"A New York Treasure" --Village Voice


It is warm but raining in New York.


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1 Just Fair   ~  Oct 24, 2009 12:30 pm

Awesome. I used to love this song when I was a kid. I had it on a mixed tape I swiped from one of my sisters. I had no idea what it meant of course, but it sounded like a good time. Today sucks. It reminds of those yearly trips I used to take to the Amusement Park when I was younger. The week leading up to the visit, I'd spend so much time worrying about the weather. Damn.

2 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 12:37 pm

[1] I guess amusement parks are like drugs to kids, that and candy.

3 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 12:53 pm

Cracks Emerge in Ramps at New Yankee Stadium

(Yanks deny this is due to ramp's use of Hgh) :-)

4 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 1:06 pm

Will the Yanks be The Rain King(s)?

5 weeping for brunnhilde   ~  Oct 24, 2009 1:08 pm

I still can't believe Swisher popped up that meatball.

6 Just Fair   ~  Oct 24, 2009 1:15 pm

[4,5] Makes me shiver in my bones. : (


7 rbj   ~  Oct 24, 2009 1:46 pm

[3] A NY area construction co. with ties to the mob? What's next, Vladimir Putin not a believer in democracy?

8 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 1:51 pm


I think its Torre's revenge! :-)

9 thelarmis   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:14 pm

dylan used the word "rain" to mean pot a lot. of course, i didn't know this as a kid either. and, hell, i've never even been stoned before but i sure do love dylan!

the dead took to it also, hence "box of rain"...pass it along...etc. etc.

'rain' didn't *always* mean that, but it was a code word for them.

i just hope the Yanks play tonight...and - WIN !!!

10 Yankee Mama   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:27 pm

[9] I never knew that about rain references. I love Dylan too. The Dead aint half bad either.

I'm oddly calm about the game tonight. (if they even play tonight) Is it denial?

11 Just Fair   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:35 pm

[9] That's news to me, too. Any info. on the #12 and 35 in the title?
Dylan is one of my favorites. : D

12 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:42 pm


Not Mike Mussina and Cody Ransom, I would presume.


13 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:48 pm

Dylan and the Dead are most certainly not among my favorites, and I think they belong in the Hall of Grossly Overrated.

That said, I am very confident about the game tonight.

14 51cq24   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:55 pm

[13] i almost always agree with anything you say about baseball, and almost never agree with anything you say about anything else. this is particularly egregious.

15 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:56 pm

[9] Hm, but "Box of Rain" isn't about marijuana in any way, so I'm not so sure you're right on that one.
[11] 12 X 35 = 420, which, for reasons I've never understood, is a number commonly associated with pot. E.g. see


16 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:57 pm

[13] Pity, Dylan's just fantastic.

Or *was* just fantastic.

I saw him last week and it's like watching Willie Mays stumble around the outfield for the Mets.

No matter, he'd still go on my Mount Rushmore of American musicians, along with Miles, Jimi and Elvis.

17 51cq24   ~  Oct 24, 2009 2:59 pm

[16] his newest album (together through life) is awesome, as are his last 4 or 5 (especially modern times and time out of mind). not quite highway 61 or blonde on blonde, but really good stuff.

i won't be here for the game tonight, going to my friend's. i hope they play, and know they'll win if they do. let's go yankees!

18 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:01 pm


"Time out of Mind" was nearly a perfect album, save for that last, rambling, incessantly long "song".

19 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:03 pm

Tweet from NYP's Joel Sherman:
It is 5 hours to first pitch and McClelland just called someone out at third and Girardi responded by going to the pen

20 51cq24   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:04 pm

[18] true, highlands is a boring song. and it's not the only long, boring song he's ever written (joey on desire is the worst).

21 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:05 pm

[17] Yeah, Time Out Mind is one of my favorites and I like all of them quite a bit, but the live experience was extremely disappointing.

Everything was played up tempo (in that sense, he can still rock) and everything felt rushed; he's still got an interesting voice, dark and weary, but there was no space for it to resonate in the arrangements he chose.

22 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:06 pm

[20] heh, Desire is such a great album, but I think I've never actually listened to Joey all the way through. Not even the 1st time I put the album on.

Now I just skip it.

23 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:07 pm

[21] Oh, yeah and he was nearly incomprehensible, even on stuff I know the lyrics for by heart.

24 51cq24   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:09 pm

[22] and the song he took off the album in order to include joey, abandoned love, is one of my favorites (it's only on biograph i think).

25 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:11 pm

Hey .... let's get Dylan to sing the anthem or GBA at a WS game! :-)

26 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:12 pm

[16] You must really like "All along the watchtower"!

(I was desperately trying to think of an Elvis song that Miles covered, but no luck.)

27 BuckFoston   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:16 pm

[15] 420 is the police code for possession of pot and other minor narcotics in Cali (maybe elsewhere as well,but not sure about that).

28 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:19 pm

[13] Ha you were confident about Game 5 too. Ease back a bit, please - for the sake of everyone!

29 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:20 pm

[26] Hendrix would occasionally soundcheck "Blue Suede Shoes", so you go that way, if you'd like.


30 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:22 pm

[27] Urban myth, I'm afraid.

Myth: Police dispatch code for smoking pot is 420.
Fact: The number 420 is not police radio code for anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes suggest that the origin is neither Californian nor federal. For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a misdemeanor the hindrance of use of public lands.

31 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:24 pm

Ugh, the only thing worse than waiting all day for a game to begin, is waiting all day to find out whether there's going to be a game at all!

32 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:30 pm

[29] For that matter, he recorded it on Midnight Lightning.
But that still leaves us with a Miles connection missing, to tie together your Rushmore guys.

33 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:35 pm

I guess Scioscia took some hits for removing Lackey, but I didn't think the move was so bad. He looked genuinely rattled after losing Posada - I think he walked Jeter on four pitches. He got Damon out and maybe that should have been encouraging, but maybe Scioscia still didn't like what he was seeing. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

34 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:37 pm

Latest tweet from Joel Sherman
MLB in discussions with #Angels, #Yankees whether to call game now b4 gates open or to go for it. Decision due within hr

35 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:37 pm

[32] Well, Jimi did "schtupp" Miles' wife ...

36 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:44 pm
37 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:45 pm

[9] People have all kinds of theories about what Dylan means by "Rain," lots of people suggest heroin. Only Dylan knows for sure, and frankly, I think the drugs angle is overblown. Robert Hunter's lyric for Box of Rain is decidedly not about drugs. The box of rain is the earth and the song was written for Phil Lesh to sing to his father who was dying. "Such a long, long time to be gone and a short time to be there."

FWIW, I like Joey and Highlands. Joey I won't defend (it's a dopey outlaw ballad), but I'd say Highlands is true to the very core of Dylan's art.

Jimi did a killer version of Drifter's Escape, but it's hard to find.

38 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:45 pm

[13] i almost always agree with anything you say about baseball, and almost never agree with anything you say about anything else. this is particularly egregious.


Fair enough. From my perspective, Dylan can't sing and is not a musical virtuoso. He writes some amazing lyrics, or at least he used to. He is the product of a time and place, in my opinion. But I admit he has had a huge impact.

The Dead...well, about them I agree largely with this review (http://tinyurl.com/5tlydt):

Yeah, millions of loyal fans followed these guys around for three decades. Yeah, the Dead lasted longer and sold more records than any other 60s West Coast hippy rock band. And yeah, this is the band led by Jerry Fuckin' Garcia - I've got to admit that he was an outstanding guitarist and versatile to boot. But they're a drag; none of the original members could sing worth a damn, they've got nothing to say lyrically, the only musical innovation they can lay claim to is Mickey Hart's internationalized drum noises, and their sprawling live jams are an affront to rock 'n' roll.

But as they say...de gustibus non disputandum est!

39 cult of basebaal   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:48 pm
40 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:50 pm

[14] There's no point in trying to convert someone who doesn't "get" Dylan. It's like trying to convince someone to like ice cream. If they don't like it, they don't like it...more for us, I guess.

I happen to think he's the most important post-war American artist in any medium, but, hey, that's me.

Also, yes, Rainy Day Women is obviously about drugs (although people seem to miss the double entendre, after Bob had been figuratively "stoned" by the folk crowd for going electric) I just meant I don't buy that every "rain" reference is to smack or other drugs.

41 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:52 pm

[39] Right on! Good find! I had it on some weird import vinyl.

42 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:55 pm

In a similar vein, I've been listening to CCR all afternoon, and people either love them or hate them.

43 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 3:59 pm

[38] But that in no way shows that the Dead are 'overrated', since I think pretty much all fans admit that they weren't exactly great singers, and in fact I don't even claim that Jerry Garcia was much of a guitarist. They weren't musical geniuses. They were minstrels.

44 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:03 pm

I love CCR, I love Dylan, I dislike with general disinterest the Grateful Dead and I HATE the Counting Crows, god help me for even mentioning them in the same breath as those other artistes.

Speaking of Dylan, this is awesome ... the bile; the brilliance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZvP7T3B30

45 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:05 pm

[43] I would differ about Garcia's ability. On a good night he was a transcendent guitarist and damned versatile (he was such a folkie at heart).

The Grateful Dead were a whole that was greater than the sum of its parts. On a bad night, they could be dreadful. On a great night, they could take you to outer space and back on nothing stronger than Coca-Cola.

It wasn't for everyone.

46 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:05 pm

[43] I guess. The fact that armies of people who come out to hear minstrels who can't really sing all that well, aren't particularly good musicians, and play not particularly imaginative songs is in my mind the very definition of overrated!

Maybe I'm just negatively influenced by my brother who is a huge fan of the Dead. When I ask him why, it invariably boils down to sitting in a field or in a stadium smoking a lot of pot.

As pointed out in [40] I guess I just don't get it.

47 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:10 pm

[46] invariably boils down to sitting in a field or in a stadium smoking a lot of pot.

Is that wrong? ;)

(I personally preferred indoor concerts.)

48 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:10 pm

[46] I totally get goofing on the hordes who went to those shows - there were a lot of tagalongs and phonies and folks just there to get loaded, amongst those of us who knew better....but the songwriting? Hey, if Bob Dylan and Elvis Costello and Graham Parker and Warren Zevon cover your tunes... oh wait, forgot, you don't like Bob. Annnnyway.... Looks Like Rain ;)

49 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:12 pm

I was just talking to someone about CCR, in particular, how prescient "Fortunate Son" was with regard to GWB.

50 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:15 pm

I was never a Dead Head, but part of being young is to immerse yourself in the experience of cultural (or perhaps counter cultural) phenomenon, and seeing The Dead in concert certainly was that.

51 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:18 pm

The usual lineup tonight.

52 Diane Firstman   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:18 pm

I saw The Dead at MSG many moons ago (my best friend's husband is a huge fan ... I like SOME of their stuff).

It got a bit trippy, but not that bad.

53 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:20 pm

[51] It worked for Joseph Campbell: http://tinyurl.com/yjv5juf

54 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:21 pm

[52] I saw then at AU. They played for like five hours.

55 Rich   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:26 pm

Girardi said he was told that there is a chance that the rain could push through and that there is a chance they can play.

56 williamnyy23   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:51 pm

I'd almost rather this game be canceled in the hope that it will dissipate some of the bad karma that I can’t help but feel is associated with it. The wait to this game kind of feels an inmate on death row awaiting a reprieve from the governor! Then again, if they play and win, it would put an end to all the people talking about how Girardi blew the last game, which instead of making me feel a little more sane, has only added to the irritation over Thursday’s loss. I have to admit that I’ve been very surprised by the near universal criticism of Girardi…he could be approaching Grady Little territory over this series.

57 thelarmis   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:58 pm

real quick...

dylan is amazing. best lyricist ever.

i never said "rain" ALWAYS means pot. sometimes it does, i think. my pop is pretty much a veritable encyclopedia on dylan and mentioned this to me years ago. that's all i was saying.

i'm NOT a Dead fan. at all. i used to hate them. for a minute, i liked some of their stuff. at this point, they don't really register on my radar, either way.

Desire and Time Out Of Mind are both amazing. Street Legal doesn't get enough credit. it's absolutely unreal. Infidels, is his best 80's work. Love & Theft, after time out of mind, is also really great.

i saw him on that tour and understand what Cult was saying. bob played keyboards the entire night. may have been a Fender Rhodes. he never sat down and looked like a question mark leaning over to "sing" into the mic. he sounded like a death metal singer on valium. it was brutal. he didn't acknowledge the crowd for 75 minutes! that's hard to do!!! but his song list was excellent and the lead guitarist was terrific.

ooh, i hope they play tonight and the Yanks WIN !!!


i'll miss the entire thing...

58 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 4:59 pm

[56] The biggest I want the game played to day is to set up CC for three games in the WS.

59 williamnyy23   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:04 pm

[58] The World Series seems so far away, that I can't even think that far. Girardi's managing has almost raised the stakes of the ALCS. Not only am I rooting for the Yankees to advance to the World Series, but also for the sanity of not having to deal with the gnawing feeling of knowing Girardi played a major role in the team not making it (after a season of having that be my biggest fear).

60 ms october   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:07 pm

[56] william - relax - governor devlin will grant the reprieve

[58] yes - and that is big like cc big

the last hour or so has seen no rain, light rain, and heavy rain - very hard to say what they will do, but i am assuming the yanks are pushing to get the game in

61 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:09 pm

[59] It is far away...but that fact will not change whether they play tonight or not. Nor will the fact change that Girardi is the manager, nor that he has made dubious decisions that may have contributed to losses in games 3 and 5.

But if they get the game in and win tonight, CC pitches three games in the WS. Thus, rain, rain go away...

62 williamnyy23   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:17 pm

[61] It's like going to the dentist...when I am in the waiting room, I always breath a sigh of relief when they call in another patient. I still know that my turn will come eventually, but then again, maybe the world will end first? That's how I feel about this game...putting it off wont change the fact that it has to be played...or why it has to be played...but who knows, maybe the Angels will just forfeit?

The only other time I have felt this way was before game 7 of the 2004 ALCS. In that series, I was still confident in game 6 because I figured the Red Sox would still find a way to blow it. On the day of game 7, however, I had a pit in my stomach from the morning. Then, when I wound up getting a flat tire on the highway, I knew the series was over. I avoided the highway today just in case.

63 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:33 pm

[62] I guess if you're always pessimistic, you can't be disappointed and will occasionally be pleasantly surprised.

The Yankees will win tonight. And CC will be able to pitch three games in the WS, which they won't need because the Yanks will win in 6 games.

64 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:37 pm

I too am nervous about this game. I'm concerned about Pettitte. I don't know if waiting till tomorrow will help, because then it will be even more pressure. Tonight dies feel ominous though. I got the fear!

65 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:38 pm

[57] I wouldn't place it too high in his canon, but Street Legal *is* an underrated album. As much as I like Infidels, I'd say Oh Mercy is his best 80s album.

Everything from Freewheelin' through John Wesley Harding is just beyond belief.

66 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:38 pm

[63] Remember when you said they'd win the ALCS in five? Your predictive powers took a hit there!

67 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:41 pm

Game happens - major delays - Yankees win - celebrate in rain at 1:30 AM.

68 williamnyy23   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:45 pm

[63] Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. No amount of pessism mitigates the disappointment. I wish I was just trying to cushion the blow, but my "baseball" instincts are sounding an alarm. Hopefully, it's a false one.

69 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:52 pm

You know, it is harder to tease william when he so obviously (and eloquently) is dying out there. We are all tight this afternoon but I am not going to let myself go insane about Girardi. I think it is partly the usual Yankeeland 'blame someone quick!' schtick. I do not subscribe to 'they won 103 games in spite of the manager'. I'm also amazed that people are still on Swisher so heavily for not getting a 2 out hit. I mean really, haven't we all been FOLLOWING this sport for awhile?

I'd have been much happier if Joe had gone bullpen to start the 7th. Absolutely. Do I think it was a brain-dead hanging kill-the-season error to let his starter at 80 pitches continue, maybe even go 7+ or 8 to Mo, sparing a suddenly more iffy bullpen? No, I do not. Was pinchrunning for A Rod weird? I think so, very much. Did it end up mattering? No, so I continue to not care a whole lot.

The pen is a worry for me, and might have been for Joe. Phil and Joba would not be the first 22/23 year olds to show the pressure of playoff baseball.

[67] The issue with major delays is we lose Andy if it lasts an hour. That puts it on Aceves, probably.

70 Horace Clarke Era   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:55 pm


The Yankees bullpen was supposed to be a strength in the postseason but it hasn’t felt that way lately. Phil Hughes has allowed three earned runs, nine hits and has a WHIP of 2.36 in 4 2/3 innings during the playoffs while Joba Chamberlain has a 3.38 ERA and has seen opponents hit. 500 off him over 2 2/3 innings.

71 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:59 pm

[66] I blame Girardi!!

72 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 5:59 pm

[48] Ah, you might be talking about "Deadicated"?

I'm particularly fond of the Zevon and Costello covers. Also Los Lobos and Lyle Lovett. And Dwight Yokum. It's an inspired album. It also illustrates pretty handily that the Dead did not perform their best songs as musically as a good band could have.

But the reason all those people went to all those shows wasn't the music, exactly; it was the whole experience. The music was at the center, of course.

73 williamnyy23   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:01 pm

[69] I wish I was just being dramatic, but the past 24 hours has been rough. Aside from the game 5 loss in the 1995 ALDS and the game 6 loss in the 2004 ALCS (game 7 felt like a forgone conclusion by that point), Thursday was the roughest loss I can remember as a Yankee fan. In fact, it might be the most unnecessary loss too (close competition with the game loss in 2004 and the Weaver game).

One of the unfortunate thing about being the Yankee guy in your office, family and among your friends is you have to face the music after tough losses. I was surprised by how many people placed the blame on Girardi, without prompting from me mind you (it’s not worth getting into it with more casual fans). The other prevalent goat has been Swisher. In my mind/heart, I have no ill feelings toward him. I can accept that failure is a part of a game.

74 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:05 pm

[73] Game 7 in 2004 was a forgone conclusion, because the Yankees had fired all of their bullets by the end of game 6, and they had Torre at the helm, who was (I contend) far worse by that point than Girardi (whom I have generally praised, with major exceptions).

This is so different this year because the I more or less trust Pettitte...and the big man still lurks for game 7 if necessary.

Inevitable victory? Of course not. But I like their chances.

75 ms october   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:09 pm

game postponed to sunday at 8pm

76 monkeypants   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:10 pm

[75] Oh well.

77 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:11 pm

[72] Costello had performed those songs in concert prior to that tribute album. Los Lobos still play the hell out of Bertha. But I disagree with your main thesis. Listen to a bootleg of a good show from say '70-'74 and tell me that wasn't a musically adept band. Might not be your cup of tea, but ....

Anyway, back to baseball!

78 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:11 pm

Or not...game called.

79 rbj   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:13 pm

[75] Probably for the best. I'd hate for Andy to go 2 innings, then have the game postponed and have CC pitch game 6. Just win tomorrow, guys.

80 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:33 pm

[77] No, no, it was my cup of tea (so to speak). I also listened to Europe '72 about a million times in high school, so my addiction went well beyond the concert experience.

That's right, I'd heard Costello's "Ship of Fools" before Deadicated. He played it on the "Aging Gracefully" tour, which I didn't get to see but someone gave me a bootleg.

81 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:33 pm

So, who is going to pitch Game Six for us?

82 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:34 pm

If they'd played during the day everything would have been fine.

83 RIYank   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:38 pm

[82] Who, the Grateful Dead?

New thread up, Hawk.

84 The Hawk   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:40 pm


85 rbj   ~  Oct 24, 2009 6:40 pm

[81] Andy.

86 thelarmis   ~  Oct 24, 2009 7:11 pm

[65] i would absolutely put Street Legal waaaay high up there!

i agree on Oh Mercy being awesome. i have it in my car right now! : )

i also agree w/ Freewheelin' thru JWH. i also love New Morning.

i hope we advance to the WS. sucks CC won't be able to make 3 starts, if that's the case.

at least i'll be able to watch Game 6.

87 matt b   ~  Oct 24, 2009 7:16 pm

[86] Oh, not saying the good stuff is relegated only to '62-'67, just saying WOW - what a run!
I love New Morning. I'm also partial to Planet Waves. (Everyone cites Blood on the Tracks and Desire, understandably so.)
I dunno about Street Legal - there's something a little over-written about some of it...but this is a fan nit-picking.

[80] Europe '72 is fine, but I mean, y'know, give me a June '74 Eyes of the World>China Doll.

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"This ain't football. We do this every day."
--Earl Weaver