News of the Day – 3/26/09
Posted on Mar 26, 2009 9:42 am
By Diane Firstman
Today’s news is powered by a “Pitching 101″ video by former Yankee (and current Blue Jay pitching coach) Brad Arnsberg . . .
- Melky Cabrera may yet be traded:
. . . the Yankees have been telling other teams they would be open to moving Cabrera and suggested that he would be a perfect fit for the White Sox, who currently have Jerry Owens, Brian Anderson and DeWayne Wise competing for the center-field job.
The move would open up more at-bats for newly acquired switch-hitter Nick Swisher, who has lost the competition to be the starting right fielder to Xavier Nady. The club had been trying to move either Swisher or Nady, but teams would be more willing to part with young talent to acquire Cabrera, according to FOXSports.com.
[My take: If they do move him, I sure hope they bring back a good catching or SS prospect.]
- ESPN’s Howard Bryant wonders if Mark Teixeira can emulate another high-priced Yankee free agent acquisition from a different era:
Still, it is Jackson who remains the most relevant. In a universe where the Yankees seem to trot out another contender to his throne every December by signing a free agent who thinks he can conquer the big town as Jackson once did, Reggie is still The One, the standard of the big-money outsider who became part of the New York family simply by delivering on the promise.
Fittingly, while Jackson stands in the hallway cooling down, a white towel around his neck, Mark Teixeira strolls past.
Teixeira is the latest to try to climb the baseball equivalent of Mount Everest: playing in New York as the top-dollar free agent and coming through on the other side. Until the past couple of weeks, he had been able to blend in, a $180 million complementary player. But as collateral damage of Alex Rodriguez’s injury, he blends no more. With Rodriguez — and the bizarre, unrelenting dramas that seem to always accompany him — gone at least until near the All-Star break, Teixeira is the power bat in the Yankees’ lineup. He is the one who will have to create the murmurs in the stands at the new Stadium when it is his turn with two on and one out. He is now the one everyone in New York is waiting for.
[My take: I for one didn't think A-Rod would be gone till "near the All-Star break." And, didn't Mike Mussina produce as expected during his years here? Moose might not have "conquered the big town" (nor was he expected to, as someone who suited up only once every five days), but he just went about his business, pitched well for the vast majority of the time, kept his nose clean, and would be considered a good investment in hindsight.]
- Alex Rodriguez . . . unlikable?:
Alex Rodriguez says he has “given up” hoping to be widely liked, accepting that many people he does not know well simply do not care for him personally.
“I’ve given up on that; it’s just the way it is,” the Yankees third basemen told YES’ Michael Kay in an interview recorded earlier this month that debuted last night on the network’s preseason special.
“I mean, look, I feel like right now that not too many people like me, so I’ve given up on that.
“As long as my teammates like me, and they respect me, and my two daughters love their Daddy, I’m going to go out and do the very best I can. Look, I really screwed up, and for that I’m sorry.”
[My take: If only he wouldn't be so concerned with everyone liking him . . . people might actually like him! And, I wouldn't be so sure of his teammates' respecting him.]
- Newsday (and Lonn Trost) give us a video tour of the new Stadium.
Despite the sagging economy, it seems that no expense was spared in the $1.3-billion ballpark. Trost characterized his job as building “the most expensive stadium in the midst of the worst economy.” He did say thinking about ticket sales has caused him “many sleepless nights. No matter what you do, you can’t make everybody happy.”
[My take: You could have made the better seats a little more affordable. So what if you recoup your investment a year or two later than planned. From a P.R. perspective, it would have been a huge win given this horrid economy. Also . . . about those obstructed view bleachers . . .]
- New Stadium Insider points out an interesting segregation of concession availabilities, as delineated in the new Official A-Z Guide to the stadium:
For now, the most glaring change is the following:
Field Level Food Court
The food court located near Section 126 on the Field Level offers guests a taste of New York with a variety of concessions, including Boar’s Head deli sandwiches, Famous Famiglia pizza and Asian cuisine. Please note that only Field Level and Legends ticket holders have access to the Field Level.
We have mentioned before that one of the most enjoyable aspects of going to baseball games is roaming around the stadium and checking out all of the nooks and crannies of the ballpark. Never before have we been to a ballpark that does not let fans explore the concessions on an entire level of the Stadium. . . .
To prevent us from using the facilities or making purchases on an entire level is really creating social stratification in the new Yankee Stadium that we are not comfortable with. This also means that the middle-class family coming to Yankee Stadium to see their heroes suit up in the pinstripes will not be able to watch batting practice from the Field Level or try to procure autographs from their favorite players.
[My take: Remember when we were joking a bit about the Yanks having a "moat" around the $350 seats . . . perhaps this isn't too far from reality.]
- Individual game tickets went on sale Tuesday:
The Yankees put individual game tickets on sale for the first season of their new ballpark and said they had sold 170,000 by midday Tuesday. . . .
According to the Yankees’ Web site, as of early evening tickets remained at $2,625 for the April 16 home opener against Cleveland, each with a $59.70 convenience charge.
[My take: $60 for the mere shipping/handling of a ticket . . . I do hope it arrives in a velvet-lined cherrywood box with Certificate of Authenticity. For $2,625, you can fly round-trip to London . . . four times . . . and the meals are included on the flight. Is Mr. Trost losing any sleep over this?]
- There is finally a deal in place to sell pieces of the old Stadium:
Seats, foul poles, dugouts, urinals and numerous other items from the old Yankee Stadium will be sold to fans as part of a $10 million deal between the Yankees and New York City, the New York Post reported on Wednesday.
Demolition of the old Stadium will begin next month, prior to the scheduled April 16 opening of the new Stadium. Specifics on the sale of items will be available in the coming weeks, sources familiar with the agreement told the Post.
The old Stadium is owned by the city, which will receive a guaranteed $10 million, plus a percentage of any profits above $15.9 million, in exchange for allowing the Yankees to sell the city-owned portions of the ballpark, which includes all 57,000 seats.
[My take: Hmm . . . a Yankee Stadium urinal . . . now there's a conversation piece.]
- Cliff has a post up regarding the passing of two men with ties to the Bombers:
- Super-sub and World Series hero Johnny Blanchard passed away Wednesday at the age of 76.
- Also passing away, at the age of 83, was former Yankee executive Arthur Richman:
Poll time!
Loading ...- Jose Vizcaino turns 41 today. Vizcaino was acquired midway through the 2000 season for the one-time World Series hero Jim Leyritz. Vizcaino went for .276/.319/.333 in 174 ABs with the Bombers, while also getting caught on 7 of 12 stolen base attempts. Fun fact: in 1994, he was caught on 11 of 12 attempts, and for his career he was only successful on 54% of his 136 attempts.
- On this date in 1937, on the advice of Ty Cobb, Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio reduces the weight of his bat from 40 ounces to 36 ounces.
[My take: That's still a lot of lumber to be swingin'.]
- On this date in 1951, in an exhibition game at University of Southern California, Mickey Mantle propels a home run estimated at 654 to 660 feet. The shot clears Bovard Field and then goes the width of a practice football field before landing. Mantle has two homers, a bases loaded triple, and drives in seven runs as the Yankees flunk the Trojans, 15 – 1.
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The moat thing isn’t a joke at all. There’s a concrete wall up between the regular field level seats and the “Legends Suites,” which is what the Yankees are calling the literally cushy seats in the front rows. That said, if the New Stadium Insider guys are right, the “plebes” won’t be allowed on the field level at all, not even during batting practice or to partake of the concessions. If that’s true, I really would love to see an angry mob tear this abomination to the ground.
Today’s lineup and PA’s comment says Girardi is thinking about batting Jeter in the leadoff spot. Based on his increased likelihood for double plays, that’s a great call. They seem close on pitches per plate appearance.
I can’t see Melky bringing back a legit prospect. It’s crazy to realize that the Yankees are starting their third season in a row without a legit CF and that’s five if you think Damon wasn’t that in 2006. Oh, Carlos Beltran…but then they have no problem dropping so much more on a past-peak 3B and 1B and for ten and eight years respectively. I can’t believe Cashman still has a job…or Angel Berroa.
If that’s true, I really would love to see an angry mob tear this abomination to the ground.
I’ll meet you there….in about thirty-five years when they move back across the street.
But I bet you’ll be able to wave to Giuliani!
If I ever go inside the New Yankee Stadium, it won’t be on my penny, period. I don’t care nearly enough about catching a home game at a superfluous stadium to risk eviction from my own home.
Is it really a big deal if that fabled family of four isn’t given the opportunity to pay huge markups of concessions? I mean, shouldn’t they be more interested in buying their Boar’s Head sandwiches at a much lower price outside the stadium (or in their own neighborhood before leaving)? I am sorry, but when I think about “angry mobs”, I don’t envision a passioned fight for deli meats.
[4] Why would you be evicted from your home for attending a Yankee game?
Also, according to PA, they’re opening the gates three hours before. I can’t see the Yanks paying for security to guard the lowest level that whole time. Supposedly, they designed it to restrict access points. So it will be really hard to get to the bottom level, unless you use ninja skills, but if you’re already there it should be easy enough to jump the wall.
[6] The issue is not whether the family of four can buy overpriced concessions. It is, rather, the somewhat disturbing fact that the ever more steeply hierarchized pricing scheme will be reinforced by the physical segregation of fans in different seating (and pricing) zones. The Yankees’ are certainly within their rights to do so, and if the market bears it, yada-yada. Still, it strikes me as off-putting, more in keeping with the Roman Empire (where the upper class had special entrances, exits, and reserved seating at all public performances, separating them from the hoi polloi) than the rather more egalitarian society in which we live.
[5] I believe you’re missing the point. Buying concessions at a ballgame is part of the experience of being at the game, no matter what stadium you go to. I’ll bet it would bother plenty of people that they don’t have the same access to better food when they are NOT allowed to bring in their own food in lieu of access. It’s like waving money in front of a poor person and mocking them for not having it.
That fable family of four was used to saving what money they could to attend a ballgame at a stadium that was world renowned and filled with history, not to mention amenities (good or bad). Now that same family of four is told to pony up a multiple amount of what they used to pay for maybe the same experience in a new place that only evokes the richness of the old one. And if they can’t pony up and continue to pay the same amount, well, you’re not allowed HERE, HERE and HERE (which would have made the experience whole or at least comparable to the old place). But that’s okay, because they deserve it for being not-rich or just plain stingy. I get it, I’m gone.
All the same, I speak for myself in saying that I can resist the temptation of spending money on a luxury such as attending a ballgame there instead of meeting my financial responsibilities; the alternative would be unforgivably stupid for me. Yet, I can’t fault anyone else for making the effort to “join the fun” or for “protesting the absurdities”, whatever your heart’s desire.
I think that no one wants to feel restricted, especially in a place which was historically fun to explore.
As for the cushy seats, one can’t even be wealthy, but uber, uber wealthy to justify that outlay in this current economy. I guess we’ll see a lot of Jack Nicholson and Bruce Springsteen behing homeplate cause those seats will be utilized by VIPs.
I’m still laughing about the urinal as a conversation piece. Good work Diane!
[6] I have a choice: pay a rediculous price (for me) to have a good seat, or put the money toward rent. I’m not blessed yet that I can afford both. For what I can afford, I can get a better seat at home with the YES Network. I know a lot of people in the same position, but I speak for myself.
[5] I am sorry, but when I think about “angry mobs”, I don’t envision a passioned fight for deli meats.
Yeah. but that was before Hank said, “Let them eat Oscar Mayer.”
[11] If that position is really bad for your back, and with your fist in a bowl of potato chips, then yeah, I’m in the same position.
By the way, as a family of four, I would be skewered if I didn’t adhere to the baseball game experience, which includes concessions (much to my chagrin). I think it’s part of the Gestalt of the baseball outing. I expect to go a little uncomfortably beyond my budget as the kids get caught up in the moment. I woulndn’t want to tell them that they can’t have that or that or that because we’re economically segregated. How screwy is that?
As I’ve been saying, my HD tv will have to do or I go to games with friends and forget the family outing all together, so my kids won’t be as lucky as I was. They’ll live, but it makes me sad.
[8] For starters, we don’t know if there will be segregation (bleacher fans were always segregated in the old place, but no one seemed to think it trumpeted the advent of a caste system). Secondly, all forms of businesses segregate customers based on how much you pay. I am not sure why the Yankees actions are being singled out as detrimental to society.
[9] I couldn’t disagree more. I attend a lot of games and have never considered buying food to be an integral part of the experience. Because the Yankees do allow you to bring in your food, your other point is “mute”.
If the fabeled family of four wants to go to a game they still can…there are plenty of upper deck and bleacher seats available at very affordable prices. Now, if that family of four wants to sit in great seats against Boston and enjoy Stadium Boar’s Head, well, they’ll have to pay up for that.
As for an individual, the Stadium experience can easily be had for anywhere from $10-40 per game. Unless you also want to cut out all movies, museums, amusement parks, etc., I don’t see the point.
[14] I guess everyone’s experiences are different. I’ve never had a problem bringing in my own M&Ms, for example, versus buying the $5 bag at the stadium.
[15] This only illustrates our different observations and vantage points on society, William. I respect that and will discontinue this conversation out of respect for our differences.
[13] Potato chips Shomato chips; I’m a gourmet with leftovers! >;)
[15] fans were always segregated in the old place, but no one seemed to think it trumpeted the advent of a caste system.
This was a huge bone of contention for many fans, and something that was specifically to be addressed in the new park. On the one hand, it has–and now the 5000 bleacher fans have greater access to the rest of the park. On the other hand, the remaining 45,000 fans are to be more segregated than they ever were in either version of the old ball park.
If the fabeled family of four wants to go to a game they still can…Now, if that family of four wants to sit in great seats against Boston and enjoy Stadium Boar’s Head, well, they’ll have to pay up for that.
So, you are not even the slightest bit uncomfortable with the possibility that the family of four, along with another 12,000 fans in the upper deck not only will not be able to enjoy Boar’s Head, they will actually be cordoned off from whole swaths of the stadium? Does this mean that during batting practice, the kids in the upper deck will not be allowed, say, to go to the field level to get autographs or catch foul balls?
Again, this goes beyond any of the physical segregation of the old stadium.
So yes, the old stadium, built in the less enlightened 1920s, was designed such as to physically separate the bleachers from the rest of the crowd. The new stadium has managed, in this aspect, to roll back the clock to even less enlightened days!
[15] we don’t know if there will be segregation
This is true. My complaints are of course hypothetical…we won’t know until we see what policies the Yankees actually put in place.
However, according to the yankees.com A-Z new stadium guide:
[19] Ack, I messed up the html tags again!
Use MLB.com over the web. Some restrictions, but I can see lots of games. I will be attending the August 6 game vs Red Sox. I will have been to all three Yankee Stadiums. I’ll probably never return because of cost and how baseball in general has fallen, but I’ll always be a Yankee.
[17] Fair enough…I didn’t realize you hadn’t intended to invite a dialogue with your comment.
[18] Again, no one knows what the stadium’s policy on access to the Field Level will be, so perhaps we should wait to find out before settling on a level of condemnation. What we do know, however, is that similar policies have existed and do exist, so the sensational tone of the NSI seems unwarranted. Similarly, your claims of fans being denied access to “whole swaths” and the clock being rolled back to the 1920’s lack the necessary context to determine whether they are accurate.
It seems as if everything pertaining to the new Stadium has been cloaked in class and political warfare Perhaps that is the result of the turbulent economic times in which we live.
In other news, I’d be all for the Yanks getting something for Melky. AJax is the “CF of the future”, and Gardner is a better 4th OF, so Melky doesn’t have a long term place on the team. Of course AJax could fall flat, etc, but if they could get a high ceiling low level position prospect (I actually don’t think they need more catchers, but do need a SS prospect that might turn into a league average big leaguer) that would be perfection. There’s not a lot of /impact/ position prospects – I’d say Montero is the only one with multiple-All Star upside. Maybe and Engle Beltre of 2 years ago type?
[22] Not in a baseball blog, no, and perhaps that’s my fault for discussing it here. But again, I’m certain we respect each other’s position in regard to what it means baseball-wise, so no need to carry it further :)
[23] I wonder if Melky is the Juan Rivera that I lamented not having anymore… there’s not much doubt that he’ll be nothing more than a serviceable replacement part at best on the Yankees, which may mean something when the inevitable injuries to our older outfielders occur. That is unless you don’t mind replacing him with John Rodriguez on the bench. All we ever hope for is the best out of any player, even if the best for Melky is not good enough to start in our outfield, eh?
[22] perhaps we should wait to find out before settling on a level of condemnation
See [19].
[15] “I couldn’t disagree more. I attend a lot of games and have never considered buying food to be an integral part of the experience. Because the Yankees do allow you to bring in your food, your other point is “mute”.”
You’re joking right? Sure, its all well and good that your are so above all that or are penny pinching enough that you don’t buy food there or consider it part of the game. But, do you really dare think you speak for the rest of fans? Give me a break. Do you have kids, or have you ever gone to a game with kids William? Even bringing in TONS of food to games, its still pretty much impossible to not buy food there. And most fans/visitors to the stadium aren’t so savvy as you and don’t plan so far ahead.
For you food at the game might not be part of the experience, but for most, it is. At pretty much every other sports stadium/arena in the world, you can walk around, buy food where you want, and enjoy a whole world of the sport beyond the action on the field. In fact, its pretty much why people go to the stadium. So try to lay off the high and mighty lecturing, okay?
[22] Perhaps that is the result of the turbulent economic times in which we live.
Perhaps. But I have had the feeling that, because of demand, the Yankees have been treating their customers like shit for several tears, even before these turbulent times. The stadium experience has become for me, at least, increasingly less pleasant since at least the 1990s. I still go because I love going to at least one big league game a year, and I have a long “streak” of attending a game at the stadium. But if I perceive that the bullshit has gone across the street to the new stadium–and if I have to jump through hoops to buy tix like this year–the streak will end next season. I can always watch the Yankees at the Rogers Centre.
A family of 4 can attend the 5/3 & 5/4 games against the Angels and sit in the section furthest away from home plate (by Height and Length) for $22 a pop.
Other that that, they cannot attend a weekend game and sit in the grandstand ($22-$30 level) from now until at least the end of July (I say “at least” since that’s as far as I carried this out).
So the assertion that there are plenty of seats available that are practically usable by a family of 4 is simply not true.
Sorry, that’s the 5/2 & 5/3 games vs the Angels
The suntan lotion, umbrellas, bag check fiascos certainly detract from feeling “welcome” in the Stadium.
[30] Over the past decade, Yankee Stadium has been by far the least welcoming sports venue I have attended. Now, we will see how the new stadium, which the Yankees bill as the most fan friendly in the league, feels.
[25] I think I was composing [22], while you were submitting [19].
[26] Yes…I go to a lot of games with kids, and they want M&Ms…not Yankee Stadium M&M’s. It isn’t a matter of me being “above that” or a “penny pincher”, nor do I think it takes great levels of planning to avoid a lot of unnecessary expenses. Finally, no, I am not speaking for every fan, nor are you or others who think one must buy overpriced food at a ballgame to enjoy the true experience.
If you want me to lay off the “high and might lecturing”, lay off the “whining” about food prices. If you really go to games for the food, well, then you should be willing to pay the prices. After all, if the food is really adding so much to your experience, then it must be worth it. As for me, I go to watch baseball, not eat food, so it’s easy to avoid paying ridiculous markups on subpar food.
[28] Exactly, unless that family are season ticket holders. Because, of course, the total capacity of the stadium was reduced while the number of “premium seats” was increased. Given the already high demand for Yankees tix, this pushed more and more people to obtain season tickets in the grandstand (whether new season ticket holders or older plan holders who chose less expensive seats). Hell, when I logged on on the first day of single game ticket sales, I could not find any games with even two seats available in the grandstand or terrace that fit my relatively open travel schedule. How a family with a few kids will find tix for a single game is a whole other question.
[32] OK. Then you saw the Yankees own stated policy that the field level will be exclusive to field level ticket holders. Now, I’m not sure what that means, but does seem as though little Johnny in the upper deck–and about 30,000 of his fellow attendees– will not only come away from the Stadium without Boar’s Head, he will also come away without an autograph or a BP home run ball.
This, if true, does not even give you a moment’s pause?
[27] That’s fair…but if one doesn’t want the Yankees to maximize their market opportunity, then they shouldn’t also expect them to pay so much in player salaries. I realize there are some who would be more than happy to have a more pedestrian team as long as they could get a great seat at an affordable price. That’s fine. Ultimately, however, I think most fans want the team to go all out to remain competitive. Everyone is free to have their own preference, but if I felt like the Yankees were penny pinching on players because they wanted to keep field level seats more affordable, that is what I regard as being treated like shit.
[28] On Tuesday, I purchased 6 tickets to the May 7 game against TB for $5 each. I had earlier done the same for a June game against the Nationals. If the tickets are all sold out now, I guess that’s too bad, but what could the Yankees do…ask people to not buy the discounted seats in case others wanted to do the same at a later date?
[34] I don’t know what the means either…if it is literally true, the field level will have to be a completely separate level with restricted access. I can’t imagine the logistics required to enforce that. Also, it says nothing about the time…it could be that restricted areas are open before the game. In other words, there are no details, so I don’t see the point in creating a doomsday scenario.
[35] but if one doesn’t want the Yankees to maximize their market opportunity…
The Yankees make staggering amounts of money on TV revenues, and they make money on game attendance and merchandise. They make money now on more luxury boxes and premium seating.
They did not, however, *need* to cut the seating capacity by 10% in a stadium that is 60% larger in order to make payroll. Nor do they need, as it seems, to cut off two-thirds of the stadium from the field level amenities. Nor do they have treat you like shit.
For me this isn’t really about the access to the concessions as much as it is the access to the field level. Whenever I had tickets in the regular seating bowl of the old Stadium, the first thing I would do when I got to the park was go out on the main level and watch batting practice. I caught ball while pressed against the left field wall once on a day that I had nosebleed seats. I have some great close-up photos of players long-tossing and taking infield practice from days when I had seats in the upper deck. To me, walking around the main level and getting as close to the field as possible before finding your seats for the game is part of the experience of being at the ballpark. I do think fans should have access to whatever concessions they want to purchase, but that’s just on principle. Pre-game access to the field level, however, is, to me, essential to the ballpark experience.
[36] It would be very easy to enforce. You enter the great hall and immediately the ticket holders segregate. The field level ticket holders pass security and enter into one concourse, with food courts, etc. The rest are directed to stairs or an escalator to another set of concourses.
In this case, it would very difficult to get people to leave the field level once they enter, so you would probably not be allowed past a certain point at any time the stadium is open.
You’re right in general, I’ll wait and see this season what new policies the Yankees have in store for us.
[37] You say they didn’t “need” to do it, but how do you know? What change in design would have been required for those extra 5,000 seats, and what would that have done to the cost of the project? Already, you have people stating that the obstructed bleacher seats shouldn’t have been included, so I can only imagine the uproar if the lost 5,000 would have had less than optimal sightlines.
If you feel like you are being treated like shit, I can’t convince you otherwise. I would point out, however, that you have come to such a strong conclusion without ever stepping foot in the place. Again, this might be a difference in priority, but I think the Yankees attempts to continually put a top team on the field override the affordability of seating (especially when there remain a lot of affordable seats). In my opinion, Pirates fans get treated like shit every season, and they have great seats available for every game.
[38] On that, I would agree. Having pre-game access to the lower level is a nice part of the experience, especially for kids. Now, I could understand if the $2,000 seats were ropped off, but most of the Field Level should be left open. I don’t really see how the Yankees would benefit in restricting access in such a significant way, so that’s why I’d rather wait and see what really happens come April16.
As for the concessions, I just don’t think it’s an issue (especially because the new ballpark with have tons of new choices all over). Also, simialr things have existed in other places, including at Shea, where there was (or used to be) a lower level concession that could only be accessed by showing a field level ticket.
[40] If you feel like you are being treated like shit, I can’t convince you otherwise. I would point out, however, that you have come to such a strong conclusion without ever stepping foot in the place.
No. I said they have been treating me like shit for years. We will see if the new “fan friendly” stadium alleviates this feeling.
what would that have done to the cost of the project?
I have a hard time believing that the great architectural minds at HOK could not have managed a different design, with more seats, within the staggering budget they Yankees were working with. I imagine that, somehow, a couple of fewer premium restaurants and clubs might–just might–have allowed the larger footprint to be configured differently, allowing for a few more rows of bleachers or upper deck seats. I even hazard to guess that a slightly greater cantilever of the decks could have been engineered..but it’s just a guess.
So, yes, you are correct strictly speaking that I do not know what the Yankees needed to do. But your line of argument here strikes me as a bit of sophistry.
IF access to field level were blocked out, it would be an outrage. I had access to field level at the old stadium. It is tradition for families and kids to show up early and ask autographs from players. It was fun for me to watch up close the players tossing and chatting.
Whenever I had friends from outside the country visit me in NYC, I would take them early to the game so they could take pictures and see the players up close. They appreciated the experience more. The Europeans always thought the players would be small and fat and would be shocked to find big, tall, inshape players. (I kept them from seeing David Wells.)
When I was at San Francisoco Giant’s stadium, one of the cool things to do was to walk around the beautiful ball park and take in the various views. The whole park was accessible. The guards were fan-friendly and would kindly nudge you away after a few pictures were taken.
If the Yankees go out of their way to segregate fans like this, they are shooting themselves in the foot. By making the Stadium experience less pleasant, they are making it easier for fans to find alternative forms of fun.
Too bad baseball has that anti-trust exemption or we could get another baseball team in here and get real competition.
When I saw 40-something comments, before I clicked on “Read More”. I thought there was a lively discussion raging about what the Yanks could possibly get in return for Melky via trade. Whoops!
FWIW, I think the Yanks will get very little if they trade Melky. Everyone knows he’s out of options, and in a few days, Gardner is almost certainly going to be named the starting CF, which reduces his value even more. Add in the high salary ($1.4M), the bad year he had last year, and that whoever trades for him has to put him on the 25-man roster, and I think the Yanks will be lucky to unload him for anything of value.
Having said all this, I now believe that within the next week, the Yanks will announce that Nady has been traded, because that’s how it seems Cashman does things: the opposite of what it told in the traditional press.
As for the New Stadium, sheesh, what a mess.
[42] Sophistry is a nice way of saying a lot not so nice things, so I’ll let that pass. You may not take my positions seriously, but I don’t think they are superficial. I completely stand behind my believe that we should see the Yankees access policies before condemning them, and think it is entirely plausible that 51,000 seats was optimal from a cost standpoint for the features that the Yankees wanted to include. Of course, the Yankees have only averaged 51,000 the last three years (likely augmented by the close of the Stadium), so its not like the Yankees are drastically cutting back from their average attendance levels anyway. It’s easy to state what is and isn’t necessary without knowing the details.
[46] I’ll stand by my sophistry comment inasmuch as I think that the objection “you don’t know for sure” verges on tautology and can be applied in almost any argument, any time. One could push it further and say we never *know* anything for sure…but I find the entire line o argument a bit pointless.
Now, you write…
or the features that the Yankees wanted to include.
Ah! This is a somewhat different statement from your original argument (implied) that the Yankees were limited by building costs. Rather, no you suggest that they were limited by the features they wanted to include–such as center field restaurants, luxury clubs, massive amounts of retail space, the great hall, etc. In so saying, you implicit suggest that the Yankees chose (i.e. did not need) to shave 10% of the seating capacity of the stadium. By this logic, the Yankees could have increased seating capacity (and thus reduces pressure on demand) by opting for a somewhat different set of priorities.
So, in effect, you are now agreeing with me.
[41] [38] On that, I would agree.
And so by agreeing with Cliff at [38], you have again agreed with the main point I made about such potential segregation of the field level: see [8], [18], [19], [34]
[46] “You don’t know for sure” is a very valid response to someone jumping to conclusions. Personally, I prefer to know what a policy is before condemning it. That might be sophistry to you, but it seems like good common sense to me.
As for the Stadium, you seem to be suggesting that the Yankees priority should be maintaining a capacity (or increasing it) that has never been used (on average), rather than building a ballpark that meets the needs and desires of the organization and the fans that will be attending games. I am sure, for example, the Yankees could have used smaller seats in a an effort to squeeze more in, but that would be less than ideal for most. Similarly, the Yankees could have scrapped any number of revenue generators to allow for more seats, but that means they would have to take a revenue hit to do so. Regardless of the tax-free financing they received, the team is still on the hook for 100% of the debt payments, so I know I wouldn’t advise them to scrap things like the sports bar for seats that will go unused most nights. As a Yankee fan, I want the team’s main priority to be spending whatever it takes to maintain a high quality ball club. If that means 4,000 fewer seats, then that’s fine with me. I realize that others have different priorities, and don’t begrudge them that at all. I do, however, think the Yankees decision reflects the priorities of most of their fans.
One more point…in the 1980s, tickets to YS were very affordable. Why then did they rarely average much over 30,000?
[47] I never disagreed with the point that a complete and total segregation of the Field Level would be a bad idea (albeit not a catastrophy with social implications). I just don’t think it is likely that such a policy is in the works, so don’t see a need to condemn the Yankees in advance for it.
I despise the idea of the new stadium and what it stands for. I already hated how bloated the prices were but there was a pretty egalitarian feel to the old place; it was a dump no matter what seats you had. Plus I could remember when it wasn’t so expensive – the new park will never have that association.
I can’t stand any of these new stadiums with their emphasis on “amenities” and Yankee Stadium is the worst offender I’ve heard of … All these ridiculous ideas about clubs and restaurants, it just turns me off completely. I’d rather pay cheaper prices with only hot dogs and peanuts available. The idea of “luxury” and a baseball game don’t mix, for me. Even if tickets weren’t much cheaper it would be worth it just to have a more game-oriented vibe. Baseball is why I like to go to the ballpark, I don’t give a rat’s ass about the extras. Spend the money on more people to keep the place clean, if there’s money to burn.