe AJ won't throw anything within ten feet of the plate.

134 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

[130] Agreed.

135 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:00 pm

61 pitches is just brutal.

136 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:01 pm

[117] And, this is probably our worst match-up. (Well, obviously, but I mean that would have been a reasonable call before the game started, too.)

137 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:01 pm

[127] True, and maybe it's not technically unforgivable, but it will take a lot to forgive.

138 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:02 pm

[132] I distinctly remember you asking me on the thread last night how many times one could expect long relief opportunities. I don't know if you saw my answer...

139 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:02 pm

[130] absolutely true. it burns me when we lose to the fake bloody sox.

140 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:02 pm

[130] Right, but I'm not really thinking of the Rays as rivals so much.

141 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:02 pm

I gave up on tomorrow's game with wang going and I thought the Thursday game was the good match-up so I saw this game was the rubber-match. guess we lose the series.

142 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:03 pm

[141] I think the Wa-Wa match-up favors us.

143 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:04 pm

It took a month of the Yanks playing .750 ball to erase the feeling that they were Boston's bitch. And here, two innings into the game, that feeling is back.

144 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:04 pm

Well off the plate. Not it matters.

145 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:04 pm

[138] I did see it, but my point was you can't schedule them, so it's hard to build a plan around them. The Yankees only play Boston 18 times, so starters giving it up early don't happen regularly and on time.

146 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:04 pm

That wasn't a strike last inning for AJ, but I guess Beckett gets that call against Melky.

147 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:05 pm

someone wanna explain to me what the Fenway Family Hour is? Are the Osmonds somehow involved?

148 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:05 pm

If the Red Sox get Scheppers, this night will be even worse.

Nice to see slappy in there against Beckett.

149 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:06 pm

[147] No, it's the hour when you aren't allowed to scream "Yankees Suck!"

150 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:06 pm

[147] it probably involves cage fights where the contestants wear catcher's masks.

151 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:06 pm

[140] Well, they're not, as much.

152 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:07 pm

Ya know, to be fair to Burnett, A Rod makes a play there and he's out of the inning after giving up two runs. Sure it's an infuriating dinger to give up, but I'll take two runs over four!

153 PJ   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:09 pm

[89] Well he also foiled their nine game winning streak working the booth in the tenth game!

Clearly his sub mediocrity rubs off on the team simply by his mere presence!

A friggen four run second inning???

I'm not watching any more games that either Flash works or Burnett "pitches!"


I'm going to the practice range and hit about 100 of Burnett and Flash's heads!

G'night folks...

154 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:09 pm

[152] To be fair to Burnett, he hasn't had three innings of pathetic ABs either. It's easy to dump on AJ, but this entire team has played like deer in headlights against Boston.

155 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:09 pm

[152] honestly, it is less the runs that bug me but the way he doesn't throw strikes and every at bat seems a struggle against even the most inferior hitters.

156 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:10 pm

I'm afraid for Melky.

157 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:10 pm

I blame our resident psychic, thelarmis. He predicted it would be over by the 6th. :-P

158 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:10 pm

[154] Beckett's pitching very well.
They'll come alive, I have no doubt.

Okay, little doubt.

159 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:10 pm

[156] ?

160 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:10 pm

[145] Well, when 3 out of every five starts yields a long relief opportunity, one can build I plan, I suspect. In any case, I was responding humorously to your query about whether they could use Wang to clean up this mess and start Hughes tomorrow. First, that is the plan I would have adopted all along. Second, did anyone really--in their heart of hearts--not expect AJ to go all crooked this game?

161 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:11 pm

[157] No, I think he predicted it would still be the sixth when he got home!

162 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:12 pm

There's obviously something wrong with AJ from a mechanical standpoint. The frustrating thing is that he can't seem to correct it. Unless you want to punish him, I would lift him now and bring in Tomko.

163 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:12 pm

[160] In my heart of hearts, I was not optimistic. I was sort of glad he was matched up with Beckett, who I figured would give Boston their best start of the series...

164 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:12 pm

[142] In normal circumstances or back in the day ('05-'07) the Wang-Wakefield match-up favors the yanks. I don't think any match-up at this stage that has Wang starting, favors the yanks.

165 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:12 pm

[159] I'm a Melky booster, but he hasn't done very well since he came back from that injury. I don't know if that's the cause, but the results have been poor. Not expecting him to hit .320 all year but it's been a precipitous decline.

166 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:13 pm

[160] I expected AJ to pitch very well tonight. I also expected them to hit Beckett. Apparently, I need to pay better attention when the Yankees and Red Sox play.

167 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:14 pm

@ 154

Do you really have your head that far up your ass? They guy has thrown 71 pitches and doesn't have an out in the third.

But yeah, let's be "fair" to him.

168 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:14 pm

[164] I do. I think he's going to be pretty good tomorrow. He won't go deep into the game, but I predict he'll pitch well, with one bad inning.

169 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:14 pm

[163] Yeah. Actually, along those lines, I was hoping Wang was going against Beckett.

170 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:14 pm

[166] I felt the same way, at least about Beckett. Call it misplaced optimism.

171 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

[164] my only concern with Wang is temperature.

[165] yeah he is slumping for sure. It could be the injury. we've seen it with Jeter before where he gets hurt and plays but can't hit for a lick for a bit. Tex went through that as well this year.

172 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

[166] Beckett's been very good this month.

173 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

Burnett doesn't look like he normally does...it seems so obvious that he is opening up well before release. I don't understand why he can't make an adjustment.

174 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

@ 166

Wow, you really do have your head buried far in your anus.

I suppose Girardi didn't properly motivate the team, and Burnett, for tonight.

175 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

[167] Cut that out, will you?

176 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:15 pm

my only concern with Wang is temperature.

You're not a urologist, by any chance...?

177 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:16 pm

Lowell with some charity for his old organization?

178 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:16 pm

[172] So have the Yankee hitters though. I really thought this lineup would get to Beckett...and that the Yankees would do very well in this series. Only three innings, I'd sign up for the C.C. game and just go meet the Mets.

179 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:16 pm

[170] I mean Burnett, not Beckett.

180 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:16 pm

i have little faith in aj no matter who the yanks ae playing or where - so this is not a shocker to me - still annoying as all hell, but not a surprise

at least lowell is still slow as hell

181 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:16 pm

Yeah, Jorge's arm is a "permanent liability".

182 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:17 pm

[176] lol

183 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

[181] To be fair (to use the phrase), that was Mike Lowell "running".

184 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

Yeah, five walks in 3.2 IP. Let's be "fair" to him.

185 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

[180] I think he's kind of a head case.

186 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

wtf, Lowell tried to steal second?

187 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

[175] Just ignore it...it will go away if deprived of attention.

188 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:18 pm

Cano contributing to the team effort...

189 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:19 pm

43 balls against 38 strikes. But let's be "fair" to him.

190 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:19 pm

[188] To be fair...

Nah, screw it.

191 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:19 pm

[185] he seems to be one for sure. He was so lights out to start the year but then he started nibbling.

192 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:20 pm

good god this is horrid

193 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:20 pm

[188] Excellent observation. A total team effort for this mess.

194 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:21 pm

@ 187

Oh, I'm sorry. I should be "fair":to your idiocy.

Wooooo! Brett Tomko! Woooooo!

Fuck you Cashman. Fuck you.

195 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:21 pm

well that was inspiring

196 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:21 pm

[193] I feel that Teixeira has not yet contributed.
Also, the bullpen, but they'll certainly be getting their chance verrrrry soon.

197 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:21 pm

Burnett was awful, but there was no reason whatsoever for him to have still been in the game. With an untrained eye, it was obviosu to see that Burnett's mechanics were off. Leaving him to give up more runs this inning was pretty foolish.

198 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:22 pm

Nick Green has played surprisingly well for the Sox.

Tomko was warming.

199 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:22 pm

[191] he just seems to have very little ability to make adjustments and fix his mechanics. unlike other head cases he actually stays kind of calm on the mound - just looks frustrated but not like a crazy nutjob

200 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:22 pm

I don't suppose this is Joba's throw day? He could pull a Pettitte.

Show/Hide Comments 201-300
201 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:22 pm

[197] I don't agree. You hope that he can fight through it with a veteran like AJ. You have to because you don't want to bring you bullpen in in the third inning ever.

202 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:22 pm

@ 197

There it is! This game was Girardi's fault! Start your bitching now!

203 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:23 pm

[198] Green really hasn't been very good. He's a bad fielder.

204 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:23 pm

[200] they'll never let Joba do that. I do wish we had Hughes tonight. I think he'll make appearance.

205 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:24 pm

[203] how the frack is he not hurt by now is my question.

206 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:24 pm

You can't bring a reliever in to start the 3rd unless there's an injury, you just can't. Maybe thats me being a slave to "The Book", but a rule of thumb like that is in "The Book" for a reason...because it's true

207 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:24 pm

@ 204

Why? What's the point?

208 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:24 pm

What, 5-0 already??? Oh AJ..you came and you take without giving..now let's send you away, oh AJ...

209 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:25 pm

Boston takes Raymond Fuentes...Yankees are on the clock.

210 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:25 pm

I really hope they just leave Tomko in to take it for the team. They can't fry the BP today and then have Wang throw his simulated game tomorrow.

211 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:25 pm

wow, bum rush are we in a bad mood today?

212 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:25 pm

So, what are the odds that Beckett beans someone tonight? I bet he nails Teixeira, but not until the seventh inning.

213 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:26 pm

[203] Didn't we pick him up when he was hitting .077, to be our all-glove, no-bat reserve infielder?

Though he seems to play 2B better than SS.

214 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:26 pm

[210] Me too.
[211] Oh, you haven't met?

215 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:27 pm

[201] Normally I'd agree, but for 2+ innings you could plainly see Burnett flying open well before release. That simply wasn't going to produce good results. I don't see the point in leaving him.

216 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:27 pm

OK, here we go. big comeback.

217 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:27 pm

alright yanks let's try to make this a game - not completely over yet

218 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:28 pm

@ 211


2.2 innings, 5 hits, 5 walks, 84 pitches - 40 strikes.

All for 85 million!

Then we have people here saying we should be "fair" to him.

219 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:28 pm

[214] nope.

220 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:29 pm

Yankees leave Scheppers on the board and go for Heathcott.

221 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:29 pm

[219] Ah. You're in for a treat! I envy you.

222 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:29 pm

[220] I'll bite: who's Heathcott?

223 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:30 pm

[214] he is always like this?

224 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:31 pm

Man, the 97 mph sinker is freaky. When Beckett is on, he's really on.

225 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:31 pm

[220] Yeah, but his name is Slade!


226 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:32 pm

[218] well, I don't like the performance either, but c'mon people are just giving their two cents here. Nobody at this forum has any decision-making powers in the front office. We're just fans.

227 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:32 pm

So, both Boston and the Yankees go with high risk/high reward toolsy CF'ers...the Sox' pick with more speed and the Yanks pick with more power. I thought one of them would think Scheppers was too promising to pass up, but I guess not.

228 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:32 pm

Wait a second..Beckett is throwing a no-no so far?

cmon A-Rod take this jerk over the Monster now and get us back in it!

229 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:33 pm

[223] No, no.Sometimes like this, but then other times he gets into a bad mood.

230 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:33 pm



and no.

231 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:35 pm

yeah - broke up the no-hitter

232 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:35 pm

Wait, when we talk about the no-hitter in progress, does that work against Beckett, or for him??? Who's in charge of superstitions around here? Maybe I should pop over to Dodger Thoughts and ask them.

233 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:35 pm

I hate it when this guy is on. nasty flashbacks of that stupid '03 WS

234 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:36 pm

@ 223

No, not always. I certainly don't have any animus toward Girardi.

@ 226

There's two centd and then there's utter, worthless drivel. There's absolutely no reason to be "fair" to Burnett with that craptastic start.

Worse, we get 4.6 more years of this shit.

235 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:36 pm

[232] I think it always works against your desired outcome. Sorta like momentum.

236 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:36 pm

[233] I know..it's all the more infuriating because he's just so so good when he's "on", you kinda have to admire it..

Cmon Jorgie, Juice one here!!

237 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:37 pm

damn - i thought po might win that battle

238 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:38 pm

Did Michael Kay just call Beckett "Burnett"...twice?

239 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:38 pm

[235] Oh, inverse momentum. Heap powerful, then.

240 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:40 pm

Hitting ability: Heathcott has plus hitting ability from the left side of the plate.
Power: He has plus power to all fields.
Running speed: Even with a knee brace, he showed above-average speed.
Base running: Has great instincts on the bases and will be a base-stealer in the future.
Arm strength: Also clocking in at 95 mph in the past off the mound, his arm from the outfield is a big plus.
Fielding: He's a plus defender who can play all three outfield positions well.
Range: His speed and his instincts allow him to cover a lot of ground.
Physical Description: Heathcott is muscular with broad shoulders and a v-cut torso.
Medical Update: He had ACL reconstruction surgery in November and has been playing with a knee brace, but shows no ill effects. He recently sprained a shoulder diving for a ball in the outfield, but sustained no structural damage.
Strengths: Plus tools across the board. Intense competitor with instincts beyond his years.
Weaknesses: There are some off-the-field issues that concern some. His makeup on the field is fine, but his character is the question.
Summary: Heathcott is a very interesting high school outfielder with plus tools across the board. Even after November ACL surgery, he runs extremely well, has a plus arm from the outfield and can really hit for average and power from the left side of the plate. He's an intense competitor, but there is some concern over character issues off the field. The team that gets those questions answered could be the one to take him on Draft Day.

241 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:40 pm

[222] He's talking about the MLB draft going on right now.

242 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:40 pm

Putrid start by Burnett, A Rod error notwithstanding. Burnett was all over the place and it would have caught up with him eventually.

On the other hand, why the hell can't the Yankees recognize Beckett's curve? Most of the time he's not even throwing his nastiest curve, and they still can't pick it up ... *plop* - strike one!

243 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:40 pm

[234] seriously, i may be breaking the rules here, but you are such a dick i never agree with you even when i agree with you. it's not funny, it's just rude.

244 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:42 pm

[237] If that was a battle, the Yanks are in more trouble than I thought!

245 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:44 pm

[244] well it's all relative :}

even the rain can't wash away his ugly - but damn youkilis hits

246 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:44 pm

Still time but..this one hurts. I can't see Wang winning tomorrow, and CC "should" beat Penny so this was the rubber game..to get SUCH a bad start from AJ is really dissapointing, the guy is just not reliable..

247 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:45 pm

[234] Been visiting this blog for the past 5 years and rarely people insult each other, even if you think somebody makes a bad argument, just respect it and move on.

248 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:45 pm

@ 243

Ah, but I'm the "dick". Good to know.

249 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:45 pm

[246] Wang Will Win.
Mark my words, Mr OK.

250 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:45 pm

wtf, dipshit just stole second?

251 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:46 pm

Tomko has, amazingly, slowed the pace of the game even more.

252 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:46 pm

[249] i'm with you. But i'm worried about the cold. His sinker does better in the warmer weather.

253 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:46 pm

With Burnett's mechanics be so out of whack, it makes you wonder if the 7 days between starts had a negative impact.

254 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:46 pm

[240] I wonder what those "off the field" issues are...

255 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:47 pm

[249] I want to believe! From my friend in Taiwan, a nation there really is turning it's lonely eyes towards CMW..if he thinks there is pressure from NYY fans it's nothing to what he's facing back home in the media apparently..

256 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:47 pm

ugh brett tomko - just when i was going to praise you a bit

257 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:47 pm

guess tomko is doing his best burnett impresion. lot's of hitters counts and walks

258 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:48 pm

...so I get the NESN feed tonight, and the Sox announcers just got done with a length y discussion about, wait for it, who will pitch the eighth inning for the Yankees.


And it's still only the fourth inning.

259 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:48 pm

[249] You are brightening an otherwise dreary evening with your positive thoughts. Gotta love it!

260 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:48 pm

I have faith in the Wanger.

261 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:48 pm

[252] Oh, right. Your urological powers.

262 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:48 pm

@ 247

I have no respect for a poster who makes up shit just to try to win an argument. Given that they never STFU, I have very little patience for the drivel. It's a constant stream of worthless nonsense.

Tonight alone I've been told that Jorge's arm is a "permanent liability" and that we should be "fair" to Burnett.

Sorry, but bullshit needs to be called out. I expect the same treatment. Problem is, I don't peddle in outright lies.

263 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:49 pm

[254] His father is in prison on drug charges and his mother has been an addict. He has been estranged from his parents and struggled academically.

264 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:51 pm

Wow...a 3-1 fastball down the middle and he does that with it?

265 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:51 pm

[258] bahhaha - i guess it is reflex at this point - if this game continues with the current pace no one on earth will give a damn who pitches the 8th inning - not even jose veras or whoever is stuck there

266 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:52 pm

[246] Unreliable is the word for Burnett. It's not good. This start makes Wang's resurgence even more important. The Yanks need a legit #2 and I don' think Burnett can be it.

267 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:52 pm

[262] ...outright lies.

Not all inaccuracies or incorrect statements are "lies." I really doubt that most posters here are trying to "lie", even when I disagree with them. Chill out, dude.

268 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:53 pm

[265] Maybe we'll get to see Nick Swisher pitch again.

269 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:53 pm

[264] Giving up a dinger to Ortiz..just inexcusable from AJ! I am very dissapointed with his performance..(cue Tommy Lasorda!)

But, it's just one game and overall I like the Yankees chances in the ALCS against Boston. CC, Joba, Phil, Wang as the starters, AJ rides the pine..

270 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:53 pm

[262] not sure why i'm bothering, but you seem to get worse and worse. both the things you cite are not "bullshit" or "outright lies," even if you or i disagree. i disagree with william very often, and sometimes i get frustrated by his negativity or anti-girardi stance. but i don't think anyone here is a liar, and i don't think that anyone here deserves the kind of treatment you give him and others.

271 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:54 pm

at least we can count on catcher's mask to suck.

272 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:54 pm

[268] I could go for that. He could bean Youk and chalk it up to bad control.

273 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:55 pm

[272] is it a bean if it is 70 mph?

274 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:56 pm

@ 267

Who said "most posters"? I didn't. I'm referring to one and only one. Dude lies just to try to win bullshit arguments on a baseball blog. It's pathetic.

@ 270

And yet, you called me a "dick" and when we have exactly zero history. Kettle meet black.

275 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:56 pm

The only thing that I am still interested in is whether the official scorer will change cano's grounder to an error.

276 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:56 pm

[268] [272] yeah - he could drill youk and care about the 8th inning.

277 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:56 pm

[262] Since you expect the same treatment, I call bullshit on you using Burnett's final line to criticize the "be fair" comment which was made when he'd given up 2 ER, and the future - parallel universes notwithstanding - still unwritten. Bullshit, I say.

278 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:57 pm

[274] i disagree with william frequently. But I agree with what [270] said.

279 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:58 pm

[270] I spent a couple of months engaging Bum until I finally figured out his motive was to engage in arguments that descend into name calling, especially when presented with an argument that he can't refute. I haven't replied to a single post of his in weeks (there really is no need to) and will never again...regardless of the topic. I wish others would do the same to avoid having all these threads get bogged down in childish nonsense. Having said that, I actually take his obsession with me as a complement.

280 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:58 pm

[273] Hmm.
In the ear?

[276] That's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

281 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:58 pm

[278] Sigh.
Much as I hate togetherness, ditto.

282 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:59 pm

@ 277

Really, you're using ER to talk about his outing? Were you watching the game or the boxscore?

283 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:59 pm

[271] "Catcher's mask" - I love it.

284 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:59 pm

[280] it'd never get there lol. maybe the urological tract.

285 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 8:59 pm

I hate Beckett. Smug SOB.

286 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:00 pm


Whatever. I don't think anyone is "lying," and certainly the two examples you cite do not qualify as "lies."

Anyway, I'm done with spat. You boys work it out.

287 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:01 pm

well there goes the chance for a rainout

would be nice to get a couple of runs though - we need the MOMENTUM going into tomorrow :}

288 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:02 pm

[282] No, that was posted back in the third inning so it was to talk about the second inning, not the outing. Which was my point above, so now that I've repeated it, I may as well call "bullshit" again, since you're doing the same thing.

289 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:02 pm

what we need is for the boys to draw 20 pitches out of becket next inning and knock him out.

290 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:02 pm

@ 279

Boo-hoo. Sucks being outed, doesn't it? Finally someone has called you out for what you are. Still waiting to hear how the Yanks are losing money based on your superior understanding of "financial concepts":

I take pride in the fact that you post less often these days. Bullying the bully actually works.

291 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:03 pm

[285] Being one-hit by him is painful..he's actually approaching Schilling level for me in terms of unlikeability..at least he's not a phony like Curtis though

292 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:03 pm

[287] I'm hoping Gardner hits two home runs, so he can once again have more homers than Big Papi. ;-)

293 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:04 pm

@ 288


Really, you're using ER to talk about his first two innings? Were you watching the game or the boxscore?

294 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:04 pm

If Wang doesn't pitch well tomorrow, CC will be under a lot of pressure on Thursday. Should the Yankees get swept, things could get pretty ugly with the Mets coming up. Baseball is an amazing game in that the tenor of a season could change on a dime. A month ago, the Yankees seemed dead, but heading into tonight they seemed like the best team in baseball. If they should have a bad week, however, things could get ugly once again. Thankfully, the Nationals and Marlins are on the schedule after that.

295 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:05 pm

[289] Exactly.
Even if we lose, I don't want Beckett getting the CG.

296 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:05 pm

[274] i'm sorry i called you a dick. but at least it wasn't an outright lie.

297 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:06 pm

[294] I don't think CC feels pressure.

298 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:07 pm

[292] yeah let's hope soon - for now we will have to settle that he has the better hr rate

299 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:07 pm

[297] I agree...let me correct that...if Wang loses tomorrow, I will feel alot pressure! This would not be a good week to go 1-5 or 2-4!

300 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:08 pm

Brett Tomko for President!

Show/Hide Comments 301-400
301 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:08 pm

that was not an easy catch - pretty nice play swish

302 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:09 pm

A while back we talked about how rare positive events could (or couldn't) spark momentum. Maybe the Sox got momentum from Papi's HR? I think that would qualify.

303 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:10 pm

@ 296

Apology accepted. And no, it's not a lie. But I don't give a fuck. A bully needs to be bullied, especially when they make shit up just to try to win arguments.

304 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:10 pm

One more loss to the BoSox doesn't worry me too much..it's AJ's "performance" that is much more troubling..wasn't he supposed to be a guy who "gets up" for the AL East battles??

Yankees are one bullpen addition away from being the best team in baseball, so I am 100% confident that championship #27 is on the way. So go paak your cahhh with that Peter Gammons!

Ok, I'm done now, have a good night Banterers.

305 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:10 pm

[294] i would hate to start off 0-7 against them, but we'd still only be a game behind. it would be very annoying, but not the end of the world or season. in 1999, we went something like 3-8 against the sox, then beat them 4-1 in the alcs.

306 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:10 pm

[302] I think they got positive momentum from AJ walking out dugout, and nothing more.

307 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:11 pm

[293] I call bullshit on you criticizing posts using information unavailable to the original poster. It's total, utter bullshit. You ought to own up to it. If you want bullshit called on you, but don't own up to it, it's a pointless exercise.

You used the final line to criticize a point made before the final line existed. Bullshit.

308 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:11 pm

jeter - we're driving his pitch count up. wtf?

309 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:12 pm

ok, all we need is a 17 pitch AB from Tex.

310 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:12 pm

@ 302

Yeah, the five walks and four other hits had nothing to do with the "momentum".

311 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:12 pm

[308] I am not sure that was the game plan tonight. Aside from Tex, there has been a lot of early ball swinging tonight.

312 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:12 pm

Penguins leading 1-0 in the second.

313 tocho   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:13 pm

[293] still don't understand the need to insult somebody because you think he's wrong or lying... that's my last post on that subject.

Anyway, Beckett's been lights out tonight, 1-0 would have been enough...

314 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:14 pm

well, i'm going to read for a bit. i'll be back if things get interesting. laters.

315 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:14 pm

@ 307

You're moving the goal posts. Burnett sucked in the first. He sucked in the second. He sucked in the third.

There was never any reason to be "fair" to him tonight except before the first pitch was thrown.

Seriously, are you watching the game?

316 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:15 pm

[303] but you've made yourself into the bully. no one else talks to anyone the way you do. and you use every opportunity to bully william (see [310]). now people just roll their eyes at your posts, even when you have something interesting to say.

317 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:15 pm

Thank god for Cano tonight, huh?

318 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:17 pm

[317] I'm tellin' ya', the scorer is going to change that to an error. The sox announcers were already saying last inning that if dusty came up with a clean handle he would thrown robbie out.

319 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:18 pm

@ 313

Sorry, mate, but there's a history. You're right, of course, but I'm dick like that.

Do you know when williamnyy23 is lying?
When his fingers are moving.


Still, bullying the bully has worked. He's more careful now. I take pride in that.

Then we get gems like #302.

320 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:18 pm

[316] A bully needs some kind of authority (i.e., strength, influence, intelligence, etc.). I think this qualifies as stalking, which brings with it a kind of perverse flattery. As long as I don't see him lurking outside my window, it's kind of amusing.

321 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:19 pm

Oh damn...now Beckett will ask to stay in the game and will hit Arod.

322 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:19 pm


323 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:20 pm

[318] C.C. had a 1-hitter with a questionable play that the Brewers lobbied to have changed into an error. I can't imagine that happening...it would be very controversial.

324 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:20 pm

@ 316

Fine, that doesn't bother me. It's a more equal forum now than when I arrived. Then it was one guy with post after post of utter nonsense. Now it's noticeably better. That's enough for me.

Something was wrong on the internets!

325 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:21 pm

Veras vs. Ortiz...something has to give here.

326 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:21 pm

[315] You're avoiding the issue. I'm not going to repeat it, just read my last post, or the first one on the subject, it's all there in plain English. The goal posts are still me calling bullshit on you as per your request. If you can't take it like a man, I fear your standing in the community may suffer.

327 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:22 pm

[322] I dont think so, but it was Bay, who has ripped the Yankees.

328 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:22 pm

[321] He was going to do it anyway. See [212].

329 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:23 pm

[327] Joba hit Bay last meeting. I'm pretty sure Beckett was planning a retaliation if the right moment arrived.

330 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:24 pm

[329] Hmmm...maybe that's why the bullpen was warming up?

331 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:24 pm

[316] i think it's more even because the yankees are playing better, not because you call bullshit on anything william says. he doesn't even pay attention to you. you have opinions that i frequently agree with, yet the way you frame them just makes me angry. as you say, we have no "history," but i've witnessed your "history" with a bunch of other posters and i never come away thinking your behavior was justified. i just wish you'd understand that your attitude does no good.

332 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:25 pm

@ 326

I don't even know what you're saying any more.

You win! You called bullshit. Good job!

333 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:26 pm

[329] beckett is probably always planning a retaliation. but since he is out it is on mdc or whichever of their other relivers is "wild"

334 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:26 pm

If Arod gets plunked, I hope he just walks to 1B.

335 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:26 pm

Okay, I was wrong.
Maybe DelCarmen will do the beaning??

336 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:27 pm

[332] He said the same thing three times: that you used an ex post facto argument to critique what a poster had said.

337 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:27 pm

Frankly, of the 3 games, this was the one we had the least chance in. Beckett had been VERY good in his last 6 starts. AJ doesn't seem to be holding up well in NY.

Here's a CRAZY idea that would never happen:
If Wang is OK and back in the rotation, put AJ in the BP.

338 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:27 pm

Bringing Delcarmen into a 6-0 game, and not having it be a bad move, shows you just how deep the Boston bullpen is.

339 ms october   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:28 pm

[337] i have thought of that too oyf - prolly won't happen because of what they are paying him - but aj to the bullpen has some merit

340 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:28 pm

Kind of silly, but I was hoping a lead off walk there might get something going.

341 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:29 pm

[332] I know you don't understand this, but conversations are not abouting 'winning' or 'losing'.

342 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:30 pm

[312] I thank the Pens for allowing me to avoid the Fens tonight. Just embarrassing. Lot of scrums along the boards in here this eve.

343 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:30 pm

[341] That's what losers always say.

344 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:32 pm

@ 331

Really? The dude was criticizing Girardi this morning for using Coke last night. He's still bullshitting but he's been completely exposed. It just took all the air out of his ass.

Furthermore, why should it take them winning for it to become more even. One guy was dominating the forum. Now he's not. That's a good thing, no matter how much of a dick I might be.

I'm glad you agree with me but I can't change. I am who I am. And if you disagree with with me, speak up. That's what makes these forums interesting...when folks have an honest discussion.

345 51cq24   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:32 pm

[343] calling out the bullshit!

346 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:35 pm

Kyle Farnsworth throws 100 mph. He doesn't get $100 million. Does he?

347 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:35 pm

@ 341

Umm, that was a joke.

@ 337, 339

And how do you think the walks would play in the bullpen? Of course, it's moot point. Cashman never gave up on Pavano. He's certainly not going to give up on Burnett - ever.

348 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:37 pm

Did Strassburg go #1?

349 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:37 pm

1st bullshit joke I googled. : )

A turkey was chatting with a bull.
'I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree' sighed the turkey, 'but I haven't got the energy.'
'Well, why don't you nibble on some of my droppings?' replied the bull. They're packed with nutrients.'
The turkey pecked at a lump of dung, and found it actually gave him enough strength to reach the lowest branch of the tree.
The next day, after eating some more dung, he reached the second branch.
Finally after a fourth night, the turkey was proudly perched at the top of the tree.
He was promptly spotted by a farmer, who shot him out of the tree.
Moral of the story:
Bull Shit might get you to the top, but it won't keep you there..

350 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:39 pm

[332] Wow, you really can't admit it. It's pathetic.

I don't win by calling bullshit, but you do lose because you haven't got the guts to follow through on your own terms.

351 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:40 pm

A dominant theme on sports talk today was the relative difference in the HR tendencies of the two new ballparks. So, naturally, the Phillies and Mets have combined for 7 HRs tonight.

352 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:41 pm

[348] yes

353 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:42 pm

And to boot, there have been NO HRs at YS tonight.

354 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:42 pm

[348] He sure did...the interesting thing is Scheppers has fallen through the first round into the supplemental picks. If he falls to 76, I think the Yankees have to take him.

355 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:43 pm

Nick Green...you can only hope to contain him.

356 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:43 pm

[353] Actually, Jeter's fly out last inning did in fact land in the RF seats at Yankee Stadium.

357 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:43 pm

@ 350

Answer me this: Was Burnett pitching well when the "fair" comment was made?

358 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:44 pm

Nick Green hit a home run in his first at-bat as a Yankee, IIRC.

359 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:44 pm

Oh, good. I wasn't pleased with the idea that it was going to be a "good game" for Jose Veras. I admit there was a kind of ironic, perverse thrill to the idea, but on the whole, no. This is better.

360 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:44 pm

Maybe time to pull Posada out of the game?

361 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:45 pm

Hopefully that HR prevents Veras from sneaking his way into meaningful innings.

Meanwhile, it would be a nice time to remove Jorge from this game. Girardi needs to be more proactive with removing some of the veterans when games get out of hand. I don't think you wave the white towel before this inning, but now would be a good time to get him out of there.

362 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:45 pm

Yikes. As if this game weren't bad enough.

363 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:45 pm

[359] Is Mattpat still alive after the Green homer??

364 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:45 pm

[352] So I guess his signing bonus and the ensueing battle with be the talk of baseball for a while. I do think it's nuts, and a sign of the dysfunction of baseball capitalism, that someone can get $20m while never having played an inning in pro ball.

365 Alex Belth   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:45 pm


I know that Cliff and I aren't in the comments section during the games as much as we'd like. In fact, often, we don't appear at all. So I'm sure there is stuff that goes on that isn't exactly kosher all the time in terms of behavoir and decorum, and it is on me that I don't pay more attention and call people on it.

Without naming names, here's the deal. You guys can curse, vent and debate. But name-calling, insulting fellow commentors, that we can't have. "This aggression won't stand."

Seriously, have at it, disagree, but please don't trash one another.


366 RagingTartabull   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:46 pm

[357] dude let it go, he said we should be "fair" to Burnett. You said JP Ricciardi was a "good" GM.

we all say dumb things sometimes.

367 Alex Belth   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:47 pm

Oh, and constant baiting, refusing to let a point die, isn't doing anything for anyone but making things miserable.

368 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:47 pm

[365] Thank you, Alex.

369 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:48 pm

Okay, you heard the host. That's it. No mas.

370 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:48 pm

Mekly is having poor ABs of late.

371 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:48 pm

[358] Didn't he also hit some crazy moon shot about 440 ft to LCF? Maybe it was the same HR?

372 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:48 pm

[364] It has been and will be the talk of baseball, but I think the thing a lot of the arguments miss is that Strassburg will be Nationals propert for six years, so $50mn really means $8mn per year. If he is the real deal, and the Nats don't allow him to opt out in favor of arbitration (like Tampa did for Price), they could actually get a bargain.

As long as teams want to own a player for 6 years, I have no problem with them making any kind of salary demand.

373 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:49 pm

[357] Here I present the answer to Bum Rush's quandary. All he has to do is copy, paste and adjust to his inimitable "voice":

All right, I admit I did use an ex post facto argument [thanks to monkeypants for the Latin] but that shouldn't obscure the fact that Burnett was terrible however many ERs he gave up that inning ... were you even watching the game, is your head up your ass, etc etc etc ad nauseum ...

374 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:50 pm

[371] Yeah, I think that was it.

Brett Gardner with a bona fide hit...

375 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:51 pm

[367] I wrote that last one before I saw this.

376 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:53 pm

The goal now would be to see Papelbon in this game. And then go from there.

377 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:54 pm

Yeah, 51cq24, listen to the boss.

@ 366

Ricciardi is a good GM. Any other division and he's in the playoffs almost every year.

@ 365

Can we call ourselves names?

378 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:54 pm

Tanner Scheppers goes to Texas. Nolan Ryan serious about getting Texas decent pitching.

379 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:55 pm

[378] Looks like Texas is going to pony up on the draft. I am glad he didn't fall to Boston and hope the Yankees don't regret letting him slip past #29.

380 Just Fair   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:56 pm

Or 4-6-3. sigh

381 Yankster   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:59 pm

[357] You don't need to be "fair" to someone pitching a good game. You only need to be "fair" to someone when they seem to have started poorly but have enough innings left to turn it around. Wang, for example, often seems to have a bad inning, but then gets it back. So, in his case, you would be fair to him if you gave him the benefit of the doubt that he would be better in subsequent innings. Of course, sometimes he's not better in subsequent innings, and being fair to him will also subsequently seem unreasonable.

In today's case, AJ was pitching an incredibly crappy game but only had two ER at the point of the post. Given that in 22 2/3 innings he'd only given up just one earned run (an era of 0.40), it also seemed conceivable to me that despite pitching an amazingly crappy first two innings he could turn it around and pitch a quality game and give the team a chance to win. Granted, however, this was the Yank's worst matchup and the odds (according to today's WSJ) favored the sox 58 to yanks 42.

Given that context, it seems like rather than calling it bullshit you might have simply disagreed by pointing out, for example, that Burnett's last start against the sox was a 5 inning 8 ER disaster - and this looked exactly the same. That would have been nice. The whole bullshit thing seems so pointless.

382 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 9:59 pm

[274] Yep, I checked Hittracker, and his first HR (of two in 2006), in his first AB, went 441' !!


383 Chyll Will   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:00 pm

[349] "I'm not gonna eat turkey anymore" comes in a close second as far as morals are concerned, right? >;)

384 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:01 pm

"...for six years, so $50mn really means $8mn per year"
For 25 players, that's $200m/yr,
The purpose of the draft is to allow lesser, and often poorer teams to get some quality players cheap. And $8m/yr is IF he works out, which less then 1 in 5 do. He's the best pitcher since Pryor and whats-his-face (the kid the Yanks got that never made it).

We see so many big numbers, we lose concept of what it means for a single individual to get $20m in one shot. And for the chance to MAYBE make it? Not to produce but for the possibility of production?

Nuts. Insanity. Signing money run amuck.

385 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:02 pm

i do question the wisdom of using a fourth pitcher, especially after that rally fizzled. I would have let Veras close it out. Hell, I might have let Tomko close it out.

386 Yankster   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:02 pm

Wouldn't have written [381] if I'd seen [367]. My bad.

387 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:03 pm

[385] Oh, but this way, Veras could still be available tomor...

Okay, I see your point.

388 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:04 pm

@ 381

A+ for effort!

All good points. I would have given any other poster, and any other pitcher, the benefit of the doubt.

389 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:04 pm

Yankees take HS catcher John Murphy with their 2nd round selection.

390 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:05 pm

[384] All signings (draft or FA) are risks, to varying degrees. The high price of a big name draft pick represents the perceived potential for a high reward + the perceived lower risk for a blue chip prospect.

Also, one could argue that the purpose of the draft is not only to let "poorer" teams get cheap talent. Rather, its fundamental purpose is to let bad temas (rich or otherwise) have exclusive rights to the best young talent.

391 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:07 pm

It's kind of sad the home runs given up tonight were the 3rd of season for one player and 2nd for the other.

392 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:07 pm

[389] It's always tough to balance various needs in the draft, but I sometimes wish the Yankees would focus more on taking college position players, to infuse the organization with more nearer-to-ML position. Of course, the downside is this usually means taking players with lower upside.

393 Chyll Will   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:09 pm

[389] How did they justify that, "best athlete left on the board"?

394 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:09 pm

[384] Is that really the purpose of the draft? While the draft is designed to give teams restricted access to talent, it is not meant to guarantee they get them well below market value. If the Nats really think Strasburg is as good as everyone says, they should be glad they have a chance at him for only $50mn (even though I am sure the final number will be more like $25mn). If they don't think he is worth it, they should have selected Ackley.

I never quite understand why so many people are bothered by players getting paid what teams think they are worth. I am more bothered by players being denied that chance.

395 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:10 pm

[394] Hey! See [390]!!

396 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:10 pm

[392] The draft was full of low upside college position players, so I think the Yankees were wise to dip into HS.

397 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:11 pm

[395] No such thing as plagiarism on a blog, right?

398 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:12 pm

[396] I figured as much. But I meant more generally--the last couple years the Yankees have really stockpiled pitchers and low-level guys. I would be nice if they had a couple of position players, even if they project to be ML depth at best.

399 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:12 pm

The Red Sox really do have an excellent bullpen.

400 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:14 pm

[382] I remember that. It was a wild game. Turned into a total blowout. A football-like score.

Nick can hit it hard every once awhile. He nearly killed me at a Scranton game last year. I was in the upper deck, which is usually safe. Even if a ball makes it up there, there's not much juice in it by then. Especially out in right field, where I was. He hit a foul ball so hard the entire deck shook when it hit. (Just missed my head.)

Show/Hide Comments 401-422
401 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:14 pm

[399] They do. But tomorrow we will bash it.

402 RIYank   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:15 pm

Thank god that's over.

403 randym77   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:16 pm

[398] Didn't Cashman once say that that was his strategy? Grow your own pitching, buy free agent hitters?

404 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:18 pm

I'd have to think some of the Yankees will be a little embarassed in the post game. They seemed very confident coming into the game and openly talked about how they needed to win this series. I wonder what the tone will be. I hope the confidence is still there. Either way, this team really needs to play better against Boston. Until then, the Red Sox are their daddies.

405 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:18 pm

@ 403

That explains Pavano and Burnett!

Oh, wait...

406 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:18 pm

[403] I generally agree with him, especially with the Yankees' resources, but the cupboard has been pretty bare in MiL, at least regarding position players.

407 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:19 pm

Well. that may have been the poorest played game of the year for us.
You are a good capitalist William. No morality or reason. Just what the market will bear.

408 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:19 pm

[404] The Red Sox definitely have all the momentum!

; )

409 Bum Rush   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:21 pm

@ 404

It's all Girardi's fault. He should be embarrassed. He didn't have the team prepared for this game. They were overconfident.

410 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:21 pm

[407] To be fair, I think William champions the rights of the players (workers) to get what they are worth, over the power that the owners have to control/monopolize labor.

411 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:22 pm

wow, just glanced at the last 2 pages of comments and BOY, did i ever pick the right night to livechatter on RAB while watching the draft unfold.

but i'm glad everybody managed to sort out the question of "who's a bully" while i was gone ...

412 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:23 pm

[411] fuck you, dick.

Oops, sorry about that.

413 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:27 pm

[412] uh ... huh?

414 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:27 pm

[412] ;)

This loss already forgotten, we'll crush them tomorrow!

Daniel Bard though..Gameday had him at 100mph...yikes...

415 seamus   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:29 pm

[365] thanks Alex.

416 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:31 pm

I believe what a player is worth is not necessarily the same as what someone will pay. If your house is on fire, what would you pay the fireman if he fuses to act until you poney up? Capitalism says someone is 'worth' what someone is will to pay them. One person was willing to pay ARod $25m/yr back some years ago, so that (I guess) is what he was worth.

My opinion is that the fireman is worth more.

417 OldYanksFan   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:32 pm

pon(e)y up?

418 The Hawk   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:48 pm



419 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:49 pm

[407] Where is the morality in billionaire owners holding a hammer over high school and college kids? Also, where would the compassion come from if Strasburg blew out his arm?

420 williamnyy23   ~  Jun 9, 2009 10:54 pm

[416] The fireman is worth more when YOUR house is burning, but so much more comes into play. For starters, the list of people who can competently do the job of a fireman is probably a lot longer than those who can hit a 95mph fastball. As a result, the balance of power shifts toward the employer. Secondly, someone has to pay the salary. Alot of people who clamor for higher pay to teachers, firemen, police, etc. are also the first to vote against any measure that would increase taxes.

The bottom line is the comp between an athlete/movie star/musician and civil servant is faulty because they really have nothing in common.

421 monkeypants   ~  Jun 9, 2009 11:45 pm

[413] I guess you had to be there. Read through the bickering on the game thread...or better, just forget it.

422 cult of basebaal   ~  Jun 10, 2009 12:08 am

[421] actually, i got it after OK Tokyo's post right afterwards, i thought you were kidding, but given how nuts everyone seemed to be, i wasn't sure ...

just read the thread, sweet jesus what a train wreck.

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver