Just keep winning series.

Aceves continued to show that he could be a valuable addition to what is currently a pathetically ineffective bullpen.

Indeed, though his fly balls are scary. Still, that yakker that had Alex Rios ducking for cover before dropping in for a strike was wonderful.

Watch them run off ten straight while the worst defender on the team was replaced with the best defender. Meanwhile, with a .700 OPS he's a net positive over the old and infirm version of a shortstop with a .750 OPS.

I was in Scranton again tonight.

Yesterday, I got to sit downstairs, when those tickets weren't available for walkups at all last year. But it was relatively crowded because it was Wang starting.

Tonight, it was pretty empty. At the box office, they told me, "Pick any section you want. There's plenty of seats." I guess Casey Fossum vs. Jose Contreras just doesn't have the same cachet.

SWB Yankees shut out once again. It's now 44.1 innings without a run scored.

Andy Phillips wreaked havoc tonight. Made at least three defensive plays that left me wondering how the hell he even got there. And was 2 for 4 at the plate.

meanwhile, Boston got URP'd by that slayer of AL East Giants, Mr. Palmer ...

[4] I have been as big a proponent of moving Jeter off SS as anyone on any Yankee blog or board, but Jeter hasn't been the worst defender among the starters on this team on the team this year or in 2008. The last time was in 2007.

[7] "Germans? Pearl Harbor?"

[8] What am I missing?

[9] Forget it, he's rolling...

[10] Drunk, fat and stupid is no way to go through life, son..

[7] Interesting. A-Rod is kind of a surprise.

But I have to say, I don't find defensive stats terribly useful. I gather you need really large sample sizes before they mean anything. And even then, I kind of wonder how meaningful they are. A couple of years ago, one system had Melky Cabrera as one of the best defensive CFers in the league, while another rated him the worst.

I think defense is one area where I might give more weight to those old-timey scouts than to stats.

Mr. Jeter... Zero, point, zero...

[6] Cult, the Giants aren't in the AL. What are you thinking?

[5] That's too bad...sounds like the economy is still struggling on the micro level, which kind of jives with the recent Retail data.

[14] Tokyo, right Jazz?

I happened to catch the inning when Richmond yielded the five runs to Oakland and it was very similar to last night...a sudden barrage of extra base hits in succession (I believe the As rally was all with two outs though). When Swisher didn't get Damon in, I got a little nervous that Richmond would recover like he did last time.

[15] "sounds like the economy is still struggling on the micro level, which kind of jives with the recent Retail data."

As long as there are "deals" like these, "the littles" will continue to struggle.

"Golden Coffins?"

Wow!

Rumor has it that Jeter actually strained his oblique at A-Rod's sleepover toga party.

[17] Contained in the link you provided was the following (an excerpt from Jack Welch's perk package):

"Papers filed in the case disclosed floor-level seats at New York Knicks games"

Something tells me Mr. Welch was not alone in having sports tickets be a part of their perks. I am sure Yankee tickets were (still are?) just as popular, which illustrates exactly why the Yankees thought they could sell $2,500 seats before the economy tanked. In the previous environment, that price level was certainly not as outlandish as it now seems.

[19] Which leads to my conclusion (in addition to Trost's tragic remarks yesterday) that NYS wasn't built "for the fans," but rather "for the haves"...

[20] I won't re-open the debate too much, but by being able to over charge "the haves", the Yankees were able to keep many seats in the bleachers and upper deck below their pre-recession market value. That level of subsidization is a benefit to the "fans". Also, as I have argued in the past, maximizing revenue is also a benefit for the "fans" if that money is constantly poured into the team. I realize a sizeable majority here doesn't agree with that argument, but as "a fan" with an upper deck seat at $25, I think it does serve my best interest, so I guess that's what colors my opinion on this issue.

I could never figure out why people who go to a ballgame feel the need to be segregated from everyone else.

I could never figure out why people who go to a ballgame feel the need to be segregated from everyone else.

It happens everywhere else, why not at a ballgame?

Ah, early morning and a post from Bum Rush that makes me blink ... I'm going to propose we give Rush and Dimelo corners of the bar to go after Alex and Derek (and Cashman), and those of us looking for some action can wander past ...

I was at the game last night, and though I like the bat boy/ss as much as anyone, his D was very shaky and struck out painfully, almost hurting himself (oblique, maybe?). I did like the speed on his double turned triple. But anyone claiming to be baseball savvy and suggesting the kid is more useful than Jeter on the team right now will lose a ton of credibility with me. Why not, if you like him, call him part of that depth we're seeking. Me, I'm not sure.

I do stand by my unfolding prediction: Halladay flattens us, Sabathia wins game 3, game 2 was the swing one and I felt good about Andy.

Couple of wider notes. Only 20,000 or so in the crowd ... odd in Toronto, where there are always tons of Yankee fans for a game, and where they draw much more than that, usually, for NY. Recession numbers? Especially odd with the Jays in first and playing very well. There were 40,000 for Halladay/Burnett the night before.

Another thing that struck me, though this gets complex. The booing for Rodriguez has started to cross some line for me, as far as fandom, culture, getting off on itself, its power. Of course people pay their money, have a right to shout for it, even get vile. But the contrast was fascinating: calm and silent for eight batters (cheers for strikes and outs), but EXPLODING into a steady, loud buzz of malice while he comes to and is at the plate.

No one needs to feel sorry for Alex Rodriuguez, I suppose, but I did leave the game thinking about the impact, the process of living every day, every ballpark (even your own, if you have a bad game) with endless hostility. Yes, Toronto gets on him a bit more because of the 'Hah!' moment (which I loved then, and love now, as an echo of kids playing ... I remember shouting 'Hah!' at my brother in basketball games of Horse or '21') but Toronto is also, on the other hand, a really sedate city and ballpark, compared to some. A nice guy sitting next to us just said, 'He's a star on the other team, of course we boo him.' But no one else was getting ANY booing, and the noise level shift was stunning when Alex came up.

I'm just pondering the daily life, you know. And wondering what'll happen to Manny in 45 games. Bet a buck it isn't this. And Manny's still hiding. Hasn't said a word to the press or fans.

[24] The crowd did seem very small. I read the walk-up for Tuesday was 12,000, so maybe everyone who wanted to go the series did so in that one game? Of course, most of those 12,000 probably went just to boo AJ Burnett. Who knows...maybe Canadians are developing an edge? If so, I think the Captain can set them up with something in burnt orange.

As for Arod, I am passed the point of trying to decipher the pyschology behind fans reaction to him. I just hope the vitriol on the road is met in kind by strong support from the home crowd.

[25] I just hope the vitriol on the road is met in kind by strong support from the home crowd.

I doubt it, alas. Only when he wins games for us, and on a VERY short leash (what have you done for me last two at-bats?). Honestly, I think this has a chance, at least, of destroying a career and a team. It HAS to impact on him, and has to ripple to teammates. I'm using hyperbole now, I admit, but it felt a bit like my image of a Roman Colisseum and someone led out to be devoured. (That's mostly Hollywood, not history, but ...)

It felt eerie.

[24] Mob, herd, sheep mentality I suppose. I find comfort in being anti-social under those circumstances >;)

[12] I think defense is one area where I might give more weight to those old-timey scouts than to stats.

I think it's best to use one to supplement the other.

[24] how loud and prevalent were the "yankees suck" chants?

on the tv feed they seemed like they were fairly common throughout the night, even as the Yankees were building and extending their lead.

normally, i'm the world's greatest defender of free speech, but the increasing proliferation of the "so-and-so sucks" chant at sporting events just gets me all twitchy in a Herbert Lum kinda way.

classless, tasteless, boring and derivative, there's nothing like watching the herd mentality at play
.
another reason to dislike red sox nation ...

I'd really like Sabathia to build off of his last start so we can show the Jays what our number one can do.

[30] Bank it. Ol Hoss is feeling his oats. Er...

[24] Toronto crowds for Yankee games are odd. A LOT of Yankee fans usually show up, driving from Buffalo or Rochester or elsewhere in upstate NY. You see tons of Jeter/Rodriguez/Murcer/Posada shirts in the stands. So the crowd noise can have an element of dueling or conflict. There are ALWAYS cheers from a decent segment when Yanks do something good, and it triggers some added energy in the Toronto fans - which is reasonable, and can even be kind of fun, because it is mostly a civilized ballpark/dome.

'Yankees Suck' chants are everywhere, but actually become kind of background noise after a bit, and didn't feel aggressively taken up. The VERY personal treatment of Rodriguez was even more noticeable as a result.

I'm curious ... are there Banterers who attend elsewhere in the AL? It would be interesting to get a firsthand sense of how this is playing out. On television it is hard to get a read sometimes.

@21

Except what's going to happen now that the prices of those "haves" seats have been cut in half?

Worse, for your argument is what you failed to address yesterday: The Yankees are clearing $100 M/year not counting park concessions and advertising (which they also control). They could afford to charge everyone much less - no subsidizing necessary.

@ 24

Lose one argument, start another, huh? You still haven't answered how one team in the last twenty years wins a championship with position players as old as the 2005-2009 Yankees, but yet age doesn't explain the current woes? Everything else is just tangential noise.

[24] I think you're wrong about Manny. He's gonna get "the business" ... Even if it's true that people don't dislike him as much as they do A Rod, what self-respecting heckler is going to pass up "female fertility drugs" and all that it promises?

@ 21

Or to put it another way: They can afford to spend another $50-100M on salaries. So not only are they not putting it back into the team, as you were claiming, but they're not using it make tickets more affordable either.

That said, I have no problem paying $20/tickets for my plan. But, importantly, I'm having a very hard time re-selling them. The Yankees gouged the market across the board. And their access policies are truly offensive. That's one reason I'll be using Photoshop to sit anywhere I damn well please in that half-empty mallpark.

And I encourage everyone to also use Photoshop, if only to watch BP wherever you want. They scan barcodes at the gates, but they check numbers as you enter sections. Fuck them. Make them buy scanners for every section, except they don't have the guts.

My only question: Do they use scanners to again check tickets for the separate entrance to fat rich land?

If no one knows, I'll probably risk getting tossed to find out.

[24] "But anyone claiming to be baseball savvy and suggesting the kid is more useful than Jeter on the team right now will lose a ton of credibility with me."

With Jeter riding the pine due to a "strained oblique on his right side," the kid played SS for the Captain. I'm certain Pena's experiences playing on fake grass on top of a concrete floor consist of his starts last night and the night before, and the series in Tampa coming off the bench. The last time I checked, there aren't many fake grass fields in AA ball and lower, if any at all.

If you think 80% of Jeter > 100% of Pena "right now," then you sir have zero "baseball savvy" and roughly the same "credibility" (see also Joe Torre)...

Can Jeter play 3B, even @ 100%, not even considering "right now?"

How about 2B under the same parameters?

"Right now" he can't even "play SS," much less "hit."

I'd rather watch Ramiro Pena get major league reps both in the field and at the dish from both sides, hit .280, and the team lose, than watch the Captain schlep his way around on defense, and "hit" .273 in the leadoff slot, and the team still lose. He's doing fine "right now" cheerleading from the bench thanks...

If I were you, I'd examine Pena's offensive splits when he plays SS. You can claim "limited sample" all you want, but his sample also includes a start at SS against Halladay.

In fact I would argue that Matsui getting hurt was the best thing to happen to the Yankees "right now," because it locked in a weary and "playing while injured" Damon @ both DH and the leadoff spot (where he belongs), giving the team a much better defensive OF overall and a leadoff man hitting 50 pernts higher than the Captain "right now." Even the kid, who is a switch hitter, is hitting seven pernts higher than the Captain, "right now!"

"Baseball savvy" and "a ton of credibility" indeed...

I agree about Damon in the lead-off spot. I haven't looked up the numbers, but I'd say he sees more pitches than Jeter, especially in the first AB of the game. If the OBP is comparable, then I think having a natural pitcher irritant like Damon there makes more sense. Can't really argue with Damon's production since he's been hitting #2 but I've never really liked Jeter batting lead-off.

[37] I think it was very clear that [24] was saying if Jeter is physically able to play, he gives the Yankees a better chance to win than Pena. I didn't infer it was arguing that the Yankees should be forcing an injured Jeter to play over Pena.

I don't think anyone could credibly support the notion that the Yankees are better off without a healthy Jeter, but I'd be interested to see how the case would be made.

As for Matsui, the Yankees would be better off if they simply led off Damon in the absence of Jeter instead of needing a Matsui injury to force the issue (which it really didn't do any way).

Finally, I've criticized Girardi's lineups, but really hope he doesn't resort to making miniscule sample size assumptions.

[38] My counter to that would be much of Damon's incredibly hot streak was accrued batting second. Who knows...maybe Damon wouldn't be seeing so many good pitches if Teixeira wasn't backing him up?

[38] I said his production batting second can't be denied. Though he did pretty well last night, too.

Do they use scanners to again check tickets for the separate entrance to fat rich land?

I doubt it. Do the scanners even go into that much detail? Besides, I would think that once a ticket is scanned, it wouldn't be able to be scanned again.

Who knows…maybe Damon wouldn’t be seeing so many good pitches if Teixeira wasn’t backing him up?

I doubt it, especially in consideration of Teix's struggles. Besides, if pitchers were pitching "around" Damon, or otherwise giving him bad pitches to hit, I would hope that he would lay off of them and take a walk.

As for Jeter, I have no problem with him leading off, and had no problem when he did it full time.

[42] I don't think Tex' struggles come into play because pitcher's usually work off reputation and track record, not hot streaks. That is kind of supported by all the walks Teixiera has drawn despite being in a slump.

I am pretty sure Damon would be patient if he was being pitched around, but I like having him a spot where he'll get pitches to hit. Jeter, Damon, Tex, Arod is the proper set-up and I think it will pay dividends sooner than later.

[38] It's clear to me that Jeter isn't "comfortable" leading off, as it has always been with him.

[39] I disagree with your assumption. HCE was basing his conclusion on Pena struggling defensively on the turf as he watched last night's game in person. He got to balls last night Jeter would have merely looked at, specifically the one to his left almost up the middle, while playing right in the middle of 2B and 3B. He actually overran that one, as it hit the heal of his glove. No way Jeter gets to that ball playing in the same spot as Pena, half way between second and third. I counted four lateral steps from Pena in that instance. Jeter cherry picks those types of efforts these days, whenever the muse is upon him, or his "oblique strain" affords such drastic lateral movement.

[33] Bum, you're being deliberately annoying, right? Why? I said yesterday I gave up arguing WITH you not on the point. I said (read it) we were probably beginning to bore the Banter. For the record, I think you were being repetitious, unfocused, and arguing sloppily on a narrow range of team ages - and I excerpted an example. You were also alleging I was being 'binary' and you were (sagaciously) working with a continuum. Not so. I was taking 10 team chunks, and inviting comment. I was actually inviting it from others, sicne by then I'd pretty much given up on getting you to at least ponder.

This doesn't mean 'losing' an argument, it means walking away because of an increasing sense of pointlessness ... and this one was playing out in public.

Your 'lose' comment here firms my resolve: I won't engage with you on anything directly again here. I know too many people for whom the arguing game was about winning, not interacting or sharing thoughts. Discussion (which I greatly prefer) requires both courtesy and a sense the other is engaging and listening, and online it is even trickier. I have had many debates and discussions with people here, have been onside and off-side with the same people on different topics. In a couple of days, you've managed to cross a pretty difficult line to cross, for me.

[39] Thank you William. Yes, of course. The point was measuring a healthy Jeter vs Pena. If the man's hurt sit him till he isn't. (Though Will Carroll, whom I respect a lot more than either of the guys going after Jeter) might dissent. PJ is also pretty selective in how he reads.

Jeter leading off, Damon following was a product of Jeter's higher obp and Damon's fewer dps. Made sense, still does.

[44] Below are Jeter's career splits:

Batting 1st: 313 .387 .466
Batting 2nd: .316 .386 .459

He seems to be equally comfortable in both spots.

HCE can speak for himself, so I'll let him respond. We clearly came away with two different inferences.

[45] It's his MO. I've taken to ignoring every post...even ones that contain insults and outlandishly incorrect claims that are easy to disprove. Each time he acts in such a disrespectful manner, it seems as if more and more people ignore him, so I invite you to do the same. Hopefully, that will convince him to be a more mature contributor or go elsewhere. If not, I am sure Alex will handle it.

In other words, please don't get frustrated and simply ignore, ignore, ignore.

[45] "PJ is also pretty selective in how he reads."

Where I come from, "right now" means "right now." I will happily refer you to [37] again in terms of what I would rather watch these days...

[46] Again, Jeter isn't putting up near those numbers this year or "right now" (.273, .347, .409). Unless of course you are claiming that roughly 20-22% of his total ABs so far this season represents too small of a sample size, assuming he gets 575-625 in '09...

Given the Captain now exhibits a considerable lack of credibility with respect to what is exactly the matter with him physically from day to day, I really don't expect months of .400, .450, .500 out of him any longer, I'm afraid. I would love that kind of production from him to be sure, as would the Yankees! However, "I'm from Missouri," these days with respect to Jeter's offensive potential from a productivity standpernt. Meanwhile, is defense is beginning to more closely rival Bobby Abreu during his Yankees tenure, than the "jump throwing" and "stadium kissing" Jeter of seasons past.

[48] Yes, I am saying that 20% of one season's PAs don't come close to trumping what we've learned over a 15 year career. Besides, your argument seems more appropriate for whether he should bat 1st or 7th, not 1st or 2nd.

Finally, in Sept/Oct of 2008, Jeter's line was 342 /438/.474, so he isn't that far removed from a month like the one you suggested.

[49] I would bat him in the bottom third of the order, until he can prove he can hit major league pitching at a .300 clip again or he cannot any longer (see also not placing anyone in the three or four holes while hitting under the Mendoza Line).

I would also pernt out to you his consistent declines from his stellar year in '06, to '07, to '08 are more indicative of what to expect from him as opposed to referencing his total career numbers. He has not exceeded his career numbers across the board since '06.

No telling for how long he's actually been too hurt to play this season.

I've been advocating him getting some days off many 0fers ago... even before A-Rod returned. If they were still losing with Jeter and Pena, what's the difference losing with Pena and Berroa, while resting Jeter?

Why resting Jeter, of course! Hell, he might have not suffered an oblique strain such that he has to be out "right now."

: )

I would like to make one more pernt for consideration, and not an argument, in the form of this question...

It is entirely possible that most all of these injuries suffered by the veterans are not only the result of them being untruthful to Girardi, but also due to cherry picking when to "bust their ass" and when not to. Haven't we always heard that it's much easier to suffer an injury holding back than it is while playing as hard as you can all the time?

"I'm just askin'..." - B-52's Dance This Mess Around

: )

@ 45

Yeah, 32 years old or older is a "narrow" range. How's this for repetitive: One team in 20 years has won a championship with three position players that old. One team. That one team? The 2001 Diamondbacks who had two guys named Johnson and Schilling supporting the rest of the geezers. And even then they beat another old team (see below).

The Yankees? Every team of theirs since has had three or more position players 32 years old or older:

2009 - 5 (A-Rod, Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Jorge and Ransom and Molina too!)
2008 - 7 (A-Rod, Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Jorge, Giambi, Abreu)
2007 - 7 (Mikny, Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Jorge, Giambi, Abreu)
2006 - 8 (Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Jorge, Giambi, Abreu, Bernie, Sheffield)
2005 - 6 (Jorge, Giambi, Bernie, Sheffield, Tino, Womack)
2004 - 7 (Jorge, Giambi, Bernie, Sheffield, Sierra, Lofton, Clark)
2003 - 4 (Giambi, Bernie, Mondesi, Ventura)
2002 - 2 (Bernie, Ventura)
2001 - 6 (Tino, Brosius, Knoblauch, Bernie, O'Neill, Justice)

2002 was obviously the wasted opportunity. Instead, you can clearly see who they signed rather than developing from within, signing international talent, or making trades. How'd that work out again?

The odds have been heavily stacked against the Yankees for at least six years. And as we've seen there's nothing fluky when old teams get old. It's been happening steadily that whole time.