Chien-Ming Wang has been historically bad. Yankee officials privately feel his arm strength is not good, probably owing to him missing the final three-plus months last year due to a foot injury.
They are going to skip him this time around the rotation and one plan they had was to have him throw a full simulated game, possibly on the off-day Thursday. They want to do that so that literally during the course of the action corrections can be made to his delivery, plus they feel that Wang needs to throw 80-100 pitches after being knocked out so quickly in three straight starts. Joe Girardi would not say how long his leash is with Wang. But I got the feeling talking to a variety of Yankee officials that Wang needs to show significant improvements in his next start or else he could be shifted to being the long man in the pen, and Phil Hughes will be called up to join the rotation.
They could easily use the arm strength issue to DL him and send him to Tampa as a prelude to a number of rehab starts, which is what I would do right now.
That wasn't really anything we haven't discussed here already, but since we're talking about it...
I'm not sure anyone would buy an injury issue at this point, considering how loudly it's been proclaimed that there's nothing physically wrong with him. They could schedule tests, with the hope that there might be even a slight issue that could be used as an excuse to DL him (a hangnail or something?)
It's ironic though that we're trying to find out what's wrong with one of our more successful pitchers when just yesterday we were handcuffed by a guy who spent most of his time on the DL and we all knew what was wrong with him.
But Wang as the long man sort of scares me, only because I keep thinking "Igawa" in the back of my mind; irrational indeed, but Wang's self critiques have not helped completely dispel that notion. .
[2] Dice-K recently left an outing early and stated that he felt fine. The next day, the Red Sox placed him on the DL with a tired shoulder. I don't see why the Yankees couldn't do the same.
What does Wang as a long man have to do with Igawa?
[3] Agree on the injury. Nobody in the world has to 'buy it' -- nobody 'buys' that Dice-K has an injury that justifies his being on the DL.
But I agree with Chyll Will about the Long Man option. Chien-Ming right now cannot pitch two decent (even half-way decent) innings. How can he play the role of Long Man? (Not to mention that it would just invite the world's most awful puns.)
Also: can someone explain why CMW is out of options? Tyler Kepner and other authorities have said that he definitely is, so I believe it, but it would be nice to understand why.
After three years as a pro, a player must be protected on a team's 40-man roster, or he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft (more on that later). Once he's served those three years, and assuming he is added to the 40-man roster, his club then has what are called "options" on him.
When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons.
When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers (more on those below).
I'd make an appointment with the team physician, "officially" call it a "tired arm" citing the 5-7% drop in velocity to appease MLB, send him to Tampa on the 15-day DL (there is a precedent), and have him follow Cone's advice of beginning his ST anew. Cone added he should start throwing everything into the dirt short of the plate (I would add a "batter" standing there swinging at his pitches.), and work his way up, instead of starting out throwing high again, and working his way down, which has been ineffective to date, to say the least.
That's without peer, the best suggestion I've heard with respect to Wang gaining control of his sinker again in a fashion he, as well as the rest of us, are accustomed. In fact, I'd change Cone's job for the time being, and send him down to Tampa too, and allow him to help out with that process!
I mean, a Cy Young and five rings requires at least some pitching acumen, no?
Just telling CMW to throw the ball in the dirt doesn't address the mechanical flaws in his delivery and there's no guarantee that even if he managed to start throwing the ball in the lower half with more frequency that his pitches would regain their effectiveness without addressing the mechanical issues.
Throw the ball in the dirt, for example, doesn't do much to address the drop in velocity that CMW is showing this year.
[11] Actually, throwing the ball in the dirt for a sinkerball pitcher, as opposed to throwing flat sinkers thigh-high or higher, involves being more upright during the delivery, as well being more "on top of the ball" at the release point (taking the mechanical differences seen on that clip into consideration, which I saw on MLB after Wang's last "start"), such that the higher release makes the plane more downwards and the ball sinks into the dirt, not by simply hanging on to the ball longer to bounce it in with the same flawed delivery Wang has exhibited thus far (as I mentioned, start over ST from square one). I would even be so bold as to have him do that because if he "reverts" to throwing higher again, as is his wont to do when fatigued or under pressure, his mistakes will start thigh-high, and remain flat, as opposed to being flat in the hitters' happy zones at the belt or higher. They should over-exaggerate his correction, such that his mistakes are thus (thigh-high at the highest), instead of what he's done to date. It's better to overcorrect into the dirt for a sinkerballer and work up from there (as Cone pointed out), than to begin high, and work down, or hope he "figures that out" during his next start at The Fens...
I would also add that a sinker that's "thigh-high" is still too high and it should start that high, and sink down to below the knees and out of the strike zone deceiving the batter, the way it's supposed used to with Wang's 12" of movement. In addition, that "mistake" is more attuned to what he has done in the past, rather than the crapfests we've all seen from him so far this season.
[11][12] Yeah, thanks cult, that's a great segment. Much greater analysis than the ESPN schtick. Looking at that video, he really does look like a different pitcher. I am not sure he's injured though, it could be a combination of rust and just not trusting various parts yet. Its beginning to look like a Halladay case though, I wonder if his delivery will have to be rebuilt.
Man, of all the things I was worried about going into the season, Wang's reliability wasn't one of them, at least not in this form.
Do any of us really know what we're talking about? Throw it in the dirt, throw it more upright? Are we coming up with stuff the Eiland, and the army of pitching experts the Yankees have at their disposal are not?
This whole discussion seems like a sad, futile waste of breath.
Sherman had this note:
They could easily use the arm strength issue to DL him and send him to Tampa as a prelude to a number of rehab starts, which is what I would do right now.
That wasn't really anything we haven't discussed here already, but since we're talking about it...
I'm not sure anyone would buy an injury issue at this point, considering how loudly it's been proclaimed that there's nothing physically wrong with him. They could schedule tests, with the hope that there might be even a slight issue that could be used as an excuse to DL him (a hangnail or something?)
It's ironic though that we're trying to find out what's wrong with one of our more successful pitchers when just yesterday we were handcuffed by a guy who spent most of his time on the DL and we all knew what was wrong with him.
But Wang as the long man sort of scares me, only because I keep thinking "Igawa" in the back of my mind; irrational indeed, but Wang's self critiques have not helped completely dispel that notion. .
[2] Dice-K recently left an outing early and stated that he felt fine. The next day, the Red Sox placed him on the DL with a tired shoulder. I don't see why the Yankees couldn't do the same.
What does Wang as a long man have to do with Igawa?
Ya know, tendinitis can flare up at any time. . .
Just sayin'.
[3] Agree on the injury. Nobody in the world has to 'buy it' -- nobody 'buys' that Dice-K has an injury that justifies his being on the DL.
But I agree with Chyll Will about the Long Man option. Chien-Ming right now cannot pitch two decent (even half-way decent) innings. How can he play the role of Long Man? (Not to mention that it would just invite the world's most awful puns.)
[2] The Yankees screamed from the rooftops that there was nothing wrong with Hughes last year.
Also: can someone explain why CMW is out of options? Tyler Kepner and other authorities have said that he definitely is, so I believe it, but it would be nice to understand why.
[7] from rob neyer's "transactions primer" (http://assets.espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html):
"Options"
After three years as a pro, a player must be protected on a team's 40-man roster, or he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft (more on that later). Once he's served those three years, and assuming he is added to the 40-man roster, his club then has what are called "options" on him.
When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons.
When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers (more on those below).
[7] Yes, thank you.
[8] And thank you for explaining!
I'd make an appointment with the team physician, "officially" call it a "tired arm" citing the 5-7% drop in velocity to appease MLB, send him to Tampa on the 15-day DL (there is a precedent), and have him follow Cone's advice of beginning his ST anew. Cone added he should start throwing everything into the dirt short of the plate (I would add a "batter" standing there swinging at his pitches.), and work his way up, instead of starting out throwing high again, and working his way down, which has been ineffective to date, to say the least.
That's without peer, the best suggestion I've heard with respect to Wang gaining control of his sinker again in a fashion he, as well as the rest of us, are accustomed. In fact, I'd change Cone's job for the time being, and send him down to Tampa too, and allow him to help out with that process!
I mean, a Cy Young and five rings requires at least some pitching acumen, no?
;)
[10] actually, I'd say that advice isn't particularily useful.
Wang's protestations to the contrary, the difference between his 2008 and 2009 mechanics are striking.
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200904184208179
Just telling CMW to throw the ball in the dirt doesn't address the mechanical flaws in his delivery and there's no guarantee that even if he managed to start throwing the ball in the lower half with more frequency that his pitches would regain their effectiveness without addressing the mechanical issues.
Throw the ball in the dirt, for example, doesn't do much to address the drop in velocity that CMW is showing this year.
Fantastic segment, cult, thanks for that. Man, the MLB Network has really been outstanding thus far, and that's just one example of why.
[11] Actually, throwing the ball in the dirt for a sinkerball pitcher, as opposed to throwing flat sinkers thigh-high or higher, involves being more upright during the delivery, as well being more "on top of the ball" at the release point (taking the mechanical differences seen on that clip into consideration, which I saw on MLB after Wang's last "start"), such that the higher release makes the plane more downwards and the ball sinks into the dirt, not by simply hanging on to the ball longer to bounce it in with the same flawed delivery Wang has exhibited thus far (as I mentioned, start over ST from square one). I would even be so bold as to have him do that because if he "reverts" to throwing higher again, as is his wont to do when fatigued or under pressure, his mistakes will start thigh-high, and remain flat, as opposed to being flat in the hitters' happy zones at the belt or higher. They should over-exaggerate his correction, such that his mistakes are thus (thigh-high at the highest), instead of what he's done to date. It's better to overcorrect into the dirt for a sinkerballer and work up from there (as Cone pointed out), than to begin high, and work down, or hope he "figures that out" during his next start at The Fens...
I would also add that a sinker that's "thigh-high" is still too high and it should start that high, and sink down to below the knees and out of the strike zone deceiving the batter, the way it's supposed used to with Wang's 12" of movement. In addition, that "mistake" is more attuned to what he has done in the past, rather than the crapfests we've all seen from him so far this season.
[11] [12] Yeah, thanks cult, that's a great segment. Much greater analysis than the ESPN schtick. Looking at that video, he really does look like a different pitcher. I am not sure he's injured though, it could be a combination of rust and just not trusting various parts yet. Its beginning to look like a Halladay case though, I wonder if his delivery will have to be rebuilt.
Man, of all the things I was worried about going into the season, Wang's reliability wasn't one of them, at least not in this form.
[13]
'Wang's 12" of movement.'
I'm so sorry.
[15] Hehe... I saw that... after the fact of course...
;)
Do any of us really know what we're talking about? Throw it in the dirt, throw it more upright? Are we coming up with stuff the Eiland, and the army of pitching experts the Yankees have at their disposal are not?
This whole discussion seems like a sad, futile waste of breath.
I'd give Wang one more start.
[17]
This whole discussion seems like a sad, futile waste of breath.
What internet sports discussion isn't?
[17] "This whole discussion seems like a sad, futile waste of breath."
What else are we going to do here during a rainout?
Post about "what a great guy you are?"
LOL