"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice

2010 Baltimore Orioles

I like to think I have a firm command of the obvious. To wit, the Orioles, who at 3-16 are four games worse than the next worst team in baseball less than 20 games into the season, aren’t this bad. After all, no team in baseball history has ever finished with a sub .200 winning percentage (the O’s are at .158 entering this week’s three-game series against the Yankees in Baltimore), and the O’s don’t profile as one of the worst teams in baseball history. What’s more, their Pythagorean winning percentage has them at a less compellingly awful .316.

Coming into the season, I thought that this would be the year the rebuilding O’s would slip past the directionless Blue Jays into fourth place, and I still feel that way. The Orioles have a solid collection of good young talent, some of which is still in the process of establishing itself in the major leagues, some of which could arrive in the bigs as the season progresses, and some of which may not even make it until next year or beyond. For that reason, when prescribing off-season strategies for all 30 teams for SI.com back in November, I said the Orioles needed to “avoid trying to buy in too early . . . Once those pieces have established themselves, the O’s can open up the coffers and flesh out the roster, but for now they’ll let [free agent Melvin] Mora go and should stick with inexpensive veteran stop-gaps in the infield . . . while giving the youngsters their opportunities.”

That’s exactly what the O’s did in bringing back the 36-year-old Miguel Tejada to play third base for $6 million, signing deposed Rockies third baseman Garrett Atkins to play first base for $4.5 million, and sticking with Cesar Izturis, on the second year of a two-year, $5 million contract, at shortstop. In a way, wins aren’t really what the O’s are after just yet. General Manager Andy MacPhail has been in enough rodeos to know that there’s no point shooting for a fluky 83-win division title in a division that also contains the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays. Instead, he’s taking his time, trying to get his kids established and sort the prospect wheat out from the remaining chafe. That sort of strategy can lead to exactly the sort of growing pains the O’s are experiencing now, but misfortune can create opportunity.

With the team desperate to get off the floor, manager Dave Trembley has found an excuse to bench the struggling rental Atkins in favor of minor leaguer Rhyne Hughes. Hughes is a 26-year-old rookie and not among the team’s better prospects, but he hit .301/.357/.510 in his Triple-A debut last year, and his time is now if ever. Hughes was the return for sending Gregg Zaun to the Rays in early August of last year, and if Hughes turns out to be a solid major leaguer, that’s essentially free production. If that happens, the decision to effectively leave first base “open” by signing Atkins will have been key to getting something for nothing there. Hughes has gone 4-for-9 with a walk in his first two major league games, one of which was the O’s third win of the season. That’s not terribly meaningful, but it’s better than having starting off with an 0-fer. Hughes is additionally compelling because the O’s top first-base prospect, Brandon Snyder, really isn’t. Snyder hits for average with some doubles, but he doesn’t walk much, doesn’t have significant home run power, and isn’t anything special in the field.

The O’s are much better off at third base, where they can thank another slick late-season deal for Josh Bell, who arrived from the Dodgers for lefty reliever George Sherrill at last year’s trading deadline. Bell is a big, power-hitting third baseman who is making his Triple-A debut this year and could be among the O’s prospects to arrive in the majors mid-year. There’s some concern about Bell’s defense at the hot corner, which makes him a peripheral concern in the first base picture as well, but wherever he plays, he should be a mid-lineup presence for the O’s in the very near future.

Add Bell and possibly Hughes to a lineup that already includes Matt Wieters and the outfield of Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, and Nolan Reimold, and the O’s have a solid young core that can be complimented through free agency or more deft trades. Before that can happen, however, those youngsters have to get their feet under them in the majors, which only Markakis has done thus far. Wieters and Jones are just 24 and Wieters, off to a solid start this year, has less than a full season of major league experience under his belt. Reimold, who like Markakis is 26 this season, is closer to Hughes than the other four and still needs to prove he’s a major league starter. The flip-side of the Atkins-Hughes situation is that the team’s start has been so bad that is has shortened the leash for lesser prospects such as Reimold. Despite a significant injury which will keep his primary left-field rival Felix Pie out until at least mid-season, Reimold, off to a slow start, has begun losing playing time to the still-older, still-lesser ex-prospect Lou Montanez (though Montanez is in the process of playing himself out of the lineup as well).

On the mound, the O’s have upgraded their brutal 2009 rotation by acquiring veteran Kevin Millwood, on the last year of his contract and thus effectively on another one-year deal, from the Rangers for reliever Chris Ray, who struggled mightily last year in his first year back from Tommy John surgery. More importantly, they’re already getting strong work from lefty Brian Matusz, who was the fourth overall pick in the 2008 draft and is a budding front-of-the-rotation starter and a popular pre-season pick for the American League Rookie of the Year. Millwood and Matusz effectively push Jeremy Guthrie down to the third spot in the rotation. Guthrie is still overextended, even as a number-three, and the final two spots are still filled by pitchers who probably shouldn’t even be in the majors, but that major league mediocrity is again just thin cover for budding prospects including Chris Tillman–who came over with Jones, Sherrill, and reliever Kam Mickolio in the Erik Bedard deal and got a taste of the majors last year at age 21–Jake Arrieta, a 2007 draft pick out of college who could join Tillman in the big league rotation later this year, and Brandon Erbe, who is making his Triple-A debut this year at age 22.

So the O’s have half a lineup, half a rotation, and following a shoulder injury suffered by fragile free agent closer Mike Gonzalez, not much to speak of in the bullpen, but those component parts remain compelling and potential building blocks of a future contender in Baltimore. Right now the Orioles aren’t a good team, but they’re not as bad as they’ve looked in the early going, and are continually getting better. The Orioles should move into fourth place for the first time since 2007, but they’ll still finish with their 13th-straight losing season, yet there remains reason for optimism in Baltimore.

Baltimore Orioles

2010 Record: 3-16 (.158)
2010 Pythagorean Record: 6-13 (.316)

2009 Record: 64-98 (.395)
2009 Pythagorean Record: 69-93 (.426)

Manager: Dave Trembley
General Manager: Andy MacPhail

Home Ballpark: Oriole Park at Camden Yards

Bill James Park Indexes (2007-2009):
LH Avg-104, LH HR-115
RH Avg-107, RH HR-129

Who’s Replaced Whom:

25-man roster:

1B – Rhyne Hughes (L)
2B – Ty Wigginton (R)
SS – Cesar Izturis (S)
3B – Miguel Tejada (R)
C – Matt Wieters (S)
RF – Nick Markakis (L)
CF – Adam Jones (R)
LF – Lou Montanez (R)
DH – Luke Scott (L)


R – Nolan Reimold (OF)
R – Garrett Atkins (1B/3B)
R – Julio Lugo (IF)
R- Craig Tatum (C)


R – Kevin Millwood
R – Jeremy Guthrie
L – Brian Matusz
R – David Hernandez
R – Jason Berken


R – Jim Johnson
R – Cla Meredith
L – Will Ohman
R – Matt Albers
L – Mark Hendrickson
R – Kam Mickolio
L – Alberto Castillo

15-day DL:

2B – Brian Roberts (strained abdominal muscle)
RHP – Koji Uehara (strained left hamstring)
LHP – Mike Gonzalez (strained left shoulder)

60-day DL:

OF – Felix Pie (surgery to repair ruptured latissimus dorsai)

Typical Lineup:

R – Lou Montanez (LF)
R – Adam Jones (CF)
L – Nick Markakis (RF)
R – Miguel Tejada (3B)
L – Luke Scott (DH)
S – Matt Wieters (C)
R – Ty Wigginton (2B)
L – Rhyne Hughes (1B)
S – Cesar Izturis (SS)

Categories:  Cliff Corcoran  Series Preview

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Show/Hide Comments 1-100
1 Yankster   ~  Apr 27, 2010 6:08 pm

It makes me so very happy to see the Orioles and Angelos doing so much worse than the Nationals. In know it won't last, but if they could end the season close, I'd be happy.

2 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 6:51 pm

I like to think I have a firm command of the obvious.

great opening line cliff.
i agree with your assessment of the o's.

3 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 6:52 pm

No game on TeeVee and I am now officially boycotting Sterling/Waldman. So, I'll be phollowing Phil on Gameday.

4 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 6:56 pm

[3] you don't get the my9 games?
what put you over the edge with suzyn and john?

i feel like i haven't seen a game in forever -the only game i watched on the wc trip was the saturday fox game.

5 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:01 pm

I think this is the year The O's pass the Jays too.

Just not the week.

Sweep them.

6 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:09 pm

Nick Johnson was supposed to be back today.

It begins

7 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:14 pm

Huh. That at bat had "walk" written all over it, and then Teix goes and does something like that.
Can't predict baseball.

8 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:25 pm

[4] Nope. In Canadia I am at the mercy of Rogers Sports Net. When Toronto plays, 90% of the time that is the game that is carried. If Toronto is off, or if the Yankees or Sox play at 10:00 (and the Jays are at 7:00), then sometimes the Yankees are carried regardless of the original feed (My9 or Yes).

What put me over the edge with those two? Nothing in particular...I just began to notice how little I like listening to them call the game. I actually ceased to enjoy the game and spent the entire time complaining about their idiocy. So, I'd rather just follow on gameday + banter.

I really need to spring the $20 for the MLB.tv audio package.

9 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:27 pm

[6] ark my words, read my lips, let me perfectly clear, hear my now and listen to me later:

NJ will have 450 PAs this season.

10 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:27 pm

[9] Mark my words...


11 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:28 pm

[9] I hope so. I just know we've already had our first missed return with him though.

12 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:33 pm

That speedster Posada

13 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:37 pm

I'm shocked that Kay is that naive to think the Prez knows all the minutiae of all the players ....

Hey Michael ... the Prez has a ton of people researching EVERY PUBLIC APPOINTMENT he has .... so of course he's going to appear to be in the know ...

(not that Obama isn't smart, and a baseball fan, but c'mon)

14 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:39 pm

hey everyone.

15 Eirias   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:39 pm

There went the no-hitter.

16 Eirias   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:39 pm

Damn Kay...

17 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:40 pm

I've always thought Luke Scott looked like Damon

18 Eirias   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:41 pm

I can't hear the name "Luke Scott" without associating him with Luke Cage (Power Man). There isn't much of a resemblance.

19 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:43 pm

Luke, I am your pitcher, Luke.

20 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:44 pm

Does anyone else think Rhyne's mom named him Rhyne as an anagram of Henry?

21 51cq24   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:47 pm

i suppose this umpire just doesnt like calling strikes?

22 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:47 pm

[20] only if you were his mom :}

[8] gotcha.

23 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:48 pm

[8] dude, know what I find kind of funny? Sterling and Waldman aren't that bad. Seriously. Tune in some other games.. they can be fucking boring. John n Suzyn might be wacky and confuse you, and even just totally BOTCH calls here and there, but they're never boring.

Grrrr... c'mon Hughesy. Induce a DP.

24 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:48 pm

Evening, Team.
What's up with Phil?
We really don't need this right now.

25 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:49 pm

[21] wally bell is not the greatest. i am actually a bit dismayed i know as many umps as i do.

26 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:49 pm

Where the fuck was that pitch?!? a goddamn strike!

27 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:49 pm

Oh Christ.

28 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm

wow meat tray warming up already

29 seamus   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm

did phil hughes just walk in a run? wtf?

30 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm


31 51cq24   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm

according to gameday, 5 of the last 8 "balls" were strikes

32 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:50 pm

Thank you Phil. Thank you lordy.

33 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:51 pm

good - that is just what hughes needed

34 51cq24   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:52 pm

[31] 5 of 10

35 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:56 pm

Jones must not have seen that ball at all ....

36 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:56 pm

That ball looked playable.

37 jeaner   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:57 pm

Time for Captain RBI

Evening, all

38 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:57 pm

[23] To each his own. I'm a boring guy...I like boring. Wheneer I get the chance, I listen to the away feed over the home feed.

39 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:57 pm

Who's driving?

40 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:57 pm

It was nice while Kay was gone.

41 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:58 pm

[38] fair 'nuff brother.

42 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 7:59 pm

Ball not caught in center, double play not made.
That's how you get to be 3-16, eh?

43 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:00 pm

Let's go, Go-Go Gardner!

44 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:01 pm

These guys suck.
Again, no wonder they're 3-16.

45 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:03 pm


46 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:03 pm

You can only hope to contain him...

47 51cq24   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:03 pm

just so you know, the "strike" to gardner was higher than the high "balls" hughes threw to reimold.

48 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Damn it.

49 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:06 pm

jesus. fucking smoked it.

50 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Oh, Alex.

51 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Come on, Robbie, nice and easy.

52 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:07 pm

[51] But not too easy.

53 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:08 pm

[52] heh heheh heh heh. But not too easy.


54 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:08 pm

too high

55 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:17 pm

Who'd he get together, Michael? The core who?

56 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:18 pm

So what's the Rx for a pitcher who's getting fouled off too much (and therefore using too many pitches)?

57 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:18 pm

So, both starters gone after five?

58 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:19 pm

[56] Good question. Tejada's a good hitter. Always a tough out. No idea what to do with him.

59 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:19 pm

nice snag, Brett!

60 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:21 pm

[58] It means he's pitching better than a guy who gets Tejada to pop out, I figure. A foul is more of a miss than a pop-out. Do you tell Phil to pitch just a tiny bit worse??

61 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:22 pm

on Eutaw Street! or however the f you spell it!

62 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:23 pm

That was nice

63 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:23 pm

Nicely done, Jorgie.

64 OldYanksFan   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:24 pm

Man, that HR had some SERIOUS red ass on it.

65 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:24 pm

Oh, sure. Now.

66 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:24 pm

[60] Interesting...is a foul necessarily more of a miss than a pop out? One could argue that there are 'quality fouls'---line drives that hook just foul, or a fouling a ball straight back with a well timed swing.

67 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:26 pm

[60] Yeah, I was thinking it all depends on what you mean by "miss." A pop out is good timing but less wood, right, whereas a foul can be tonnes of wood but funky timing.

68 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:29 pm

[66] [67] True, could be.
But there are also plenty of "low quality" fouls, too. Fouled straight back, dribbled foul, popped into the seats, and of course tipped.

69 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:31 pm

[68] I wonder how many batters actually willfully foul of pitches, that is, "spoiling" tough pitches with two strikes to extend an AB?

70 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:31 pm

hughes is getting frustrated with this umplord

71 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:32 pm

[69] fwiw, i have heard stories that manny tells other hitters that he willfully fouls off tough pitches with 2 strikes.
i would bet many good hitters at least try to do that.

72 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:34 pm

A few too many 8-, 9- and 10-pitch ABs for Mr. Hughes.

73 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:34 pm

good thing po was backing that up.

74 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:35 pm

[72] On cue, Wiggington obliges.

75 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:35 pm

[69] I think lots of hitters do it. Any ab that gets drawn out is probably an example of that.

76 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:37 pm

I wonder how "safe" it is to foul off pitches. I mean, how easy would it be to hit a weak grounder by mistake?

77 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:38 pm

[75] If so, then in those cases a foul ball is less of miss than a pop out; rather, each foul ball is a victory by the batter in spoiling a pitch he can't handle and forcing the pitcher to keep working.

78 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:39 pm

[77] It's definitely a better result.

I'm very skeptical that good batters can just foul off pitches at will. If they could, then the Yanks could remove the opposing starter in the first inning.

79 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:40 pm

[76] I see it happen sometimes. Damon, e.g., was a master at it but would sometimes put it in play when he clearly didn't mean to.

80 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:40 pm

[76] I guess it only makes sense to try to foul off a pitch when (a) there are two strikes, (b) the batter feels that he can't make a legitimate effort to get a hit, and (c) believes the pitch will be called a strike.

81 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:42 pm

[78] Surely no batter could foul off pitches at will any more than he can get a hit at will. The question is how often (if at all) batters attempt to foul a pitch off on purpose and succeed in doing so.

82 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:43 pm

Jeter has been extremely hacktastic lately.

83 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:44 pm

Our offense seems to have cooled considerably in the past week or so.

84 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:45 pm


I think any high-average hitter (Boggs, Ichiro) is proficient in fouling off pitches seemingly at will

85 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:46 pm

Game thread interruption: Am listening to my favorite morning DJ over coffee this morning, this song is on that's endless and over-the-top..realize it's "Jungleland" by Springsteen. For a second I thought it was "Scenes from an Itlaian Restaurant" by Billy Joe..Bruce has the cred and Billy gets made fun of (by me too!) but really..aren't they kind of the same guy? Un-funky, un-soulful songwrtiers whose lyrics tend toward the bombastic? After "Jungleland" some Wilson Pickett came on, it was like sunshine after the storm..so crisp, soulful and funky..ok, back to baseball!

How's Philthy Phranchise doing?

86 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:49 pm

[85] Give me your address. Clarence Clemons wants to kick your ass.

87 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:49 pm

That was awful.
Terrible wave by Alex.

Come on, team, focus.

88 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:50 pm

[84] Rule 6.05 (d), bunting foul with two strikes is an out, presumes that batters can more or less foul balls off at will when bunting.

89 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:52 pm

[86] Bring it on, big guy! :)

90 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:52 pm

[88] And that I can certainly believe. A good bunter.
But I think if Ichiro could really do it swinging... he would. He would remove the starter before the guy got an out, or they'd have to walk him to prevent him from doing it.

91 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:52 pm

Come out, quick inning here and maybe six for Phil.

92 The Hawk   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:52 pm

I can hardly believe the amount of foul balls we've seen off of Hughes tonight.

Makes for a boring game

93 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:53 pm

[92] But interesting (?) game thread discussion.

94 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:53 pm

[88] It's easier still while bunting, is all. "At will" doesn't mean "every single time without fail," it just means to a very high degree of success, whatever that means. Sometimes guys'll foul off six, seven, eight pitches and then swing right through a nasty pitch in the dirt or a high fastball or whatever.

95 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:55 pm

[90] I think it also depends on location. I'm not sure it's as easy to do if the ball is down the middle, so eventually, Ichiro would get one of those and put it in play.

96 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:55 pm

[94] Wasn't Rod Carew the master of that? Good cricket batters like Sachin Tendulkar can "foul off" balls for up to 4 hours..it's hypnotic and insane to watch..

97 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:57 pm

[96] Yeah, I was thinking of cricket. One of the coaches on my son's little league team is a cricket player and his batsmanship is just crazy. In his hands, the bat becomes almost like a tennis racket.

98 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:57 pm

Phil won't come out for the sixth.
I hope Ace is ready to go.

99 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:57 pm

[97] But a cricket bat is much bigger. The face is huge.

100 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 8:58 pm

[94] No "is all" about it. There would be no need for the rule if the Lords of Baseball did not determine back in the day that a batter could bunt off pitches essentially at will.

And for what it's worth, in the strictest sense "at will" means "whenever you want", not "very high degree of success."

Also for what it's worth, my original query [69] was actually whether hitters sometimes "willfully" fouled off pitches (that is, they try intentionally to foul off a pitch, regardless of the success rate), not whether they did so "at will".

Show/Hide Comments 101-200
101 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:01 pm

[100] Right. And back to my original question...
When they're fouling off dozens of Phil's pitches, even assuming that they're sometimes trying to do it, that means his stuff is better than if there were lots of three-pitch at bat outs. Right?

102 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:01 pm

[99] Plus in cricket there is no "foul" territory and the batter never *has* to run. The balance is tilted greatly in the batter's favor, so it is *relatively* easy for a cricket batter to keep making minor contact (simply protecting the wicket without really trying to score runs) for long stretches of time..."at will" as it were!

103 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:02 pm

[100] I don't know where the "at will" came from.
The answer to 69 is yes, depending on what you mean. Does "fighting off a pitch" equal "willfully fouling it off?"

104 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:02 pm


105 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:02 pm

ATTN Cano: You are slow.

106 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:03 pm

Why are we involved in a ballgame with a 3-16 team in the top of the sixth?

107 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:03 pm

[102] But you miss just ONCE in cricket and that's it, you're out for the day. Brian Lara once scored 501 runs not-out..amazing achievment! Ichiro & Boggs would both have been top cricketers for sure.

108 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:07 pm

[101] I'm not so sure about that. It may be that three-pitch outs indicate his stuff is so deceptive that batters try to hit pitches but fail repeatedly, whereas numerous long ABs with lots of two-strike fouls may indicate that his stuff is not good enough to prevent the batters from spoiling pitches.

[103] Diane gave us 'at will' [84].

Yeah, for the purposes of this discussion I would consider "fighting off a pitch" to be a willful act.

109 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:08 pm

[106] Because some things you just can't predict. Fouling off pitches and baseball are one of them.

110 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:09 pm

Is Phil phinished, or does he come out for the sixth inning?

111 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:09 pm

[108] Good, good. Would you likewise accept an "emergency hack" as a willful act?

112 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:09 pm

[109] :)

113 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:10 pm

[109] Thanks, Pa Sterling :)

Just saw Rob Neyer rate Dusty P higher than our man Robbie..very surprising..am sure it's close but would need to read the stats carefully..doesn't the Fenway boost really elevate Dusty?

114 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:10 pm

[108] Wait, how do three pitch at bats indicate that batters are trying to hit but failing repeatedly? His stuff isn't good enough to prevent the batters from spoiling pitches when they foul it off, the other guy's stuff is so good that he makes them ground out?

115 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:10 pm

Ok, Granderson needs to hit.
Someone needs to hit.
No one's hitting.
Maybe Robbie's still hitting.
Someone needs to hit.

116 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm


God damn you!

117 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm

oh dear jesus - po pulled out one of his favorite tricks

118 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm

Good evening!
[85] This game is so boring that there has been nothing to say...until the Springsteen comment. I have been following BBB since last year, and your taste in music has been spot on, citing both important and obscure jazz albums and artists. But to sum up Springsteen's career based on a bombastic, mid 70's track when he was riding the height of his popularity and feeding the Columbia Records marketing machine is just not fair. His body of work will stand the test of time, and his intentions have always been sincere. You don't have to love him to appreciate that.

119 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm

Jorge Posada is the worst baserunner I've ever seen

120 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:11 pm


I gave us SEEMINGLY at will :=)

121 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:12 pm

[111] What is an emergency hack? I was being a little cagey at [108]. I do think there is a difference between getting fooled by a tough two0strike pitch but managing to make contact, and recognizing a tough pitch and just getting some wood on it to stay alive. Announcers might call both "fighting off" the pitch, but only the second one really conforms to "willfully fouling" the ball to spoil the pitch.

122 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:12 pm

[114] Wait, now I'm confused.

123 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:13 pm

[120] Yes you did, Diane. Yes you did. Take a bow.

124 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:14 pm

Buchholz looked very shaky in the first inning, but has been dealing since then.

125 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:15 pm

tex really has quick reflexes at 1b

126 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:15 pm

[118] Good morning! I was being a little provocative, actually like Bruce's acoustic stuff. The epic songs just don't do it though..he's sincere for sure.
Glad to see another jazz head on the Banter as well!

127 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:15 pm

Well, I'm surprised to see him in the sixth, but pleased.

128 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:16 pm

[121] But the only way you can get fooled by a tough two-strike pitch and still manage to make contact is if you're in "foul-it-off-at-will" mode. In other words, you let it travel a half an inch (or whatever it is) deeper into the zone than you would were you looking to put it in play.

129 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:16 pm

phew .... thanks for that gutty performance phil ...

130 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:17 pm

[114] It *could* theoretically be possible that short ABs result from batters being completely fooled: "I tried to intentionally foul the ball but the movement was so good I missed;" "I thought I had that one squared but I was fooled and grounded out weakly."

But long ABs could, again theoretically, result from a pitcher's stuff being good enough to prevent the batter from getting a hit, but not good enough to fool him, thus allowing the batter to foul off pitches willfully, assuming that batters can do this: "ah, here comes the cutter on the corner...I can't square it but there are two strikes so I'll just foul it off...yep, I was right."

131 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:17 pm

Yeah, Phil was living on borrowed time. Better yank him now.

132 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:19 pm

[130] Got it. Yes, the long ab makes sense.
I think that's exactly right.

133 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:19 pm

[128] I'm not sure I agree. Are you suggesting that a batter who is fooled can never make lesser contact even accidentally?

134 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:20 pm

[130] Sure, could, theoretically.
I'm saying, unless some batters have a very high success rate at willfully fouling off pitches, the long at-bats indicate that they can't hit the pitcher's stuff. They indicate that the hurler is throwing very well, but not quite well enough to "finish".

135 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:21 pm

Does this situation indicate that Boone Logan is the LOOGY, the guy you trust in a tight game, the middle reliever, or the guy on the end of the bench who doesn't have an ordained role so you just put him in because well you know the sixth inning isn't the eighth inning.

136 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:21 pm

I hate having two lefties

137 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:22 pm

Oh, I get it. Lefty specialist. Now we know why Boone is on the roster.

138 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:23 pm

Ahh, he walked Scott, so that must mean that Logan is the LOOGY [135].

139 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:23 pm

[135] He's one of the guys you can count on to come in and walk an arbitrary lefty.

140 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:24 pm

[139] Why don't we christen that player the "MattPat specialist"?

141 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:24 pm

[130] I was thinking that, as well. That can be extending into saying that Phil's pitches are more predictable than he would hope... in other words, they're guessing right on the pitch, but just need to find the location.

Orrrr... maybe the O's are just going up and attacking Phil. More swings = more foul balls. After all, they saw his last start, too.

142 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:24 pm

Two on, one out for Ugly...
Flies out.
Up to JD...

143 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:25 pm

[139] I HATE having two lefties.

144 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:25 pm

[133] Not sure I understand. The only way you can make any contact if you're fooled is to leave something back. That means that from the get-go you're not planning on swinging for maximum power.

"Lesser contact accidentally." I mean, I guess if you're not fooled that badly, if you swing really hard but the pitch turns out to be a cutter so you don't square it up but still manage to make some contact? Is that what you mean?

145 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:26 pm

[144] Yes, that's what I meant. It's a game of inches, after all. ; )

146 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

[134] Yes. I think that's right. What you have is a stalemate, a battle, as it were. The pitcher cannot finish off the batter, nor can the batter put a well-struck ball in play.

147 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

[140] Its still probably preferable to having Phil Coke come in and give up a HR to a lefty, but I don't get the point.

148 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

[142] They pitched around Drew. Ortiz with two outs, bases juiced...

149 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

This inning is lining up to piss me off royally.

150 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:27 pm

fucking christ what was that throw

151 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

What the bloody fuck was that?

152 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

fuck fuck

153 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

grumble grumble

154 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

[147] I like it when Dave comes in and plugs somebody.

155 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

I hate having two lefties.

156 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

[148] PH for Ortiz.

157 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:28 pm

I'm fucking furious.
Wtf was that throw?

And why are we 2-2 against a 3-16 team in the bottom of the sixth.

He fucking fell down.

158 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:29 pm

[157] And why are we 2-2 against a 3-16 team in the bottom of the sixth.

Baseball ≠ able to be predicted.

159 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

Jeez, this game is dulling the Yankee's competitive edge. Hughes pitched ok, but against a real hitting line-up what would the score be now? And the base running has been less than major league. The team is sinking to the occasion.

But...hopefully they'll play just good enough to win.

160 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

[157] Anyone notice that "fell down" is infinitely more funny than just "fell?"

161 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

[158] 最高!

162 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

someone give Kay a bagel and shut him up

163 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

this inning is bullshit

164 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

You have GOT to be kidding me.
We're going to lose to fucking Baltimore?

How humiliating.

165 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

[156] Yup.
And with a righty on the mound. Gulp.
A righty who can't find the strike zone...

166 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:30 pm

Was there any particular reason Hughes couldn't finish this inning?

167 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:31 pm

[160] Hah ah ah ah ah ah a ha ha ha ha h !!!

168 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:31 pm

Amazing. Gregg walks Lowell on four pitches.

169 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:31 pm

[162] a bagel is not sufficient to shut him up

170 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm

The wonders of the internet: without watching or listening to the game, I could still follow in excruciating pain as Cano is caught stealing, Po screws up on the base paths, the LHP walks the lefty, the RF can't make a throw, and now Robertson implodes.

171 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm

[166] agreed. shoulda let him go for the quality start.

172 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm

[164] Unacceptable under any conditions. I don't care that it's April, the Orioles are apallingly bad..we shouel sweep them easily..

173 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:33 pm

fucking hell - pull robertson now if you want to win this game

174 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:33 pm

I hate when Girardi over-manages ...

175 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:33 pm

What a glorious thing it is to lose to a 3-16 team.

176 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

[171] I picture Joe Girardi pacing around the dugout muttering "Gotamakeamove gotamakeamove gotamakeamove"

Its why giving this man a second lefty was a disastrously bad idea.

177 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm


178 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

[172] dude, you make it sound like they're a HS team. They're still a professional team! A sweep is never easy. But we should goddamn win the series easily.

179 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm


and none of us make you think of sterling or kay :-)

180 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

Dave Trembley with a page out of Girardi's book: the trail runner PR.

181 51cq24   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

ok i stopped paying attention for a couple minutes. why the fuck did he take out hughes?

182 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:34 pm

I think pulling Hughes was a reasonable decision.
He'd thrown a lot of pitches, and they were hitting the ball very hard.

183 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:35 pm

Another close game and another possible loss engineered by Joe Girardi. His inability to manage the game is really the only thing holding this team back. Thankfully, they have enough talent to overcome him, but it's a shame that's even necessary.

184 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:35 pm

[178] I don't know, watched them against the Red Sox last weekend, awful D, bullpen guys walked everyone, terrible managing...embarrasing to watch

185 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:37 pm

[180] Remember when he did the trail runner pinch runner with Wilson Betemit, who, among the many reasons he was one of the worst players in baseball, was probably he slowest man on a team that included Giambi and Posada?

186 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:37 pm

[179] I have a special voice in my head for each of you.

187 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm

[184] and we should see our share of the horrible defense. But the team is still made up of pro ball players. The difference is they'll click 1 out of every 4 games, and the Yanks 3 out of every 4. or 4:5 maybe.

188 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm

[182] He pulled him because he got bored and Logan happened to pitch with his left hand.

189 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:39 pm

We're not going to score any more runs tonight, are we?

190 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:39 pm

[186] Oh God

191 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:39 pm

Randy Winn is bad at baseball.

192 ms october   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:40 pm

randy winn is not off to a blazing start in pinstripes or road greys.

193 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:40 pm

[187] Right. We go through this every year, it seems. The Yanks get snaked in an early series by the O's or some similar crappy team, and this site lights up with folks demanding a sweep.

I would, however, be happier if the offense didn't look so totally asleep.

194 RIYank   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:41 pm

[193] Well, Kevin Millwood, come on. No-hit-stuff.

195 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:41 pm

[193] well, I'm with you fellers there.

196 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:42 pm

[193] They're not just crappy, they're 3-16! And we were playing so well until a few days ago.
And Tampa is playing well.
This is an eminently winnable game that we'll end up losing.

197 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:42 pm

The Yankees are going throug a stretch where they really aren't hitting or pitching well, but they could have still won the last three games they've lost if Girardi was infatuated with making needless bullpen moves. This team will hit and it will pitch, but the manager will always be a liability.

198 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:43 pm

all the sudden that fucker wants to call strikes. Grrrrrrr

199 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:43 pm

Oh Jesus

200 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:43 pm

[193] That's my point; it does look totally asleep, no?
That's what's--say it with me now--unacceptable.

Show/Hide Comments 201-300
201 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:45 pm


202 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:45 pm

[197] I feel bad for the guy, (not really) But if Cashman had balls he'd cut Logan after the game. Girardi is always going to make MOVEZ for whatever reason ( I think he has some La Russa in him), but I think he's less likely to make a pitching MOVE in the sixth if he only has one lefty.

203 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:46 pm

[196] They’re not just crappy, they’re 3-16!

Well, yes. But to quote the master [0]: To wit, the Orioles, who at 3-16 are four games worse than the next worst team in baseball less than 20 games into the season, aren’t this bad.

204 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:46 pm

Shut up, Michael.

205 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:47 pm

Wieters is a big boy, huh?

206 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:47 pm

[201] Ah yes...not very much tooptimism around these parts tonight!

[202] Would you cut Logan or Marte?

207 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:48 pm

[202] It's not Cashman's fault that Girardi can't manage the bullpen. There is no reason to pull Hughes with 109 pitches and 2 outs in the inning. It's simply a case of Girardi making a move for its own sake. He did that all last year, and it cost them. Luckily, the team was ridiculously good. They are similarly talented this season, so hopefully it wont make a difference, but when you compare the Rays to the Yankees the biggest edge for Tampa is in the dugout.

208 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:49 pm

[203] Of course not, but fuck that, let them creep back to their level on someone else's watch. We should have the swagger and the intensity to just beat them down *at will!* Especially when they've not exactly played a crisp baseball game.

209 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:50 pm

[207] I'm more forgiving of Girardi than you are. But assuming for sake of argument you are right, how much responsibility does Cashman bear for not Girardi-proofing (à la Torre0proofing) the roster?

210 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:51 pm

[206] Logan. Marte is just better and has some ability against righties

[207] I'm not saying its Cashman's fault. But he has the power to take a sharp object away from Girardi

211 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:52 pm

[203] Plus, we've been losing lately and it would have seemed like leaving California and going to Baltimore would be a gift.

I'm just pissed at this horse shit.

212 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:53 pm

Who is the Orioles closer?

213 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:53 pm

Come on, fucking Teix, please, HIT!

214 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:53 pm

[209] How do you Girardi-proof the roster? Logan and Robertson have a role on this team, but they are never better than a starter who is rolling along. Going to the bullpen is like roulette...if you keep firing, you'll find the bullet. Girardi doesn't seem to grasp the concept.

215 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:53 pm

ball isn't carrying to cf/lf tonight

216 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:54 pm

I think the real reason is that the Yanks had too much Cognac and cigars with the Prez last night.

217 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:55 pm

That was a very outside pitch Alex tried to hook.

218 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:55 pm

[214] Does the team *really* need two lefties?

219 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:56 pm

[214] I guess you would have to do something radical like go with a smaller BP so Girardi has fewer options and thus less temptation. Get rid of all lefties so that he can't be tempted to make BP moves based on situation.

220 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:57 pm

this game has inspired the first f-bombs of the season.

robertson couldn't finish off anybody.

221 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:57 pm

[212] no need to name one so far.

222 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:57 pm

Ok, Jorgie, it's on you!

223 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:57 pm

[218] If it wasn't Logan, it would have been Marte. Girardi will find a way to overmanage.

224 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:58 pm


225 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:58 pm

Btw, speaking of being pissed, what's the deal with NJ?

226 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:59 pm

[223] I don't think so. I think if he only has one lefty he holds off the bullpen turnstile for an inning.

227 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 9:59 pm

[225] Shocking turn of events there.

228 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:00 pm

[219] If you need to be that drastic, it illustrates the point. The better option would be to address the person making the decisions, instead of trying to limit what he can decide.

229 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:01 pm

[225] Who knows. Supposedly he has a stiff back...worse than expected, did not return tonight as expected. I suspect that even if he could play, Girardi is sitting him because he is not hitting, just getting on base.

Another reason why teams should stop carrying that last useless pitcher and go with another offensive player on the bench.

230 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:01 pm

rare E6 there. goddamn

231 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:01 pm

[227] What is it, he has a back ache?
Fucking hell, Derek!

Is NJ available to pinch hit?

232 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:02 pm

[230] I stand corrected. 1B.

233 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:02 pm

Or rather, pinch walk?

234 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:02 pm

[229] I'm going to miss Hideki Matsui. I know it.

235 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:03 pm

[231] He's had a backache that in typical Nick Johnson fashion, has somehow lasted about three days too long.

236 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:04 pm

[228] But I don't think that it's that drastic. I was making, in my own oblique way, a more general critique of contemporary roster construction. Teams carry 12 or 13 pitchers, which only tempts managers to play bullpen roulette. In fact, they become somewhat justified because they need to "keep the arms in the BP fresh."

237 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:04 pm

[232] I stand re-corrected

238 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:05 pm

Trembley is living large: he has gotten to use two PRs, and he may even get to unleash his closer!

239 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:06 pm

[238] I hope the closer comes out in a mask to preserve his identity.

240 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:06 pm


241 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:06 pm

What the hell was Kay talking about?

242 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:08 pm

Start the circus music

243 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:08 pm

is their closer already in the game?

WTF! goddammit to holy shit!

244 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:08 pm

Watching Posada is sad...he simply can not catch anymore.

245 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:08 pm

Why not?
Why should we want to win this game?
We've won twelve already.
What's the hurry to get to thirteen?
And I do kind of feel sorry for Baltimore, sitting on three.
They deserve to win sometimes too.

246 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:09 pm


247 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:09 pm

[244] No, he really can't.

248 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:09 pm
249 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:10 pm

Dear Baltimore,
We hope this run finds you well. We just thought you might be able to use it.

With love,
Derek and Jorgie

250 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:11 pm



251 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:12 pm

This feels like the slow motion montage from the end of Bonnie and Clyde

252 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm

Did they score that an E5?

253 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm


I'm thinking more "Terrance and Phillip" from South Park

254 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm

It really looks like the Yankees weren't prepared to play this game. Maybe they did a little too much celebrating last year and not enough preparing to play a 3-16 team. This game is an embarassment.

255 JeremyM   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:14 pm

This game has been pathetic. Been following it on my phone, and been way too grumpy about it.

256 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:14 pm

How does Girardi possibly explain using the loogy with no men on in the 6th, but not with two men on in the 8th?

257 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:14 pm

Ha-ha...we might just deny their closer his save yet!

258 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:14 pm

All right.
Girardi needs to call a team meeting and get these clowns back on track.
Games like this are not ok.
Jorgie can't get picked off and then go and throw the ball away.
I know he always does these things and we win with him anyway but still.
What kind of shit is this?

259 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:16 pm

[248] I really so love that.

260 Jon DeRosa   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:17 pm

It's better to be 12-7 then where they usually stand after 19 games, but this team had a blazing start in them and they just took the foot off the gas. Down to 2 guys hitting. Down to one guy pitching well in the bullpen.

261 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:21 pm

Simon's shit breaks late as hell. GO SWISH!

262 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:21 pm

Nice hit, Swisher.
Ok, NJ, draw your walk, PLEASE.

263 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:22 pm

[233] That pinch walk is needed now

264 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:22 pm

c'mon Baby Ruth!

265 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:22 pm

How do you take that?

266 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:23 pm

That 1-1 was a break.
That was a strike.

267 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:23 pm

So, if NJ is well enough to PH...

268 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:23 pm

[265] 'Cause he's looking to walk.

269 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:24 pm

[267] Is he well enough to swing?

270 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:24 pm

[267] Don't even go there.
It'll only get us all the more riled up.

271 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

Thank you, NIck.

272 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

He's the Walkin' Man!

273 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

Hey ,,,, lets PR for Johnson :-)

274 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

Ok, Derek. You can do this.
Look to turn on the inside fastball.
He'll challenge you there.
Turn on it like you did on that homerun you hit last week.

275 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm


Argh .... I was KIDDING!!!!!

276 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

[270] Save for it when Gardner comes up (unless DJ grounds into his DP).

277 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:26 pm

The Lineup on MSG is doing the best NY left fielder of all time tonight. Any guesses?

278 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:27 pm

Why on earth would the Yankees pinch hit with Cervelli?

279 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:28 pm

That was an awful AB by Jeter.

280 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:28 pm

If he'd just turned on that first pitch like I asked him to...

281 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:29 pm

[277] Bob Meusel?

282 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:29 pm


Dammit, Gritty, SWING at fat pitches.

283 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:29 pm

Guess this is what happens when you bat someone like Gardner in the #2 slot.

284 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:29 pm

I see no one is going to swing at anything now.

285 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:30 pm


286 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:30 pm

Hmmm ... Gritner has a unique strategy this game ... 'Hit 'em where they're at!"

287 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:30 pm

Run Gardner?

288 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:30 pm

This infield dirt is pathetic ....

289 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:30 pm


290 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:31 pm

Good morning Yankees.

291 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:31 pm

Alex ... it *always* comes down to Alex, doesn't it?

292 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:31 pm

Oh, this is going to be a kick in the balls if A-Rod doesn't tie it here

293 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:31 pm

Thanks for giving them that insurance run last inning, Derek and Jorgie.
(And PLEASE, don't give me the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. I'm not in the mood.)

294 Diane Firstman   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:31 pm

suicide squeeze!!!

295 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:32 pm

[286] Ha ha ha ha ha ah a ahhdeh heheh

296 joe   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:32 pm

Greetings Banterites...
[291] I was going to post the same thing!

297 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:32 pm


298 cult of basebaal   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:33 pm

dammit, I thought that was going through off the bat ...

299 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:33 pm

What an embarrassment.

300 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:33 pm

Shoot me now.
We just gave away a baseball game.
That's the sort of thing championship teams are not supposed to do.

Show/Hide Comments 301-329
301 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:33 pm

Damn it...probably a game no one deserved to win. The Yankees should be extremely ashamed by their performance tonight.

302 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:34 pm

Mistakes in the bottom of the 8th... Maybe a run saved if Winn wasn't in RF... the possibilities are endless.

303 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:34 pm

[301] really, they've played like shit since the Hughes near no hitter.

304 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:35 pm

[302] Maybe a couple runs saved if we didn't have to MAKE A MOVE in the sixth

305 NYYfan22   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:35 pm

Mattpat... was I right?

306 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:35 pm

[301] Very well said. No one deserved to win this game. The fielding alone was a disgrace to the game.

307 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:36 pm

[277] I would agree Muesel or maybe Ricky Henderson. (anything to think about but this game is better).

308 JeremyM   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:37 pm

I usually feel better about them losing if they stage a rally in the 9th like tonight, but eh, not so much.

309 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:40 pm

The first win at home for the O's is against the World Champion New York Yankees Baseball Team.

310 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:41 pm

I am usually a great apologist for him, but Jeter was very, very un-karma-like tonight.

311 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:43 pm

I'm not sure if I hate it more when Girardi makes a bad bullpen move because he over analyzed that damn binder, or for no apparent reason like tonight

312 kenboyer made me cry   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:47 pm

The Yankees need a Baltimore Pit Beef, and then a good night's sleep. Tomorrow will be better.

313 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:47 pm

[311] I agree, sort of. Pulling Hughes at 109 pitches made sense more or less (I would have kept him in, but then I would push all starters to 120 pitches more frequently). Going to a LHP sortakinda made sense given that there was a LH batter up.

But let's assume that Logan is always the wrong move. Whom would you have called on in the sixth?

314 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:55 pm

[313] Why did pullign Hughes make sense? Do you really think 114 pitches would have made much of a difference than the 109 he did throw?

315 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 10:57 pm

[313] I'd really like to think baseball managers have gotten beyond the point where any man with a pulse and a left hand is a good idea against a lefty, so I don't think it made sense at all.

I also think that part of his job is to realize that the bullpen hasn't been particularly good at all, so its a better idea not to pull a guy at 109 pitches in the middle of the sixth and ask the bullpen to get the seven outs before Rivera.

But if he's hellbent on making a move, as he often is, I think Aceves is probably the lesser of all evils.

316 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:04 pm

I think part of the problem is that Girardi has a little too much Tony La Russa in him. He wants to be given credit for the wins, so he keeps making MOVEZ because some of them have to work out, and then he'll have "pushed all the right buttons"

317 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:05 pm

[314] I made it clear that *I* would have left Hughes in. But let's deal in reality: few (no?) managers will leave their young starter, who is on an innings limit in the game, for more than 110 pitches. Could Hughes have gotten the last out in five pitches? Maybe---he was averaging almost exactly 5 P/batter.

In any case, as a thought exercise, assuming that Hughes was going to be pulled anyway (there was general surprise on the game thread that Hughes was still in the game), who is the proper choice?

318 williamnyy23   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:08 pm

[317] Aceves...he is the Yankees second best reliever (at least third for those hardcore Joba believers). There was no reason to bother with Logan and Robertson.

319 Mr. OK Jazz TOKYO   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:08 pm

[317] Also known as the "let's not treat out starters like Yu Darvish, who as thrown over 145 pitches at least a dozen times int he last two years..."

320 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:09 pm

[317] And if I wasn't in a bad enough mood already, you just reminded me that we still have the innings limit circus to look forward to this year

321 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:09 pm

[318] Sure there was--it helped ensure we'd lose to a 3-16 team despite that team's best efforts to improve to 3-17.

322 randym77   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:18 pm

Holy hell. How did this happen? We lost to the worst team in baseball? And gave them their first home win?

I was Scranton tonight. Watching baseball in the snow. Jason Hirsch took a no-hitter into the 8th. Corky Miller ended it with a homer, but the SWB Yanks still won.

And I think I'm frozen solid.

323 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:20 pm

[320] As I predicted earlier this season, there will be no circus, because his innings will be easy to manage as the designated #5 starter.

[319], etc. FWIW: James Shields is leading the league at 110 P/GS. Only 14 pitchers have thrown as many as 114 pitches in a game this season.

Leaving Hughes in after he got the first two outs would have been quite unusual in today's climate. That's why I say, GO NOLAN RYAN!

324 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:24 pm

[320] I have no faith in this organization to not turn it into a circus. Hell, last year when they tried to just skip Joba's starts, they thought it would be prudent to also refuse to tell him when he was starting again. It had to be a SECRET.

They'll screw this up. And pat themselves on the back while doing it.

325 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:33 pm

[324] You of course miss two critical differences:

1. Joba was on a much more restricted limit from the start (something like 25 innings, or 3 or 4 starts).

2. Joba was the #4 starter so it was harder to schedule his skipped starts. The team has already skipped Hughes this season.

326 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:35 pm

[325] You're also assuming we make it to August and September with the whole rotation healthy and Javy Vazquez better than Phil Hughes.

327 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:39 pm

[326] Nope, not at all. It doesn't matter if Javy is better or worse, so long as he takes the ball every five days. And it doesn't matter if there are injuries o the staff or not: that won't result in any more starts for Hughes since he is already in the rotation. The injured player will be replaced by Lucky or some other bottom feeder.

At most Hughes can get 28 starts over the rest of the season, or 31 total---the same number that Joba made last year with a lower innings limit.

31 maximum starts + 170-175 INN limit = no problem.

328 Mattpat11   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

That's an average of less than six innings a start. Are they going to have to start pulling him from starts early at some point?

329 monkeypants   ~  Apr 27, 2010 11:51 pm

[328] Not really, for indeed that is about what he has averaged so far this season. He has now made three starts and thrown 18 INN, or exactly 6 INN/GS. To fit 175 INN in 31 starts means 5.2 INN/GS, or pulling him an inning "early" once every three games. Or skipping one start, which will probably happen at the ASB anyway.

Really, no problem, no circus. That extra 25 INN or so makes all the difference.

OK, I'm off to bed. I'll let you work out the math.

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
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